My grandson is in his second year at Beavers.  Initially he seemed to be happy, being part of a group with some school mates and his father helping out.  This year his father hasn't been able to volunteer due to other demands, so he just drops him off and picks him up.  And grandson is bored and doesn't want to go to the meetings although he still enjoys the occasional outing.   His parents are thinking of letting him drop out at the end of the season.

I remember that Seelerboy joined Cubs many years ago with great excitement and enthusiasm, expecting to go on hikes, learn out-doors things like starting a fire and cooking weiners over an open flame, or doing crafts from wood and nature - and being bored with sitting around the scout hall, doing nothing - and being expected to wear a uniform that included short pants and long sox in the winter when he has to wade snow to get to and from the meetings.   And often feeling picked on and ignored by the leaders and the favourite boys. 

"You seemed to enjoy Brownies and Guides though,"  I told Seelergirl. 

"Mom, I hated it.  I just stayed because my friends were there." 

Then I remembered a few incidents.  Her father was working away from home for several months, I was sick (in bed at home, then in hospital).  She missed some meetings.  When I got better she was able to go more regularly.  At parents night:  the other girls got badges for this and that:  she got very few - there isn't a badge for getting herself up, her and her brother getting their breakfast, checking on their mother and bringing her a glass of juice, then getting themselves off to school to repeat at noonhour and after school.  A lot more responsibility than sewing on a button.   Then the girls gave out gifts they had made for their parents.  Each girl but Seelergirl gave their mother a plaque with their handprint in plaster, spray painted with gold.  Seelergirl whispered, embarrassed:  "I wanted to make you one Mom but they did that one day that I wasn't here, and they wouldn't let me afterwards."

We moved.  Different city, different group - Guides now.  Seelergirl came home from a meeting and burst into tears.  Of the eight girls in her class, seven had been picked for some special honor - Seelergirl (who was rather shy) was the only one left out.   I phoned the leader - a girl in her upper teens and let her know how upset my girl was.  She was sorry but there was nothing she could do - there were only seven positions so she had had to choose.  She would consider Seelergirl next year.   

"But after I phoned, things got better, didn't they."   "No Mom.  I just stopped telling you.  Because the next meeting that leader was really mean to me and told me that she didn't appreciate me crying to my mother."  

Were my kids experiences unique or have others had bad experiences?

Incidently Seelergirl really enjoyed CGIT, and Seelerboy enjoyed a youth group he joined at a local Baptist church his friends attended.

I loved brownies.  They changed the age group when I was in it so it was weird when the younger girls came in and I felt really old, LOL.  I loved getting badges and I tried to go for the most obscure ones that I could find and worked on them outside of the group meetings.  I started guides but could only go to half the meetings  because swimming was on the same night and I lost interest.

My son was in cubs and he loved it.  He liked the social aspect more and didn't work on any badges outside of the ones they did in the meetings.  He loved going to the little camp they had in the woods.  He enjoyed scouts at first but the outings were a little too much for him and then he started taking viola on the same night and could only go to half the meetings and he dropped it this year.

My children had good experiences in Beavers. Cub/ Scouts and sparks/Brownie/Guides

Happy memories for all of us.

I have 2 sons with a daughter in between.

Scouts is co-ed but has a diffeernce focus that Guiding.  ie Bownies would sing songs and do a craft cubs would pull each other around gym on carpet squares

Our scout group was very family oriented and all family members were welcome-many camps attended by all of us.

One highlight for me was pulling the leaders around the lake on HUGE (Like 8 feet long and 4 feet wide) homemade toboggan by driving the subburban. -earlier all the kids had a ride but at much lower speeds.

Guiding-I attended several of these camps as well-much greater emphasis on crafts but my daughter realy enjoyed it (a little harder on me as I needed childcare for the boys-but it worked).

In retrospect I'll credit scouting with giving my oldest such an interest in "Male" things. He has outfitted his own utility trailer, his 4x4 has winches installed etc. Things he didn't get from me!

my kids didn't do either but the feelings your kids have expressed resonate.

On paper lots of things seem fun but they are often just more rules and structure after a day of school.

My son did karate and really enjoyed that.  Working towards a goal of the next belt, a multiaged experience with teens as well as younger boys and girls.  ALso coed which was unusual for lots of sports.

my daughter did ballet and it really appealed to her.  Perhaps for the same reason.  THe ability to work towards your own goals within a group.  Plus the experience of performing as part of a class.

then they both did wilderness camps in Algonquin which did give them hands on fire building and canoeing plus in some case life long friends who didn't live near by.

I cant say enough good things about wilderness camps  Learning to care for not only your self but the group.  One for all and all for one thing.

plus of course a month in the fresh air.

I grew up in Guiding - I went from Brownies straight through to Rangers and had many wonderful experiences. I think it all depends on your leaders and I was fortunate to have several wonderful leaders. My Mother was also involved in Guiding (although never as my leader) so I was always aware of what was going on in the wider Guiding community. I was encouraged to apply for camps and events that involved girls from a variety of places. I had experiences that I never would have had anywhere else. I went to a provincial camp that had us travel the Alaska Highway in a school bus! I travelled to Mexico and met people from all over the world at one of Guiding's world centres. I travelled to Ontario and camped with 3000 girls from around the world. I attended a camp on Vancouver Island (before I lived here) that was held in conjunction with the Commonwealth Games - which girls from all over the Commonwealth attended - we even got to attend the Opening Ceremonies!

As an adult I decided to give back as a leader. I led a Brownie unit for several years - and had a blast. Sure there were some challenging moments - there's nothing like dealing with irate parents who try to hold you responsible for their daughter's bad behaviour! The good far outweighs the bad, however - and it is the laughter and learning that you remember.

I'm glad to hear that many of you had positive experiences.  I guess we just ran into some poor or inexperienced leaders at a time when my daughter was shy,  a bit withdrawn, worried, and needed encouragement and positive affirmation.  She still says that the most attention, and rewards, went to the girls whose parents were the most involved, or whose families had the most money.   I guess that I didn't qualify since I had a full time job, two children to divide my attention between, was chronically ill and didn't own a car - and having never been in Brownies/Guides myself I didn't know how to go about helping my child earn these badges  that so much fuss was made about.   The following year, she got lots.  Goodness she already knew how to cook a simple meal (cooking badge), sew on a button (sewing badge), help with the flower garden and answer a few questions (gardening badge), feed the kitten, collect a few post cards, ride a bike, skate, knit, etc and so on.  Nevertheless, she had no problem giving it up when in junior high, other interests took up her time.

A childhood friend of hers did stay with the movement, up through the ranks to the different coloured owls and to regional supervisor or something, while her own daughter grew up in the movement with all the advantages of an involved parent.   My daughter only runs into her occasionally at the mall.

I'm with your daughter Seeler I HATED guides.

I was in Sparks and Brownies but I don't think/remember evering doing Guides. I have some bad memories of guides camp where my mom was one of the volunteers and I wasn't allowed to be in her group/see her. I'd been camping so many times with my family that the rudimentary things we were suppose to be learning were boring and they wouldn't let me do other stuff. The meeitngs were boring, there wasn't any focus on badges and in my last year of brownies when the oldest grils were supposed to be in charge of their own little groups we joined together with another group and all the girls from that group were given the the leaderships. I don't remember liking anything about it.

Bethany - sound like my daughter's experience.  It was bad enough that she still carries those negative feelings - she doesn't brood on them, but sometimes something will trigger them.  Like me mentioning the one time I intervened.