LETS SEE-MY 16 YEAR OLD-BREAKFAST AND TO SCHOOL, AFTER SCHOOL, SUPPER, BEDTIME SNACK (i HAD A NAP IN THERE TONIGHT)  so 4 hours

19 year old-3 hours and 21 year old-3 hours

Pretty typical for work days for our family. Dinner together most nights.

On school days I usually don't see Rachel (age 5) in the morning because I leave about 15 minutes before she gets up.  After school, I usually get home around 6 and she goes to bed at (brace yourself) around 10pm.  We're trying to work it back to 9 or 9:30, but somehow it always ends up being 10.  She gets up around 8:15 in the morning, so she's usually getting around 10 hours of sleep on school nights.  Although I admit that I spend a lot of that 4 hours in the evening on the computer, she's in and out of the room and we usually have at least an hour together for the whole bed time thing, which involves a mixture of bath time, stories, dancing, cuddling, etc.  I'd say we're usually "together" for about 3-4 hours every day, but truly focused on each other for at least 1 every day.

On the weekends, she usually gets up between 8:30 and 9 and I get up with her.  Jim sleeps in, often until around noon.  Once again, Rachel and I are doing our own thing for a lot of that time, but we certainly interact, talk, play together, etc.  When Jim gets up, I generally go back for a nap for a few hours.  Some time around 3 I'll get up again and Rachel and I usually have a lot of 1 on 1 time until dinner at 6 or so, then do our own thing after dinner, still with intermittent contact.  We continue the 1 hour of bed time contact on weekends, too. 

So...added up I'd say we have about 4 hours on school days and about 10 hours on weekends in which we are in the same place and awake, interacting but not necessarily totally focused on each other, and about 1 hour of focused time together on weekdays and 4 hours of focused time on weekends and holidays within that larger time frame.  Obviously the focused time varies...sometimes more, but seldom less.

I have always struggled a bit with this type of 'study', 'survey' or what ever it is called.  The personal interpretation of 'time with another' will vary a lot - do we mean just time in the same area?  Time doing a planned activity? Time chatting over kitchen chores?  Tme listening to the child's stories of their day?

The expression 'quality time' also puzzles me - whatever does it mean?  To me it was 'quality time' if I was doing my daily work and the small child was in the area doing their own thing.  This is the time when children learn how adults keep the home clean, keep everyone fed with nutritious food etc.  To others the term 'quality time'' seems to mean spending time and money simultaneously - going to the DQ or skating rink etc.

Let's see.  Mostly none or very little because my children are grown, and my grandchildren don't live with me.  But today and tomorrow Grandson is visiting while his mother is going back to work part time (after being off on an extended sick leave).  

He (and his dog) arrived around 8:00 am and it is now 10:21.

We spent the first 15 minutes or so in general greeting, getting off his jacket, hat, mittens, boots and me reminding him where they go in my house and helping him hang them up.  

He spent some time in the livingroom with his grandfather who chatted with him and then helped him set up the Wii games - and I finished my coffee, read the paper, and then played a round of golf with him on the Wii.   He cheered me on while I did the Wii fitness check, and both grandparents cheered him on while he tried it.   Then, by mutual consent we turned off the Wii and the TV.  

He lay on the floor in the kitchen talking to his dog while I tidied the kitchen and put out some bread to attract the squirrels.  Then we let the dog out of the deck to watch the squirrels and we watched from the window. 

He asked about a building toy (Crazyfort) that we keep at this house - and is playing with it by himself while I check into the Cafe.   After this we plan a walk with the dog, although it is a cold day.  Without snow there is not much to do outside.

When we get back we will have lunch together, and after a short break, we will play a table game before his mother picks him up for the dentist at around 2:00.   I'd like to work in 1/2 hour of reading and/or writing during this time but may have to wait for tomorrow when he will visit again.

How much time together? - it depends, as others have said, on what counts as time together.  Does him playing in the next room while I'm on the computer count?   Does playing a game together, or me watching him and commenting to him as he does something count?   What about him laying on the floor playing with the dogs ears while I load the dishwasher?

When my wife went to theological college, it was a mutual decision that I should park my career and become a full-time homemaker as our daughter was just two years' old.

This meant a serious finacial sacrifice, and we'd done the thing we assumed everyone on such a path would do: seel up and give away our "stuff" (though one of the the first things they gave us at the theological college/seminary was a parking permit for a car we no longer had!).

