Why not take some courses in religion to see if you are interested in the topics you'll be expected to have knowledge in.
I'm afraid you may be running on emotions and while it is a "call" of sorts, it is also a job and going to school is part of the journey (in my opinion).

Hi, gracey...

Talk with the minister, or with the congregation's governing body (sometimes called the Session, or the Board, or the Council).

Along with some people form Presbytery, they'll set up a "Discernment Committee" - a few people from the congregation and presbytery who, over about a year, will explore a varity of faith questions with you... all leading towards, "What kind of ministry am I called to? What I'm doing right now, as a member of the congregation - some other kind of lay ministry, or one of the 'ordered' streams? Is the United Church the community with whom God is calling me to serve?"

The other thing I'd suggest... chat with people who you trust. Listen to their questions. Chat with God.

Most of all... have fun! The exploration of who we are and where we're going has its ups and downs - but it's also enlivining!

Blessings on your journey!

You can also check the United Church's website, which describes the different types of ministries. I believe the link is Ministry and Personnel.

Vancouver School of Theology and the Centre for Christian Studies in Winnipeg have interesting web sites which list their programs of study and can be food for thought about the various opportuniites in lay or ordained ministry that are out there.

It's an exciting time for you.....all the best on that!

I see this a lot..that the church makes people feel "special" or needed/wanted. I tend to think that it fulfills a basic part of human nature which is that we think of ourselves as more special than others. Parents do the same for their children of course, their kids are always "the smartest" etc etc.

Atheisto...

I'm not getting it. Can you help me to understand how such an exploration connects with "think[ing] of ourselves as more special than others"? Thanks!

Following a "call" makes us think that we are destined for higher things perhaps. Distinguishes us from the millions of other human beings?

The reality is that we are just one of those millions of human beings. No more special than anyone else, calling or not.

If you really want to stand out from the crowd and answer a calling it takes a little more than membership of a religious organisation.

I agree, ribott, following a call doesn't make a person "special".

I wonder, Atheisto, if part of your concern about churches making people feel better than others might be attributable to "churchspeak"? What I mean is, when you're a Christian, you experience a Higher Power that is central to your life, and at times when you feel drawn or compelled towards to certain field or job or whatever, you tend to think of it as a "calling" from this Higher Power.

In secular speech, a similar experience might be talked about as having a passion for something, or a drive, or following your heart.

So when we hear that gracey has a calling to ministry, to me it means that she is being drawn out of where she is now in her life, to explore where her gifts might be best used in the world; for her, she wants to find her calling in the church.

It's just another example of how different people experience their realities in different ways - not a group of people who think they're better than everybody else. (Although there's always people in the church and without who are going to think that, anyway, and that's their problem!)

My own theory is that the church is a place for some people to feel more than just a cog in a wheel.

This fits with that theory.

I dunno, Atheisto... I don't think I feel 'special'.

Different? Well, sometimes I get the sense that I've found a sense of home or a sense that, 'yeah, this is what I'm supposed to be doing', then there are other times I'm much more "Hey, God... WTF?" (Yeah, there are other times, that I'm, "Hey,. ribott... WTF?")

Somebody (Socrates, maybe?) is reported to have said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." For me, the kind of 'discernment' that gracey is talking about is a kind of life-examination. In this case it has a specific faith component - about leadership in a religious context.

But, I believe that all of us - of whatever faith-understanding - could benefit from such exploration.

Examining your life is important..yes of course it is. I did say "some" people in my comment.

I think truly making a difference in life means a lot of very hard work and true leadership is something other than being the loudest voice in the choir.

Both of these can and are often done outside of a religious setting.

Actually it's an interesting point.

Does call come from within ourselves? Or does it come from some other place?

I think that the call is when we recognize within ourselves the gifts that we have for a certain profession, or activity, i.e. ministry within the church, or nursing, or baking, or child care, or teaching, or cleaning, etc.

We all need people to be excellent in these roles. And when one truly follows their calling, excellent things happen.

Far too often, people do come to ministry after flailing through life and find that they are embraced, given status and power within the church, and all of a sudden are important. (Atheisto makes a good point there.) There are far too many clergy in this category, and whether you will admit it or not, we all know people like this.

I think call comes from within. And because we are following are truest gifts, we are strengthened by God to do the work we are about.

Atheisot wrote:
"Examining your life is important..yes of course it is. I did say "some" people in my comment."

You did - and I really appreciate that. I apologize if I came down heavy.

Atheisto wrote:
"I think truly making a difference in life means a lot of very hard work and true leadership is something other than being the loudest voice in the choir."

Amen, friend! I think (well, I hope - you'd have to ask the people I'm a part of) that the leadership I offer is different from being the loudest voice in the choir. Using that metaphor its kind of like being a "section leader" in a choir. Sometimes I have responsibility for helping in my 'section' to get organized. Usually I have to make sure I know my music, because I've accepted the responsibility to be the 'shoulder' on which some of the others can lean. Oft times, I've done a bit more training. Usually, I have to listen to what the rest of the choir members are saying - and, if we can't figure it out together, we go to the conductor to get some guidance. But, in the end, I take my direction from the conductor, like everyone else in the choir.

