Did anyone else see this? What are your thoughts?

I didn't see the documentary, but I did hear an interview about it on the radio.  Sounded interesting and makes you think about it.

I live in a small community and I know personally of 2 person who were diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in their early 20's - both of whom I know smoked pot in their teens - perhaps a coincidence - who knows.  There are also others in the community who are diagnosed schizophrenics who were rumored to have done drugs in their teens.

I believe the information stated that not all teens who smoke pot will develope schizophrenia, but there is a greater risk for those who might be "pre-disposed" if they smoke pot.  The interviewee on the radio also said that the pot today is so much stronger than the pot of the 60's and 70's.  One does wonder what this does to the brains of those who smoke regularly . . . just as there are other things that can cause damage to our brains (alcohol, other chemicals, etc.).

Hi Beloved:

These were points raised in the documentary which can be watched online -- those who are interested can go to the webpage in the opening post and find instructions for doing so there. I found the presentation to be very interesting and worth consideration, not from a prohibitionist perspective but from a health perspective.

The previously held view of schizophrenia and pot was that perhaps those who were experiencing the onset of symptoms (or prodromal stages) were using pot and other substances to self-medicate. What's interesting about the theory in this documentary is that there is reason to believe that the events happen the other way around.

 I know that people who have a daily marijuana 'habit' are generally paranoid and distrustful, especially when they have their own plants growing in the closet or basement.   They are anti-social to all but their fellow potheads who they could trust to not rat them out. Everyone else they kept at arms length and can't relate comfortably to anyone but their cronies.

I've  already heard about marijuana triggering psychosis in those who are predisposed to it. I can see that happening very easily. I am glad that they are putting this information  more 'out there' for people to know about.  Before, the only ones who really knew were the ones living with schizophrenia in their own lives--their own or somebody else's illness.   An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (or in this case, treatment).

I saw this program advertised and I will have to try and catch it.  Go David Suzuki!  Woot woot!

You can't "Counter-argue" government sponsored propaganda that has the law on it's side.

Nobody would fund a really independant study.

If your "study" doesn't support the predetermined conclusions, it and you will be shitcanned.

I know several people who have been diagnosed "Schizophrenic". The article and the speculations here are facile insults to many profoundly ill people. The only drug I have encountered that induced this terrible disease was a legal antipsychotic (Haldol) administered by many doctors and hospitals in Ontario, often to kids. I have seen kids destroyed by this drug and the authorities always respond "Wasn't  she like this when she came in?'

Ignorance of Mental Illness in Ontario (and most everywhere else) is widespread and tragic.

Bedlam is a step up from Ontario's treatment of mental illness.

Honestly, this wouldn't suprsie me if this was the case. Marijuana is a drug, after all, and it is sure to have some effects on those who take it. Especially with developement of teenagers brains. And there has is already a link between drug use and psychosis.

There isn't a counter-argument. It's factually correct. Any mental health or addiction counsellor will agree with the conclusion. Pot is not benign.

DKS Aw Hogwash!!!!!

The connection is that a lot of mentally ill kids are prone to abuse drugs, not the other way around.

This includes alcohol, pot, tobacco (especially), glue, and overeating. Borderline antisocial behaviour is a symptom of illness.

Sure they smoked pot; They also drank milk. Shall we blame milk?

Don't confuse a symptom with a cause. Pot is relatively harmless, less so than alcohol.

SLJudds, that's what needs further exploration. I'm not a prohibitionist as regards marijuana but I think this question can't be ignored. Have you watched the documentary piece? Their argument, at least on the surface, seems to be quite cogent and at least means that further investigation is called for. As far as haldol goes, I quite agree that everything indicates that it is dangerous and has been misused but that's not the issue raised in this program.

I remember a 17 year old who I met who I would have bet a paycheque that he would be diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was using a large amount of marijuana. When he stopped using, the symptoms also went away.

I did my third year field placement for my BSW at a provincial psychiatric hospital. I noticed then that the number of people who had used certain drugs was interesting. It seemed to me at the time, that there was a link between mental illness and drug use.

When I worked at an addictions program in Toronto, there were many people who reported that they had used acid or similar drugs in their youth, and now as adults would have psychotic symptoms if they used even small amounts of marijuana.

The current marijuana has higher amounts of THC and lower amounts of a protective substance. It is far more dangerous than the marijuana of the 60's and 70's.