For three years, until she started school, and the further fourth year of college (our daughter's first year of school) my daughetr and I  spent every day planning "adventures". As a journalist, I'd come to know a lot of interesting people so, for the price of bus fares, we got to the zoo and museums, we visited fire stations (firefighters don't have lots of ways to kill time and they'd happily show us their gear and vehicles), we visited police stations, we went to the beach and went walking in different neighborhoods. We negotiated a few rides We met strangers and people of other cultures and sh'ed come with me once a week to the early morning fruit and vegetable auctions (a friend and I ran a vege stall at college on Fridays… it fed us through college) and she was a hit with auctioneers and the buyers who'd give her strawberrries and other fruit we couldn't afford. We made and flew kites and got into keeping tropical fish. And she helped me do laundry, housekeeping and cooking... we made up stories together and we laughed a lot. They were some of the happiest years of my life. And hers, she says.  We still enjoy a rapport that dads and daughetrs often don't find easily.

And the financial "sacrifice" was a liberating gift. It took us all much closer into the community and that face to face way of interacting that happens when you walk and take buses instaed of driving, it encouraged us to be resourceful and imaginative and celebrate small things. I would recommend spending as much time as possible wit your kids. It's invaluable: they're only young once but the relationship you form lasts forever.

Now we spend as much time as we can with our grandchildren — our grand-daughetr especially(our grandson's just 18 months' old and a bit young to stay away on his own) —  who live some distance away but spend a few days with us most months.

Thanks for all that detailed info folks, yes I guess it was a more complicated question than I thought.

We watched a documentary recently about electronics in the home over the past 40 years, and how it's changed family life. On the one hand they were saying families spent more time together in the 70's with smaller living rooms, no central heating and nothing to do upstairs, and that now the individual members of a family are all off in their own rooms playing on computers and electronic games. Then they rolled off the statistic that we spent less time "playing" with our kids in the 70's than we do now, because we were all so busy doing the wash in a twin tub, doing homework without calculators or internet, staying late at work cause we couldn't work at home, and using a pressure cooker instead of a microwave!

Oh yeah, Mists o' Spring: pretty new avatar!

Thanks!

I was born in 1973.  My mom stayed home until I was about 10 years old and my brother was 7.  She also babysat other kids--she usually had 1-3 regulars, plus she looked after other kids from time to time when the need arose, usually kids we already knew from school.  She was also one of those moms who volunteered at the school all the time.  She was on every field trip and she'd skate with us on skating days in the winter, too.  I know we were together for an hour every morning, at least half an hour at lunch and from 3:30 until at least 7 every night, usually more like 9 (some nights she'd go out to play bingo).  During that time she was cooking, cleaning, doing laundry and all kinds of other things that I never seem to do, but I know that even though my brother and I were playing/fighting in the other room much of the time, we were still in contact with her.  I don't know if I could quantify how much time we spent really together vs. how much time we spent in the same place but essentially ignoring each other.  I will say this, though:  I think she spent more time with us than I spend with Rachel, and I think her reasons for being too busy were probably more useful than mine are!

Yeah, I think that's about right. Moms at least, spent more time with their kids in the 70's, even if it wasn't "playing". ANd when I look into history, kids had all sorts of things to learn from their parents, and they spent time learning tasks and not so much playing ping pong or dolls or whatever. Kids were out raking, planting, weeding, milking the cows, collecting eggs, learnign how to work wood and make butter, gathering firewood...

I don't know. It;s easy to put the rosy spectacles on times past. Perhaps thigns weren't better then, just different... I guess time will tell, once our kids grow up, not having had many chores to do, and having gotten play time with parents devoted to them, rather than usefull time emulating their parents or watching them run things.

And all this technology comes from humanity's tendancy to look for the easiest way of doing a thing, which isn't a bad trait because it's why we're successful as a species. There was an early hominid, that didn't evolve at all, invented no new technologies for hundreds of thousands of years. I can't rememember the name of it, but it was just another animal. Then along came Homo habilis or which ever it was, who looked for the easiest way of doing things, which freed it up to learn new things in it's spare time, and so we evolved. But where is this evolutionary trait leading us?

