don't.  longer response later!

I don't.  Never have spanked my children.  Physical abuse is physical abuse.

I get peeved about the "spare the rod" issue.  Shepherds used rods, or crooks to help them control their flocks.  They didn't beat the sheep with them, they guided them and led them.

To me the spare the rod spoil the child line means that a child needs your leadership and guidance, especially if they are straying.  you are to guide them back to the proper behaviour, not beat them

I personally never spanked.

Others have spanked.

As far as "spare the rod", I do not even bother interpreting it or trying to apply it.

The Bible said you could kill your child if they struck their parents, cursed them... you could stone unruly ones. there are also rules about selling your daughters and buying and beating your slaves.

Considering that, for me, what does it really matter what the Bible says? 

I won't claim to have all the answers or that I've always done everything perfectly with my daughter.  I'm sure I've made many mistakes along the way...hopefully not too many.  I've never spanked her and I think that's a good choice that I've made.  I think the best way to explain how I do things is with an example.

When Rachel was 4 we were in Walmart shortly before Christmas.  She was looking at the toys and saw a bunch of princess dresses that she fell in love with (I already had 3 of them hidden in the trunk of my car).  She wanted to buy one right there, which was very unusual.  She almost never asks for stuff when we go out (on one occasion when I offered to get her something when she was about 2, she reminded me that I had said we were just looking!)  In any case, she started to cry and was very upset about not getting the dress.  My approach was to scoop her up in my arms and comfort her, telling her that I knew she was very disappointed about not getting the dress right now, but hopefully Santa would get her one for Christmas.  She continued to wail a bit, so I kept snuggling her and telling her that I understood about being disappointed and sad and that I had felt that way before, too, and that it's not fun.  She asked when I had been disappointed before and I told her some story about wanting something and not getting it...I don't remember the details or if it was exactly 100% true in the details or not, but the heart of the story was true: I had hoped for something, I didn't get it, I felt sad, I had to cheer myself up.  We left the store with no spankings, no giving in to a tantrum and a happy mommy and child. 

Like I said, I can't claim to always be this "wise" and capable.  SOmetimes I'm tired or stressed out, occasionally I yell, but I usually try to see things from her point of view and help her learn to deal with whatever situation she's dealing with.  If she's scared, I try to explain what's happening and give her skills to be brave.  If she's sad, I try to comfort her and help her think of ways to feel better.  If she's angry, I try to redirect negative actions like hitting or throwing things to more positive actions, like punching a pillow and saying "I'm mad!" and taking deep breaths to calm down. 

My five year old is one of the best behaved children around.  She waits her turn patiently at the park, she shares with other kids readily (most of the time...she's a bit possessive sometimes), she's polite, she almost never acts up in any way, and she's generally very happy.  I'd like to take the credit for that, but I'm also very fortunate to have a relatively laid back child who wants to please me.  My approach is also made a lot easier because she's an only child.

Before I had her, I was opposed to spanking, but I thought I'd probably understand why people do it once I had a child of my own.  The opposite happened; now that I have a child of my own, I understand spanking even less. 

it's too bad that such a pleasurable experience (those who know know what i mean) can be abused in such a way...

Works for Jasper.

No spanking here.  I'm opposed to violence & aggression & do my best not to engage in it, physically, verbally or psychologically.

As for the raising a "God-fearing, obedient child" - I would HATE for my children (now young adults!)  to be God-fearing, or obedient in all matters without question.   Doesn't fit my sense of God, or my personal values.   I raised my kids to ask questions, think for themselves, reach their own decisions and learn from their mistakes.  To know God would be with them, loving them unconditionally.

oops - double post deleted.

I applaud the parenting as modelled in the movie Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_Loud_and_Incredibly_Close_(film)

One that allows children to develop, lets them fall and explore, yet keeps them safe.

The idea of using brute force on a child appalls me. 

I would be dishonest if I said that I had never resorted to it, but, it was a sign of me being out of control rather than the child.   I regret the few times it happened. 

When my two were small, I only resorted to it when I was frightened. For instance, if they darted out of my reach into danger in a parking lot or something. They were far more frightened of 'the look', which withers egos up to 50'.

My parents used force sometimes. As a 'discipline', all it ever taught me as a recipient was that older people were allowed to hit younger people, which struck me as strange.

Spare the rod and spoil the child?

No, definitely not! The medical injuries of light spanking may not be serious, but the pyschological damages surely are severe.

welcome, sboes, by the way.

I wonder if others are like me.

I believe in the individuals ability to work in a faith community having independent understanding of God, Jesus, Spirit...