I do not believe that marijuana is harmless. It will always be a bit of a game of russian roulette. Some people will have serious side effects, while some will have few or no ill effects.

Oh boy you folks are totally gullible you know by now everyone should have cancer of the body , blood clots , damaged livers and mutant sperm

anything in excess is harmful ....

what do you think about the link between cat shit and schizo ?

if this article were true we would be seeing hundreds of schizos in clusters all over the world

and this coming from a cornhole like David S ?

My opening post was incorrect -- although this was presented on The Nature of Things and that program is hosted by David Susuki, he did not put together this documentary. My apologies for this error.

From the website, "The Downside of High is directed and written by Bruce Mohun, story-produced by Maureen Palmer, and produced by Sue Ridout for Dreamfilm Productions of Vancouver."

Really interesting.  I thought the program was a bit sensationalistic in some regards, but that's to be expected.  My thought is, however, that perhaps it's more complex than that.  Doesn't genetics play a role as well?  Wouldn't some percentage of these kids develop schizophrenia regardless of whether or not they smoked pot?

I agree about the thc levels bred into current strains of pot.  I heard one guy say he gave up smoking it because it was so strong it made him nauseous. 

Even so, I think it would be a shame to react by taking decriminalization or legalization off of the table.  I was just talking lately to someone who needs it for muscle spasms due to disabling paralysis.  There's so much to learn and uses to explore yet. 

Maybe cannabis-induced psychosis is like a peanut allergy and it's good to know the risk factors and act accordingly.  That doesn't mean we have to rid the world of peanut butter though. 

Sorry. You don't get it. The point of the program is that the extremely potent levels of active ingredients are triggering schizophrenia in young men. Amd pot is, most assuredly, not harmless.

...young people, dks. Girls, while experiencing schizophrenia at lower rates than boys, are not "immune".

 My thought is, however, that perhaps it's more complex than that.  Doesn't genetics play a role as well?  Wouldn't some percentage of these kids develop schizophrenia regardless of whether or not they smoked pot?

There really isn't a clear connection between drug use and schizo , so it could be borderline true or not , there also isn't a clear diagostic set of checkpoints either ....... 

a lot of the medical community all over the world could say that this is the "lupus" of mental disorders ... since so many symptoms are common in so many other mental illnesses .... it would be nice to have simple answers but like most things in life there never is one ....

And on a personal note

i would be schizo by now when i think of the forest of pot that i smoked in my lifetime .... so far so good

anything in excess is bad for you

jes, the video was quite clear that the risk didn't apply across the board -- and, the whole theory is presented in a very reasonable way. I would encourage you to watch it -- it's not about quality or quantity for some but could be both for others.

Further recent research about  this issue was discussed in a recent 'New Scientist'. Apparently, selective breeding to produce stronger pot has led to a more psychosis-triggering mix... THC (tetrahydrocabinol, the 'high' producer) used to be in a more equal balance with another compound, CBD (cannabidiol) that moderates brain cell reaction to THC. The reduced levels of CBD in street  "skunk" these days does mean that psychoses and psychotic reactions are rather more likely to kick in than they used to be.

This also means that research done in the 60s and 70s, for example, doesn'y necesssarily hold up today because what's being studied is a different monkey.

Chronic psychosis and marijuana usage do connect, but not everyone has the same vulnerability. The point is that vulnerability often isn't known until too late. 

I would like to know who funded this picture.

I am a non-religious person, and that comment inspired me to make a user account on the United Church of Canada's site, just so I could tell you that you are the epitome of closed mindedness and ignorance. Just thought I would let you know :)

Cheers

 The thing is, I used to be a pot head myself, for over a decade.  I rubbed elbows with them all day every day.  I am not referring to the recreational users, but those who smoke it daily and if they don't they get anxious and sometimes irritable.  I have hung out with sellers and growers too.  I left it all behind in my early 30's and find hindsight to be 20/20.

Some of you guys really need to get high and get that edge off .............

Trishcuit, I respect the fact that you have some personal expience in dealing with 'pot heads', and im not denying that 'Some' of them may behave in this way. The point im making is that you cannot make a statement applying to all daily users of pot. Just like you cant say all arabs are terrorists, or all jewish people are cheap. Your expeiences with daily users may have been as you describe, but there are plenty of us out there leading 'normal' productive lives... we just eat a little more.

All im saying, is that one facet of a person cannot be used to determine as much as some are letting on.

