Wellllll, I do think they are offensive and not very welcoming of your grandchildren. I think that kids learn by seeing and by talking. I think that these rules could be instituted in a more loving and kind manner.I have 7 Grandchildren and have never encountered a reason for any of this.

Hi PaulFDorian - welcome to Wondercafe ... I don't think I've seen posts from you before.  

I'm guessing that there must be lots of background story leading up to your plan for posting these house rules - which it seems are directed toward the children/grandchildren.   Would you remind other friends of your expectations in such a way - or would you use a different approach?

Personally, I do find it to be a harsh approach ... but that's me, and not knowing your context.  I do see from your profile that you've had a few marriages, and have a bunch of kids & grandkids - maybe you're dealing with people from a variety of  backgrounds with various behaviours that you're trying to modify via the list.  Somehow though, personal teaching and interaction would seem more suited developing family harmony than posting a list of rules & eliminating any violators from contact.

Here's an example from my own life ... my parents had a cottage where we all spent a great deal of time together - my kids essentially grew up there & it was definitely a second home for them where they were loved & welcomed & relaxed.  After my mom died, Dad set up all kinds of inhospitable 'rules' that the kids had to suddenly abide by (in their early teen years) - similar to yours about not touching anything, eating, drinking etc. - despite the fact we would always bring food for the weekend, do most of the cooking & clean-up etc.  So the place where we had always been joyful & loving & comfortable in, spending time together as a family, became seriously stressful.  We stopped going - it was no fun at all, just pressure to "behave or else".   My dad didn't get it.  He wanted "respect" from others, but did not offer any in return - the relationship became virtually unsustainable. 

I guess I offer that, because I see such similarity.  It's been a great sadness for my family.   So I would urge you to think very carefully about what it is you want to accomplish with your sign.  It may have unexpected effects, and you may lose much more than you hope to gain.  Family ... it's a challenge sometimes. 

Thank you Crazyheart for your comments. I am very glad that you have never encountered a reason for something like my sign. I agree that children (and adults too) learn by seeing and by talking. I hope that perhaps you can understand that the sign becomes necessary when grandchildren do not respect others and are hurtful, when they do treat evrything as though it could belong to them and when they systematically lie. I am a grandparent, I will try to show by example, I will try help the parents in the raising of their children but, at the end od the day, I am not the one responsible for the behaviour. What I do want to be able to do with my grandchildren is enjoy them and have fun with them. Make snow angels and throw the autumn leaves in a pile and jump in it. I do n ot want to be the old curmudgeon who is always telling "No". I believe that children should be treated as inexperienced human beings who do not know all the rules yet and by allowing them to know the rules, I acknowledge and respect them as individuals. The rules apply to adults too. by the way. Break any of them and even my pastor would not be welcome.

pauldorion, I neglected to welcome you to WonderCafe. I hope we will hear more from you.

As Carolla says families can be a challenge and as I reflect on your post, there seems to be much more to the story than I first read.I am sure that you are doing what you feel is best for you and the children and grandchildren.  I am sorry I have no great words of wisdom  but there are a lot on WonderCafe who will come forward and offer you  what they can.

Thanks Crazyheart but in fact you welcomed me to WonderCafe back in June or July 2007.

All wisdom comes from the heart and all wisdom is great so thanks again for sharing

Carolla

Thanks, I appreciate the story about your "family cottage" and it does give me something to think about.

Thanks Saul-now-Paul

The rules apply especially to Grandma and grandpa. The rules, in my mind and as my purpose, are so that whoever may become aware or what I think is acceptable behaviour and perhaps I do have a very heavy-handed way of going about it but that is the idea behind this post: to get other points of view and to allow me to think about other ways of doing this. Again thanks

heh, I don't know, i think by putting up the sign, you break rule #1.

How can this be anything but hurtful?

By putting up the sign you probably encourage #2.  ...especially if you ask for opinions.

hmm..if there is a bowl of ju-jubes on the coffeetable, and I have one, is that stealing? ....what about #2. what about a glass of water? 

I personally would find it extremely offensive.  Instead of dealing with an individual, you are painting all guests into the same category requiring overbearing rules...

yuck!

I'm not going to be particularly judgemental, as I tend to be a bit of a cranky old man myself.

I think what you are trying to do is admirable.

I think the way you are trying to do it needs a little polish.

Ease up a little, and let your wisdom be the signpost that teaches values to your grandchildren. No sign ever told a good bedtime story.

Hello, PaulFDorion, and welcome!

My only advice would be to try to rephrase in the positive, to encourage good behaviour instead of discouraging poor behaviour.  And I know it is difficult (I have three rambunctious kids!) to create healthy boundaries while maintaining unconditional love, believe me!  So this is what I would say:

-----------------

Welcome to Grandma and Grandpa's house!  We are so happy that you are here!  Since we all want to enjoy our visit, we are asking everyone who comes into our space to agree that we will all:

1.  Care for each other's feelings, bodies, and possessions.

2.  Tell the truth.

3.  Ask permission when we want to use something that does not belong to us.

If this covenant gets broken along the way, as it probably will from time to time, let's make sure we talk it out, forgive each other, and start again.  Remembering that we love each other will help a lot!

