i have been a mom now for almost 12 years, so i think i can help!!! i also have fostered 11 children, so i have a lot of experience with toddlers and preschoolers!!

what can i help you with??

been there, done that, understand completely. I was a stay at home mom when my kids were little now i am a working mom and i work with lots of new moms. I am not an expert by any means but you need to know you are not alone. We have all felt this way. It is really hard to not loose your temper and if you think it is happening you make sure your kids are safe and remove yourself from the situation so you can cool off. Then you can go back and deal calmly. Sometimes we just have to put our housework aside and play with our kids. They are what is important after all. The fact that you asked the question shows how much you care about them and how you want the best for them. You are doing a great job, remember that and then take care of yourself. Do something for yourself at least once a week so that you can fill up your cup again so you can give them even more love and attention becasue that is really all they want.
Hope that helps.

three is a bad age... i found three FAR worse than the supposedly 'terrible twos'.

busyoakmom; Thank you for doing the most important job in society, raising your children. My wife and I have three grown children and six grandkids to date. One thing that we found helpful was to spend some quality time one on one with each child. The older one has had to deal with a younger sibling taking away her 'only child' status so she needs to know that she is loved as much as before. Second children often are challenging because they come into a situation where they have to compete from day one, so they do. Our second child was like that and drove my stay-at-home wife crazy until we created some special time for her too. She became the most helpful and cooperative one of the three after she got more one on one and knew that she was loved too. Get a sitter if necessary so you can take each child separately for special outings and make sure that each knows that they will get their turn. Also as mentioned earlier, give them both your attention and leave the housework for later (when your husband can help). And I agree wholeheartedly with the advice to look after yourself by taking time off from them. Good luck

Thanks to everyone for their kind words and support. I was having a 'pull my hair out ' day today so I dropped the kids off at my mother-in-laws (which I seldom do) and did some errands.

It's odd - when the kids are at school or with a sitter, I always feel like I need to 'catch up' on something. It is difficult to bring them places together (one on one is okay) because it usually ends up with one of them picking on the other. I think I need to carve out more 'me' time without feeling guilty !

Sibling rivalry is one of the toughest things. I guess the biggest piece of advice is how to give both enough attention, and get them to cooperate? I know it won't always happen - but I am desperate for peace in the house ! Does anyone have effective discipline techniques other than the usual 'time out' or lose a priveledge? Neither of these seem to work with my two.

Much love to all.

you are not a referee. thats my strategy.
if they are fighting over something, then they both loose whatever it is. simple as that... dont get started trying to figure out who said what or started what. just take it away, and tell them they can have it back when they figure out a way that they can play with it together. let THEM figure it out, cause you know as soon as you say 'well you should do it this way' you are gonna have a lot of whining on your hands. not to mention it gets them WORKING TOGETHER, which is what you want.

try that, and let me know if it works!!!

I always found fire and brimstone to work rather well....failing that I hear Ritalin isn't too bad.

LOL!!!

ritalin isn't the drug of choice anymore... we've moved onto dexedrine and adderoll now. come on god, get with the program.

Yes...but...if you have any Ritalin left over you can push it to the kids on the estate for a small profit!

I found that "3" was "2" but with attitude!!! Just wait a year, it WILL get easier.

busyoakmom wrote: "I think I need to carve out more 'me' time without feeling guilty !"

EZ Advice: There might be aUnited Church in your area that has group for young moms. Perhaps a play group. Important to recharge the batteries. The vacuuming can wait another day.

Don't know if the "oak" in your name means you live in Oakville. St. John's United has some small groups (www.stjohnsunited.ca). St. Paul's United has a group that goes bowling each Wednesday night.

There's a place called Five Oaks near Paris, ON. They have a Day Away retreat (www.fiveoaks.on.ca)

wow, thanks ez, i didn't know there was a facility like five oaks!! it looks awesome... is there something similar to that closer to ottawa?? i like the sound of the family retreat weekend... it would be great if it was closer, though...

Thanks EZ - I belong to a United Church, not any that you mentioned though. But in all honestly my 'recharging the batteries' wouldn't come in the form of a playgroup - I need time AWAY from my little angels !
I do go out once per month for a nice evening with the ladies in my neighbourhood, and believe me I look forward to it. I would love to go out more with both kids if I knew the squabbling wouldn't be an issue ! LOL !

Ever had one of your kids having a drop down, screaming tantrum at Zellers? Then wanted to leave but the other kid cries and says 'you promised we'd look for a new puzzle !'

