*how about a poke instead of a bump?*

 I am going to talk to the public health nurse when she visits to see Baby next. She recommended that we get flu shots though because he is so young and was a preemie. 

that's my dilemma too --- being pregnant and having a 2 and 5 year old i am seriously considering it.

i do have reservations though.  it seems as though it has been rushed through which scares me a little.  is it completely safe?

i have a doctor's appointment on thursday.  i guess i'll be discussing it with him then.

 I am a bit leery of the H1N1 myself for the reason that they cooked it up awful fast.

Because I work in a hospital, I do get a flu vaccine every year - so probably H1N1 will be rolled into that this year too.  Haven't heard much about this round of flu shots at work yet.

It's something each person needs to decide for themselves - so kudos to you both for giving it serious thought & collecting more info. 

thanks carolla. does that mean it will be mandatory for you, or do they offer you a choice?

i do have a tendency of being a tad paranoid from time to time, but i don't like the idea of over vaccinating.  vaccines make me really nervous, although i am fully aware of the good they have done.  maybe i've read to many conspiracy theories *lol*

As soon as it is available for 'secondary' personnel. I connect with far too many elders (and folks in hospital) to not get the full zot.

Christ's peace - r

They are really advising pregnant women to get it.  Right at the front of the line.  The H1N1 flu seems to strike pregnant women very hard.  I would have a very serious discussion with doc for sure.

As to the rush.

Each year flu vaccines are created more or less during September for the upcoming season.  In many ways this isn't really any different.  They are creating it and testing it for efficacy but all flu vaccines are being developed in the fall ( at least in our hemisphere).  I think we have a real advantage because they have already seem how it moves through Australia, they are just finishing their flu season.

i will get it once they decide to offer it to 50 +s with no outstanding health concerns.

My son has asthma and he will get it as soon as it is available.

Trish, I woudl discuss your options with your new baby with the pediatrician ( the neonatologist if you can.  I have not heard what the protocol will be for premies.) for sure keep breast feeding if you can and I woudl plan on keeping him out of crowds this winter. 

I don't usually get a flu shot, I just am not that exposed and am so bloody healthy but I will do it this year.

am i just being paranoid?

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&safe=active&client=pub-04050211589329...

i was especially interested in the article about contracting the swine flu could actually be good for you, when and if a second/third, more aggresive strain should hit.

i heard a report that those who have already had the first wave and those who were exposed to the spanish flu already have a great amount of immunity.

Vaccines also provide some immunity against related strains and are a lot safer.

So far does this flu seem to be more dangerous than any other flu? I suppose if it mutates it may be, but then will the vaccine be effective anyway?

I have to get it because the NWT gov is giving it out at all schools and i'm attending some classes so it's mandatory.

As-salaamu alaikum, ramadan mubarak.

-Omni

omni, can you actually be forced to take it?

Yes I'll get it.  My doc made a plan with me re: my asthma and H1N1 and the shot is part of it.

I'm not worried about the newness of the vaccination.  Like Lastpointe said they are made in the fall based on available information.  I get the flu shot each year and don't see this additional shot any differently in terms of safety.  But respect that some people don't respond well to the regular flu shot and might have concerns about the extra one for H1N1 - or have special circumstances.

TL

I am like Richard.  It is inappropriate for me not to get the shot, not to protect me but the people with whom I work.

Waterfall,

you asked if this flu is more dangerous.

Ordinary Influenza kills many people annually.  They are mainly the elderly and the chronically ill who have limited defenses.  Elderly can be quite protected by flu shots and most residences insist on it for the safety of everyone.

This flu will continue to kill.  People will always succumb to the disease.

What is odd and worrisome in this case is that unlike normal flu this is killing young people and pregnant women.  That is not the case with ordinary flu.

I don't think at this point they really understand why that is.

Logically there could be cases where an entire university or office could all become ill.

I think we are casual about the flu, I know i am usually.  It just seems like something you get and get over.  Is this different?  There certainly seems to be concern that it is different.

Even with native american blood, I am not interested in being injected with a vaccine probably developed by the same people who developed H1N1 to begin with.

and the conspiracy theories start to arise again....

Oh, the conspiracy theorists are just going bonkers.  I expect the New World Order to stop by and drag us off to concentration camps any minute now.  ;-)

I've had "probable" swine flu - I was very sick with something matching its description in June.  My doctor's office told me not to come in as they weren't testing everyone by that point, and to just stay home.

Is it worse than other flus?  It's certainly the worst one I've ever had.  The body aches and headache were horrific.  I have a fairly high pain tolerance and at one point I was nearly in tears.  Because I run my own business, it's very rare for me to not work at least part of the day even if I'm sick, but I was totally out of commission for four days. 

