They Thought They Were Free

Thanks LB.  I've never read the book you quote from, but I've noted a few disturbing parallels to that same time and place in history.  Thanks for letting me be aware that I'm not the only one with such thoughts and concerns.

 Beshpin, that's one re-action.  Another re-action might be a call to have an open mind and consider and investigate for yourself some of the things that are going.  It can take you to some crazy ridiculous places, but no more crazy or ridiculous than some of the things our politicians tell us.

For example, bill C-6 which died in proroguing of parliament.  It may have contained a lot of good things.  However, it also contained a tiny clause that if passed, made it perfectly legal for an agent of the government to come into your house, without the need of a warrant, without having to go to a judge to say why, without warning, just show up, come in and review all of your consumer products, which, is likely just about anything in the house and then decide if any of them have the potential to be harmful, (with no real definition given as to what that means).  And if it costs money to test the harm of that product, you have to pay for it.

Now, the reason we are told that this was put in there, was to protect people against schemers who sell holistic medicines that could be making dubious claims about their effectiveness.  That issue can be debated on its own - fair enough.

What the implication is, the government has made it legal for them to trespass.  Oh sure, the government would never use that power for reasons other than stated... we can believe our government would never abuse its power while we forgive their trespasses... right?

I think this every time I watch the "news" on t.v.

As good a definition of the media as you'll get - good stuff, LB.

Hey, I don't know much about naziism cause I ain't real smart like Beshipin at least tries to be.Did the naziis have torture? arrest and imprisonment without charge or trial? Mass murder of Civilians? any people they were taught to hate on the basis of ignorant notions about race or religion? Did the naziis invade countries that had not attacked them? Did they have hired killers? Did naziis practice terrorism?

Do you know what terrorism means?

LBmuskoka,

That is so true and before it happened in Germany it happened elsewhere and it has and does happen since.

Our fear circuitry has been around longer and is stronger than our reasoning circuitry and so politics,car salemen, insurance folks, media... plays on and draws on fears. Heck, most things do... because it is how we are wired. Fight or flight. Either one requires fear and the fears can be real, perceived or imaginary - any and all will do.

Be afraid of terrorists, be afraid of communism, be afraid of male pattern baldness....

Fear has no match in getting us enthusiastic or moving us or riveting us. When our anxieties are stoked we are active or glued. It is how we work. Some medication commercial comes on and we are ready to follow and "ask your doctors about..." and they never said what it was for, but whatever it was must be bad and we are afraid we have it or will get it....

Fear clouds our reasoning for sure. Afraid of the dark, afraid of heights, afraid of spiders... afraid of GLBTQ, afraid of foreigners, afraid of people with other religions...

So, when they get us worried, we are busy looking outside while nobody or, worse yet, a someone minds the store. The cash is all gone and we saw no robbers.

They get us all worried, concerned, scared.... oh and anger goes a long way too.... and rights are eroded. The store is emptying. An al-Qaida scare will get you a Patriot Act, reauthorization or that darn Military Commissions Act of 2006 and get you tossing the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Any old spectre will do.

Fear healthcare.... fear school shootings... fear children outside playing...

And the resiliency of our system is only as strong as the will of the leaders we have defending it.

If we are afraid we are too busy looking in the shadows to look at them.

 Hey listen, male pattern baldness really freaks me out!

To use an example from my own life.  Last year on the evening of Good Friday the police were banging on my door at 2:00 am.  They wanted to search my house because apparently I kidnapped my children out of foster care earlier in the evening.   No amount of reasoning would make them go away.  I finally, let them in and let them search the house.   I was wide awake by this point anyway.

They are not allowed to come in without a search warrent yet I am not aware of my rights enough to know whether I could be arrested or not.  The emergency on call social worker (I used to be a foster parent so my name is in the system) called the police and told them I had these children.  It was an error on their part.  That does not help me at  2:00 am on Good Friday wondering if I could get arrested and strip searched.  Also to spend the weekend in the jail would not be the most pleasant experience.  

