Oh my!!! ... I just read on CBC that the bill passed with unaminous support!!!

WOW!!!! ..... All MPPs!!!!!!

This is a real happy day for me

Hugs

Rita

To add to your news Rita, Alberta is funding sex change surgeries starting this Friday I believe.

*happy sigh*  too cool -- i just read it -- very small changes to the code, like errata :3

i'm glad another BS (belief system) has been made into...'realer than real'?

onward transhumanism!

i look forward to in the future, when going amongst the different tribes that will be scattered across universe, some that hold neuroidentity to be sacrosanct, sapience to be sacred, being a machine to be sacred, the ability to stay within the social norms to be sacred, etc etc etc

as matter becomes life and through mind continues the endless novelty process of Being and Becoming!

Huzzah Rita!

You must be one happy lady

That is great news Rita!

Great news!

And there is a strong United Church connection to this law. It was proposed as a Private Member's Bill by The Rev. Cheri DiNovo in remembrance of her late choir director at Emmanuel Howard park United Church. It's called Toby's Law.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Ontario+amends+Human+Rights+Code+extend+protections+transgender+people/6776765/story.html.

Indeed there is such a wonderfully strong connection DKS .......

I am so very grateful .............

Hugs

Rita

so how're ya celebratin, RitaTG?

Well InannaWhimsey ...... I was so very pleased that I had contacted our local CBC radio station to congratulate them on how they reported the news and to offer myself as a resource.   The host of the show had said how he had very little knowledge and understanding of transgender people and issues.   In return I was contacted and asked for an interview.    I have just come back to my office after having done that.

It would seem my celebration is to spread more understanding and awareness.

Indeed I am blessed

Hugs

Rita

Cheers to you, Rita!  I'd love to hear that interview...will it be available other than a specific radio listening?  I'm not inside much in the summer....

This is a great start......now on the national front.....for those who aren't aware, when you board an aircraft your I.D. photo has to match who you are – your photo as to match your gender… - so for those in "transition" the government automatically won’t permit you to fly……. 

Very happy for you ,rita ,and all transgendered who are celebrating.

ah, hope I named that right. So much to learn.

What a wonderful thing to do, Rita! I am glad they took you up on your offer.

RitiaTG - way to go......thank you for doing this!!!!!!  (this should have been my first post - not my second.....see what happens when you get to be my age.....)

thank you everyone  ... and crazyheart .... you got it right.....

I will try and put a link to the audio file here.....

http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=2245860630

There ... that should do it

CBC Radio 1  Sudbury ....... Points North ... with Jason Turnbull

Thank you all for your support and interest .... it really adds quality to my life ....

Hugs to all

Rita

What a wonderful way to celebrate Rita! I will listen to that a little later tonight.

Beautifully done, Rita.  Educational and a very understanding and forgiving attitude toward the uninformed.  I learned from your interview and am very proud of you!!

thank you so much ab penny .......

I  so much want to make a positive and loving difference.....

I am so very glad it came across that way

Hugs

Rita

Rita - it's so lovely to put a voice to your name and picture. You did a wonderful job in that interview, educating us about what it is like to be you. I have a couple of friends who are also male-to-female transgendered persons and you just gave me a little more insight about what it is like to be them. The bathroom thing is something I have talked about with them. While my congregation was in the process of becoming Affirming, one of the things we did was to make one of our bathrooms officially gender-neutral. It seems like such a little thing, but my friends said it meant a lot to them.

Interesting and informative interview, Rita.

There is a thing you do very well - "treating crass with class." (We've been priviledged to see it many times here on Wondercafe).

Like all good interviews, it has left me with questions.........

What is the percentage of folks who are transgendered?

You mentioned those that are born intersexed -  but am I correct in thinking that this doesn't have to be the case? You can be, say, born physically male - but in your heart and mind be female?

You mention public washrooms.....

Would it be more difficult for transgendered males - born physically female - to use a male washroom?

(Rita, you did say in your interveiw that you welcome questions. You may be over 50 - but I'm over 60 -which means lots of questions).

You've done well - your voice and your advocacy has reached the shores of Oz.....

Finally, as most of you know, I'm always banging on about finding the courage to be your authentic self....

Rita, you've just raised the benchmark.

Pilgrims, I think you may be confusing the word intersex with transgender. I am neither intersexed nor transgendered, but I hope it's okay if I do my best to describe what they mean. Someone else, however, will have to answer your other questions!