Parenting is the ultimate test. I think doing our best is the best we can hope for.

The story goes like this.....

A stay at home mom friend of mine was having one of those weeks (her situation is similar to yours) and was venting to one of the nice old ladies at church. You know the ones, short, grey hair, neatly dressed and always ready with a smile and a cup of coffee after church. After listening to my friends woes she said.

"I broke dishes. I had a room downstairs with a stock of plates I would buy at garage sales. When I needed to vent I would go down there and smash plates until I felt better."

And she turned out to be the sweetest lady and the kids are ok too.

Take care of yourself. (Let your husband clean up the plates. I find it helpful to have some gauge of how my stay at home wife's day has been so I know when I need to put on that little extra care.)

for the tantrums in zellers, a friend of mine recommends this, and it works very well...

she carries a big paper sign in her purse that is yellow and has, in big black letters...
'caution... do not disturb. tantrum in progress'. whenever her kid tantrumed, she would put that down on the floor beside him, and walk a short distance away and wait it out with her other kid. people would come by, see the sign, and laugh. which was definetly NOT the response the kid was looking for. so, he'd get up, and they would carry on. after two episodes like this, she would just have to reach into her purse for the sign, and the kid would stop... he HATED the sign because people would just laugh at him.

i strongly recommend that.

and never feel like other parents are criticizing you for your tantruming toddler, we've all been there, done that... i usually see knowing nods from other parents whenever a kid starts tantruming!!!

sighsnootles asked: "is there something similar to that closer to ottawa??"

EZ Answer: Five Oaks is the closest United Church educational centre to you. They are listed at http://www.united-church.ca/ministry/education/centres/

There are United Church camps in your area. Visit http://www.uccancamping.org/CMPLST/MandOconf.html

busyoakmom asked: "Ever had one of your kids having a drop down, screaming tantrum at Zellers?"

EZ Answer: Yes. Every time we pass the aisle with the mixed nuts. They cry, "I want some nuts" and I respond, "I do too. I really wish we could have those nuts. I wish you could have those nuts. Sorry."

At the earliest sign of a tantrum I bend down and --in my firmest voice-- whisper in their ear, "If you think that just because we are in public you can act this way, you a mistaken. This is inappropriate, and when we get home there will be consequences."

Because I am the adult, smarter than the little squirrels, I can predict they will try a tantrum. So before we enter the store (or go dumpster hopping), I use that firm voice and clearly state my expectations, including, "When I say no in the store, I expect you to listen the first time."

love Arthur's advice - I used to kick empty cardboard boxes in the basement - cheaper than plates and you can really wing them across the room if you feel the urge... then I would climb back upstairs with this angelic smile on my face - memories, sigh :)

Sighs, the squirrel's on the ball (nut?). There is unfortunately not a family retreat centre up our way. A number of the local camps, however, have weekends in the spring where they ask for volunteers to come and do some maintenance work. Camp Lau-ren for sure, but I think some of the others do as well.

Hey BusyOak - Sounds familiar - though a couple of years ago now for us. Stay with it ... parenting is exhausting but awesome work. God loves you for it. On the tantrum thing I must say I REALLY REALLY REALLY disagree with sighs' advice (a sign that makes people laugh = humiliation) and with EZ (threats) - both are slow souldestroyers for kids (and adults too). Tantrums are some of the worst things ... but you just have to ride it out and let them thrash - just help them not to hurt themselves as they freak out. YOU just keep breathing and wait. Smile. Love them. It will pass. Life is long. They will need your love afterwards (and you may need a nap) so hugs are the order of the day. In public, if it was super awkward to just let them have a tantrum right there, I firmly removed them (to the car, to grass outside, etc.) and waited. Reasoning is useless. They can't control themselves when there's such a loss of control.

The BEST discipline technique EVER EVER EVER is called 1-2-3 Magic and there's a book by the same name. http://www.parentmagic.com/ It TOTALLY works.

God bless ... keep breathing ... it's gonna be OK ...

gracerules wrote: "I REALLY REALLY REALLY disagree with sighs' advice (a sign that makes people laugh = humiliation) and with EZ (threats) "

EZ Answer: Disagreement is wonderful. To clarify, there is a difference between threats and consequences. The application of natural consequences can be, in some contexts (like public grocery store), deferred. Otherwise, the tantrum becomes leverage.

actually, it does work. and i had that technique validated by three behaviour management professionals, who all thought it was great.

but like ez squirrel said, disagreement is inevitable, and i'm glad that you feel comfortable enough here to say that you think its a bad idea!!! i think you gotta go with what you feel comfortable with and what works for you.

i also second the '1-2-3- magic!!' suggestion... that program was a lifesaver when my first kid turned 3!!!