If this had actually happened I doubt I could sue because "they were acting to protect a child"  

The social workers, of course, are denying any responsibility whatsoever.   I complained to the police chief and he apologized but stated that the police do not wander around making bogus arrested.  He showed me the paperwork for the evening.  The emergency on call social worker phoned and said that I was suspected to have taken my own children and when the search took place the police guy realized that no children live in my home.  

I asked the police chief what would have happened if the police had found children in my home.  I told him that they would have been traumatized to be dragged out to the cop car.   What if I actually had children?  People do have children and the only reason why I let him search was because there was none.  All the police chief said was "We can be fortunate that you do not have children and that did not happen"

Ahh, where's this meshugganah I'm looking for

*digs through Wonderchest*

KAF! KAF! KAF!

Sheesh, I should clear that out more often I should clear that out.

Ah, here it is...yes, you might want to wear your sunglasses for this one.  The future's so bright, the future is now.

Enjoy:

LB, thank you for posting this. I, too, believe that the situation is becoming dire in terms of the warning signs. The fear is being generated by those who use it to silence people -- let's remember where that has led in the past and do everything in our power to direct our country and communities in another direction. Speaking out has its risks but not speaking out, as the famous poem describes, is much riskier.

Let us speak out for love and justice -- not the kind that is equated with vengeance, but, as Micah is reported to have said, "seek justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your god".

 I think discussion is good.  This isn't a zero-sum game.  I appreciate when someone disagrees with me and gives me something to think about.

If people are concerned about the direction or changes in our country we should be free to express it.  If people disagree, they should be free to express that too.  That's how we become informed, become considerate; by listening and trying to understand other points of view.  

Sure, from time to time things can get heated, especially when good folk are compassionate.  Picking up your marbles and leaving the playground, or telling someone else to do so, doesn't really benefit anyone.  I like a full playground.  And a busy and loud one, tells me, that it is a passionate one.  I like that too.

As one reads the quote from Mayer's book, it is just that, five short paragraphs of a book.

Was there some newspaper article or news story or radio commentator who resurrected it recently that some have seen and I missed?

Because, for me, the quote from the book came with no commentary. It invited it. Yet, it was attacked for comparing Canada to Nazi Germany. What one compares those 5 paragraphs to or against is done by self.

One could look at it as commentary on Germany (note the title of the book). One could look at it globally or nationally. One could look at it as warning. One could look at it as accusation.... One could see McCarthyism or the Bush years. One could see Hitler and Germany.

I looked at it more through my ex-pat lens and saw America. Some saw Canada.

Mayer wrote about Germany.

If anyone or any nation sees themselves in it, they brought it there. Mayer wrote of Germany.

So, if someone sees Conservatives called Nazis or Harper called Hitler or teh government called facism ...from those 5 paragraphs.... they did that themselves.

If someone sees themselves or  their country or their leader, IMO whether they agree or disagree with the comparison they are making or that they think others might make there is a problem.

Resistance, protest, criticism and complaint are also parts of a free society.

Mayer wrote a compelling book offering how 'decent men' became Nazi's through biographies. He was an American journalist of German/Jewish descent.

We need to quit using as an epithet words like communist or facist... or being afraid of them or feeling they are inherently evil or inferior... If one looks at what makes a nation facist, many the world over are - some who call it as such and others call themselves other things. It is especially ironic hearing someone so upset with the possibility it is inferred their nation is and it be coming from one who speaks of ethnocentrism and even defends Uganda with it.

 I know that I get a little tired of the ad hominem comparisons to Hitler, or Nazi's, or The Holocaust, anytime someone finds something despicable.  In some way with it becoming so common, it can begin to trivialize the events of WW2.

Harper may be a lot of things, including assuming powers we once thought were more transparent in an open, free, and democratic society but he isn't in the process of killing off millions of people.  That's the difference.  I think that is the point that Beshpin is trying to make.  Not that Besh needs me to speak for him/her.