When my kids were little and i stopped work ( son was 1) i spent all my time with them.

not necessarily actively playing with them but facilitating, being in the room.....  Like Mike I planned each day to have trips, walks, shopping etc that were trips used to learn and have fun.

i was happy to give up my career for them and expected to go back but that never happened.  As they aged and entered school the extra time never materialized.

i was one of those moms available for trips, skating outings, track and field days.......

when i think back on my childhood, i remember back yard rinks and heading to the park to tobaggan.  I remember being gone from breakfast till dinner with a quick trip home for lunch.

i remember my mom being there all the time but not playing with her.  i remember baking with her and helping with dinner, folding laundry etc.

i remember playing in the neighbourhood every evening till one of the moms rang a bell and sent everyone home.

when my kids were little i spent alot of time on the floor doing lego, colouring, blocks, cars, books.  We spent at least  2 hours each day reading, most likely 3/4 hour at bedtime and then afternoon reading time too. 

but i think it is hard to quantify the hours, much of your time is doing tasks side by side.  when they were in school, and doing homework at the kitchen table i always sat with them to help or to write letters myself.  So with them but at the same time not playing

I was an outdoor kid when my mom was at home and a television kid after my mom and dad split and my mom began her time and half career as a teacher.  I saw my mom for an average of about two hours a day, meaning that I had visual sight of her.  I had permission to talk to her for about 20 minutes a day.   I was raised in the 60s and 70s.

So, that was a little crippling and somewhat alienating and neither was  I a big reader in those days.  I decided to spend more time with my kids and coming from the split, felt a need to heal the hole by havig kids.  So what?  My kids get me a lot; a whole lot.  We do talk and I allow them to talk back to the degree where they are making sense not just language.  So, we encourage firm discussion in the matter of disagreement . . . this is also a new feature for me between adults and children.

Yes, this all seems to fit. Too much obiedience teaches a person how to do as they are told and suppresses inginuity and a sence of discovery and problem solving.

Imagine all the problem solving you girls learned though while out on your own all day!

 Now we gotta knuckle down and get him washing dishes... it could be struggle...

As little as is allowed by law.

Really, Chansen?    And the law requires you to take your little ones out skiing, and as a proud father vidiotape them and share their pictures?   

Last night on CBC news we watched a segment about 'slow parenting' - the idea being that many parents now spend too much time with their children and micro-manage their time.  Kids are signed up for various events, driven by their parents who oversee their every move.   And the few parents arguing that kids are better off if the parents take a more hands-off approach and let the kids do things on their own.  Let them walk or ride their bikes to the swimming pool or ball park.  Let them organize their own games.  Let them go to the corner store on their own.  etc.     My husband and I almost had a fight over this.   He very much for protecting (hovering), me for letting them spread their wings.  

He pointed out that our seven year old grandson hardly does more than cross the road on his own.    I pointed out that his sister (almost 15) wouldn't know how to get from her home to town (a distance of about 20 klm) without her parent's driving her.  

But does driving a kid around, with their attention glued to their DS or texting on their cell phones constitute spending time together?   

Or does it count if a parent is at home but the child is out in the backyard, the street, or the neighbourhood digging a hole, riding a bike, exploring a creekbed, making a friend with someone on the next block?    

Where did you go?    Out.

What did you do?    Nothing.

Rather than count the minutes a parent and child spend in the same room, wouldn't it make more sense to look at the relationship between the two?   I've a suspicion that many of today's kids are hovered over but don't really have time to form relationships.  

probably not as much i should have done whenever they get into therapy as adults.

Craig, this sounds bad. You and your wife split or something?

Hmm, interesting Seeler. Yes I have heard in the media about hovering and little electro gadgets. I think I started taking the bus on my own about age 15. I think kids are maturing later nowadays, in terms of independance. I've been doing family tree, and people all seem to move out and get married around the age of 19. I remember feeling a bunch of unfullfilled potential when I was 18, like I could have been doing more, but I was still at home being the little girl, supported by my elders, and free to mess up in oh so many ways, because I didn't have enough responsibility on my shoulders.

But I supose there will always be debate over the "right way" to parent.

The only contact that really matters, I suspect, is interaction: doing stuff TOGETHER. And a very good encourager of interaction is, in my experience,  shared curiosity — actually doing, going, listening, thinking, finding out and wondering together. I've not found it THAT hard to get going… but it does take commitment and imagination.  

Taking the time, even if it costs, is the crunch. The returns, though, are wonderful.

Worse than that - we're still together.

The kids are just awful - they cry and whine all day.  And it doesn't matter how much I beat them - they just don't get any better.  Even when I threaten to send them out for adoption, they aren't happy.  What's a perfectly loving, caring father to do?

