Drah - I too would have a hard time accepting that God intervenes according to the number and power of prayers, or on some fickle system of choosing who to heal and who to leave to their suffering. 

I think it more likely to have been chance or luck or just the way you fell or your youth and excellent physical condition that prevented your spinal cord to be irrepairable damaged.  That and prompt and excellent medical attention. 

I also believe that positive thoughts and a 'good' attitude helps people respond to physical injuries and illnesses.  Whether you call it positive vibes, or prayers, or the support of friends, together with your own belief system, I think all this has a positive effect. 

My understanding is that babies who have their basic physical needs met (food, water, cleanliness) but who are otherwise ignored fail to thrive, while babies in similar situations surrounded by love, thrive and grow strong.   I think this probably applies to us throughout our lives. 

Yes, the power of love, expressed in those prayers, is helping you to respond to the care given by the medical profession.   May it continue to do so. 

Hello Drahcir and welcome to WonderCafe.ca,

Which is fair.

Miracle is a word used when some event surpasses all human or natural powers or abilities.  In your own words you recall a surgeon who told you that there was no 'reasonable' explanation for why you weren't paralyzed.

So, if no reasonable explanation exists we are left to come up with unreasonable ones or step outside of reason into the realm of faith (which is not unreasonable in and of itself).

Looking at the world through the lense of faith one sees the hand of God at work whenever the improbable or the impossible would appear to be the norm.

Presuming that God is benevolent and loves all that God has created it is not irrational to suggest that God intervenes from time to time in ways that we find unusual.  Trying to determine why God would intervene in any instance leads to speculation about more which is unknown than it does about that which is known.

To be blunt there are some who would be inclined to say that your ordeal, as miraculous as it may appear to others, is clearly proof of sin in your life and that this is God chastizing you.

Hopefully anybody at WonderCafe.ca who might think that way will avoid posting such nonsense to this thread.

Going back to your particular circumstance.  I am confident nobody would have been blaming God for your death given all of the circumstances you relate.  In fact, your death in those circumstances would have been tragic for your family but quite understandable to everyone.  In a nutshell, if it is a miracle that you are alive then it would have been quite normal for you not to have lived.

Well, that is not an uncommon point of view.  I think it stems from a fear of reprisal more so any real reverence or respect for God.  I don't think God's first response for being blamed when things go wrong is outrage.  I suspect that God is able to commiserate with those who blame him for evil in the world and embrace them despite accusations which may be unfair or unjust.

Perhaps in some strange way God is much like P.T. Barnum and he doesn't care what we say about him so long as we spell the name right.  Not that I believe God is a publicity hound like Barnum, I do think that we would think of God in the good or the bad suggests a profoundly intimate connection is in place.

There are faith traditions which have no problem putting their finger in God's face and demanding answers.  How God responds to such challenge can be difficult to predict.

I don't think the analogy is close.

For starters other people are giving you their opinions and their opinions are that since you did not die God must have intervened.  God is not weighing in and actually taking credit for doing anything.  So, just because the same folk who think God intervened and saved you from dieing a normal death don't believe God caused your accident it doesn't follow that God wouldn't take any responsibility for that either.

God, in the conversation, is the one being talked about and not the one doing the talking.

So it is people's opinions about God that may not be consistent and not God that has proven to be inconsistent.

Why would you?  Remember miracle is something that is, by definition, out of the ordinary.  That you were not paralyzed given the circumstances, is abnormal, most would have been paralyzed if they were not killed.

If the next time you roll your ATV the expected outcomes happen the most that can be said is that God did not intervene, that no miracles happened, that life unfolded as it well as it could reasonably be expected to.

Now.  If you were just sitting watching Dancing with the Stars and you suffered the same severe injuries for no explicable reason there would be people convinced that you were particularly evil and God was attempting to take you out of the picture.  The word miracle would not be used (the religious save that word for positive events not negative ones) still, there would be many who believed God intervened by striking you down.

I don't see the same flaws you do.

Still, the idea of intervention is one which raises a lot of questions.

Somebody is supposed to get on a plane and has second thoughts, or events conspire to cause them to miss getting on that plane and the plane goes down killing everyone aboard.  Someone will exclaim that it is a miracle they were spared.

Miracle?  Really?  In what way?

How many people have anxiety about flying and decide to cancel their flights on a daily basis?  How many flights when somebody cancels due to anxiety crash killing all on board?

Next to none.

How many people have events conspire to cause them to miss their flights on a daily basis?  How many flights when somebody misses due to events beyond their control crash killing all on board?

Next to none.

Statistically, how many planes crash on a daily bais?

Next to none.

So, it is not exactly a miracle that somebody misses a flight or cancels a flight at all.  The odds of a plane actually crashing is, statistically speaking, very small.

Now for that one person who chose not to get on that plane or was prevented from getting on that plane the fact that the plane went down killing all on board means that had they been on board they would have certainly died.  For them it is a brush with death and why should they have survived when others did not.  What reason makes their living okay and all others dying a tragedy?