For a lot of us though, the comparison to the road travelled by Germany in the 30's may offer some warnings about what is going on now.  Harper isn't a dictator, but shutting down parliament, government bills that eliminate due search and seizure requirements, eliminating discussions with stakeholders in any variety of funding matters, are reasons for concern about a growing concentration of power in an office that seems less and less like the ideals on which many of us, wherever educated, were raised.

ps - I went to school in Ontario.

Beshpin, LB quoted a section in a book and made no reference to our country. Unlike you, what I read was a warning that the conditions here and in the "western" world are starting to look similar to the conditions that existed as described in that quote. When conditions begin to parallel another situation that had disastrous (on a massive scale) results, we can take it as a warning to change the direction or we can ignore it, possibly to our peril.

As well, the killing of Jews, gays and lesbians, people of colour, Roma people, those who were disabled were not the only egregious acts committed by the Nazi government of Germany. Several countries were invaded and huge numbers of people were killed by those acts of aggression.

This latter situation is happening now -- not by armies but by international corporations. They are supported by international bodies that have the acquisition of more, at the expense of many lives and the expense of the quality of life for many more, as their only goal. This has resulted in invasions of countries, such as many of the countries of Central and South America, much of Asis and of course, most of Africa as well.

Are you aware of the jailings and deaths of many people around the world who have and continue to try to defend their communities from invasion by mining corporations? What about those who try to organize unions where working conditions are deadly, such as Coca Cola plants in various parts of the world (google it and see for yourself)? Are you aware that the corporate media are largely silent on the reporting of these events? What about the hiring of so-called security companies in Iran and Afghanistan, instead of sending in military personnel -- although I don't agree with the wars, at least when the military is involved, there are international rules of engagement -- when companies such as Blackwater are sent in the name of the US government, they are subject to no-one and have been reported as committing atrocities.

Yes, it's horrible to think about how we play at being one thing (peacekeepers, people who respond to others affected by disaster, people who care about our neighbours, etc) but the grim reality is that our governments are involved, and have been for a long time, in organizations and practices that deny democracy (true democracy, not the facade that is being presented to us in the media) and human rights to many people of the world. We can hide behind rose-coloured glasses and deny this reality or we can acknowledged that the oppression that's being done in our name is not what we want. We now have the tools to connect with each other around the country, and even around the dominant countries of the world to give our governments the message that we will not tolerate this any longer or moving along the path of facism any further.

Beshpin,

some links for you to explore:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Naomi_Klein_explains_how_we_willingly_1013.html

http://rushkoff.com/articles/arthur/acceptance-doesnt-equal-aquiescence/

In a real sense, we live in a world that others have created, in that this world, the way it works, was manufactured for a purpose.  It didn't 'just happen' by fiat.  Each of these people have differing philosophies, different worldviews.  They all have differing levels of trust, for example.  Now, in a very real sense, the world consists also of differing worldviews bumping up against each other.  So we have 'Liberals' going Harper is BAD and we have 'Conservatives' going Trudeau is BAD.  This is normal.

I think it is fair to say that people operate by testable, predictable, repeatable 'laws'.  There are people and groups that understand this.  And they can and do use that.  And since they are people, that is, they have worldviews and biases of which they may or may not be cognizant of...these people and groups can make their worldview the World.

Now, not all worldviews work the same, in all times, in all conditions.  They are akin to tools, they act in accordance to the environment and whom is using them.

(There are, however, I think, certain worldviews being promoted by these groups and people who grok how they work that aren't...very conducive to a general style of living that I find a lot of people are used to?  To stifle things like dissent, freedom of private property, freedom from search-and-seizure, and so forth...all being packaged and sold as "This is safe and good for us.")

Just as I look at everyone's writing here on WC as all these different worldviews.

Try not to take these links LITERALLY, but try to use them as lenses to examine the world you live in right now and see what you encounter.

Just a Self-writing poem,

InannaWhimsey

 That Rushkoff piece has some heavy lifting in it.  For me the awakening was a video I watched on google video called "The Money Masters..."

