You're in my prayers. That sounds "thin" I'm sure. Try to remember if you can that is is the WHOLE of our lives that becomes who we really are — neither the extreme highs, nor the extreme lows. Holding that together can make you stronger.

Mists - it seems to me that those are all natural feelings and you have every right to feel and express them.

I am so glad Rachel is coming home. The conversation you are going to have with her is going to rank as one of the toughest ones you will ever have. I pray that you will find the right words to tell her in a way that she will understand. Know that I will be thinking of you both.

Mists, there are some wonderful books for children about understanding death.  Take a trip to the library and ask for some.  Call your minister, he/she may have a few in their library.

avoid using words that mean other things.

Death is not sleep etc.

It is important that she not worry that next time she is ill that she is dying too.

Crying is normal.  This is stressful.

Sadly many familes have interpersonal issues related to dyinjg loved ones.  We always hope that death will bring out the best in ourseloves and others but that isn't the case.

I know you are beat and stressed.  Your mother in law is adding to the issues and in ways so is Jim by avoiding coming home.

 Rachel will be the catalyst to change.

there is now a very good reason for Jim to come home.  His daughter only has limited time left and she should take priority over everyone, even you.

She needs all the time she can get with him.  On the couch, seeing him ill and seeing him well.

laughing, hearing his stories when she can, sharing her stories, taking pictures and everything that can be done to have her remember her daddy.

Jim , when he can, should make videos or write her letters for when she is older and Jim too needs to be around the bundle of joy and energy that comes from a young child.

MistsOfSpring . . . I hope somehow, someway, you desire and are able to reach out to someone nearby to talk to, to share your worries, your fears, your anger, your sadness and pain - someone who will be able to guide you and help you through this most difficult time.  I am especially concerned about your last statement of "needing this to stop".  While this is only a mere guess on my part . . . "this" isn't probably going to stop soon . . . my prayer is that you will be able to find the support, help, strength, and persons who will help you to be able to walk each step of the way.  While all of us at Wondercafe care for you and what is happening, and can be a sounding board, and a place to find encouragement, it sounds like your situation is more than overwhelming for you and you might need support in a more tangible way.  May peace find its way into your heart  .

Mists I'm so sorry you're having a really really bad day. I'm keeping you all close in my thoughts and prayers.

Whatever I might say is going to be a repetition  of what others have said so perhaps you may feel a little bit better if you read it for yourself on your  past threads. I read your : " I can't do this anymore" thread  beginning on Jan.29. 

It really has been a long haul for you .  You're walking on through.  Its natural and normal that your emotions are running high.  A better day will come and you do know the old cliche : "This too will pass".... because all things are passing. Life is full of changes.

God is with you. Its always darkest just before the dawn.

Edit: I hope I don't offend you by telling you to read your older threads. Its just that sometimes (depending on how we are feeling emotionally)  we may find something fresh or new in a second reading. I wish you strength and love for the journey.

Yes Mists of Spring and spirit of autumn,

It is a tough raod you are walking.

It will be tough to tell Rachel, but this will be one of many conversations you will have with her on this topic.

I wonder if this is a discussion you and Jim should have with her together? You will know that amser.

Treasure the family time for the 3 of you. Ensure a way to get enough of that.

I pray daily for the 3 of you.

No, I understand what you're saying...and you're right that some days are better than others.  Some days I'm ok.  Some days I even think I'm ok enough that I'm not going to have those bad days anymore, at least not until or unless we have more bad news.  Today (I guess really yesterday now) was one of those awful screaming, crying, hurting, angry, sad, scared days.  I seem to have 3 kinds of days lately and that's one of them.  The others are almost normal and crushed.  On the almost normal days I go through my life, I have conversations with people that are about other things...politics, weather, movies...regular stuff.  On the crushed days, I'm slow and monotonous, just feeling overwhelmed by everything and feeling too exhausted and beaten to do anything, including crying.  Then I have days like this one when I could pull my own hair out by the roots and it would feel like a relief instead of a pain, and when I want to smash windows and break things.  Of course, I don't do those things.  I kind of wish I could, just once in a while.  I know people who get angry or upset enough that they break all kinds of things and throw stuff across the room, but I'm far too controlled for that, which is sometimes annoying.  At my most aggressive I rip up paper...unimportant paper that won't be missed at all...and then I recycle it.  *sigh*  It would probably be good for me to find a physical outlet for my feelings, especially something that allows me to be loud and destructive in a controlled and safe way.  The only thing that comes to mind immediately is going to a shooting range and shooting at targets, but I suspect that they aren't likely to let me just show up with no training, no license and no weapon just to get out my frustrations.  Maybe bowling would be a better idea.