I am for the most part, a stay-at-home Mom. I love it. My husband has mental illness which definitely limits the kinds of jobs he can be successful at.  It is also a recession (so they tell us) so he is temporarily out of work. Through his disability pension I made it known that I can work part time but not full time. He is fine as  a support parent but not primary caregiver. 

Now then, I am nearly always at home for my kids.  However it is also my job to do cooking, laundry, dishes, administrative work, and oh the list goes on. My kids would like me to "Play" with them more. My husband is more the one for "Playing". By that I mean kicking the soccer ball around or going on bike rides ( I currently do not own a bike.) I got some ice skates so I can with them, something I have been meaning to do for a few years, and that gladdens me. I also managed to find a swimsuit that 'works' for me so now we can go to the pool at the rec center over winter and swim in the lake during the summer. It's a start. My eldest now knows how to play Cribbage and the second daugher can play Uno so we have that too.

Spending time with your kids can mean either being home and available to them, or doing recreational things with them. In the frontier days or even not that long ago, mom was doing much more by hand (dishes and laundry) and tending the garden and canning and what not. She didn't have the play time with her kids that she is 'expected' to have today. Yet they still had a relationship. Bonds were formed over rolling out dough, Christmas baking,  canning tomatoes and so on.  My parents didn't often 'play' with my brothers and I so perhaps that is where it comes from.

The playing seems out of place sometimes. Adults reduced to lego and colouring and dressing Barbies. I worry that it may replace child friends, or teach the kids they own us...

Thanks Mike.

Craig, Way to lay it down man! The guilt free approach!

Yes the fact that our children now feel that we are obligated to PLAY with them is a problem. Like we don't have enough pressure to be 'good parent's.  Now the kids hand us their list too! Barbies, lego, whatnot. 

I am proud to say that my eight year old learned how to blanch and peel and chop tomatoes this summer for canning salsa.  Things went very well until we got to the jalapeno peppers and even though we took precautions, gloves couldn't stop a bit of pepper from going up her nose.  So ended that session. She also helps her Dad pump gas at the gas station. 

 It is fun to pass those things on though. Teaching them how to transplant a delicate seedling into a bigger pot or the garden, water carefully from underneath and not on top, flip pancakes, roll dough, knead bread, it's a real joy.

Right now we are in the midst of the granddaddy of all learning: Potty training a toddler boy. 

Next thing will be teaching the ten year old how to check the oil in the car. 

I hope no one is implying that spending time with your kids is 'playing' with them.  Feeding, bathing, changing a baby are time spent with it.  Talking to it as it sits in the high chair in the kitchen watching you fill the dish washer is spending time with it.   Supervising toothbrushing, tucking in bed, stories and prayers are time spent together.  So is scraping carrots, dusting furniture, making beds (my grandson loved making beds together when he was a pre-schooler - the spreading the sheets, fluffing the blanket, and finally the throwing the pillows up to the head of the bed).   Watching a TV show can be together time, if both are interested.  So can reading together - or discussing a book that both have read.  And finally, playing table games and cards is something families can do together from six to sixty and beyond. 

Being in the same room but each busy texting or playing with a DS is not together time.

That's not what the judge said.

Yeah, we could tech him to check the oil, why not?! Transplanting sound much more fun than manuering, but alas I';m not even sure I know how to do that corectly! Last time I tried to transplant half the poppy the poor thing died in a couple of days. My poor Norfolk pine has brown tips too after it's replanting. (I should have waited to buy some potting soil...darn) I'm not much of a gardner...

I like that way of it too Seeler.

Craig... what judge? What's going on?

Hey Elanorgold, I was talking about teaching our ten year old DAUGHTER to check the oil, hahahahaha!   Incidentally it will be ME teaching her, as my husband is not car savvy.

Nothing. I don't know any judges. I'm just having fun with the topic.

Knowing my children, I fully expect to be on a first name basis with a judge before long.

My children are grown . . . but as I think bad to their childhoods I think I played a lot or did a lot of activities with my children.

When they were little I spent time playing with them on the floor . . . cars, transformers, cut-outs, dolls (had a boy and a girl . . . they were 7 years apart).

In the summer time at the cabin we spent a lot of time swimming and playing outdoor games like ball, frisbee, etc.  We spent a lot of time playing board games and cards.  We spent a lot of time reading together.  We had "sleepovers" in the living room.  We played a lot of our own "made up" games that I'm sure other people thought were silly :)  Their dad did a lot of the water sports with them such as skiing, boating, etc.  I spent more time with them playing and doing things as I was a stay-at-home mom.

