MikePaterson's picture

MikePaterson

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A mistake to turn the clocks back?

Is it a mistake to put the clocks back in the fall?

From 'The Scotsman':

CHILD obesity could be reduced if clocks do not go back in winter, according to a study. Researchers said children are at their most physically active on longer days.

 

They said their findings adds evidence in favour of a Daylight Saving Bill which could bring the UK into line with Central European Time (CET) for a three-year trial period.

Scientists at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine said children aged eight to 11 were most active between 5pm and 8pm during lighter evenings.

They measured the body movements of 325 children in Hertfordshire in their daily routine for 817 days over the four seasons and found children were most active on days with 14 or more hours of daylight.

Authors of the study, published in the Journal of Physical Activity and Health, said that the trend remained constant, regardless of the weather.

On long days, the children spent 22 per cent of their time taking part in “out-of-home play” in afternoons and early evenings, while the figure decreased to 13 per cent when the day became shorter.

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Mendalla's picture

Mendalla

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The problem in northern latitudes is that even manipulating the time using changes to DST isn't going to solve the basic problem that we just don't get 14 hours of daylight for about half the year regardless of how we mess with the clocks. For instance, here in London (which really isn't that far North) even without falling the clocks back, it would still be dark at 5:00pm starting in late November or so until maybe February and they identified 5-8pm as the key time for kids in that age group. Scotland is actually even further North, I believe (I seem to recall them being at Ottawa or even Moscow latitudes depending where in Scotland you are). Messing with DST has other effects (on sleep, shift work, etc.) so you can't take one reason for changing it in isolation. There needs to be other compelling reasons.

 

Getting kids into indoor activities (not fancy sports leagues, just fun indoor active play) and having more free or affordable indoor activities (badminton clubs, pickup volleyball or basketball clubs, open swims and skates at local facilities, and so on) is likely going to do more good than messing with the time some more. Of course, that's feasible in cities of London (or even Waterloo) size or larger that have plenty of municipal facilities to support this. What do people in smaller places that don't have a lot of these facilities do?

 

Mendalla

 

qwerty's picture

qwerty

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Contrary to what seems to be suggested in the medical journal report, adjusting the clock back by one hour does not change the length of the day!  If you don't believe me try this experiment.  Take the battery out of your watch so that it stops completely.  At the end of your day consult the news or weather service and get the sunrise/sunset times.  Do this several days in a row.  You will find that the length of the days remains substantially the same and seems entirely unaffected by the status of your watch..  I have carried on this experiment several times and although the findings are relatively consistent I have noticed a slight anomaly in that the days leading up to December 21st seem to shorten slightly each day.  This led me to form a theory of "time leakage" but then I discovered that after December 21 the days appear to get slightly longer.  I now think that there must be some sort of "tidal effect" at work that produces an ebb and flow in the length of days.  I am presently investigating ways in which the moon might produce this.  

 

When I have found something more conclusive from my investigtions I will report my further findings back to you here at wondercafe.

MikePaterson's picture

MikePaterson

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Mendalla: Scotland has less winter sunlight than most of populated Canada... which is why I thought this might be relevant here.

 

Qwerty: All of what you say is true, and your experinmental impulses are admirable. But what you are talking about is rather different from the effect that's beig discussed in relation to kids' activity levels  — turning the clock back an hour adds an hour of after-school  daylight. 

 

Central European Standard Time would add another hour.

 

seeler's picture

seeler

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Oh for the good old days!!!!   We never messed with the clocks (only city people did).  Trains ran on standard time (God's time).  Cows were milked on standard time.  Infants were kept on schedule.  It was only when we had to go into the city that it got confusing, trying to convert daylight time into God's time. 

 

As for playing outdoors - dusk and the early evening darkness were the best times to play.   In spring and summer, the plagues of blackflies disappeared with the sun.  Someone would put on a light in their backyard - hide-and-seek, kick the can, and other games - home base in the lighted circle and hiding places in the shadows.  Fall - bonfires, toasted marshmellows, singsongs.   Winter - after supper, taking our sleds and climbing the hill through the field and up into the woods, following the logging trail - lit by flashlights, or more often simply by the light of the moon shining on the snow.  And our eyes, adjusting to the dim light, picked out landmarks and showed us where the trail led.   And year round, a canopy of stars - the milky way, and sometimes making a wish on a falling star.   Or skating - on the rink beside the station - the men would put up a string of lights for us.   Or on the lake, with nature's light supplemented by a bonfire, built by the teens on the shore.     We didn't need light to play outdoors.

 

But in the morning - one year the teachers at the regional school in the village tried to get the school on daylight time.   The rural people rose up.  "No way," one of the farmers shouted at a parent teacher meeting.  "There is no way I will get my kids up an hour early to stand at the end of the lane in the cold and dark waiting for the school bus. "  

 

But I've been told - times have changed.

 

EasternOrthodox's picture

EasternOrthodox

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I always hate it when the clocks go back.  It really feels like winter (even in Victoria).

seeler's picture

seeler

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The hours of sunshine remain the same.  What you lose at one end you gain at the other.    Evening comes earlier - so does morning.  Get up - get going.   Too dark to take a walk after supper - why not take it in the morning before leaving for work - watch the sun rise as you go out to meet it.    Live in the daylight hours, relax in the twilight and sleep in the dark. 

 

It isn't the clock that robs us of our sunshine - its the rotation and 'slant' of the earth around the sun.

 

Days are short in these climes - make the most of them.  

 

 

naman's picture

naman

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Back in 1957 Saskatchewan deciced to stay on daylight saving time year round. Been so long ago that daylight saving time is viewed as standard time and many of the younger people think that we are missing out on daylight saving time.

 

When I started school in 1947, there was no such thing as a school bus, even the schools in towns had a barn for the where the kids who lived on farms relatively close tied up their horses. By the time I finished school in 1959 the country schools were pretty well all closed and the children were mostly going by school bus to the school in then nearest town.

 

What does switching from horse transportation have to do with an extra hour of daylight after school?  Well the roads were very poor when the school bus system was started and some of the kids still had to walk a mile to catch the school bus on a more reliable road. Parents were worried and meetings with the new larger school unit officials were held.

 

One school board official said that not setting the clocks back would mean that some kids would have to leave home in the morning while it was dark and the kids  still might get lost.

One mother said that if her kids got lost in the morning darkness it would be light by the time she went out look for them.

 

It is a bit more complicated than that. In theory the east half of Saskatchewan should be on Manitoba time and the west half on Alberta time.

carolla's picture

carolla

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When I worked at summer camp years ago, we had "camp time" and "people time".  In July, the camp clocks changed by 1.5 hours to allow it to get dark EARLIER - campfire is more fun when it's dark!  Then in August, as daylight naturally began to wane, we were just 1.0 hours different.  The most confusion occured on visitor's day!   The first few days of camp were also a bit of a challenge for my 7 year old campers - who were waking up way too early!!  Perhaps the excitement was also a factor tho :)

seeler's picture

seeler

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Carolla - seem sensible.  Live according to your body clock or by the sun -active during the day, relaxing in the evening, sleeping - repeat cycle.  Not by the clock telling you when its time to get up and go to bed.   I can see the confusion though when contacting the outside world.   Somebody has to run into town for milk or bread or craft supplies - what time is it there?  Will the stores be open?  or will we be too early or too late?  

 

 

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