When the kids are little, it does seem overwhelming a lot of the time. They need so much hands-on time from you, from dressing to eating to bathing, and then when you add on those times when you have to deal with whining and tantrums, etc - it can just make you want to run for the hills!! Hang in there, we all feel overwhelmed at times. (I have 3 teenagers now, I feel overwhelmed for entirely different reasons, but won't go into that now!) It really will get better.

We also used 1-2-3 Magic as mentioned in one of the other posts - saved our sanity! One thing it mentions is that many parents use too many words and too much emotion when the kids start acting up. 1-2-3 Magic shows you a simple plan to follow when the kids start behaving in a way that you want them to stop! Follow the plan and be consistent and it really works! We had much more peace after following this.

Also, do you have a friend that you could swap babysitting time with? You take her kids on Tuesday morning, and she takes yours on Thursday morning kind of deal?

Getting a bedtime routine in place can really help carve out some time for you in the evening. Follow the same pattern every night, and they'll know what to expect, you'll have less discussion & shenanigans, and you'll know that after 8:00 (or whatever time you set) you can have some time to yourself. This is when I really got to recharge my batteries.

One other thing I did with my kids when they were little was I had a 'Quiet Time' after lunch every day. The youngest had a nap then, but the other two were too old for naps, so they went to their rooms and had to play a quiet activity for 45 minutes. They actually came to look forward to it, and would look at books or play with lego or make puzzles, or some other quiet activity.

I agree with one of the other posts that setting the expectations can really forestall any issues (e.g. tell them before they go in the store what your plans are while you're there - I'm going to look at towels, then at snow boots, and then we'll get a little treat (or not) so they know what to expect and you don't get into a battle of wills in there). If the tantrum starts, I would leave everything there and walk out of the store carrying the screaming child if necessary. (I don't think the sign was too bad an idea, either).

Hope this helps.

oh my gosh, the swapping babysitting with another parent is a LIFESAVER!!! definetly a good idea, look into that as well.

busyoakmom:

I'm sure you got some help here. One thing I often hear parents say long after their children have left the roost is that they wish they could have lightened up more, played with their kids and had fun! Sometimes parents are so busy feeling responsible and enforcing discipline that they forget 'the housework can wait'......'the ceiling won't collapse if the kids don't eat their veggies'. You know ....that kind of thing. They wish they would have danced , sang more songs, and laughed along with their kids more often! It would have made for an all round happier household.

Just my 2 cents worth....

I'm a big fan of Neufeld's Hold Onto your Children. It's all about attachment - parenting by working on the bond, rather than behavioral technique. I don't have any interest in helping him sell books but its been fantastic. It's just a particular orientation to parenting that has worked tremendously well (and I still turn to it when I get stuck).

Hi, my children (4 little darlings) are all grown up. When you mention you child dropping to the floor in Zellers, I remember my oldest daughter doing something similar in the Saan store when she was 3-4 years old. Her older brother was in Kindergarten thus I only had one child with me and another on the way. I was so mad. I casually (if you can casually do anything with a screaming kicking child) walked out of the store dragging this SWEET little girl with everyone watching me. O--O--H !! How imbarasing! Well, we made it to the car and she went into it and that is where she stayed until I finished shopping. She never did it again. She didn't like being on her own. As you prbably are wondering how I could leave her alone in the car, I was close by to keep a close eye on her. I have always found (I'm not an expert) that when you threaten the child with punishment follow through. Why should they listen when Mom/Dad say something but don't keep their word.

I remember being... Oh I don't know... 11 maybe? (I say as if it was so long ago), and going to a cottage with a family (All the parentals were friends before the kids and such). Basically for the kids, there was me at 11, my sister at 6, their daughter at 5 and their son, maybe 1.

Anyway, I distinctly remember that they used to give Time-outs to their daughter when she was having a tantrum. Because they weren't at home time out was moved to the car.
I'd be reading on one end of the cottage and could hear her ~screaming~ in the driveway that was quite a walk away (Through the cottage, down the stairs, and a bit down the way). I don't mean to say that everyone was so far away from her, merely that ~I~ was and could hear here clearly.

That's just what I thought of. That girl had lungs man!

