Worse still, it could easily be Canadian troops against Canadian citizens. I was talking to a young man at a gathering the other night who has plans to join in the Occupy Wall Street movement with a couple of friends in a week or so.

I suspect there will be some copying of the protest here in Canada. I've even heard talk of it doing so in New Brunswick,  Canada's most passive province.

Graeme, you suspect correctly....

Canadian version of Wall Street occupation planned
kim mackrael
Globe and Mail Update
Published Sunday, Oct. 02, 2011 2:31PM EDT
 

In Toronto, activists say they plan to converge in the city’s financial district on Saturday Oct. 15. A tentative schedule on a website called Occupy Toronto says the occupation will begin at 10 a.m. ET that day. The group plans to use the weekend to organize itself and says it will wait to march on the streets until the Toronto Stock Exchange opens on Monday.

Canadian protests are also planned for Calgary, Vancouver, Victoria, Ottawa, Montreal, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, according to a website called Occupy Together.

For more info....

http://www.occupytogether.org/events/international/canada/

http://www.occupyto.ca/

LB

--------------------------------

I drive a rolls royce 'cos it's good for my voice
But you won't fool the children of the revolution
No you won't fool the children of the revolution, no no no - yeah!

     T Rex, Children of the Revolution

This is dangerous. They agree on what they're against; but very unclear on what they're for.

But it was inevitable. The public show of greed and power by the wealthy has brought us to this state. If Americans allow this to go on, they will look like a third world state within a generation.

Big business has created one hell of a situation for all of us.

I still maintain, they should be protesting in Washington and demanding Congress bring back bank regulation.

Banks are adequately regulated in Canada, as far as I know,

Waste of time. Congress is owned by the banks. Wall St. is the place to be. That's where the real power is. Congress is irrelevant.  Virtually all congressman are on the take. That's why congress is full of millionaires (a majority, by far) - though they weren't millionaires at the start.

Anyway, the problem is not just the banks. It's the whole economic system, and the way it has concentrated wealth in the hands of a very few. I know they need money to invest. But somebody also has to have money to buy the things they invest in.

The wage gap in Canada is actually growing even faster than in the US.

And, interestingly, as we face a deepening recession, it's curious to see that corporations are consistently making record profits. And paying less taxes.

I share your concern, graeme.

I hope that it remains peaceful and non-violent..........

We as a community often know what we don't want - but we're often unclear on what we want, and how to best achieve it.

Demonstrations in the past were all about appealing to those with political power in the government or opposition parties.

Seems to me that in today's world the corporations and those that control them have the real power - and you can't democratically vote out corporations........... (The Murdoch media is still a reality).

Peaceful and non-violent?  Tell that to the police.  Unlike the media here The Guardian in the UK is doing a very good job of covering this event.  The behaviour of the authorities is proof of the protestors point.  As far as "demands" are concerned, Where do you even start?  Secondly, once you make them you open yourself to co-optation and marginalization of your issues.  "Demands" are just what the "authorities" want so they can begin the business of co-opting them and showing they are unreasonable (whatever the demands might be).  The idea here is not to play by the rules the oppressors have laid down.  This strategy is driving the authorities crazy and they are   reacting in ways (like maceing peaceful protestors) which build support for the protest.  We haven't seen any police vans roaring through the streets running down protestors as we did in Egypt but it is clear from the actions of police that the same sort of animus against the protestors exists.  The coverage (when it exists at all) shows that the media are truly in the hands of the corporate kleptocracy that now governs the U.S.   ABC news begins its broadcast by observing that the protests are growing ...  "and so tonight, here,  we ask what is driving these protestors? ..."  

ABC News is asking what is driving the protestors?  ABC effing News is scratching their collective heads and wondering what in the world could be wrong?!!?  Did you notice anything?  ... We haven't noticed anything!  ... We thought everything was going swimmingly! ... Whatever could be eating these people?  

Well something certainly is eating the people of the U.S. and the people don't like it and they have come to Wall Street to have a conversation about it.  "Demands" are not necessary.  Everyone knows what it is about ... And it is too complicated to mash into a list of demands for a sound bite for the mystified shills on ABC News and their ilk

It really is an illustration of just how bad things have become when you have to go overseas to get the details of a story unfolding in North America..