It would be worth another thread is anyone has watched it.  Let me know.

Beshpin, the laws of a country are for its citizens.

Granton, I agree - as do most Jews - that the whole "compare it to Hitler" thing makes light of the Holocaust. The Anti Defamation League (ADL) has spoken on this for years. Used so easily it means it has lost its meaning. Any old bad person is Hitler and anything racist is Nazi and anything any loss on large scale is a Holocaust... I don't theink the Shoah is off limits. I would say calling Darfur a holocaust is comparing like to like. Proportion matters.

All that said, I want to make sure I am clear that pointing out what led to things is a-ok. (ie- the quoted book, etc)

BTW, let me say that I find it offensive, diminishing, and trivializing of ALL involved... including, but not limited to, the German people.

 ...well, don't misunderstand me either StevieG, I also think the constant reminder of the Holocaust is overplayed too.  It has led to a "hands-off" approach when discussing Israel.  Just try and say something less than glowing about Israel and you get labelled an "anti-semite" -- and that's not right either.  The constant focus on the Holocaust hasn't exactly prevented any other genocides - Cambodia?  Rwanda?  Darfur?   

The Holocaust was an absolutely horrible horrible event.  It killed millions, including many many non-Jews.  But like the Armenians before, and the Sudanese after them... we don't seem to learn the lesson.

Time for going gently...

Granton, I think that the antiSemite thing is harmful too. One of the groups I support is JATO, Jews Against the Occupation. So, I was wearing an old t-shirt that said A ghetto is a ghetto and Tear down the Apartheid wall.. I guess the person did not know JATO (they were not Jewish they later revealed) and he did not also read Honour the Warsaw ghetto uprising. So, this man comes up and starts calling me an antiSemite. So, I said Boker tov... ze be' seder.. whatever I rattled off. He must have thought I was speaking Arabic, because it did not help it made it worse. Finally, I said "I am a Jew". It still did not help, he called me a traitor and said saying anythign about the Israelis was antiSemetic.

However, facism is not restricted to Nazi Germany and we can discuss what it means in a broader sense, how we may or may be on that path, without it being a reference to Hitler. Facism is a political ideology, as are socialism, capitalism and communism, to name a few. I believe we need to ask ourselves if we are headed that way and, if the indications are strong, we can also ask ourselves if this is what we want for ourselves and our country. It is a responsibility as a resident and/or a citizen of Canada, a democracy, to participate in shaping who we are and what we do.

I agree, Motheroffive. We can definitelytalk about ideologies and political patterns and government types.... all that.

One can even talk about Germany in those decades...

Let me say first off I rarely ever raise the Nazi flag.  I hold the old Internet maximum that once it is flown a discussion is dead.  If I had left out the citation source there would have been no reference to that regime - unfortunately I am rather fussy about citations.

The words quoted discuss the loss of freedom not internment.  They raise the consequences of what occurs when people feel they can not voice their opposition to power - any power - without fear of repercussions, even the benign social consequence of not up holding the status quo.

That fear supports corrupt regimes whether they be political or corporate.  It is the fear that keeps employees from speaking out against company practices that do harm and creates the need for a "special" group labelled "whistle blowers".  In criminal circles such a person is labelled a "snitch" and this derogatory term has seeped in to the "normal" culture so that a co-worker will not speak out against another and that leads to priests, policeman and every day citizens shielding abusers, permiting abuse to continue and often escalating.

The diversionary tactics of dividing people by the colour of the sign they hold up in protest or place on a cheque are a means to distract from the issue at hand and if not recognized as a diversion become successful.  The real issues are lost amongst the multi-coloured flags.

Unwritten rules of who is allowed to voice concern - a Jew becomes a traitor for speaking about the Occupation, a government employee publicly branded a liar - should not be accepted.  In a free society citizens should feel comfortable in speaking out against destructive policies or abusive practices and those responsible held accountable.

LB

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.           Desmond Tutu