In the winter we played board games.  Personal computers were out and we had one so I spent time with my son with that, and played Barbies with my daughter.

As my son was older than my daughter we had special "tv" time later in the evening for 1/2 hour - visiting and chatting during the show and in commercials.

We also spent time with the children taking them to, watching, coaching, being leaders in their activities over the years - hockey, bowling, curling, brownies, school activities.

I miss those years :) !

My children also spent time on their own - either with friends or doing activities on their own . . . while I did spend time doing things with them, they also took time to do things on their own.

LOL! Way to go Trish! I remember my Dad trying to teach me about how cars work when I was 17. I understood a bit of it.

Sounds like you'll be a wonderful grandma Beloved.

Thanks Elanorgold . . . there may be grandchildren someday, there may not be . . . but there will always be someone else's grandchildren if I don't have any of my own .

Seeler:  I'm surprised you would say that is not together time.   

I am struggling with this thread, as I am on the road so much right now, and not at home

Over Christmas time was spent together...didn't leave the house that much..whether it be one of us on one couch reading, and the other reading on other....or the three of us gaming on different games, but stopping to shareinformation or point out stuff...we were together.  Those were important times of valuing the stuff the other one found interesting   We watched movies, cooked food, ate food, purged clothes --- basically lived our lives and spent time..and that was important.

Today, though, I was a bit down. I got home late last night, and my youngest is usually still up....but he was asleep  My  oldest was in bed, husband was asleep.   I had a hair appt, so only saw my oldest for a bit before he went to the gym, and also am off to see Dad shortly...and everyone has plans for tonight.alll headed in different directions.

but...here's the but

After the haircut, i decided to go to the mall to shop for shoes.  I had just left the store, when my oldest came up from behind and asked me a question. Neither of us knew the other was there  He could have just as easily bailed having seen his mom in the mall   What followed was wonderful.  We went for a coffee, had a wonderful conversation that weabed through many parts of life....then he was going for a bathing suit, and i ended going with him to get it...(though he wouldn't let me pay for it -- strong independent streak), then....he selected appropriate shoes for me for the gym, and helped by some other stuff for me.  It was a magical hour.

It dawned on me, that though our time is not always plenty, we truly like and love each other and apreciate spending time.  

that was a wonderful gift

Awww Pinga, most moms would do almost anything for a wonderful visit like that with their son(s).  How blessed you are/were . . . and him too . . . as one day, many many years down the road . . . that will be a happy memory for him.  As I know how much I value times together like that with my son, I am overjoyed with happiness for you!

When my son was home for NY's we went to Walmart to exchane a present and we had lunch and shopped for about an hour (my daughter and sis were with us).  Even just walking around the store one has conversations that they might not have by intentionally sitting down and having them .

Pinga - sounds like a great time with your son.  Things like that happen spontaneously - they are gifts.  

I know that people can be together and companionable when doing different things I often read while Seelerman is watching sports on TV, but we are aware of each other.  I read something interesting and I make a comment.  A commercial comes on and he goes to the kitchen for a snack and brings me something too. 

What annoys me, and what I was referring to is when people get so wrapped up in their own little world that they ignor everybody else.   Grandson wants to go on a trip.  We pick him up and strap him into his booster seat and he reaches for his DS.  I try to talk about where we are going, what we will see, what he is looking forward to.  He doesn't answer.  I call his name, get his attention.  He lifts his head briefly, answers in one word, and then goes back to his game.   I point out a covered bridge, or a herd of cows, or a train (we don't have trains in our city).  He can't be bothered looking because he is so engrossed in trying to get Mario through a maze.   That's not together time.

Granddaughter phones from the school and asks if I will pick her up - she has cramps (this is a real problem that she is seeing a doctor about).   So I drop everything and go to get her.  She grabs and afghan and goes into the bedroom - I'm fine with that.  Two hours later she comes out and sits down.  I try to start a conversation.  She doesn't answer.  I look over.  She is texting her friends and I realize that school got out five minutes ago.    Just a sentence "Grammy, give me a minute.  I have to find out what our history assignment is." would have suficed.  But she texts for awhile, then asks if she can watch TV until Mom picks her up. 

That is not together time.   Other than being the chauffeur, I don't matter.  That's the impresssion they give.   And I don't like it.

Seeler - did YOU write that or did I?  It sounds very familiar.  Actually, I saw a great lessening of this type of behavior when I shared how it made me feel.  Sometimes we just don't recognise the humanity of the person in front of us and need to be reminded.