Here is a link to The Guardian's story.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/sep/28/occupy-wall-street-anthony-bologna?newsfeed=true

Actually the Atlantic Monthly has done a pretty good job online of reporting this pictorially ... 

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/09/occupy-wall-street/100159/

I saw some slow motion video of the mace incident.  It was a malicious and gratuitous act of violence plain and simple.

Watch the video ... 

Does this cop have the demeanour of someone taking legal action to enforce the law or of a disreputable perp committing unlawful and violent assault with a keen sense of  his own guilt and wrongdoing and a focussed intention of evading its consequences?

They arrested 700 people for blocking traffic and similar offences today.  That is about 700 more than were arrested for the massive flim flammery of banks and financial institutions that led directly to the world recession of 2008 and the destruction and misappropriation of the wealth and savings of millions of Americans and people around the world.

Thanks for the Guardian link, qwerty.

Here in Oz the police have taken to using taser guns - which have actually resulted in deaths.

If the police won't maintain order without violence - you're right - you can forget about a peaceful demonstration............ 

I love the above!

Occupy Wall Street is an ad hoc coalition whose primary goal is to prevent "corporate greed and corrupt politics set the policies if our nation."  Here is the link to their website

http://occupywallst.org/about/

You can also get news updates on what is occurring at the protest sites as well.

On that site you will see a link to the We Are the 99 Percent site - one of the groups that form the Occupy Wall Street protests.  This is what they have to say for themselves.....

Allow Us to Introduce Ourselves

We are the 99 percent.

We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent.

I think that sums it up nicely, not only for our American neighbours but for the 99 percent here in Canada as well.

For those that remember the 70's, I find it very reminiscent of the movie 'Network'... 

Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
 

Post Update (so I don't look like I'm flooding this thread ;-o)

Here is the link to the original Wall Street Occupiers that list, quite coherently I believe, their concerns...

First ‘official’ statement from the Occupy Wall Street movement , Sept 30 2011

We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known....

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

LB

----------------------------

We who in engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive.

     Martin Luther King

This little story may give some pause for concern....

quoted from....

************************************

Government Orders You Tube To Censor Protest Videos

In a frightening example of how the state is tightening its grip around the free Internet, it has emerged that You Tube is complying with thousands of requests from governments to censor and remove videos that show protests and other examples of citizens simply asserting their rights, while also deleting search terms by government mandate.

The latest example is You Tube’s compliance with a request from the British government to censor footage of the British Constitution Group’s Lawful Rebellion protest, during which they attempted to civilly arrest Judge Michael Peake at Birkenhead county court.

[...]

When viewers in the UK attempt to watch videos of the protest, they are met with the message, “This content is not available in your country due to a government removal request.”

We then click through to learn that, “YouTube occasionally receives requests from governments around the world to remove content from our site, and as a result, YouTube may block specific content in order to comply with local laws in certain countries.”

You can also search by country to discover that Google, the owner of You Tube, has complied with the majority of requests from governments, particularly in the United States and the UK, not only to remove You Tube videos, but also specific web search terms and thousands of “data requests,” meaning demands for information that would reveal the true identity of a You Tube user. Google claims that the information sent to governments is “needed for legitimate criminal investigations,” but whether these “data requests” have been backed up by warrants is not divulged by the company.

“Between July 1 and Dec. 31 (2009), Google received 3,580 requests for user data from U.S. government agencies, slightly less than the 3,663 originating from Brazil,” reports PC World. “The United Kingdom and India sent more than 1,000 requests each, and smaller numbers originated from various other countries.”

 [...]

************************************

Governments control protests by isolating protesters.  The media supports this by making the protesters look like fringe elements. 

The Internet allowed individuals to see that they were not alone; they were not the fringe but one voice of many.  It is very obvious that YouTube, now owned by a corporate behemoth Google, is being controlled by the very corporate interests that the Wall Street Protesters are speaking out about. 

The virus spreads....

LB

-------------------------

June
My whole life
Will never get past “June”
June, when my heart died
When my poetry died
When my lover
Died in romance’s pool of blood

     Shi Tao, Chinese Journalist & Poet,

      jailed after Yahoo shared his email with the Chinese Gov.

Thought you might enjoy this so I just cut and pasted it from The Guardian site...

"This is good. The New York Observer has posted a video of "an interview Fox News filmed, but doesn't want you to see".