Atheisto wrote:
"Both of these can and are often done outside of a religious setting."

They can and they are... many of us within a religious setting benefit from taking part in explorations that are outside of a religious framework.

I wonder if vice-versa could be true as well?

Love the metaphor, ribott! Good, thought-provoking discussion - thanks, atheisto, for the challenging questions. I'm embarking being a member of a discernment committee, so this is good food for my thought and the future conversations we will have as a committee.

Gracy,

You need to spend some time discerning what this call is. Being called to work for God can mean a lot of things. There are so many opportunities for service and ministry, a great many of which don't involve moving forward with becoming a professional pastor or layperson. Ordained ministry (in the United Church) is a very specific calling that requires a lot of schooling (a bachelor degree in any subject plus a four-year Masters of Divinity program that includes a year of internship). I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Diaconal ministry has similar requirements.

It is interesting that you mention feeling 'restricted' in terms of a calling to ministry while growing up a Catholic Church. I'm a new Catholic, and so far, it seems like the only thing that I can't do is become a Priest or Deacon... essentially the 'professional pastor' roles. Women are very activly involved in parish leadership, outreach and Christian education programs. The serve as alter girls, prayer leaders, cantors and readers of scripture.

This discussion is getting to the heart of what it means to be "called" as a spiritual experience and as a tenet of faith. It's great that Atheisto has been so willing to raise these important questions; often in "churchspeak" we end up using words in shorthand or code. The result is that from a denotative standpoint, we are saying only half of what we mean.

Atheisto, for me your questions serve not to dismiss, undermine, or negate a theology of call, but to refine it and make sure that we are responsible when we express ourselves in this area.

One element of my faith is that God is calling all of us, all the time, in certain directions as opposed to others. When we talk about "being called to (designated) ministry" we mean that God is calling us (or me) in that direction instead of in other directions. It doesn't mean that I have "a call" and no one else does; it means simply that ministry is MY calling. Your calling is your own, as mine is my own. Our task as spiritually aware people is to "discern" God's call in our lives, with the help and support of the folks around us.

My father is "called" to be a farmer, though he never expresses it that way. When I hear his stories about this vocation through the filter of my faith experiences, I recognize the call of God in his life, which is the call to work on the land and produce food for the world. My call is no more or less "special" than his - except in the sense that God loves us as individuals and knows our hearts one by one.

I'm not in ministry to feel special. If that was my motivation, there would definitely be easier ways to acheive it.

Gracey, the advice everyone has given you is top-notch. I would just add that this online community is another place where you can find support if you need. The call to (designated) ministry comes differently to everyone, and for some of us we spend a lot of time examining the call and realizing that designated ministry is not for us, and in fact we're called to a greater involvement in the church or some lay ministry in the community. And that's the call of God also, no more or less special; just different.

You follow the call by being a god-damn hippie. That's how.

Back in my "god-damn hippie" days ( I'm assuming there was a tongue deeply in cheek there ) we called it "following your bliss", and I believe that they are much the same.

The place I worked closed down in 93, and my bliss was to turn the computer programming I had done for a dozen years for fun into a profession. Wince then there have been a lot of ups and downs ( can we say hi-tech implosion of 2001 ) and much hard work, but much more fulfillment at work ( at some - though I hope not too much - cost to the fulfillment I had and do find as a partner and parent).

Now, my partner of 25 years is beginning the discernment process at the church she has been a deeply involved part of for the last five years. That involves trying to discern motives, expectations, goals, and most of all, what God's purpose for her is. I happen to be very doubtful that a God exists, and even more doubtful that the God described in the Christian Bible exists, BUT I see the process as one of trying to discern the way in which she can be as nurturing/valuable/loving/beneficial as possible to those around her. I hope to support her as much as I can, because I think that she would be the kind of minister that I would like to know,

Hi Gracey.

"The place God calls you to is the place where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet ""” Frederick Buechner

I'm currently in the discernment process that others have mentioned. For many years I ran in the opposite direction of where God was calling me to, but when it came to a stage that I couldn't run, couldn't hide any more I knew I had to do something. I was quite fearful of the idea of meeting with a group to discuss "my call", but the process is very different to what I had imagined. Everyone in the group answers the same questions, examines their lives, spends time discerning. I think I was visualising more an interview panel situation. I felt a tremendous amount of relief to finally enter into the discernment process. It got to a point with me that it was more difficult not to move forward. And we go into the process with open minds and hearts - not presupposing any particular outcome.

rjbott had some good advice, discernment is the first step, and it is something that we can all benefit from.

discerning

Hello everyone, and Atheisto
I liked the comparison from a religious call to secular passion - that was well said. For people who have a mature faith and have studied and learned and continue to do so (like following a Way, not ending up at a finish line) the Call is pretty profound. Yes, in a secular perspective, it is a profound sense of direction. Whatever.
For newer folks, it may still be a true call, but it involves a lot of learning and reorganizing. Many people in seminary have the ground shaken and their faith battered before they come out the other side stronger. Sometimes they drop out.
Belonging in a church can be very fulfilling, it might be just a safe place when you didn't fit other places, it can be a habit. For people truly called to ministry (go through the discernment process!!) it can be amazing, and draining all at once.
No doubt it is a place of regular people doing regular things, but good can come from it. Just like any organization, political device, school or whatever.
Now, good comes from a lot of places, many are not churches. Find what works for you and make a difference!!!!