Cheers, N8

i see nothing wrong with occasional recreational use.  it seems to have a more benign effect on many people than alcohol.   I don't do it myself anymore but don't condemn others if they want a hoot occasionally.  

you're right, that was my personal experience with daily pot smokers.   In fact those were about the only ones I came across.  

And I try very hard to not stereotype anyone.  Jews  I highly respect and other Middle Eastern nations which I am learning more about.  We all want the same things, at the end of the  day. To live  peaceful lives and raise our families in safety.  

There are degrees

Not all users are addicts

jesouhaite777 wrote: "There are degrees"

EZ Answer: You can get a degree in pot smoking?

Yep. A Ph.D in Blazology.

N8

what I was saying initially was based on my own observations and somewhat lengthy experience.  It was VERY easy to see how daily marijuana use can trigger psychosis in certain people.  Just my observations and hindsight is indeed 20/20.

Jes, I agree with you.  There are degrees.  I like an occasional glass of wine (correction: I LOVE an occasional glass of wine)  or a cold beer on a hot day. That does not make me an alcoholic.

or a BFA

Bachelor of Fine Bud

Or a Masters of Splifonomics.

Wow, I must be really wasted.  That should be a "BFB", eh.

A Master of Splifonomics having completed a thesis in Bong Theory

 How about a Bong Water tasting  evening coupled with the appropriate munchies?

What munchie is appropiately coupled with bong water? dirt perhaps? lol

I am in favour of full legalization of marijuana and it should have the same legal status as alcohol.

The alarmists on this thread who claim some kind of expert knowledge seem to me like they are setting up a caricature of the plant and the people who enjoy it.  People who are high on pot all the time are going to show impaired behaviour just as people who are drunk all the time will be less competent.

Cannabis has a wide range of characteristics.  The ripe plants can have a full height of 1m/ 3ft or they can be more than 10 feet, depending on the specific breed.  The 'skunk' varieties are not the only types and the ripe, unfertilized female flowers can have a variety of fragrances and tastes depending on the genetic breed.  They can have mild, sweet smells with fragrances of berries, citrus, flowers, spicy-sweet, earthy, cedar, etc.  My personal preference is for the soft, sweet, fruity or floral types that reach a full height of less than 4 feet.   I plan on starting a small crop on my balcony this spring and summer.  "Blueberry Indica" is a type that I especially enjoy that gets its name from the sweet, berry-like fragrance of the ripe, unfertilized female flowers and the purple colour.

Sorry, I disagree. Just ask any addiction or mental health counsellor. Pot is not benign, as this documentary suggests.

Research links pot to stuff, sure. Reaserch says pot is not benign, sure.

Nothing is really benign, even things beneficial or good for you are deemed so based on variables... like quality, quantity... possible contamination, etc...

Red meat increases cancer risk. Chicken is linked to urinary tract infections in women (e. coli).  Fish has been linked to diabetes and high blood pressure (mercury). Tomatoes, potatoes, etc... have been linked to Parkinson's disease (pesticides). Semi- dried tomatoes to Hep A.....

Links to schizophrenia... hmmm

The flu in pregnancy is linked to schizophrenia in adulthood.

Meat, dairy and saturated fat consumpiton is linked to schizophrenia.

Toxoplasmosis (parasite from cats) is linked to schizophrenia.

Birth in winter months is linked to higher rates of schizophrenia.

Living in an urban environment is linked to higher rates of schizophrenia.

A mother who had an STD, rubella, was greiving, or used aspirin is linked to higher rates of schizophrenia.

BTW an older father, stress, low folic acid, Vitamin D deficiency, low birth weight, socail adversity or child abuse, bottle fed, celiac or wheat allergy, or other auto-immune disorders, smoking cigs in your youth.... all are linked to schizophrenia.

Adding another layer to the stigma already on mental illness is not impressive to me.

I have the "schizophrenic" genetic complex in my family's DNA structure.  In fact, I can diagram a family tree for you from that one particular family and name every individual who has had "schizophrenic" episodes.  In the first generation of people who presented there were only 2 who had an occurence and one was due to post partum depression (  8 kids in  12 years)  and she was given beyond the full slate of shock treatments ( 30 in one month period).  that pretty well did her in ( 1940's) but she was such a brilliant woman that she stayed her course in her humble home and even had a come-back in her senior years, moved to her dream home in the mountains and lived happily until she died.    She had 2 schizophrenic children and one chronically depressed.  The schizophrenics were both pot induced.  the depression out of booze

That woman had an older brother  who was often  depressed,  paranoid & abusive .  He had one schizophrenic child out of 5.  She is a published poet and had avoided medication and diagnosis.