Luck of the draw?  It is as reasonable an explanation as any.

When divine intervention is lifted up as a possibility the objections begin, "did God not love any of the others on the plane . . . "

And the reason why intervention is problematic is because it reveals a God who may be entirely unpredictable and more than a little inconsistent in approach to all peoples of the world.

A God of that nature terrifies everyone.  That is God outside of every conceivable box and there are not many people in the world who are comfortable with a God who can get that close on a whim.

I balk at the use of the word miracle not because I do not believe in the miraculous but rather because I believe we apply the word where it does not rightly belong.

A surgeon cannot believe that you weren't paralyzed and says so.  His experience has taught him that such injuries cause such damage.  There is no natural law that says all injuries must result in that damage.  So, you are statistically so anomalous that the word miracle is a good fit even if one rules out divine intervention of any kind.

A surgeon giving that opinion to non-surgeons probably allows non-surgical minds to think shoulds = musts and the only way to avoid a must is for some higher power to intervene so God is thrust into events where God is already present and given responsibility for actions that God may never have taken.

But . . .

What if God did take such action and God has intervened in your life?

What does that mean?

Does it mean that God loves you more than others similarly injured and not 'miraculously' helped?

No.  It doesn't.

It means that God chose to act graciously and we have been permitted to see that.  It isn't God making a moral evaluation of who deserves his help and who doesn't.

Frankly, if God did intervene, I'm sure it was for some reason other than opening the door to further debate between interventionist views of God and non-interventionist views of God.

You have a second chance denied so many others.  The question is, what will you make of it.

Do you deserve to have a chance to be able to walk again?

No.  you don't deserve such a chance.  At least not any more than the next guy.

You have been given that chance.  Accept it and move on.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Drahcir, I am curious - where do you see God in your story?

I'm glad you survived your accident Drahcir.  Even more glad that the damage to your body wasn't totally devastating. 

I don't have any great theological insights to share with you about your 'miracle' above and beyond noting that this sort of thing happens sometimes (and other times people die, or are permanently damaged by things that are usually mildly inconvenient).

I don't have a belief system with a god that micro manages everyones lives - sending good or ill for various reasons.  Neither do I believe in a god who punishes or rewards people with miracles or disasters.   It seems to me that stuff happens - and sometimes it is better or worse than other stuff. 

At various times in my own life I have had people stating things that make no sense to me (like - you must be such a wicked person that god is punishing you like this - or - god must have told your passenger to have you stop for something from Timmy's or you would have been the people killed at the intersection). 

The bottom line seems to be that no one KNOWS whether there is an actual god - or whether it is just a way of talking about the endless, wonderful, mysteries of life.

That's an interesting question.  I was on vacation with a group of family at the time of the accident, all of whom belong to the SDA Church.  This is a fairly conservative demonination that, among other beliefs, emphasizes daily worship as a family.  We had a prayer that God would keep us safe on our trip minutes before leaving.  In a manner of speaking, I suppose He did.  On the other hand, I don't believe the outcome would have been much different had we not prayed.  

At the end of the day, I think there are fixed prrnciples of physics.  If you are thrown from a fast moving vehicle to the ground, you're probably going to be injured.  The severity of those injuries probably depends more on overall health and bone density and less on prayer.  I read a book recently, 'Where is God When it Hurts.  The author, Phillip Yancey, believes much the same that God does not micro manage individual lives.

I will admit that after the accident, prayer did have a positive affect on me personally.  It was nice to believe that so many people were concerned about me.  Unfortunately, this experience has not resulted in a spiritual awakening where I now know of some greater purpose for my life,

Hopefully, God was there watching over the situation and will continue to watch over me and my family.  I do think iths experience has taught me to be more thankful for the 364 days of the year when  nothing bad happens,  I suppose in a manner of speaking, that is the real miracle!

Maybe your awakening is happening but not quite the way you imagined it.  Could it be that the accident has woken up your willingness to ask tough questions?

Sometimes it takes something major and life-changing to make us appreciate what we have.

I had the opportunity to hear Phillip Yancey speak a couple of years ago - he was quite interesting to listen to.

Drahcir - Miracles are not the direct intervention of the supernatural as much as they are an opportunity. You could have been killed, but now you have the rest of your life ahead of you. What will you do with the opportunity? That's where the real miracle will reside - if you chose to let it be. Was God present in your accident? Sure - in the hands of the many health professionals that worked to save your life. Now will you in turn let God work through you (for that is how God works) and help make your world a better place?

Drahcir:

One question to ask, is if rather than a hidden injury of indeterminate prognosis, what if you had lost a limb, would those same family and friends be expecting a miracle to replace it for you?

In the world of claimed miracles, God seems able to do almost anything miraculous, but completely unable to replace lost limbs, even though that is within the power of a skilled surgeon under some circumstances.

The stumper for any person who claims miracles is, why doesn't God heal amputees?