What you described when you said, "you can be, say, born physically male - but in your heart and mind be female" was a transgendered individual. Transgenderism is all about what's going on in your mind and, as I understand it, doesn't become physical until the individual decides that changes need to occur so that who they feel like on the inside becomes who they look like on the outside. Intersexuality, on the other hand, is physical - sometimes chromosomal, sometimes anatomical. Examples would be a boy born with a much tinier than usual penis or a girl whose breasts don't develop properly.  It could also be that a person was born with an unusual combination of body parts.

I hope that helps clarify the difference.

HI Rita - I just had the opportunity to listen to your interview - great job!!!!!  Looking forward to the possibility of meeting you sometime. 

RitaTG,

listening to your interview, what a brave person you are (I can hear the tension/stress in your voice) :3

also, this proves again just HOW FRIGGIN COOL THE CBC IS; you couldn't do that with a commercial outfit I don't think

Pilgrims Progress,

it's really neat TGs and TSs -- these are people who are either:

1  People who are genuinely mentally ill (that is why there are always psychological exams) OR

2  People who are born with a soul (some special, innate essence) that is different than their body

3  People whose conception of sex & gender is so fluid as to have fun with it in varying ways

So since TG & TS are recognized by our secular medical society, here we have scientific people supporting the soul.  ITS SO FRIKKEN NEAT

Truly, though, it is best to talk to the people who are this way themselves and to be agnostic aboot it :3

Wonderful news, RitaTG.  Very happy for you and other folks. 

Thank you for your comments and questions Pilgrims Progress

.....

Now to your questions .... and I so appreciate them

Concerning the question of the prevalence of transgender persons.

The typical figures used come from studies done back in the 1960s and counted those that had had "the operation".   Those figures suggested a rate of about 1 in 10,000.   Lynn Conway .... a well respected professor that is also a transgender woman has done an analysis that suggests a rate that is more in the 1 in 1500 range.   This figure seems much more realistic to me just based on the number of people I know.  In any event the numbers are far greater than the studies from the 1960s would suggest.

......

Concerning intersexed....   Intersexed persons are born with complex genetalia and are not considered transgender persons per se.   It's not a matter of the size of sexual organs but rather a complex mixture of both or the abscence of them.   Intersexed persons may have both sets of sexual organs or in varying degrees or perhaps none at all.    The rate of intersex is about 1 in 1500 and the rate of the presence of both sexual organs being present is about 1 in 100,000.   This is in conflict with the social binary gender model.

......

Concerning what is transgenderism.......   To put it bluntly .... we are born with the typical plumbing of one gender but our heart and soul (who we are are inside our heads) is different.   This is called gender dysphoria and is also to varying degrees.

Now as to the hows and whys ..... more and more research is beginning to indicate that it seems to be a matter of brain development.   Basically we all start out with sort of a default female form and hormones trigger development that translates into the sexual differences we recognize.   The brain is "sexualized" by hormones sometime before the development of sexual organs is triggered.   If that doesn't go right then there is a mismatch between what the brain identifies as and what the body develops as ... hence my allusion to heart and soul being different.   I suppose when one really looks at it then transgenderism is really a brain expression of the intersexed condition.   In other words ... we are born that way.    Now .... we cannot change the brain and I would postulate that holds the core of personhood.   Since we cannot change the brain .... we transgender persons yearn to change our bodies to more closely match what our brains identify us as.   We do not all get to change our bodies as we would like.   Indeed the vast majority of transgender persons never get to do that.   Life is complex and the family, social, financial, and medical challenges limits our ability to achieve what many of us so yearn for.    So we have to live that in between life.   There is where the protections of law helps us so very much.   Please also understand .... gender identity is a continuum ..... not all transgender persons want "the operation".

......

Concerning transgender men and washrooms......     Washrooms ... the scary thing for all of us....   We dread having to go "in there".    This is the place where we are most likely to face severe backlash and therefore we are on our best behaviour and do not linger.   This is where the law is really going to help us. 

