Autism-vaccine study retracted

:D

What good news.  I hope it does make a difference.

I don't know why, but my Mom never believed a word of that study anyway.  My PDD-NOS brother was vaccinated as a babe and the decision was not regretted once he was diagnosed at three years.  Autism happens.

i'm amazed that this study got any play anyways, considering that the sample size was a whole TWELVE KIDS.

good grief, thats not a medical study, thats a birthday party.

You never fail to make me chuckle sighsnootles!

I'm glad to hear the journal has posted a retraction.  Will doing so change public views ... for some perhaps, but those opposed to vaccinations seem to have many sources of information and/or misinformation they draw from.   This may not amount to much in the eyes of some, unfortunately.

I have two sister-in-laws with 4 children between them that have not been vaccinated. This will not change their minds.

thats what i was thinking too... this whole 'MMR = liquid autism' thing has been given a life all its own, and it has nothing to do with reality.   it doesn't matter how bright you shine a light on this stuff, people are still going to believe what they belive, no matter how big the pile of evidence to the contrary.

i friend of my sons didn't get the H1N1 vaccine because his mom told him that 'there was mercury in it'... canada outlawed mercury in vaccines in the 90's, i believe. 

What is really surprising is that Lancet published it is the first place.  Such a distinguished medical journal to publish such tripe.

Will it affect those against vaccines.  Doubt it.  They are banking on the fact that most kids are vaccinated and they protect the rest.  Of course i think 3 unvaccinated kids in teh UK have died of measles so perhaps they will rethink.

There has been interesting work done where children affected by autism , having had the vaccinations have been retroactively assessed by docs.  Looking back at the 2 years or so of family pics and videos they are able to see that the kids had signs of autism that just weren't picked up due to the age of the child.  Yet when they shoudl be socialliising, talking ... then "suddenly " autism is seen.

It makes me curious what is the "link" . . . or if there is a link to anything - is there something that is causing what seems to be an increase in autism in children today?

As far as I can see, and I'm no expert, autism is just being more widely recognized and diagnosed.  Before, kids would just be considered "slow", "genius", "anti-social", or whatever... but now people have a much greater need to categorize.

My brother has PDD - NOS, which is Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified.  It is a really large umbrella for people who are autistic without ALL the "regular" symptoms/signs.  I think by having this wide-ranging category, a lot more people can be diagnosed who would otherwise just be considered "different".

(sorry for all the use of quotes.  I hate that I can't use tone of voice to italicize those words.)

I've been watching the whole Autism-vaccine thing develop; an interesting illustration of the creation of a BS.

A study comes out that is Authoritative.  Sombunall people see it and then incorporate it, then they forget over time where they saw it and it solidifes into Fact.  Now, as Fact, it is resistant to change, especially given our predisposition to not changing our beliefs, our notions that our beliefs come from somewhere 'out there', and the mind's ability to retcon reasons for our behaviours and beliefs :3

The slow and careful workings of science go on :3

Just a Self-writing poem,

InannaWhimsey

imho, it is simply that there is a diagnosis for this stuff... my son, who has been diagnosed with autism, has quite a few of the same character traits and idiosyncracies as my mother in law.  however, when my mother in law was a child, autism was unheard of, so she was never diagnosed with it.  my youngest brother would easily fit into the aspergers spectrum, but again, that stuff wasn't on the radar when he was in school, so it just never came up.

I agree.  Like many things it is more readily diagnosed.

It is hard to say how much of the increase is diagnosis and how much is awareness.

Childhood asthma is similar.  A big increase in incidence but 50 years ago, kids were just sickly or weak.  People gave kids "tonics" to increase their stamina.

Now it's time to tell the truth about the studies that link salt and heart disease :)

sighs isn't even joking.  I heard something on CBC radio the other day - that "doctor" took some of his samples at a birthday party.

H1N1 did have mercury (thimerosal).  They have tried to eliminate it for kids vaccines as much as possible.  The normal flu shots have thimerosal, the kids ones do not.

Hopefully by retracting the article, more kids will get vaccinated.  I don't blame parents who have autism in the family from avoiding the vaccines, especially with all the stories out there.  I don't understand those who aren't at a higher risk of autism though, you'd think they would be more worried about the diseases.

In ridiculously small amounts in the adjuvants (which make the vaccines more effective).  A can of tuna fish contains more mercury.  This scaremongering has got to stop.

They're stories.  The research doesn't back up the stories.  Unvaccinated kids are definitely getting sick from almost forgotten diseases.  Meanwhile, there is still no link between vaccines and Autism. 