The vaccine is based on other flu vaccines and it's a very tried and tested technology.  There is no reason to believe that this shot is going to be any more dangerous than the typical flu shot they give to seniors every year.  I'll be having my kids vaccinated, and I'll see if my doc thinks I should bother.  I'd like my hubby to have the shot, too.

 I don't usually get a flu shot but I'll likely I'll get this if it's available. It's not that I'm worried about dying or anything it's just that with this particular strain the chances of actually being layed out by it are greater then most regular flu seasons. The risk is just higher this year and I can't afford to get really sick if it can be avoided.    It's considered a pandemic not because it's killing large numbers of people but because of the larger then normal amounts of people are coming down with it and more people that normally avoid the flu seem to be getting this one.  

 With that said, though I usually am pretty good and practicing good hygeine to generally avoid any nasty illnesses that are always around this year I'm much more conscious of it.  I even have masks if necessary though I have masks in the house anyways. I use them quite regularly when doing building work and cleaning out the chicken coop. :D 

hi momsfruitcake - you asked if vaccination would be mandatory for health care providers & others who work in hospitals.  

A number of years ago flu vaccination was positionned as manditory and there was signficant protest - so annual flu shots are 'strongly recommended' - but no, as far as I know, one cannot be forced to have a vaccination against one's wishes.  If there is a local severe outbreak however, I suppose the hospital might be able to restrict access to those who could indicate having had the vaccine - just speculative.  But we did restrict public access during SARS.

AFAIK Generally in Ontario hospital (or longterm care facility) policy is that if you refuse to get the flu shot (or are medically unable to) you can take antivirals or take an unpaid leave during a flu outbreak.  That is for staff.

Generally during a flu outbreak in the hospital (or long term care facility) visiting is simply not allowed except for extreme/special cases.  If it is just in the community folk are strongly urged to keep visiting down and not come if showing any symptoms.

I am a bit leery of the H1N1 myself for the reason that they cooked it up awful fast.

What do you mean how did they cook it ?

You can always do a raindance if it works for ya

It's been around for 6 months (the swine flu) and they've been working on a vac ever since

plus there are other flu vacs available from before

Even with native american blood, I am not interested in being injected with a vaccine probably developed by the same people who developed H1N1 to begin with.

Are you serious ?

i do have a tendency of being a tad paranoid from time to time, but i don't like the idea of over vaccinating.  vaccines make me really nervous, although i am fully aware of the good they have done.  maybe i've read to many conspiracy theories *lol*

Yes I'm sure that's why the last pandemic had 50 million deaths from people who had the same "knowledge" about getting a shot or taking precautions or just being plain "duh" sadly there is no shot for that ... you have kids and kids spread germs so maybe it would be a good idea for kids and people with em to get shots for sure ...

Also if more people would wash their hands and cover their mouths .....

Greetings!

At this point, I wouldn't get the flu vaccination.  I'm a bit leery and would need more information.  I will try and keep myself as healthy as possible, cover my mouth and nose, and wash my hands a lot.

Hope, peace, joy, love ...

I don't think that I will get the vaccination.  I not in a high risk group and I'm not exposed to high risk groups. 

I have every intention of getting the shot when it becomes available. I think there is quite a lot of false information on this from the paranoid and yet, there is inadequate information from the makers (the pharmaceutical corps). However, given that I do have other illnesses, I would rather have the shot than not since I think the evidence is stronger in support. As well, I have had previous flu shots, without incident and without the flu those winters.

I am also taking lots of Vitamin D - see this article on the possible link between the two (click on bolded type).

I'm not talking about numbers just the attitude of people at the time who probably shrugged off taking precautions or going to the doctor not everything can be googled times change like pandemics the black plague was the same sort of thinking people never considered mice to be the culprits they might have thought the dust from a passing comet made them ill.

Children have a natural immunity for about 6 months after that it is prudent to take precautions other than rosehips ..... holistic meds jeeze how do intelligent people believe in such quackery ?

Do you realize if your kids contracted something virulet and infected other children that is about as reckless as dropping a vial of germs in the subway ? Is it fair to risk the community for the sake of one's beliefs ?

You can research till the cows come home but you are not a medical professional who can discern symptoms and make life saving diagnosis .... leave that to someone who is qualified .... anybody can do research what you can't do is explain the difference between similar symptoms across a range of illnesses when is  a fever just a fever for example or something life threatening or something that just needs some cold meds.

Science over superstition ... it can save lives

Does anyone know if they are going to do single doses or mulit-dose vials for kids?  My only reason for not getting my kids flu vaccinated in the past has been due to this.  They got rid of multi dose flu shots for adults, and in any of the usual childhood vaccines, but kept them for kid's flu shots.  (Multi are cheaper, but also contain mercury).  I have yet to understand why we use vaccines with mercury in them for kids, but not for adults to save money, which is only in the thousands of dollars, not millions.  Mercury is not safe for anyone, and yet we give it to our children???  Health Canada even recommends limiting how much tuna you feed kids due to possible mercury contamination, yet keep completely unnecessary mercury in vaccines for, what I can only see as, saving a few bucks.