Hi Busyoakmom. Wow, reading your post I felt like I was reading my life - except my husband sometimes gets home by 7:45. I have 2 boys 3 & 5. Of course, acting out is part of the package but they are pretty good guys. I think I'm a pretty fun mom, but that being said I'm very strict - I don't hit or anything, but just don't let them bend rules or breaking will be next. Ex. if my 5 year old gets out of his chair at dinner right away I strictly speak to him. Sometimes he'll say "I just want a hug" (oh, they are good!!!) but even then I swallow my emotions and keep the line. Punishments in our house are sitting on the bottom step, or if they don't do that, going to their room (just for 4 or 5 min), putting a toy they are fighting over in the garage or basement, or my most successful - putting an X on the calendar which means no TV for the day (or next day if it is already evening).
But EVERY kid is different, what works for one...
Fabulous book to recommend (I borrowed fr. library) called "Kids are Worth It" by Barbara Coloroso. She's got some thought provoking methods and philosophies and does come from a Christian perspective though that is not the focus of the book.
xo

"Ever had one of your kids having a drop down, screaming tantrum at Zellers? Then wanted to leave but the other kid cries and says 'you promised we'd look for a new puzzle !''
LOL! YES, but it was in Party City! "I WANT SPIDERMAN PLATES!!!", then the other crying when I go to leave because he wanted a toy. Both kids screaming and bawling, I just smiled with clenched teeth and hauled them out of the store. Once outside they both screamed and bawled in shock that we left, finally calm, then we had lots of hugs and kisses. I laid out the rules after they were calm and said if they didn't follow we would go home NOW. Went back in after abt 10 min and they were angels. Now I can laugh thinking of how the entire store was watching wide eyed as I hauled these two little fireballs out, but at the time I was thinking VERY un-motherly thoughts!!!

'kids are worth it' is an amazing book as well, but i found that it was aimed at older children, and i found it frustrating. '1-2-3-magic!' worked wonders for me when my kids were young, and then i gradually found that i was just naturally moving into a more 'kids are worth it' style of discipline. but barbara coloroso is an amazing role model for parents, i think!!

We used 1-2-3 Magic as well but we found the flaw was that our kids wouldn't comply until we got to "2". I found Barbara Coloroso more effective. Also "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka has been indispensible. Her work on helping you understand your kids temperment as well as your own has greatly helped us figure out the best way to approach problems with our kids. I also really like Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish's "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk". It's simple, effective, respectful and easy to remember.

Ultimately you have to figure out what works for you and your kids. And remember that the same thing might not work with each of your kids. Different temperments mean different kinds of push back and different approaches.

The one book I've read that most greatly influenced my approach to parenting was "Parenting as a Spiritual Journey". (sorry, I don't have the auther with me at the moment) It really helped me realise that all the struggle and growth and joy and learning involved in parenting IS my spiritual journey in this phase of my life.

I raised two alone. While at the same time:

- working full time
- going to school full time
- running the local suicide prevention centre
- sharing in the daycare pool
- working many hours a week on father's rights

Plus, plus, plus ad naseum...

All with none of the helps or supports, they were all female only.

I figured I was raising kids, not clean houses. I was raising boys, not a perfect lawn.

Bah! Take the time the kids need and don't sweat the rest of it. It'll all work out in the end.

If you want some advice, I would highly recommend any of Barbara Coloroso's books...Kids are Worth It, Just Because It's Not Wrong, Doesn't Make It Right...They're all easy to understand, practical and great for parents and professionals. You can use them for any age from infancy to teens. Good luck with your children.

Busyoakmom - Been there, lived through it .. although sometimes it felt dubious that we all might! Our kids are now young adults ... we're all still growing & figuring it out!

In our home, I ALWAYS insisted on 'quiet time' after lunch for about an hour. Kids could nap, or read,or play quietly alone, but they had to stay on their beds & be quiet. It gave me a sanity break - a quiet cup of tea, a nap myself, telephone call to a friend or whatever - NOT time for chores! Carried this through to vacations at the cottage etc. - even our guests had to comply! ;-)

Definitely try to get "1-2-3 Magic" - excellent method - worked like a charm when consistently applied - and for WAY longer than I would have imagined. I got it on video format long ago from the public library.

Penelope Leach's book - "Your Baby & Child, Birth to Age 5" was a great help to me - this British author helps us understand a bit of what might be going on from the child's perspective - lots of great insights.