They should be.  There was just an outbreak of whooping cough in BC.

Most vaccines in Canada are not adjuvanted, thimerosal is added as a preservative.  I'm not fearmongering, but providing misinformation doesn't help anyone.  I agree that to most people, the thimerosal doesn't pose much of a risk at all.  There are people who are allergic to it though, so telling them it isn't in any vaccine can be harmful.

I agree that it's stories, but I can understand the concern of parents with kids who have autism.  I'm not saying they are right, but with all the misinformation out there it is understandable.

I'm also frustrated by the misinformation on the other side though, saying EVERYONE should be vaccinated (as many of the H1N1 ads on tv that were paid for by the government said).  That's a different issue though, and I've brought it up in other threads. 

I must note that, even in the most scientific of publications, studies that enforce popular prejudices are held to a much different standard of quality from the rest.

Holistic medicines should be tested to the same standard as conventional drugs.

There should be a set standard of testing before any publication makes a medical claim.

There are many things that are "common knowledge" that aren't supported by real science, and medical hysteria and myths are the most common kinds of fallacy.

Another thing - "holistic medical practitioners" and Chiropractors should never be allowed to call themselves doctors. They should be called by their most descriptive title - con artists.

So what else has this "medical journal" published that may have to be retracted later? Makes you wonder.

I find it hard to believe that the initial scrutiny that accompanies all published medical articles missed the information that we are now being told has just been "discovered". My understanding is that they are ruthless before accepting something.

SLJudds, anyone holding a Doctorate can call themselves Dr.

The vaccines which are among those on the immunization schedule for children in BC do not contain thimersol however other vaccines, including seasonal flu, do.

This is a CBC report on  latest in an area near me -- click here to read the rest.

This little chart was also included.

Whooping cough facts:

Pertussis, or whooping cough, is a serious infection of the lungs and throat.

• About one in 200 people who get pertussis will die.
• Pertussis can cause pneumonia, convulsions, brain damage and death.
• Complications are seen most often in infants.
• The germ (bacteria) is easily spread by coughing, sneezing or close face-to-face contact.
• Pertussis can cause severe coughing that often ends with a whooping sound before the next breath.
• This cough can last several months and occurs more often at night.

The DTaP-IPV vaccine protects against four diseases:

• Diphtheria.
• Tetanus.
• Pertussis (whooping cough).
• Polio.

SLJudds, anyone holding a Doctorate can call themselves Dr.

 I feel this should at least be restricted to recognized universities

Here's another theory about autism that explains the issue of vaccines and the development of autism coinciding. The whole article, which I'm linking, is long but worth reading, especially for pregnant women or those thinking about having children. Vitamin D Explains Autism

Why do children first develop signs around the age of weaning?

If children can develop autism after birth, and it's not entirely a genetic brain injury before birth, then autism should be rare before weaning as infant formula contains significant amounts of vitamin D when calculated on a per-pound basis and breast fed babies are supposed to be supplemented with vitamin D. The disease should rapidly progress after weaning, unless the child takes vitamin D supplements or drinks significant amounts of vitamin D-fortified milk. A recent prospective study (the only such prospective study in the medical literature) of 87 children, some at high-risk for autism and some not, found that the children who later developed autism appeared entirely normal at 6 months of age. However, around the age of weaning, the children who later developed autism first showed signs of the disease with rapid additional impairments occurring between 14 months and 24 months—the same age many toddlers stop drinking vitamin D-enriched formula or milk and begin consuming lots of sodas and juice, which usually contain no vitamin D. Landa R, Garrett-Mayer E. Development in infants with autism spectrum disorders: a prospective study. J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2006 Jun;47(6):629–38. Northstone K, et al. Drinks consumed by 18-month-old children: are current recommendations being followed? Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Mar;56(3):236–44.

 High Sighsnootles,

I say Amen and Amen to finally having that farce of a study publicly denounced.

It has been as harmful to the understanding of Autism as that fraud Bettleheim's "Refrigerator-Mother" thesis which, believe it or not, still informs some Physicians to this very day.

If we could only find a way to turn off Jenny McCarthy.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I find it hard to believe that the initial scrutiny that accompanies all published medical articles missed the information that we are now being told has just been "discovered".

You would be surprised .... the regulations are phone book thick

 Hi jesouhaite777

Regulations may be thick.  Most lies start small and snowball into something bigger.

Grace and peace to you.