Mists - are there any parks in your area that you could go to? I'm thinking somewhere that's slightly secluded and where you are surrounded by nature could be a good place to go and just yell. It would be particularly good, I think, if there was a waterfall there (since they are noisy, there would less chance of a passerby wondering what was going on and also because they are great to throw things at - rocks, sticks, etc.).

(((((Mists)))))

I too have felt those types of emotions - and known the feeling of needing to throw and smash things.

I have also been known to go to a secluded spot on the river and - yep - yell and scream and throw rocks.

Shared in hope that it may help to have someone point out a way that you might be able to do what you feel like doing.  And in hope that it may be helpful to be told that what you feel is normal and that others have felt it and survived it.

Dear mists, just so you know, I am one of those people who find it easy to rage and scream and throw things. Over the long haul of a lifetime, your way is better. In mine, stuff gets broken that you never wanted to break and sometimes you can't put Humpty together again. 

But for you, right now, I think you should find some harmless stuff to hit. Writing out the worst of the blackness of your anger and grief and then burning it might help, too.

Realistically you could pick up a child's large bowling ball set in the toy section of any dept. store I would think. You and Rachel can go bowling  in the kitchen! You can also buy a cheap  dart set for the wall,  basketball set,   or a pr. of child's hockey sticks ( $1. store)  with a plastic puck or soft ball, buy a small net or use makeshift...lol...( kitchen hockey). Jim may sit on a chair and play if he's able. 

I had so much fun with my crashin' smashin' grandson growing up. We played all of the outdoor games inside. He and his grandpa played  all kinds of ball battin' games as well, soft balls. No windows broken, praise be! Adult bowling would be good if you have someone to go with. I recall children's bowling  b-day parties but age 5 may be too young, I forget. We also played ping pong on the dining table. I live in an apt. so imagine all that we did...lol. People  were shocked : "What are you doing?". I do think physical exercise is very beneficial for all concerned at this time and gender doesn't matter.

Do whatever it takes. Adult therapy I recall reading about would be punching bed pillows. You can break dishes, they are your own. In some ways you sound like a bit of a  perfectionist  believing life should go according to a certain script. Oops,sorry, I shouldn't judge, I don't know you. When I've gone through rough times myself I've tried to remind myself that others before me have travelled the very same road. If they succeeded in getting through I'd figure I could too because I wasn't less than anyone else.

I hope you're having a better day today. I know you'll be so happy to see Rachel. The trick to positive thinking or not falling into a mud muddle is to stand outside one's own mind so to speak and observe or listen to one's own thoughts. When our thoughts  are too negative we have to make an effort to switch to thinking positive or normal. Its quite difficult as we must remain realistic at the same time. Perhaps life itself presents as kind of a paradox or contradiction?  All is well......all is not well.....

P.S. As an afterthought I was thinking when you go to see Jim next time you might bring along something in the line of foodstuffs that you know are liked by Jim or his parents. A treat...if you will.... ( candy, scotch mints,cookies,muffins,cake,pie, or fruit ?) or a low cost  bouquet of flowers from a variety or grocery store for the hall or dining table, just a cheery  gesture of good will.

Running. And working out at the gym. You can punch the punch bag, do aerobics, maybe those weight machines... but Running I find helpful. Your heart rate rises, your energy can be released, you can run as hard as you can to let it out.

You can beat up a pillow. I like ripping paper too. I think shooting a gun is less an anger release than something that requires soundness/calmness of mind, concentration and accuracy. Same with archery. I have shot a gun once.

Also the thought occured to me that maybe it would be better if Jim talked to Rachel about his illness? That it might be better coming from him first?

I watched a show yesterday abotu cancer and protein. I'm starting a new thread about it. Please do check it out Mists. Maybe, just maybe, this could help.

Mists, glad to hear that Rachel will be coming home. I know this will be hard for you telling her how sick her Daddy is. It's hard having to be the strong one throughout all this. Jim needs you, Rachel needs you and all you probably want to do is collapse and have someone take care of the whole mess, but alas, this moment is yours to take hold of.

As others have stated a good cry and a scream in the wilderness (well I sat in my parked car) is very healing. I'm not sure if this will help you at all, but I used to also listen to the sermons on the Christian radio station, I seemed to only relate to the pieces that helped me. I didn't dissect the philosophy or the theology I just listened, and for some reason there was something that would speak to my heart and give me strength.  And of course Mist, if your church is open, it's a lovely place for solitude and prayer.

I am praying that you will find strength.

Mists - I think you may be feeling guilty in wishing that if it is inevitable it would happen sooner and end this nightmare.  I remember as at age 14 feeling this way about my mother.   It didn't dare voice the thought or form it into words, but I was just so tired of the sickness and worry, the poverty, the unpredictability of our lives.  My mother did die and I felt guilty for years until I finally was able to believe that it was normal under the circumstances.   Even now, over fifty years later I wouldn't dare say anything to my sisters, but they probably felt the same and it is still too painful to talk about.  