Momsfruitcake, you won't find any info about vaccine rates vs survival rates with the ''Spanish Flu" because there were no vaccines for flu at the time. The first vaccines for flu started appearing in limited form in the forties.  They didn't even get a handle on what Influenza actually is until the thirties.

You might be able to find something about those sort of stats if you look up  the more recent major flu pandemics (though not as severe at the Spanish one) of Asian Flu of the 50's or Hong Kong Flu of the 60's.

I just found out that the President of Colombia is recovering from swine-flu.  That's pretty serious.  Not that his life matters more than that of anyone else, but you'd expect there to be quite a few mechanisms in place to protect him from the pandemic, and yet he still got sick. 

Mercury is not safe for anyone, and yet we give it to our children??? 

It's also used in cosmetics but so far no one has stopped wearing makeup

As I understand it, mercury-based vaccines are not used on children in Canada. However, I don't have time to check that at this moment. For regular vaccinations on children, mercury-based serum is not used but it could be different for flu vaccines, including H1N1. If I have time later today, I'll follow up on this.

Everyone shouild be proactive when it comes to 'health' care. There...I've said it.

Everyone should be suspicious when it comes to 'medical' care. There...I've said it.

And one should strive to learn the difference.

-----

Anyone ever ask about who financially benefits from annual anti-virus parades and how many lives are actually saved from the brink of death by these drugs? An does anyone remember why the Canadian Blood Services changed its name? Was it because of openness and organizational and operational transparency?? Hmm???

When the vaccinations find their way out of the human world...well, for example:   I see that mice and rats have been developing immunities to a particular blood-thiner |(i.e. the active ingredient in many rodent...ah..'reduction'  diets) Is this because it's being mixed with human sewage (eventually, of course) and then  flushed down the toilets of those using it for various medical care?

Let's see what interesting developments occur when the 'new' antivirals find their way into the eco-world of the non-human chain from our myopic attempts at immortality.

Part of the references to these health stories personally  reverberated with me - the asthma part... I found that my own childhood/young adult asthma started to clear up big time when I got the nerve supply to my lungs freed up with chiropractic adjustments of my upper vertebrae in concert with freeing my spirit from my mother's all-controlling (i.e. 'smothering=asthma symptom) attitude toward me.I heartily recommend you consider these two responses to your asthma. (Of course it won't be part of your medical doctor's plan to help you balance the effects of the drug coctail. Honestly... good luck with that)

Motheroffive.  Canada uses Fluviral^®, Influvac™, and Vaxigrip^® to vaccinate for the flu.  Fluviral contains thimerosal.  Influvac does not.  Vaxigrip single doses do not, but the multidoses do.  Thimerosal contains mercury.  Influvac does not come in multidose.  Children in Canada are given the multidose versions.  Therefore, children's flu vaccines do contain mercury.  How much it is, I can't remember, and don't recall where I first read about it.  I just got this much off of Public Health Agency of Canada's website.

Yes, I've just verified that for myself at http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vs-sv/vs-faq21-eng.php.

Therefore, my son will not be receiving the regular flu or H1N1 vaccine. However, he is receiving 2000 IU of Vitamin D3, which, according to the folks at the Vitamin D Council, may very well help protect him from both.

What in that link would cause you to risk a child getting the flu? 

I personally do not want to expose my child to mercury, regardless of the "small amount" that is claimed the vaccines contain. Mercury has not been proven to be safe in any amounts and, as I understand it, young bodies and minds are more susceptible to heavy metal and other kinds of contamination.

As well, my son is not in the "under 5s", a group that's considered to be in one of the primary "at risk" groups for H1N1, nor does he have any other health issues. Given that this flu at this point does not have the morbidity/mortality rates that were initially feared, to me, the risks in his exposure to mercury to the vaccine appear greater than the risks associated with H1N1. However, I remain open to changing my mind on that, as events unfold. At this point, regularly seasonal flu is more of a risk to him than H1N1 and he has never received the flu vaccine or been in an "at risk" group.

I am also concerned about the issues of side-effects of the vaccine. I was listening to a piece from the CBC program "The Current" last night. Did you know that Glaxo (the manufacturer) gets all of the profits from selling the vaccine to the Canadian government but, it appears as though they are assuming no liability. In other words, if someone was to suffer from vaccine-related illness (such as Guillaume-Barre syndrome, a known risk in previous flu vaccines), all indications are that this pharmaceutical  will not be held responsible. Check out the podcast at "The Current" website -- you can find it here: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/podcast.html

Everything has side effects ....... even the herbal crud people insist on taking funny how no one ever seems to worry about that instead people are angry at the big bad pharma companies ...