In that generation, psychosis only came out mostly in those who drank and that was few as the family were Irish Protestant and tee totlars. 

But by the 70's when pot was easy to get "schizophrenia" has been a common occurence in the family and I know for a fact, that it has always been pot induced, although, acid was also a contributing factor from the generation who did the 70's. 

And generally, most  of us do best to be very conservative about any booze and stay away from drugs completely.  Makes me think there was a good reason for this family to have remained t-totlars for generations in Ireland. 

So, in fact, all of the stats on the Suzuki show not only pan out in our family, but I have been trying to educate various shrinks and therapists about it t for at least 20 years.

All , I can say to disbelievers is  believe what you want but stay away from my kids because your anti-logic may destroy their lives. 

However, I am in favour of legalization of all drugs.  One year living in or around Vancouver would convince anyone that legalization is our only choice. 

As for the prejudice against people with mental health  issues, hiding the facts is not going to help that.  Mental Health is not  at similar to a  gay issues trip; though is is a civil rights one. 

We just need more education about the facts such as a Dr. in Vancouver recently  "coming out" to proclaim that many people living with a mental illness never are percieved as "crazy" and in fact do not really demonstrate behaviour related to psychosis whether or not they experience it.  Fact

Therefore, "Crazy" is a sociatal valuation of behaviour not necessarily related to mental illness.  Fact

Too bad there isn't a tip hotline to report dorks.

 DKS

Addiction or mental health councillors deal with the extremes.

Still, many disagree on  the harmfulness of pot. I have been in AA for 35 years (sober for 27) and have worked extensively with people with mental health and addiction issues over the decades.

I speak from experience.

Pot is far less damaging than alcohol. Still, those with addiction issues should avoid all mood altering substances if possible.

Marijuana also has several therapeutic uses.  I have found that eating small amounts works better than smoking because you can avoid getting stoned. I take it for muscle cramps, but I don't like getting high anymore. My teenager stepkids have all (8) smoked pot. 

SLJudds, very true.

The key here is moderation. Drinking to much milk or water can have negitive effects. A pot smoker seeing an addiction or mental health concellor is probably having a pretty hard time.

I simply think that most things are not benign. We are, after all, not benign ourselves. I also think you can take just about anything and have "research" show links. The thing is whether the research holds or not. I do not know that it will and cannot say that it will not. Neither can a scientist who is being scientific or honest. The best they should do, in honesty, is say that it warrants more study.

Is it the THC in cannabis or the increased fat consumption with the munchies? 

Is it the fact that the research was on urban pot smokers versus rural pot smokers? (Urban has a 50% higher risk).

Were those in the study born in each month? (A heavy winter birth rate Jan-April has a 10% increase)

Did they take into account the events in the lives of the pot smokers? (bereavement, a flood, earthquake, hurricane, terrorist attack, an unexpected pregnancy...)

The factors are endless....

Pot heads= schizophrenics is simply not true.

That is right. Pot though does trigger schizophrenic symptoms in SOME vulnerable people. That would probably be a minority, and would depend on various factors including things like genetics, family history and lifestyle.

Just a thought... educate your self a little more and visit..
www.theunionmovie.com/

Another documentary on marijuana.. taking a different perspective.

Many have already explained how I view this topic. Maybe marijuana can lead to schizophrenia, but what doesn't lead to one or another mental illness these days? At least there has not been one case where a persons cancer was linked to marijuana.

Hi DizzyLizzy -- Welcome!  Thanks for posting that link.  I watched the trailer and found it both interesting and depressing (I guess the craziness around cannabis-related politics leads to mental illness too).

I'm going to rent it from the video store here.

Besh, the summary states that the "relative risk is 6.0" -- I don't know what that term means and how the figure relates to risk for high users of marijuana. Can you elaborate?

Wow, that's a rather dramatic increase among the groupings, isn't it? I wonder if this applies to uses over a lifetime as well or if it's a "density" of usage, if you get my drift.

It is not news that pot and various drugs lead to schizophrenia.  Dr. Hoffer and associates had been publishing double blind stats on this since the 50's, I think.