​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6yrT-0Xbrn4

​

Hat tip to the New York Observer for the video

The video, which the Observer says was filmed by Kyle Christopher from Occupy Wall Street's media team, shows a Fox News producer interviewing protester Jesse LaGreca.

"Take for instance when Glenn Beck was doing his protest and he called the president a person who hates white people and white culture, and you guys kind of had a big part in it," LaGreca says.

"So I'm glad to see you coming around and kinda paying attention to what the other 99% of Americans are paying attention to, as opposed to the far right fringe who would love to just destroy the middle class entirely."

Ouch."

For qwerty....

because I am such a geek

btw, that young man is as articulate and witty as our own qwerty!

'if we want the President to do more, let's talk to him on a level that actually reaches people, instead of asking for his birth certificate and wasting time with total nonsense..."

add after posting:  oh I see qwerty and I were posting at the same time and he fixed his post, although please note mine is more pleasing to the eye  - geeks rule! 

I love that guy!

The protests that began in Wisconsin this year, and which now also fill the streets of Manhattan, Boston, Chicago, and this week, Washington D.C., have gotten the attention of the American political class. And how could they not? 2011 is becoming a remake of the 1999 Battle of Seattle, except this time the protests are ongoing, national and global, and the target is not just the World Trade Organization, but the entire edifice of corporate capitalism.

So the political class, rather than ignore this wave of protests, pulls a card from the past. They know we are angry, they say. They just don’t understand what we want. We speak in too many voices. According to the American Pravda, The New York Times (which tells the professional classes their truth), we are a “hodgepodge” and “confused” movement with “unclear goals” and “nowhere to go.” Why can’t we settle on a couple key demands?

What some can’t accept, they pretend not to understand. And the political class can’t accept that the common demand of the current protest wave is for democratic revolution. We want them gone. We want power.

We haven’t been secretive about our goals. The Wisconsin Wave was launched in February as a “democracy movement.” Occupy Wall Street calls for an “American Revolution.” The October2011.org occupation of Freedom Plaza in D.C. intends to “Create a New World.” Perhaps, as Thomas Paine once penned, “The birthday of a new world is at hand.”

Democracy is a simple idea. It means “the people rule.” The promise of the United States is democracy. The reality is that corporate elites rule. The contradiction between the promise and reality of America has produced a movement to make the promise the new reality.

We believe it our birthright to directly participate in power. Elections were always a poor substitute for participatory democracy. And elections delegate power from the people to a tiny elite easily browbeaten or bought off by major corporations. Most Americans intuitively know this.

And we have an alternative. A new democratic economy is growing amidst the collapse of the old one. The cooperative sector --made up of coops, credit unions, and community supported and community owned enterprises-- now includes over one third of the American people. Having tasted real democracy, after having been force fed the fake formula, millions are demanding more of the real thing.

We also understand that freedom to govern requires freedom from want. The rights to housing, to an education, to health care, to child care, to a livable income, are all democratic rights. People who don’t have these necessities of life are not free to participate in power. The impoverishment of Americans is the impoverishment of America.

Students of social change learn that mass movements are most likely to emerge at times when economic conditions become intolerable. For tens of millions of Americans, those times are now. This is especially true for young people, among them the many veterans of the unending wars.

The present form of government fails to provide for the pursuit of their happiness. They see that the time has come to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new one. The political class cannot accept this, and so fails to understand it. People in the streets, from Wisconsin to Wall Street to Washington D.C. are proving that we understand it perfectly well.
 

Published on Monday, October 3, 2011 by PRWatch.org

Occupation: Coming to a City Near You?The Occupation Is On The Move, Find a Big Bank Protest Near You

by Mary Bottari

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/10/03-8

Published on Monday, October 3, 2011 by The Guardian/UK

We Are the 99 Per Cent

Occupy Wall Street is a peaceful stand against the big American rip-off. Support it and regain your dignity

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2011/09/29/3329005.htm

Here is a link to a t.v. programme I saw last night that pertains to this thread.

I urge geek types out there who can watch the entire programme to do so - it tells of poverty in the United Kingdom from a child's point of view.

It's no accident that folks are demonstrating in the U.K. and the USA.

More so that Europe, Canada, Australia  - the UK and the USA bought into the "trickle down effect" theory of wealth for all. 