That transgender man having to use the "men's room".   Female plumbing and there are those stand up urnials....    Most transgender men yearn for the ability to use them just like any other guy .... but that is not to be.    Fortunately that is not the only thing a man would use a restroom for.    There are stalls ... with doors .... just like in the women's restroom.    Simply go in there .... do your business ... and that is that....    The big danger is being recognized as different and challenged because you are "not a man" and mostly it seems to take on a homophobic tone.   Men tend to be more physical ...especially if they are prone to bullying.    Here again .... the law will help set standards.

......

Thank you all so very much for your support and kind words....

I appreciate the questions and being able to share what it is like.

Our identities are our life and so very precious to us.....   Thank you all for making room for us and acknowledging us for who and what we truely are.......

This has been a strength of the UCC .... to be able to do as God does .... to look beyond the outward appearance and look at the heart....

.......

Grateful hugs to all

Rita

Very good! I hope America catches up soon.

The forces of popular American Christianity will fight that.

For example, across the border in Michigan...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/julea-ward-bill-freedom-of-conscience-act-in-michigan-house-allows-discrimination-against-gay-clients_n_1597658.html

Congratulations Rita for contacting the station and offering your services

Just one little correction to your post above.

We don't all start out female.

Until fertilization we don't exist. With fertilization we become XY or XX unless something goes wrong.

So right at fertilization the zygote is male or female. I don't think there is a clear understanding of why some fertilized eggs develope differently than expected

Someone posted about passports and the issues of not appearing like your photo.

I understand the huge issues this is for people in transition but I can't see an easy answer for this

Security demands we look like our photos. Drivers license would be another issues.

Yet my understanding is that persons undergoing a surgical change must live as the other sex for a period of time.

That leaves you in limbo for sure though unless you have a job where you travel by air all the time I guess for the rare trip one should just attempt to resemble the photo.

Rita,

Wishing to ask this delicately but not sure exactly how ...

Is there variation re: which gender(s) transgender persons and intersexed persons find themselves attracted to?

lastpointe .... thank you for your comments....

I tried to explain the start out thing by saying "sort of" in regards to how we start out.

Typically XX is female and XY is male .... but not always......   Also, as you pointed out there are chromosomal complications and there can be from just 1 to up to 5 chromosome markers.

At present there are some 54 genes that have been identified that control and shape gender characteristics.

The point is is that gender is a very complex thing even from the biological point of view.

No matter .... what is ... is ..... and regardless of the understanding of all the mechanics we still have to live our lives and society still has to live with us.

Here is where the recognition in law is going to be such a big help.   Now we have the right to participate in society as equals.    Having that right stated is going to make it much easier for those that were rather unsure what to do with it all.   That has been cleared up and I am sure that the acceptance will grow.   Especially as we step out and allow ourselves to be known for who and what we are.

I am rather fortunate that I am not one of those "passable" ones that can go around unnoticed and simply have someone assume I am a conventional female.  I am fortunate because I do not have that added internal burden of worrying about "passing".     I am not worried about being "passable" ....something that is a bit beyond my reach .... but ...... I can be "presentable" and that I can do something about.

I consider being a woman ... a woman that happens to be transgender .... as a privilage and I am quite happy and proud to be just that........

Thank you and hugs

Rita

paradox3 .....  thank you for your question .... a difficult one to ask isn't it?

Lets take the question of attraction from the point of view of the plumbing we were born with...

No matter ..... we tend to be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual at the same rate as the general population.

Now lets look at how I really feel it should be viewed.   I have postulated that the core of a person is in their head (heart, soul, intellect).    Also, a persons sense of gender identity is contained in that core being.    Therefore I feel that the proper way to view sexual orientation is from that inner heart point of view as to what gender you are.

Given that..... the question of a transgender person's sexual orientation can be answered two ways.   As for the sexual orientation of an intersexed person .... well ... our models are not able to begin to approach that question.

Do we change sexual orientation as we change gender roles?     Sometimes yes .... most times no ..... but the viewpoint as to how we see our sexual orientation changes.

If I am attracted to conventional women before while I was living as a male .... I was heterosexual.   If I maintain that attraction for conventional women once I have changed gender roles then I would see myself as a lesbian.    Pleas understand that viewpoint is irrespective of whether or not I have had "the operation".

.........

Thank you for the courage to ask the sensitive questions..

Hugs

Rita

Thanks so much, Rita . . . P3

RitaTG,

if there weren't any social pressure to conform to 'woman' & 'man', what word that is uniquely you would you call yourself? :3

InannaWhimsy ...... I would simply call myself Rita.....