---- origionally posted by LadyIslay -----

It is interesting that you mention feeling 'restricted' in terms of a calling to ministry while growing up a Catholic Church. I'm a new Catholic, and so far, it seems like the only thing that I can't do is become a Priest or Deacon... essentially the 'professional pastor' roles. Women are very activly involved in parish leadership, outreach and Christian education programs. The serve as alter girls, prayer leaders, cantors and readers of scripture.
_________________________________________________

i feel the same way as gracey, actually... as a member of the catholic church, i always knew that i was limited, simply because i lacked a penis. there was no way that i would EVER be able to lead a congregation, or attain the highest order in the church, that of the pope, simply because i was a woman.

the priests all said the same thing... 'you aren't unequal, there are lots of things you can do!!' but come on, really... if there is never any chance that a woman could ever be the pope, simply because she is a woman, how can you tell me that women are equal???

i appreciate that not every woman in the catholic church feels the same way i do, and thats okay. if you find that the catholic church is a place where you feel closest to god, and feel called, then that is where you need to be.

I think MadMonk made a really important point: "I think call comes from within. And because we are following are truest gifts, we are strengthened by God to do the work we are about." A calling doesn't make us more important than other people. A calling is about being called "to serve" and that's an important distinction.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God, your playing small doesn't serve the world.
There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.
You were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
It is not just in some of us, it's in everyone.
And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

These words were written by Marianne Williamson, and spoken at some point by Nelson Mandela, but I am told that they were not part of his Inauguration Speech, which I had always believed to be the case.

In these words I find my sense of call, and a discernment process, whether it be within the church context or secular, and if entered into with honesty and an open heart will enable us to discover where our true gifts lie and challenge us to shine brightly. It is not, in my estimation a case of raising a 'select few' above the crowd, but rather challenging each of us to find our own calling, and we ought to celebrate whenever someone engages in the process.

My partner is a teacher, and an excellent teacher. It is her calling, her vocation. It is not mine.

I am a minister, and I believe myself to be an excellent minister. And, as a teacher's task is to facilitate learning and to help students discover their own gifts, and to invite students to be each others teachers, so, the role of a minister, particularly within the Reformed Tradition, is to help the members of the congregation discover their own gifts for ministry, and invite them to minister to each other and to the wider community. 'The greatest of all will be servant to all.'

Ask God to reveal to you any gift you might have. God says, let no man take your crown. This implies you have a crown to lose. You most certainly do have a crown to lose. Let God guide you through prayer. Eschew blind guides. They are taking themselves to destruction and will have no compunctions about taking you with them. Be very very careful who you listen to. And consider what Paul says. Follow a man only if that man is in Christ. The Old Testament puts it more starkly. Cursed is a man who puts his trust in another man. Pray out loud in the name of Jesus. Not in the name of His mother or anybody else. In the name of Jesus. Out loud in your private space.

The very first thing I would do on this woud be to pray to Jesus and ask Him what your gifts are and where it is He wants you to go. I found this always worked for me. As your waiting for the answer , enjoy yourself each day you are in church , and God will lead you into your calling, but we must have faith and patients to wait such things out, it seems so many people want everything right now and God I found out doesnt work that way.
I pray gracey that God gives you everything you need to learn the way to your vision, I pray He will quicken the answers to your prayers, show you , what your gifts are and directions they will take you. May he give you peace, love, joy, laughter, healing, wisdom and knowledge in the scriptures. God will give us all things, amen and amen , In Jesus name I pray , In Jesus Love bygraceiam.

I used to be a catholic (which means universal) until I had a life and death situation concerning emotions of the heart. When I called out from the heart I experienced a specific spiritual revival! It came in the form of a revelation produced by the Holy Spirit of which I did not know existed. If you have been visited by the Holy Spirit, there will be no doubt of your calling or destiny. Just let the Spirit take over and claim your inheritance to it in Jesus' Name.

My journey started 22 years ago, and I receive daily visitations because I'm completely surrendered to our Triune God

Hi R22Alist - nice to meet you - this is an old post, but interesting that you found it.

Right now that's what I'm trying to do...

At my Bible group with other Mom's I was able to figure out why I felt the way I did for so long, and why things are happening right now.

If the Lord has a calling for you (which he does) you'll discover it. You won't need to follow it, you'll just end up doing it... make sense? Mind you, the Devil will try to ruin your plans, but don't let him... Have faith in the Lord and follow Him.

For me, it's becoming a nurse, hopefully a NICU nurse... All things in my life have pointed to that...