That dynamic duo of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan got that particular ball rolling, and now it's crushing the poor in it's wake.

Essentially the Wall St protests are the result of an ever widening gap in income. The rich are getting richer -and the poor (which includes the working poor) are getting poorer.

The position of the middle class is crucial.

Some get absorbed into the wealthy -  most tighten their belts, and some slide into poverty.

It is the middle class who demonstrate.

They have the education, health, energy to speak up.

The poor are involved in a daily struggle for survival.

It takes all their energy.

Thus, it's up to the middle class to get involved.

We are the ones that can bring about change.

But, don't just protest against the wealthy - protest for the poor.

For those that choose to watch the programme I urge you to contrast the wet and mouldy walls of a Scottish high-rise flat with the McMansions that, not just wealthy, but middle-class, kids live in.

How would you like your kids to be bullied at school because, like one boy, he had to wear his older sister's "hand me down" blouse, instead of a shirt, with his school uniform?

Whilst it's true to say that the middle-class are suffering in today's economic climate - never forget it's the poor who suffer most.

I have never forgotten the humiliation, as a child in High School,  wearing a pair of my Nana's shoes with thick soles, because we couldn't afford a new pair. I can still hear the yells of "Hey, tractor shoes" ringing in my ears...........

I am partaking in the Occupy Edmonton event.  Bam.

This is seriously inspiring.  I think it's been too long since there has been some serious shaking up of the Western world politically.

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

All movements require a spark that inflames not the extremes - those on the right and the left, the top and the bottom, but those in the middle.  The Middle is an easy going bunch who pretty much ignore the extremes up and until one or the other impacts on the Middle.  This is what is happening now in the US and has happened throughout human history.

Much like the French revolution where the complete lack of empathy from the ruling class about the dire straights the majority of citizens were experiencing - the infamous and probably fictional 'let them eat cake' lightening rod - the "average" American watched as the financial fortresses collapsed and instead of compassion to the innocent victims, the players that caused the destruction were given cake while Joe America was punished and lost the family castle.  Only the truly arrogant could not predict that this scenario was a recipe for revolt.

The defenders of the status quo - and there are always defenders - will say that the Middle uprising is disjointed and confused because the defenders only want to see the extreme, black and white side of life.  The Middle is aware that life is much more multi-hued, there is no single problem, no simple solution.  The Middle is united in its desire to get down and solve the multiple problems that face the people.  The Middle is united, standing on firm ground, clear sighted about the reality that the current status quo is not working; that 99% are suffering for the whims and fancies of the other 1%.

This Middle revolt will succeed if it does not become co-opted by extremes - right or left.  It will grow because of its "unfocused" goals but clear mission statement - to restore the balance of power from the few to the many.

LB

--------------------------

The only thing that one really knows about human nature is that it changes. Change is the one quality we can predicate of it. The systems that fail are those that rely on the permanency of human nature, and not on its growth and development. The error of Louis XIV was that he thought human nature would always be the same. The result of his error was the French Revolution. It was an admirable result.
      Oscar Wilde

If it is a waste of time to protest to Congress with concrete ideas ("Better Bank Regulation"--then list the points, which the protesters should research first.) then why is it not a waste of time to wander about Wall Street with comments like "Less is More"  and "Capitalism is Evil"?

I think some of you are very young and full of idealism.    I am an old-timer.

Think of the union movement in the first half of the 20th century.  They went after specific goals, they went directly to the employers, and achieved much success (it was hard fought, true, but you cannot deny they made progress).

I am only calling for clarity and explicit statements about the problems.  Just shouting and yelling will make you feel better for an afternoon but is guaranteed to accomplish nothing.

Pilgrim, thanks for that link.  Excellent.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”--Gandhi

From what I have been reading, many large protests in the past started out without specific demands---everyone must be able to identify what's wrong (everything it seems--namely corporate greed and domination)...but the solutions grow out of it organically as the movement goes along...Unions are going to join the cause soon, and I'm sure they will be able to better articulate their demands...and as more and more people show up, so do the ideas, so do the solutions. It is idealist, but if not now, when? It sort of sprung up unexpectedly, so people are going with it! It doesn't seem to me to be something that can be meticulously planned from the start. The protesters have tapped into a general emotion that the whole world is feeling and it is that emotion that is growing the movement. If the demands were too specific or narrow at this point, I think it would have already started to fizzle. Look at the Tea Party movement. It came about pretty quickly and it turned into something. Something awful, but something. At first people were mocking it...couldn't make sense of it (still can't) but it took hold, and quickly. This is a loosely organized people's movement that will narrow its focus once the sentiment builds and people who are committed are invested enough that they're in for the long haul ...the antidote to the Tea Party perhaps?