And now I watch an elderly friend worrying about her husband who is going through the long process of dying of heart failure.  She has signed the 'do not rescitate' order.   I can't help think how much easier her life would be if she had signed it before the last incident.   But he has lived his life.  

And I know the situation you are in just ain't fair. 

Yes...I do feel guilty about that.  I want him to live and be healthy again for a long time, but I also think sometimes that with so little hope at the moment, time just leads to more suffering.  My sister-in-law's mother died of lung cancer last year after a 2 and a half year fight.  For most of that time she was weak and in pain, and her whole family was hurting all the time.  It seemed to me that death would have been kinder to everyone because her mom would have been out of pain and her family would have been able to finally start healing.  We're not at that point with Jim yet, but it could come, and I do feel guilty for thinking it because I feel like I'm supposed to be just overflowing with hope all the time and never waver in it.  Is it better, though, to hang in there for 2 or 3 years, feeling sicker and sicker from all the treatments, and then to die anyway?  Is it better for Rachel to watch her father get sicker and suffer?  I still want him to recover and I still believe it's possible...after all, some people have to survive when we have survival rates of even 1%.  BUT, if he's not going to be one of them, I think it would be better for everyone if he died sooner instead of lingering.  That's a very hard thought to accept.

sounds pretty normal to me Mists of spring and spirit of autumn,

It is also quite possible to believes 2 opposing things at the same time

To hope with all your heart and soul for healing a

and to hope that Jim is spared more pain

And it's also possible to switch back and forth beween hopes

Be gentle with yourself. Rest assured that you love Jim and he knows it.

Hi MistsOfSpring,

A conversation nobody wants to start and nobody wants to hear.

Regrettably a conversation that needs to be had and the sooner the better.

It is what it is. Most of all it is painful.

Those are the dreams of life and they are far mor pleasant to dwell upon that your current nightmare. But you aren't in the dream at the moment, you are very much in the nightmare. Now is the time to deal with it.

Which makes every moment remaining precious and not the kind of thing one wants to devote to pain and suffering. They will, unfortunately be a part of the journey from here on.

Nightmares do eventually end. That isn't much if any comfort I know. It is true nonetheless. Just as true as the fact that once the nightmare is over we shake with fear for quite sometime afterwards.

It is more than your family. It is the whole of your life, and Rachel's life and to an extent the lives of your parents and Jim's parents. It is the end of hopes and dreams. Nobody here envies you at the moment that is for certain. You are going to lose so much and you are going to hurt so much. Not everything will be lost. It will very definitely feel like everything is gone.

I get that. I'd want to smash things too.

I get that too. Even if you could find a place to hide and pretend this isn't the kind of thing that lets you.

Sooner or later you'd crawl out of the hiding spot to find it has been sitting, waiting and getting uglier all the while.

I can understand the wants. They are going to go unfulfilled. And that actually is as it should be. It hurts right now because you are going to lose something that you value greatly.

There will always be pain associated with this loss though it becomes manageable in time. If it didn't hurt then it never had any meaning. It means a lot to you and so it is going to hurt a lot to be without it.

It will stop, eventually.What you need most is to endure.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all of you. As one who has guided many families through similar ugliness I wish there was a way to spare you from it. I know of no easy way through the wilderness you are now forced to travel. I only know that it is survivable.

Grace and peace to you.

John

MistsofSpring, all I can say, based on my experience, is you will get through this but it takes time.  Give yourself that time.  Don't expect it; it will find you.  In the meantime do what you have to do; cry, scream, vent, hold your little girl close and if at some moment you laugh don't feel guilty about that one either.

I will recommend a book, Joan Didion's Year of Magical Thinking, with the caveat that I read this book 20 years after my husband died so I may have been in the right time to read it.  She walks you through that first horrible year and lets you know that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

She also explains why after 20 years of reasonable happiness there are days I still cry.

I don't want to give you false hope, but if it's not to late allready, you could try switching him to a whole foods vegan diet. That's what this documentary I watched was about, studies that show that animal protein promotes the growth of cancer cells. And that taking those proteins out of the diet can actually reduce cancer cells. I thought of you when I watched it, worth a try perhaps...

I had a family friend die of cancer a number of years ago, and it was long and drawn out and painful for the family, especially as they were caring for him at home, clearing away bodily messes, dealing with the wildly swinging emotions of everyone. The wife, a dear friend of mine, also wished it had ended more humanely. She still sais, "Why can't they let people die with dignity? We would never let our dogs suffer in ths way, so why people?" She loves her dogs.