The Gessell Institute publishing amazing books - "Your 3 Year Old", "Your 4 year old" etc. - I got them all. I swore they were looking in my windows because the behavioural descriptors were so accurate. These really helped me to know what was just age-appropriate behaviour - that would soon pass - or what to actually get worried about. Perspective really can calm things down.

There are some days that you think will never end. Then suddenly it's 10 years later - and you're wondering where did that time go???
Thinking of you ... glad you asked. C.

I join the long line of mom's who have been there. Mine are now 16 and 19.

I had a couple of tricks that I used with my kids.

Afternoon naps: Everyone on their beds for an hour after lunch. You can read, play quietly with toys, colour or whatever but you must stay on your bed till I get you. It was a great hour for me, sometimes I rested sometimes I had a cup of tea.

I never was a referree. If they were fighting they were both sent to their rooms. I have watched nieces and nephews play the "he hit me first game" and of course it is an impossibilty to really know what is going on.

At a very young age my kids did chores. Set the table, clear the plates, tidy the books, put away toys....... It was just the way life was and it seemed to work.

my kids are great friends

"My kids are the best gift from God, and I love them more than anything but sometimes they just MAKE ME CRAZY !"

I just joined into the discussion today and was going to post a similar message! I have a 5 year old and a 6 month old and a husband who usually doesn't get home until 7:30pm. The bedtimes for the kids are usually around 6:30 for the baby and 7pm for my little girl. For the last 3 days, both kids have been sick with a nasty cold...I'm going a bit stir-crazy.

Do you feel like the mommy part of you has totally taken over your identity? The part of me that wants to do the things I love, always takes the back seat to care for my kids and husband. Don't get me wrong, I love them immensely, but lately it seems like too much.

I have let the laundry/vaccuming/etc. go (very hard for a type A like me), but still feel there is so much more I SHOULD do instead of what I want to do. (Feeling guilty sitting here typing an email instead of making a homemade snack for after-school time.)

I also go out with other neighbourhood mommies one night a month, but the other days of the month are feeling a bit overwhelming.

Any ideas, besides prayer and taking a LOT of deep breaths, about easing the resentfulness I feel that my husband gets to "escape" to work and get paid for it and easing the guilt that I must be a terrible mom to feel resentful that don't get to do what I want (I sound like a complaining 5 year old!)? I know I don't want to go back teaching as I really do want to enjoy my kids...I just don't want to feel so lost doing it.

Welcome to wondercafe Tryingtofindme!
I'm glad you're here. This is a good place to be for many people, and I suspect it will be a good place for you too. You can come to your computer whenever convenient, log on and friends are here. There are many of us who have been where you are now. We understand much of what you are saying. The least we can do is give you a wonderhug. A big wonderhug to you now.

First, let me tell you that you are good stuff. We don't hear that enough do we? Well, you're hearing it now. I remember being home with my kids and feeling completely overwhelmed. It felt like I never got anything accomplished. Then when I reached for the phone for 5 minutes of adult conversation, it never failed, someone would start screaming in the background. I'm tired just remembering it!

I remember one Christmas telling my husband that I was going to a staff party. I worked hard at home and I deserved a staff party. So I got dressed up and we went out for dinner. Besides, I was the ECE, teacher, nurse, custodian, cook, money advisor, social director, secretary etc. etc.....I was the whole staff. My husband was just the seasonal help at my workplace, he was lucky I invited him to come along!

It sounds like a play group/ Moms & Tots would be a great idea for you. It would give your children time with other kids, which gives you the insentive to go. Once you're there you will realize it's as good, if not better, for you to be there. Connecting with other moms is really helpful I found.

But if getting out to an organized group doesn't work for you, just going to the park where other parents are sharing benches & discussion is great. The weather is getting warmer, get out of the house & breathe in the new day!

Hang in there! You're great! We're here for you.

One more hug before I sign off!

Hi busymom,

Thank you for the wonderhug. I really needed it.

I've been trying to get to the mom & tot groups at our church and others in the community, but haven't had much luck. The main problem is they are in the mornings and my daughter goes to school in the afternoon. The mom & tot groups here are only for little ones.

If the weather ever improves here, I'm planning to spend A LOT of time outside at parks and playgrounds and get some of the much needed adult coversation while the kids play.

When my daughter was little, I ran a playgroup of 15 moms and babies. It was tons of fun. Most of those parents had their second babies 2 or 3 years ago, so they are at different stages and aren't much into playgroups anymore. I need to find another group of people who have little ones again.

Thank you again for the support. It's nice not to feel alone!