John

It's not about lies ..... it's failure to recreate an experiment over and over to prove legitimacy of a study........... too many people only look at the initial success of one study or experiment that does not hold up to serious evaluation .....the sample pool alone should have been an indicator ....

 Hi Jesouhaite777

Well, it isn't only about lies.  Lies play into it nonetheless.

Apathy is another factor I suspect.

Somebody took a short-cut and nobody called them on it.  Happens all the time in every kind of community.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Apathy can be a saving grace when one needs to br objective ....

especially when it comes to experiments.................

do you want a doctor that will faint or cry ay the sight of an injured  person?

i would rather he care less and slice straight .....

 Hi jesouhaite777,

There is a difference between discipline and apathy.

Discipline would have asked questions of the study in question.

Apathy prints it without asking questions at all.

Grace and peace to you.

John

You're oversimplyfying a rather complicated process ....

 Hi jesouhaite777,

Possibly I am.

The more complicated the process the greater the likelihood that when things go wrong they really go wrong.

And while there is a complicated process it is left up to people to implement and all the complexity in the process cannot force someone who feels like taking a short-cut from doing just that.

It wasn't the process that failed it was the guardians of the process.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Processes can fail all by themselves ..... Your interpretation is sounding more dyslexic all the time ....

 Fair enough.

That study is not in my textbook about special needs kids.  According to my text autism is caused by alcoholism on the paternal side.  The alcohol mutates the DNA only in the males and that slight mutation is responsible for autism.

The authors of the text are not dumb.  They claim this only as a theory.

that is so odd... the alcoholism is on MY side of the family, not my husbands...

While I was waiting for the dentist yesterday I read an article in Reader's Digest on How Autistm can be fought at home.

What misinformation.   The article has the tone that if you do enough early interventions the kid will grow out of it but it must be diagnosed and you must begin fighting at the age of 3 or earlier or you are too late.

While I agree with two vague ideas here.   Intervention and early intervention.  I also think that because of the location of the article working class, high school educated (or less then high school educated) parents may read the article and say "hey my son is acting like that maybe I should take him to the doctor"  That is good.

The article strongly implies that if the parents can do enough and start early enough the kids will grow out of autism.  Which I think is a false hope to give parents.

i started to read that article, and then i put it down...

i'm tired of reading articles that imply that it is my fault.

Kind of like those who need to believe that humans cannot cause climate change, or those who need to believe evolution is a hoax.

Hmm.  I'm glad to see that a study that so obviously flawed has been revoked.  Truly glad.  And yet... 

There is so much entrenchment on "sides" of this issue... either because of personal experience and grounded in emotional and life experience or professional (on both sides) digging in that there is No Other Opinion... or just a sense of dismissing someone with views different than their own.

I'll be honest.  Our 3 yr old daughter isn't vaccinated and when she was just a few months old, I posted about this here on the cafe and was really trying to open a dialogue about it because we weren't 100% clear and our doctors weren't being supportive of the measures we felt we "could" take...i.e. splitting up the pentacle vaccination into single dose instead of 5 at once - it is a legitimate request and can be accomodated but our family clinic refused because they said it was too expensive.  And when I brought it up here at the time (keep in mind I was a new Mom and sleep deprived) I felt jumped on... and judged really quickly.

We made our decision not to vaccinate AT THAT TIME based on some personal experiences (my partner works with individuals and families with autism as well as other development disabilities), we have three friends with children with autism, all with compelling before vaccines/after vaccines accounts of what happened with their kids and all the informatin from many sources we could get our hands on.

We have had a lot of good experiences with naturopathic medicine in conjunction with alopathic (regular western ) medicine.  We take our daughter for regualar checkups and are still deciding whether there is one particular vaccine we want her to get before she starts school... we're reading all the literature from the pharmecetical (sp?) company and talking to both our naturopath and our MD about it. 

And we also have a friend that actually works in a vaccine lab and she has made recommendations to us about which vaccines she considers safe enough - i.e. tested enough, long term side effect, etc  based out of her research and that lab's research. 

And a weird side note - two out of four of the family doctors in our community opted to not vaccinate their kids. 

All of this to say.. that for me as a Mom, this is an ongoing issue that I really don't want to dive into a bunker and say I know the truth.  There may well be connections to meds or vaccines or environment that we don't know.  It may be a case of genetic loading that requires some environmental stimulus to kick it off.  The body is an incredible complex organism and there is so much that still lies in the realm of mystery.

I"ve made some decisions that I'm happy with and basically I'm trying to stay open to figure out the rest as I go and try and stay as informed from many sources as I can...I want to engaged and participating both as a parent and as member of society.