For me it is not so much and issue of gender ... it is an issue of personhood .... and I am Rita.....

Thank you for asking....

Rita

Then if anyone asks me in the future what are you, a man, a woman, male, female, I'll call you Rita :3

Jesus is strong in you :3

thank you InannaWhimsey ..... I am honoured that you would just call me Rita ....

The other labels and descriptors are rather insufficient and impersonal.

Hugs

Rita

Thanks Rita, for taking the time to answer my questions.........

(I think I was confused by intersex and transgender as you mentioned intersex in your interview on being transgendered- thanks for the clarification.)

I've given a lot of thought to your interview -and the following has occurred to me......

I can't think of any other issue that is so crucial to our sense of self as the sex we identify with.

Our English language is littered with sexual pronouns -his/hers, him/her etc. Many European languages have male and female endings to words (as well as "le" and "la")

Being gay, lesbian, and bi-sexual has it's own angsts -but at least you feel comfortable with your own body identity.

So, all you lucky ones - heterosexuals who find themselves in accord with their sexual plumbings like me (okay, I admit to having had the occasional psychological girl crush)  -  just try and imagine how devastating your life would be if you looked down and saw the "wrong" plumbing? If tomorrow you awoke to the "wrong" plumbing?

I cannot imagine anything being as devastating to my sense of self, can you?

Thus, it occurs to me that suicide rates must be high in the transgendered population. Any figures. Rita?

Pilgrims Progress ..... thank for saying what you have .... you are right on the mark...

The suicide rate for transgender persons runs at some 31% to 41% depending on which studies one chooses.   Suffice to say that the rates are enormously high and most of the stress of depression is related to the reaction by society at large.   Of course there is the increased pressure from family which is also highly influenced by society.   That is why the acknowledgement is so very very important.  

Finally .... we are acknowledged as worthwhile .... worthy of protection .... worthy of just being.....

Hugs

Rita

That was a good interview Rita. You presented yourself well.

Rich blessings.

---

MC jae

Thank you MC Jae....

Hugs

Rita

Hi Rita,

I'm sorry I missed reading this thread until now. It is good news! I would like to listen to your interview, but unfortunately, I clicked on the link and it took me to a cbc page, but there was nothing on it/ no audio came up. Would you be able to find it again and post another link in case the above one is broken? Thanks :)

Hello Kimmo

The link works....

You need to have flash player installed in order for it all to come up and be able to hear it.

If that is a problem then just let me know and I will get a regular audio file for you.

Hugs

Rita

Hi Rita,

I don't know why but I went to the site to listen to the interview. Something came up for a second telling me I need the latest flash player, then it disappeared. So, I went to the adobe site and installed the latest version of flash, went back to the interview link and clicked again--still the same probelm. So, my apologies. I've never had a problem listening to cbc radio files  before, so i don't know what's wrong.

Hi Rita

You did great in the interview.....!!!!

Congrats....I'm so happy for you and all the others.

These washroom signs are in N.S. I don't believe I've seen them before. ( Sorry the pic, wouldn't post)

Capital Health has added transgender signs to its single-use bathrooms. This is good!

http://www.capebretoncafe.com/news_feeds-cape_breton_nova_scotia

well stardust ..... the signs are a step perhaps .... but look at the implications.

The sign still suggests that I am not "woman enough" to use the regular women's restroom.    A step ... but still shows there is more to be done on understanding.

Personally ..... I would never use a restroom with such a designation.....   I worked too hard to be who I am to be discretely told that I don't belong.....

Something to think about ....... and I apologize if it seems I have taken exception with you because certainly I have not....   I am speaking to the issue and I feel I may be fumbling the intent of my words again.

Hugs

Rita

Rita,

you aren't a woman --- you're something more precious, more wonderful, a unique phoenix, a Rita...you've set out on an authentic path of living, conscious, mindful life, which is quite hard in this society that has so many pulls and pushes of conforming..."YOU MUST be this, you MUST be that...you can't be this AND that at the same time, otherwise, BLASPHEMY!" :3

Be strong...it's not easy being human :3

Hi Rita

I don't know a thing about Capital Health. I wonder why they decided to add the signs and whether or not they had received  sufficient consultation and input or meetings with the transgender communities before doing so?  Someone else posted comments that agreed with your assessment.

Hugs back atcha

Genevieve