In my work.I feel it is important that one is engaged in a project because you understand it, or trust in those who do understand it...and so are able to offer the best of who you are to the endpoint.

My experiences teach me that fear of hurt (physical or mental) causes people to be less than their potential. 

I wonder, if those who threaten their children, who spank, and the churches that support it, are doing so as they would prefer that independent thought not thrive in their children and eventually,their parishioners.

Automatons.....may be their goal

Like Bettethered Idid spank my daughter when she did something that was dangerous again mostly because I was afraid for her safety. The one time I slapped her in anger I felt so bad and immediately appologized. We have a very close relationship now she is 22.

I would say don't. I don't have kids. I got the wooden spoon as a kid, and the back of a hairbrush--it was legal then, and terrifying.  It was the "children should be seen but not heard" bootcamp. My mom regrets it and wouldn't do it now if she could do it over. I don't think installing terror in children will help them in any way. Parents need to talk to kids, and listen to them, help them understand things.

My mom believed in spanking as a parenting tool. She also had trouble with appropriate responses due to mental illness. It meant she abused. It did not come from a place of wanting to inflict harm. It came from her inability to control herself, her inapproproate reactions and responses.... being someone who could not spank but thought she should.

I recall the day she stopped hitting me. We were in the school office. I was being expelled while still in elementary school. I had hurt someone badly. The principal stepped out for paperwork. Mom was yelling some question like, "why do you fight"  or "why do you act this way" or yelling a statement like "I taught you better.." or something... 
I said through tears (upset about hurting someone, loving school, disappinting my mom, getting in trouble at school...) "you taught me to hit people who bother me, piss me off, hurt me, make me sad... you never taught me how not to".

I asked mom about it this morning, she said that even in the fog of mental illness she realized if she did not teach me I would wind up in prison or really hurt my own children.

I will never spank my children (when I have them). As my major in university is child studies, I have read many articles about spanking and the results of using this form of punishment.

For example here is one of the first articles I just found in a quick journal article search:

Relationships between parents’ use of corporal punishment and their children's endorsement of spanking and hitting other children
 

Dominique A. Simons; Sandy K. Wurtele
 

Abstract
Objectives

To explore the intergenerational cycle of violence, the present study examined the relationship between parental approval and children's approval of corporal punishment (CP) and the subsequent relationship between children's CP experience and preference for hitting to resolve interpersonal conflict.

Method

Participants consisted of 102 families, parents, and children, ages 3–7 years old. Parents were assessed on their reported practices and beliefs about corporal punishment using 3 self-report measures. Fifty-four boys and 48 girls were interviewed by researchers to assess their approval of spanking and hitting.

Results

Children whose parents approved of and used CP were more likely to endorse hitting as a strategy for resolving interpersonal conflicts with peers and siblings. Frequent spanking was the strongest predictor of children's acceptance of aggressive problem solving, above and beyond parental acceptance, parental experience of CP, and familial demographics.

Conclusions

Findings supported an intergenerational cycle of violence; parents who experienced frequent corporal punishment during childhood perceived its use as acceptable and frequently spanked their children. These children, in turn, advocated that spanking be used as a disciplinary method and preferred aggressive conflict resolution strategies with peers and siblings. These findings support an additional “side effect of spanking;” when parents use CP it teaches their children that hitting is an acceptable means of dealing with conflict.

Practice implications

Practitioners should encourage parents to avoid using CP as a disciplinary method which could lead to a change in the attitudes and behaviors of the next generation of parents

Anybody who uses this form of dicsipline should really question their own ability to deal with their children, and learn about more effective ways to punish and reward. A quick little, pianless tap on the butt to get your childs attention is okay, but the intention should not be to inflict pain to punish a child. IMO

My stepson was 16 when his mother and I got married. I have never spanked him. I never will.

I spanked my children when they were little.  I wish now that I didn't.  But it was an accepted method of childrearing sixty years ago.  I'd been spanked.  Everyone I knew had been.   Actually, then and looking back, I didn't mind it nearly as much as some forms of punishment I've heard others suggest - like 'grounding', or being denied something I really looked forward to, or shamed or yelled at.  

Still I wish that I hadn't spanked my children.  I wish that I could have been a perfect, kind, patient, wise parent who always knew how to relate to my children and always had the physical, emotional, and financial resources to do so.   I  don't think that my children have held it against me.  And I know that my daughter, on rare occasions, spanked her children.