I've been trying not to think about all of this today.  Rachel is home now and my parents are here for a few days.  We saw Jim yesterday and he was very weak.  Rachel didn't know how to act around him and felt uncomfortable, although she willingly gave him a hug and kiss hello and good bye.  She finally got a bit more comfortable when I was sitting on the bed next to him and she was kind of bouncing at the bottom of the bed, but when she wanted to snuggle up with me, she didn't want to be between us, which would be the usual way she'd snuggle at home with us before all of this. 

John, I don't often reply to things you've said.  I want you to know that it isn't a lack of appreciation because I do appreciate the things you say.  You are honest and direct and wise.  I think I don't reply because honest, direct and wise at this point is hard to digest. 

Elanorgold, I'll mention that to Jim and see what he thinks.  Right now he's very weak and getting any food in to him is a good thing, regardless of what it is.  I'm honestly not sure if he'd even consider trying it, though.  He generally dismisses anything that isn't conventional medicine as quackery, and even in he event that the medical establishment backed it completely, he's always been a terrible eater.  It's very hard to get him to eat any kinds of vegetables and he hates most fruit, too.  For as long as I've known him he basically eats and drinks coffee, pop and peanut butter sandwiches.

Mists - I've been thinking about you and wondering how the conversation with Rachel went. I'm glad she's home now and that your parents are able to stay for awhile.

I think it's natural that Rachel would be uncomfortable with Jim - I think I would be too, given the situation. Give her some time and support and she will come around. Her world has been turned upside down, but gradually she will get used to the new "normal." Like you, she will have her good days and her bad ones.

mists... regarding your feelings of just wishing it would happen soon....

friends of mine lost their daughter to leukemia last year, and said THE EXACT SAME THING... their lives had been pretty much dictated by doctors, chemo, and blood tests for 4 years.  they had to watch their daughter struggle with all of that, knowing that their other child was missing out on so much because they just didn't have the time or energy for her...

they felt EXACTLY the same way.  guilt and all.

i don't know if that helps any, to know that your feelings are not at all unusual... i would suggest that ANYONE going through the slow and painful death of a loved one would feel the same way.

NOTHING to feel guilty about, mists. 

MistsOfSpring . . . thinking of you this day.  I am touched by the honesty and emotion in which you share your story, and that of Jim's and Rachael's.  I hope in some way you find release and strength by sharing  your struggles and feelings here, and hopefully with others, too.  I hope others (myself included) develop more empathy, understanding, and compassion for those in their lives as they learn from all your share.  May you be strengthened, upheld, and comforted this day.

Glad Rachel and your parents are both at your house. I trust your parents will also have a chance to visit with Jim.

Don't read too much into tachel's behaviour. This is the longest she has been away from both her mom and dad and now her dad is living with her grandparents. That's a lot for a 4 year old but on top of it her dad is sick.

Hugs and prayers to you all!

Hi Mists - feeling for you as you struggle with each day, even each hour to hold things together.  

I'm sure Rachel is frightened and confused to see her father in such an altered state but she will warm to him.  She will take her cues from you and your loving presence.

Elanorgold made some suggestions about food choices above...so will comment on those.

When my husband was ill, partly from cancer, partly from the chemo and other drugs, which seriously compromise the immune system and kill the appetite,  we decided to purchase a juicer.    It is an easy way to provide nutrition and even energy at times like these.

Although my husband didn't like carrot juice, he would drink a combo of celery and apple or grape.  I also made some fruit shakes with bananas, oranges, apples, strawberries, etc. in various combinations.  You said Jim doesn't like most fruits, but he might enjoy the fruit shakes.  I put ice cubes in the ones I made in the blender and the coolness seemed to be soothing.

Might be worth a try....even if Jim sips it through a straw.

Take care of yourself.   Saying prayers for you.

PS - will Jim try some of the drinks such as Ensure or Carnation Instant Breakfasts?

Hi MistsOfSpring,

Thank you for posting this.  I wasn't feeling ignored.

I am aware that your plate is exceptionally full and some of the stuff on it is not going to be fun eating.

My prayers for you and your family continue as long as you have need of them.

Grace and peace to you.

John

MistsOfSpring ... I just want you to know that I am so very sorry to know where things are at for Jim, and you and Rachel. It is just all so unfair. I cannot begin to imagine what you are experiencing. My heart breaks. Please know that I am continuing to hold you in my thoughts.

Mists you could ask your doctor about Vitamin B12 injections for Jim. It can help to reduce the fatigue and help in the production of red blood cells.

Still praying for you and your family.

Hey waterfall-I had jusr inquired about B12 injections for my son. There are now sub-lingual B12 that are as effective as the shots. (Sub-lingual means under the tongue)

He actually chose a strip that disolves on his tongu. No prescription-just over the counter. Seems to be helping.

Mists, sorry that things are progressing in the way they are.  Glad to see the support & wisdom of the cafe coming your way.  may you have a good sleep tonight