---------------

Good luck!
Shalom!

I once went to a family reunion - big crowd, one house but out in the country with lots of space for tenting and trailers, and a motel nearby for those who don't sleep outdoors.  Fine - we all knew in advance that only a few could be accommodated in the house.

When we arrived there was a big sign at the door.  Did it say WELCOME  ?

No, it said something like "House off limits.  Portable toilets have been supplied for your convenience."

Now, I could understand if somewhere under a WELCOME sign there was a note saying "Due to limited capacity of our septic system, we request that those who feel comfortable doing so please use the portable toilet supplied for your convenience, or the basement washroom.  Please help us conserve water."

But to be told first off "Use the Portable Toilet" was rude.  It didn't make me feel welcome.

Greetings!

I've never heard of "rules" actually being posted in a home for visitors (except for the "if it's yellow, let it mellow . . ." in an outhouse). 

I have heard of families sitting together and discussing rules for the household . . . for those that live in the house.  It sounds to me like your grandchildren are guests in your home, not residents.  You do not give the ages of the grandchildren.  To me, if they are children, they need to be disciplined and corrected by their parents, and perhaps a chat with the parents would help.  If they are teenagers perhaps you need to chat with them about what is acceptable.

While I'm not sure I like the posting of the rules, I do like the clergychikita put them in the positive - "do" instead of "don't".

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

Thanks Pinga

Your comments give me some very valid points to consider.

Thanks Witch

You are quite right. I do need to ease up and the "sign" does need some polish.

Thanks Clergychikita

Perhaps the best way, so far, to present my ideas. Very appreciated

Thanks for Sharing Seeler.

I can see your point of view although I can also see the point of view of whoever put the sign up.

I don't think that I would be able to as "politically Correct" as to write up the sign the way that you would have wrote it but that's me. Of course, I would not have been offended in the first place but I admit that I am a curmongeonly old fart, oops I mean a bag of wind!

Your comments will help me rethink how I will re-write the "sign". Thanks

Thanks Beloved

What you write is full of good sense and love. I admit to getting hot under the collar and venting perhaps a bit too harshly.

I would not do this.

No one would read it any way and the way to encourage children to follow your rules is consistency and demonstration.

Grandparents always have different rules than parents.  You are not the first.

My kids totally knew what they could do at Grandmas house and even the differences between the two sets of grandparents.

It sounds like you think your grand kids are a bit out of control.

SO help them understand some potieness rules.

When they do something you don't like explain why.

help them know that "here we say please and thankyou, excuse me....." 

I guess it boils down to how welcome you want them to feel in your home.

Hi Paul,

I sense that you are really a nice guy, and your sign says what you wish you could say if you weren't.

Spoil your grandkids,  If you feel like somebody took something they shouldn't have - let it go.  You can always go over to their place and get back a few beer from their fridge to make up for it.

Nothing could bug your kids more than knowing their kids would rather be with you than with them.

 We live in an affordable houseing complex.  We have a little patch of concrete outside our French doors, a bit of grass and a dividing fence on each side from our nieghbor. Other than that, it opens straight onto a common grassy area for kids to play. That doesn't give you a whole lot of privacy. During the summer I spent alot of time talking to kids about boundaries. 

If it isn't yours DON'T TOUCH IT. Ask first. If you are allowed to borrow it, put it back when you are done.

Don't stare in our window. (I am seeing why everyone keeps their vertical blinds shut, although it is gloomy.)

Alot of it is the "do unto others" principal, as far as personal property goes.  

But a person's grandkids, that requires a slightly more familial approach. You catch more flies with honey than you do vingear. Rewording is definitley a must, as clergychikita says.

 Maybe even better would be a way to talk to the kids to get them to help make up some rules.  How to do this is the hard part.  In a youth group, kids who make up the rules have some ownership of them.  And I find that in my house, when we have a problem, I get input from my kids on an acceptable rule to fix it.

So, these are your grandkids.  Are they rambunctious, rude & generally feeling free to flake out at your house?  I'd congratulate you to a point, because maybe it means they have a sense of family there, and of unconditional love.  Good stuff.

If they are rude and a pain in the butt, something needs to happen.  
How about a sign that hangs on the fridge, like the "if you break it, fix it, if you make a mess, clean it up" style.  Or one with an old saying like, "Do unto others...".  Then you can let them get used to seeing it around, and call their attention to it when you need to.  By saying "The rule says xyz..." instead of "My Rule says...", you call them into a world of responsibility outside of your loving haven, and don't make yourself into a bad guy.  

I hear you.  I've had old friends bring their kids to my house and ransack it.  However, it ain't the kids' fault.  The parents needed a wake-up call big time.  I just didn't invite them back (for a long time anyway).