I never connected it with the Bible or my religion though.  If anything it seems to me that Jesus love for the children, and his teaching about kindness, patience, mercy, forgiveness would have discouraged physical punishment.   I did not believe in 'spare the rod and spoil the child'.   With me it was a cultural thing - as well as a family thing.  

I said everyone I knew was spanked.  Actually one of my friends wasn't.    We generally felt sorry for her.   It seemed that her parents never paid any attention to what she was doing and didn't care enough to guide or correct her.  We felt sorry for her.

delete - duplicate

I was raised being hit - sometimes hard enough to knock me over.  Despite wanting to raise my own without hitting - I hit (hand to padded bottom).  Not often but more often than I or the kids liked.

Mostly I hit out of exhausion and/or frustration.  I had a pack of kids, a partner who didn't help with anything other than 'fun stuff'.  I lived far from family who may have spent some time with the kids so I could take a break.  There wasn't enough spare cash to pay a babysitter.  To complicate matters my partner took the car with him to work and his hours didn't mesh well enough with the kids schedules so we could all drive him there and pick him up at the end of his shift.  Once all the kids were in school I rarely hit them.

My grandkids are not punished physically - but some of them are very badly behaved (by my standards and by there schools standards).   When I was responsible for them as preschoolers I didn't take them into stores, libraries and other places that required them to be quiet or polite.

It amazes me how differently children are raised - and most of them finish up as functioning adults!

I don't have kids, and I hope that parents know their kids best.  I don't judge parents who decide to spank nor do I judge those who decide not to spank.  I don't know what I would do as a parent, as I think it's one of those things where you can't really know until you're in the situation.

I know some great adults, well adjusted with good parental relationships. Some were spanked, some weren't.   It's all a big  ' IT DEPENDS'  to me. Too many variables.

my parents spanked so rarely that when it happened, it was a momentous event.  i still remember the time when my father got so angry/frustrated/fed up at my brother & i that he started chasing us around with a ruler...boy, did we run...we even tried the splitting up ploy, which didn't work :3

The worst thing about spanking is that it supports the notion that it is allright to use violence against people if we don't like what they do or say. It makes for a violent culture and society.

I was spanked as a child. I have never struck any of my children. My children are no worse behaved than any other and probably better than most.

Chidlresn who aren't spanked do not appear to be more ill-behaved. The difference is that none of my children fear me when I'm angry. They only respect me.

Don't.  It's a form a violence and abuse.  The older I get the more intolerant of that sort of thing I'm becoming.  We need to model effective communication and loving relationships for our children and spanking doesn't foster a loving relationship.  I'm not a big fan of yelling at kids either.  There is a better way.

Speaking as a child who was spanked fairly often, I would say that spanking is a definite no-no in my books. I think it just teaches children that violence is an acceptable way to get people to do what you want.

I am not a parent, however it seems to me that there are many effective ways to parent a child that do not involve violence. To me, spanking is abuse.

But I do think , as seeler said, that there was a time when spanking was the norm and considered something to teach children.

I too was spanked and didn't hold it against my parents or fear them.  

While I do not find that spanking is an efficient teaching method, I would not say that it is always harmful or should be banned.  ANd also, I would point out that there are far more abusive forms of punishment used in schools and homes to replace physical contact.

I've always understood the term to refer to any discipline, whether physical or not. I've only physically spanked my daughter once or twice in her life but she will have tv., computer, nook cut off for misbehavior or various other punishments more often.

I haven't spanked my kids or threatened to.  It is frustrating, trying to get them to change behaviors that one has to go over several times a day, because in the olden days in order to get the kids to stop doing something that you were role modeling, you simply hit them.

It is harder to raise children when it is up to the parent to change in order for the child to understand.  We are so exhausted already and sometimes change seems impossible.  But, we are deaing with kids - not us - I have found that simply increasing my involvement with the kids discourages their untoward behavior, but of course, time is what our culture sadistically demands in triplicate from adults in order to bring home the paycheque.

So, we are left with yelling, reprimands and stringent discipline rather than adult - child modeling & tutoring.  We  have to realize that we are following a model ourselves which has often said that the children were better kept away from adults . . . that they wouldn't be able to find themselves or explore.  There is truth to this; however, children are so in need of guidance and education that to leave them alone unguided for a length of time will lead more to abuse than to creativity.

Having said that, it is important to give kids an avenue to succeed in the world on their own.  Perhaps a small part time job or something like that.  I am sure of this.  Now, let me follow through with it!