The herbal market is now a billion dollar industry .... you just make another corporation rich .... by trading one drug for another .....

Asthma can be a temporary condition in childhood and may have nothing to do with mothers ....

Education before ignorance

Mo5, your child is going to get more mercury from a tuna sandwich than from a flu shot.  The levels of mercury, even in vaccines containing thimeresol, has been reduced to trace levels. 

Most of the mercury in vaccines hoopla was raised by anti-vaccination activists who decided that mercury, even trace amounts, in childhood vaccine caused autism.  They removed thimerosol from children's vaccines in 2000 (or 2001) in response, and have undertaken several studies of autism incidence in the vaccinated and unvaccinated.  There was no difference.

Here's some information about Guillain Barre Syndrome, it's occurrence and relationship to the flu shot - it should be noted that the H1N1 flu shot is pretty much the same as the one that seniors and others get every year.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/gbs_qa.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/

The other point I'd like to make is that the better "herd immunity" we have, the fewer vulnerable people will contract this disease and either be hospitalized or die.  So if you don't vaccinate and your kids get the flu and pass it on, maybe to that nice pregnant lady at the cash register at the corner store or that sweet little baby from down the street, these people are at risk, and your selfish and misinformed decision put them at greater risk.  Nobody lives in isolation.

This isn't new, btw.  It's the same principle as measles vaccination.  You eradicate a disease by vaccinating as much of the population as you can, thereby reducing not just the vaccinated's chances of contracting the disease, but those who can't be vaccinated's chances of contracting it through contact with others.  Here's a blog post that outlines how refuseniks take advantage of herd immunity and what risks too many refuseniks create:

http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/06/vaccine_refuseniks_are_free-ri.php

We all ate tuna sandwiches for years when we were kids ...... anybody die from mercury yet ?

Seriously I'm starting to think our generation were the real survivors

No, I won't be getting the vaccine even though I'm in a high risk group.  I'm still recovering after getting a flu vaccine last october.  My fiance will get it as soon as he can and I'm just going to rely on handwashing, handsanitizer (even with lotion, I find that the sanitizer is a little gentler than constantly washing my hands) and avoiding the university crowds as much as possible.

Oh, and Vitamin D - there is some speculation that vitamin d may help in relation to H1N1, but there is no evidence to date that vitamin d has much effect on flu viruses.  You need to remember that the Vitamin D Council is in the business of getting more VitD sold, and that no study has been undertaken by an independent researcher at this point.

Regarding the Vitamin D Council and the pushing of Vitamin D, I'd say it's unlikely to be their primary agenda since Vitamin D is cheap and not patentable (from what I understand) so it's not so prone to making huge amounts of money from it. You're right about the lack of independent study on the flu (which, to be absolutely conclusive, would have to be done on each and every strain) but I would also point out that the pharmaceuticals promoting vaccines as the answer make a great deal more.

The material I"ve been reading from the Vitamin D council describes the efforts they are making to have these kinds of studies done, such as a most recent one on the study of the role of Vitamin D insufficiency in those with autism. This work would seem to me to be widely beneficial, as these questions are important. Given that, if the theories around it are true and people were able to reduce their incidence of cancers and MS (just for a start), that would surely threaten sources of income to big Pharma aside from improving life for many.

Again, I'm not a person that endorses each and every scheme on the "natural" side but this approach (with various proper studies upcoming) is different than eating vile tasting herbs, etc. We could have a whole other conversation on that. I also don't eschew modern medicine but do recognize that there are conflicts of interest on all sides of these conversations. So each of us is left to be as educated as we can on these issues and make the best decisions we can.

Regarding my son and seasonal flu vaccines or H1N1, when they are recommended for everyone in the population, I will give that some thought. At this point, I'm not aware that it is the case.

My Grandson ( 14 months) had tests yesterday for allegies. Milk and eggs being predominate. The Doctor( who was also a pediatrition) advised not to get the H1N1 shot because he didn't know what that would do to his all ergies. in wait mode.

Mo5, the Vitamin D Council is funded by people who make and sell vitamin d tablets.  There is some fiduciary gain involved. 

If they are making untested claims, then there's a possible problem with integrity.  I haven't got time to look up the main players today, but I'll do some snooping.  On the intertoobs you can't take anything at face value, and the alt health business is raking in billions.

I'm not sure this is necessarily true, but it's not off by much. A quick google reveals that flu shots with thimerosal have 25 micrograms of mercury. Mercury in tuna seems to be quite variable, averaging at around 350 ppb. At that concentration, 70g of tuna will have 25 micrograms of mercury.

The caveat to this is that thimerosal produces ethyl mercury, not methyl mercury. Ethyl mercury is probably less harmful (it's excreted faster), but it has not been studied as much.

And, while all that could be true, my child doesn't eat tuna, so it's not relevant.