Thanks for your openness, gaiagrrl.  You may want to check with your school board, though.  In Ontario at least, your child simply cannot go to school without vaccines.  I'm gathering from your post that you are not thinking about home schooling, so that may be an important factor for you to consider.

well, they can go to school, but as soon as some other kid shows up with a fever of unknown origin, they will send your kid home, just to err on the side of caution. 

and believe you me, that is most of the school year.

Ignorance is worse than any disease and spreads much faster ........

 Not vaccinating kids relies on the health of other kids to keep yours safe.  There is now a resurrgance of some diseases that we haven't seen in decades.  A few deaths although I haven't read about Canadian deaths.

With all the diseases going around schools i wouldn't send non vacinated kids to a school I would opt for home schooling if I chose to not vaccinate.

While it is common for people to point to a vacination as the cause of autism in their own child, when those kids are looked at closely they had symptoms of the spectrum disease that simply weren't picked up.

WE have all met the young baby/child who doesn't quite respond as they should.  You leave the visit and go home and wonder why that child won't play with you ro meet your eyes or chat or babble or why the parents haven't noticed that all the other babies do those things.   Given enough time and enough milestones that aren't met those children become diagnosed with autism.

The other real issue for me with parents choosing not to vaccinate is the real danger those children pose for anyone who is at all compromised with Aids, cancer, leukemia and all the other autoimmune diseases.

SO by all means choose not to vaccinate but please don't expose your child to others and don't expose others to your child.

There is now a resurrgance of some diseases that we haven't seen in decades.

And the lil germy  bastards are immune to everything .....

The following is proffered as a balm against the notion that all of the autism experience is all the time negative and something to be looked at only in the pathological or disease sense.

Take your time with these.  We are dealing with another way of life, a way of communication you may not be used to.  Don't worry, all SFW :3
 

First, two youtube videos by A M Baggs, an 'autism proponent'.
 

In My Language and Past, Present and Future
 

Here is a list of people with Autism.
 

Here is a news article aboot this fellow who goes to a conference to see the future Movers and Shakers of the world...who are autistic...
 

Here is a Wired Magazine article on the subject.

This sort of stuff connects with so many of my different interests.  Language, non-verbal communication, cognition, the Self, transhumanity, biology, the brain, spirituality, behaviour, culture, normatives...

Just a Self-writing poem,

InannaWhimsey

Hi... any child can go to school without  vaccninations if they have a signed form (i can't remember the name of it but it's a government form you can download) and notarized which has the signatures of parent(s) indicating they are not vaccinating for medical, religious or other belief. 

I gave it to the school when we pre-registered our daughter for kindgergarten and they didn't blink.  They have a number of parents who have opted out of vaccines so it just wasn't an issue.  You do, on that form, agree that if there is an outbreak of a particular illness that the vaccine would have covered, you will keep your child at home. (but i think i'd be keeping her home anyways... there was an whooping cough outbreak this past year at our school ( a strain that was NOT covered by the pertussis/whooping cough vaccine btw...) and lots of parents just kept their kids home.

i hear the concerns about if too many parents opt to not vaccinate their kids.  i do.  and yet, i have to make a decision about my child, she's my priority.  im listening to all the posts in this thread and keeping my mind open to new ideas and options...

like i said in the earlier post, we are thinking of one vaccine still... but only if the clinic will be open to dividing up the doses... we'll see what happens.  we are still in dialogue with our MD about it too...

honestly, what is it that keeps you from getting you kid vaccinated??  cause i really can't see anything that says you shouldn't.

 I'm with gaia on this to some extent, but with a more pro-vaccination stance.  If I have kids I would probably get them vaccinated for most things (I would have to look at each vaccine individually though).  Depending on what happens afterwards I would be extremely cautious about booster shots.

As for me, I'm a student in a school with about 37000 students.  Am I supposed to stay home anytime someone has an unexplained fever?  Or should I not be allowed to attend?  That seems rather intolerant and discriminatory to me.

the problem for the school is that if you haven't been vaccinated, and they don't send you home, and you get the illness, they could be legally at fault. 

its not discriminatory, its simply them ensuring the safety of their students. 

i know this because i was in a situation with my daughter where the stamp on her immunization record looked like a different date, and so they were asking me to have her completely re-immunized, which i refused.  (thankfully, the nurse at the clinic was able to prove with her records that they were misreading the date and so there were no more problems)

Reckless endangerment prevention  is not discriminatory .... one person should never endanger the lives or health of others .....