I remember one time walking past a neighbour's place on a nice summer day.  Her two year old was playing happily with his toys, ignoring her as she sat on the front step.  Then she walked across the lawn to exchange 'the timeof day' with me.  He didn't notice for a moment but when he did, he came flying across the yard, grabbed her leg, and started pulling on her and shouting, demanding her attention.   He was not tired, hungry, hurt.  He was not deprived in any way.  He was simply jealous that she would dare to speak to someone other than him.  She gentle pulled him off her leg, and told him "Just a minute."   He pulled on her clothes.  He cried.  She gentle bent down and gave him a minute, the stood up and tried to continue her conversation.  He started pulling again.  She spoke to him again.  He calmed down until she stood up.  I offered to leave but she indicated that she wanted to talk.  He hit her.  She told me, 'just a minute' and took him back to his toys.   He followed as she came back to me and started up the conversation.  He screamed.  She scolded.  He clung.  She took him over and sat him on the step, again explaining that she was talking to her friend and would play with him in a few minutes.  He sat while she was with him and followed him back to me.  But by then I waved, "We'll talk later' and left her.  An unhappy little boy - a frustrated mother. 

I don't know what she should have done.  I know what I would have done if one of my children had behaved that way.

Sarah, your column in the National Post actually resulted in a post in my faith blog, which - since you asked, I'll reproduce below in full:

I came across a news article tonight that once again shares the distorted fundamentalist perspective on Proverbs 13:24. That's the famous "spare the rod and spoil the child" verse, although what it actually says is "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." That's the NIV version, anyway, NIV being my usual Bible of choice for study purposes.

The headline of the article was "God Wants Us To Hit Our Children: Parents." It goes on to speak of a book by a couple named Michael and Debi Pearl that apparently advocates some rather severe forms of corporal punishment beginning in infancy as appropriate methods of discipline. I confess that I haven't read the book - and I won't. It justifies the abuse of children by abusing the Scripture it claims as support for its position. I have no interest in giving the Pearls the satisfaction of a royalty payment by buying the thing. I do want to respond, though, to this ridiculous interpretation of the verse.

So many interpret that verse in a very warped manner, as if its offering permission for parents to literally beat the hell out of their kids. It does no such thing, of course. It takes a beautiful piece of imagery - the rod - and turns it into an instrument of violence. To really understand what's being said you have to keep in mind how the word is used in other places. For example, in Psalm 23 the rod is an instrument of comfort - "your rod and your staff they comfort me." It's not especially comforting if it's being used for physical punishment, but that's not how it's being used. It's a shepherd's instrument. The shepherd uses the rod to gently keep the sheep on the right path and therefore out of danger. What the shepherd does not do is beat the sheep with it. What Proverbs 13:24 is saying is that if you don't give your children proper guidance with appropriate (stress, appropriate) discipline, you're doing them a disservice. Loving parents teach and discipline their children. The use of violence isn't an appropriate or biblical method of either teaching or disciplining children, it's an admission of either failure or disinterest as a parent. Teaching children takes time and patience and love. Beating them for doing wrong simply shows weakness. Be a strong parent. Love your kids. Give them solid guidance. Take the time to teach them properly and lovingly rather than just taking the easy way out. And remember - GOD DOES NOT WANT YOU TO HIT YOUR CHILDREN!

I am firmly on the other side.  I do not believe in spanking.  I think there are other ways to get your kids to listen.  I think kids who don't listen need to be taught.  Teaching takes time.  Its easier to spank. 

I think you need to have things your child enjoys.  Like tv, gameboy, internet time, the bike, and its far more effective to take away tv for a week than get a spanking. 

Ive observed shamings, scoldings, nothing etc.  I agree that we have "bad kids" nowadays.  The behaviour at school has gotten worse.  I don;t know how many talks Ive had with older teachers who think that since the strap was taken out of the school the behaviour has gone to the dogs.

When I was a teacher I learned that positive consequences for good behaviour was more effective than negative consequences.  For example for work completed all week I would take the students bowling on Friday afternoon instead of a detention for not doing the work.  21 out of 22 got their work done.  The one who didnt stayed at school and worked in another classroom.  You might call it bribery.  I call it good teaching.  I did the same with my foster kids.  They got to go to a movie on Saturday afternoon or go to the park with me if their chores were done all week and they hadnt got into trouble at school.  I think the term is positive parenting.  As a teacher where I observed problems is the kids would skip school or do something "bad"   not only did the kids not get grounded they went to a concert week later.  Sure they got scolded but no consequences

Hi all,

Such great discussion here — thanks for weighing in. It's really helpful to hear a variety of perspectives on this issue. Still working on the story, I believe it's slated for publication in the June issue of the Observer. Will let you all know if it changes!

Best,

Sarah