Good luck.  My forecast: it will fizzle (certainly in Canada, where the economy is in reasonable shape), and probably in the US too.

We will see.

EO,

I agree - the union movement is the most effective way to bring about improvements for workers.

The only power the worker has is to threaten to withdraw their labour.

I don't believe it's just a coincidence that the gap in income (the real problem here) has occurred with the decline in unionism.

That's not to say that unionism - like most big organizations - isn't subject to many problems, including misuse of funds at times and abuse of power by some leaders.

Also, whilst it's admirable to support the interests of it's members - I think unions as a collective body should speak up more for the most vulnerable (non-working) members of society.

The measure of any society is how it treats it's most vulnerable.

Democracies in the west tend to support the middle class (because that's where most of the votes are) - often at the expense of the most vulnerable - where the need is greater. 

Here in Oz my annual income is such that I'm now eligible for a part Age Pension.

Do you think that a woman who could afford to travel overseas to Canada and Alaska needs government assistance???

If the time should come that I do, I'd avail myself of it.

But that's not now.............

One can have a movement with well articulated objectives but if the movement is not a mass movement then it is all for naught.  In addition articulated objectives in the early stages simply make it easier to co-opt and marginalize the new movement.  There was a good article in The Guardian today that touches on this subject (now being discussed).  It begins ...

Occupy Wall Street has already weathered the usual early storms. The kept media ignored the protest, but that failed to end it. The partisans of inequality mocked it, but that failed to end it. The police servants of the status quo over-reacted and that failed to end it – indeed, it fueled the fire. And millions looking on said, "Wow!" And now, ever more people are organising local, parallel demonstrations – from Boston to San Francisco and many places between.

Let me urge the occupiers to ignore the usual carping that besets powerful social movements in their earliest phases. Yes, you could be better organised, your demands more focused, your priorities clearer. All true, but in this moment, mostly irrelevant. Here is the key: if we want a mass and deep-rooted social movement of the left to re-emerge and transform the United States, we must welcome the many different streams, needs, desires, goals, energies and enthusiasms that inspire and sustain social movements. Now is the time to invite, welcome and gather them, in all their profusion and confusion...

Follow the link for the full article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/04/occupy-wall-street-new-york?newsfeed=true

Another reason that "a platform" has not yet been built by Occupy Wall Street (apart from the issue of its prematurity) is that this is a middle class populist movement. The middle class is suffering a "death by a thousand cuts" and it is almost impossible to isolate on a single (or even a few) causes.  There is an excellent article in Atlantic Monthly on this subject.  The article begins ...

The "Occupy Wall Street" protest might seem inchoate, disorganized, even chaotic and confused. That's to be expected. This is movement about a middle class crisis that has no easy culprit. 

If you look across the placards at the protest, there is no one cause. Some signs call for student loan reform. Some call for tax reform. Some call for legal reform. Some are contradictory, such as the calls for anarchy and better government. Some don't make all that much sense. But so what? This is a populist movement, not a campaign platform. Not yet, anyway...

The link to the article is ...

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-what-should-a-populist-movement-ask-of-washington/246143/

The unions don't think it is a good idea to try and focus the agenda either.  Here is an excerpt an interview from The Guardian's real time live coverage of the event ...

I have a feeling this one isn't going to fizzle out very quicky. It keeps building. Unions will get involved it looks like, but this isn't just about the union movement this time. The political right has usually been against unions and wants to break unions.  It's about the entire global economy and sustainability of the planet now. Unions are effective at mobilizing union issues and might help in crystallizing and mobilizing the broader issues. This is about middle class working people, unemployed,  working poor, and youth who are pissed off and quite frankly scared that their opportunities, and their planet, are being sold out by the rich 1 percent and those who look out for their interests, but not the general populous-- and this has been happening in the whole western world for years and has reached a saturation point.  The common people want a say in what happens to them and their futures and don't feel like they have had that. It looks like more of a revolution in the making than a protest. It's kind of hard to process and even harder to predict what might happen. Maybe a new form of politics will emerge that doesn't fit the capitalist vs. socialist models that we know. Maybe a new progressive party will form in the states to counter what's there now...after all this is happening at the heels of an election. It might fizzle out but it doesn't look like it. I think people's first reaction is to rationalize it away and dismiss it because it's uncomfortable. It's one thing to daydream and talk about a better world, and another to see broad action actually being taken. I think we'd better get used to it. I'm not seeing any signs of it letting up from what I read and see. Maybe people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Good things have come out of movements like this in the past (women's rights, civil rights--whose only specific demand in the beginning was equality). For those who remember it, and those like me who read about it in history books, it seems as though the steps that led to civil rights and equality just neatly fell into place as a result of a huge organized effort...but I don't think that was the case. It was many small efforts and different concerns of regular people that came together and little by little things changed. Our problem now is that we've developed short attention spans and want everything to happen overnight.

The problem in the US is that no model of a different economic system exists. For almost all its history, the US has had a right wing party and a far right wing party. To think of a third option was, well, unthinkable. The US is the only country I can think of that has a term like Unamerican. I have never heard of a person with a different opinion being called Uncanadian or Unenglish or Unmexican.

American have some hard stages to go through. They have to unlearn all the nonsense they have been taught by schools and propagandized all their life about. They have to learn it is possible to see things in a different way.

that is going to be one hell of a process all by itself. then they still have to develop a response to the new truth - another tough process.

I would hope the movement succeeds. But I have to say I think it is more likely to lead to violence from the state and from criminals and the poverty stricken. The result of that will be either a police state (which the US pretty much is, anyway) or a complete disintegration of American society.

Ask Kimmio says, it won't happen overnight. But that may be all the time it has.

I expect it to be weaker in Canada - but not just because of our better economic condition. It's also because we're allowed to think what we like without being called uncanadian. We also have a developed party on the left.

Mind you, hysteria from the American right will certainly influence Harper's response.

double 

double

I would like to stay optimistic Graeme. The general population who wants real change has too much at stake to let it turn violent. The protesters themselves won't tolerate any violent fringe element ruining their efforts...they are very clear that it is to remain peaceful. This is about the voice of regular people. If we collectively get pessimistic, then you're right, nothing good will come out of it.

Nevermind the bad possibilities for now, stop the fear (if people succumbed to their fears we would not have had civil rights), what do you think the good ones are? I see lot of hope and optimism in this.

I can say one thing...the protesters down south are very brave and steadfast when they want something to change. They always have been.  Americans in general are very brave. We pretty much have their bravery to thank for all the equality we enjoy. Many good and committed citizens have taken great risks for us and the whole western world. It's not just about the bad stuff. We talk a lot, and critique-- they dig their heels in when the going gets rough.

Below is an interview with Frances Fox Piven.  She is someone the American right doesn't like much.  Glenn Beck has spent a lot of time vilifying her.  Democracy Now reports "Bill O'Reilly appears ready to take on Glenn Beck's crusade against City University of New York professor Frances Fox Piven. After airing comments Piven made in support of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, O'Reilly called Piven a "communist sympathizer" who O'Reilly said was "outed by Glenn Beck." and further they report that  "On his daily radio and television shows, Glenn Beck has elevated once-obscure conservative thinkers onto best-seller lists. Recently, he has elevated a 78-year-old liberal academic to celebrity of a different sort, in a way that some say is endangering her life.

Frances Fox Piven, a City University of New York professor, has been a primary character in Mr. Beck's warnings about a progressive take-down of America. Ms. Piven, Mr. Beck says, is responsible for a plan to "intentionally collapse our economic system."

Her name has become a kind of shorthand for "enemy" on Mr. Beck's Fox News Channel program, which is watched by more than 2 million people, and on one of his Web sites, The Blaze. This week, Mr. Beck suggested on television that she was an enemy of the Constitution.

Never mind that Ms. Piven's radical plan to help poor people was published 45 years ago, when Mr. Beck was a toddler. Anonymous visitors to his Web site have called for her death, and some, she said, have contacted her directly via e-mail.

Responding to these death threats, several professional academic associations called on Beck to end his vilification of her. He refused to stop his attacks.

I figure if she pisses Glenn Beck off that much she must have something going for her.  Here is what she has to say about OccupyWallStreet ... she talks about how labour unions can support the movement and she talks about how the diminishment of democracy in the USA looks at ground level.

The Faces of Occupy Wall Street.....

.

For more faces and their stories click  We are the 99%

I just posted this on my Financial Crisis thread.  However,  I don't think anyone is reading it, since I rarely get comments.  

But you need to educate yourself!   Anyone who launches a protest without knowing the facts will surely fail.

UBS is a large Swiss bank (the bank the author talks about in his article)

BAD MANAGEMENT

Sometimes problems are not caused by evil or greed, but by plain old-fashioned stupidity, resulting in Bad Management.   This example (from The Wall Street Journal) is a case in point:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204612504576610771094071078.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_t

Politicians aren't the only ones in denial about new realities.

By HOLMAN W. JENKINS, JR

That river in Egypt has been flowing with unusual force among the world's policy makers. And we're not just engaging in a tired pun. Rather than call it denial, let's just say that mankind has an inclination to believe that comfortable actions are the solution to new problems.

In that sense, Oswald Grübel is the Obama-Merkel-Sarkozy of Swiss banking. His name, if known to you at all, is known only because of his eye-catching resignation last month as head of Switzerland's biggest bank over a "rogue trading" scandal.

But that wasn't the real reason for his departure from UBS. He had to go because he was one more non-leader for our times who wouldn't or couldn't wake up to the changes required by the world economic crisis.

Mr. Grübel was recruited out of retirement in early 2009 to guide UBS to safety amid a global crisis. Before his nation was the frightening prospect of becoming the next Ireland, if not Iceland—swamped to the point of disaster by the failure of one or two giant, locally chartered banks whose liabilities were many times larger than the Swiss economy.

Yet despite the disaster that nearly engulfed the bank, Mr. Grübel seemingly could not wait to get back to business as usual. When the Swiss parliament subsequently wanted to raise UBS capital requirement to 19%, nearly twice what other countries were demanding for their megabanks, he grumbled. He grumbled about restrictions on his ability to offer bonuses. He grumbled about a requirement that he make the bank easier to liquidate in a crisis.

He did not seem to appreciate that UBS's resistance was not welcomed by many of Switzerland's smaller, more discreet banks, who saw the UBS's risk-taking and attention-drawing as destabilizing to their industry and country—a view shared by taxpayers and politicians.

His investment-banking division, which had lost $65 billion on subprime bets and required a government bailout, he wanted to expand again as quickly as possible. He hired hundreds of bankers. He raised compensation. He aimed to move UBS smartly up the league tables as a dealmaker, underwriter and trader.

"We do know what we're doing. Risk is our business," he told investors last year.

That plan was already going sour on the bank's failure to hit his profit targets when one of his employees last month was found to have blown $2 billion on unauthorized bets on stock index futures.

Then there was the other mortal threat to the bank's existence that Mr. Grübel was called upon to fix. He told the Journal two years ago that, from the perspective of the worried rich of the emerging markets, "Switzerland looks a lot better than the U.S., the U.K. or any other country."

Yet that reputation was being undermined by the settlement he reached, of necessity, with the U.S. Justice Department, which threw open thousands of customer records to U.S. tax collectors. And the hits keep coming. Settlements in the offing will require UBS and other Swiss banks to surrender details about British and German depositors, and also to advance as much as $5 billion in "withholding" to cover their expected tax liabilities.

Whatever they say about old dogs apparently applies to Mr. Grübel. He could not envision a stabilization and turnaround at UBS that did not seek essentially to restore its highly leveraged, globe-trotting business model as it existed in 2006. He could not see that his ambitions, by piling up assets and personnel in the U.S. and other financial capitals, only would leave the bank more vulnerable to pressure from foreign tax authorities, making his main asset, Swiss safety, less credible in a world in which governments are becoming more grabby, in some cases predatorial.

As one competitor put it, what UBS shareholders, Swiss regulators and Swiss politicians were all telling Mr. Grübel was that they wanted UBS to focus on its wealth preservation franchise at the expense of speculative pursuits. "The only people that don't want to say that are the people at UBS."

I don't think that's true. I think what is required is collective will and commitment to change. I think this protest is bound to turn the heads of  left leaning ecomonics professors and analysts, etc. There are very educated and articulate people concerned about these issues. It's not just a movement of hippie youth. Right now it seems to be about building momentum and a common vested interest in making change. Everyone knows that the powerful tycoons have too much control, even if not everyone knows who they all are. Not everyone is capable of knowing everything either...they just know things have gone terribly wrong and they want things to change, and their visible presence in the movement adds strength to it. It will need to be a collective effort with everyone involved contributing their inherent strengths and human capital. New information and ideas will materialize as it goes along I think. I am an idealist, but also think the fact that it is a grass roots movement of regular people, not just educated experts with  top down ideas, is really important.

So it's a collection of people that want more from the people that they think shouldn't have got rich from wanting more?

I am not an "educated expert", just someone who thinks you need to read the news (carefully) to understand what is going on, so I know which movements I should support and which I should not.

Have another glass of champagne and a canape waterfall.  Laugh it up with the swells.

UBS was victimized by a criminal act (of a rogue trader) that occurred on Greubel's watch.  Nobody (except possibly you) has suggested a direct connection between Greubels policies and the loss which has so wounded the company.  On the other hand, the actions, attitudes and business policies criticized in the article are the very kind of thing (think "casino mentality") that has felled US banks in the US and has led directly to the protests on Wall Street.  What you have posted, EO, is an argument for participation in the protests ... or at least respectful support of them.

Chicago traders: "We are the 1%"

OMG

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/05/336590/chicago-protests-we-are-1-percent/

That takes guts

Guts! Marie Antoinette had 'em!  Now Chicago Traders have 'em too.

Protests are fine!   But now you know a little more about what to talk about if someone challenges you.  (Perhaps you already did, but I think some on this thread do not).

What is astonishing is that this banker has learnt absolutely nothing, which is the whole point the author of the article is trying to make.   (And The Wall Street Journal is hardly anti-business).

All I am saying is that educated, intelligent protests are more likely to bear fruit.   Otherwise, people brush them off.

Note this quote at the start of article in The New Republic (a liberal weekly)

When the “Occupy Wall Street” protests began to attract notice last week, the initial reaction was to scoff at the “Trustafarian nitwits” who lacked leaders, spokespeople, a policy agenda, or even much of a philosophy beyond anarchy, its cousin minarchy, and drum circles.

and it ends

As fascinating as the spontaneous, unfocused energy of Occupy Wall Street is, and even if it’s the only way to attract the attention of the media, in our obsession with finding “our Tea Party” liberals should not overlook the other work that’s being done, not just by policy wonks at think tanks, but by many other activists and protesters who are not afraid to camp on some lobbyist’s lawn. Occupy Wall Street might be part of a titillating new trend, but liberals shouldn’t let their Tea Party-envy trick them into thinking it’s an easy alternative to the hard inside-outside game of social transformation.

You can read the whole thing here, I am at work and have not had time to look it over carefully--I will do that tonight, but he is basically making the same point as me.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/95753/occupy-wall-street-left-tea-party-dionne?utm_source=The+New+Republic&utm_campaign=e72503c6d6-TNR_Daily_100511&utm_medium=email

Everyone 

So do you think they are bragging about being the elite 1%, and are thus better than the rest of us? Is  the sign is a taunt to the protests. Or a kind of "Let them Eat Cake" Statement  Or are the Traders conceding that something is wrong and they agree with the protesters?

I like this comment, found at the link your provide

There is another option available to each one of - we can stop spending money on all but the essentials. This as a variation on Ghandi's hunger strike strategy.

For every event there are good and bad consequences, GeoFee.

If we only spent money on essentials -a lot of workers would be out of work.

I suppose some sort of balance is the way to go...........

No. There are plenty of  unemployed people, people who are barely getting by, and there are likely those who have been lucky and done okay...but still recognize that the current system is not working, the the income gap is widening, and their children and children's children are inheriting a train-wreck.

Give it time. I think this will crystallize into  more articulate messages. Leaders will emerge once the momentum and support is big enough.  Remember there is an upcoming election in the states and my guess is another party will form from this with some concrete messages.

I don't think the message is to stop spending altogether, I think it is about a more fair distribution of wealth....more fair,  more transparent, but not total communism. I think a new paradigm will emerge. This might go on for some time.