Redhead, you forgot one of the primary things......that a few weeks ago people were on vacation and now are back to busy lives.  

If you look in the media you will see less news as well, why, it is damn cold and people aren't doing gatherings outside.

so, in x hours/ day, there are y things to do...

Finally, there are a million causes and concerns that need attention, if one gets more attention for a while, then it will likely not sustain that amount of energy.

so...please do not presume 

I do not presume.

I also pointed out in another thread that the vacation time was significant, and that is why people jumped in and then jumped out of the situation.  That said,  does one just take up and then drop a social justice cause simply because of timing?  It is inconvienient to become truly engaged; and yes, one will have to commit not only tmie, but also resolve. 

It is a travesty to leap into a cause, and then leap away from it.  And it is telling; a charitable flavour of the month.  This is not  a committed, thoughtful way of acting/being. 

I may not be posting about Idle No More here. That does not mean I am not concerned. Please do not judge my actions, or lack thereof. You do not know what I am doing in real life or in other places.

I have watched here.  I make no presumptions about what people do in real life; I do observe action and non-action here.  When it is timely and convenient, I see a call to action.  But it is short-lived and justifications follow:

"we werer on vacation, and had some time to do one thing...."

"now we are busy, returning to work-a-day lives and less concerned with really important socio-politiacal-historical issues that a couple of weeks ago were important beacause we had time off from work but that now we are are back to work means that these really important issuses are now not wothy of our time,energy, effort and compassion."

We talked it out redhead, and then became interested in discussing other things instead, that's all. Why are you not more thankful for the discussion that did take place rather than lamenting that it has ceased?

Most Canadians liked the idea of having such a government in place. That's why as a nation we put them there.

Rich blessings.

Actually, RedHead, you make judgements each time you post. Above you can read a number

Regardless, the reality is that people can offer time when they have it, or never offer it knowing that there will be times they don't.

Oh please redhead. Tell us what we have been doing. I haven't seen you discussing INM. Where have you been? Why have you not been concerned? 

Still learning my way around this cafe, I like to look at new threads posted.  After reading yours redhead, I'm surprised that people even responded.  Even more surprised that I'M responding.  Threads, I thought, were to inspire discussion.  Your tongue lashing - and yes, it's full of judgments - is not a thread starter.  Sorry.  It's a killer. 

Welcome to Wonder Cafe, everinjeans. One thing you'll discover is that, as open-minded as Wonder Cafe claims to be, judgmentalism often raises its ugly head, and we're probably all guilty of it from time to time. Thus - God's grace! But generally speaking I think most of us try to play nice.

Writing about a cause on WC rarely suggests taking up a cause.  The lack of writing about it here also probably does not mean a cause is dropped.  Personally, I had more discussions about it IRL after the discussions died down here.  While discussions are not actions, it's not a cause I personally ever took up.

Hi redhead,

Silence is an integral part of any conversation.

At some point all of us need to stop talking and start listening.

Conversation here represents our "talking" phase.  Silence here represents our "listening" phase.

This will indeed be an accurate observation of some.  It will not be an accurate observation of all.  For all the strengths of discussion WonderCafe.ca provides discussion doesn't equal action.  And any action any may take can only be talked of here at WonderCafe.ca.

I'm not sure we should jump to conclusions.  WonderCafe.ca is only a part of our lives and not the totality of them.  I suspect that there is much that anyone of us do that will forever go unrecorded here at WonderCafe.ca (thankfully).

Agreed.  I expect that the best progress in all of that is not made talking about it on WonderCafe.ca.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Rather than casting moral aspersions, it might be useful to remember

a)Nobody can talk about only one topic and talk about it forever. They put you in a quiet place about that.

I notice redhead, you have not (at least for some time) written about Harper's refusal to permit Romany refugees, the loss of over a million jobs in the US last month, the maintenance of a torture camp at Guantanamo Bay - and I could go on for a thousand topics.

Why not? Is your need for self-righteousness fullfilled for the time?

b) I don't know whether you 've noticed it, Canada has a long history of racism. As well, it has a long history of governments not giving a damn about native peoples. There are two groups now who really don't care about native peoples. One is the racist majority. The other is the fossil fuel industry which stands to lose if First Nations get attention.

Put together big money and a fundamentally racist Canadian society, and what you get is appallingly lazy  and ignorant press coverage of what this is all about.

To put the blame on people who have been concerned enough about it to write and to call them self-righteous, is a stunningly self-righteous act in itself.

Sometimes it's the "grass roots" of the movement that actually puts the change in motion. Although we may like to claim it and run with it, sometimes the best we can do is step aside and not get in the way. Maybe that's supportive in itself. It may be more of our job to dispel the stereotypes that "our own people" have perpetuated over the last hundred years and to be prepared with an answer to reduce resistence.

And sometimes we cannot fix what we've broken. We've done enourmous damage to these peoples for a good 600 years. We cannot replace what we have destroyed.

But we can do something to help these people choose their own way.

Easily, the most sense you have ever made.
Bravo, sir.

How ironic is it when one is criticized for questioning when anoither starts a thread about qustioning the party line?

And how ironic is it when one who chooses to use language such as "these people", which clearly is derogatory, somewhat supports my premises.

Yes, self examination is difficult.  Yes, cultural reflection - historically is difficult by all accounts, and the re-telling of history is painful, but it must be said.

The argument to stand down, or stand by, is ineffective.  The decision to stand along side, and to speak up,  to step up, and to challenge what current government(s) are initiating is what needs to be addressed.  All heritages matter, but what matters most is a united, caring, thoughtful and informed approach to decisions made by a very small group of people who do not necessarily have our best interests in mind.

Having read through the thread in detail just to be sure, it might be worth pointing out that no one criticized you for "questioning." You were criticized for making your points in a way that comes across as both judgmental and presumptuous.

I haven't named it, but I will suggest it now, that I also find it rather passive aggressive...

...fyi -- for those who are unaware, it was I, Pinga, who started the thread re Questioning the Party Line.  I was engaged in helping walkers when I was on vacation, as I could and did have the resources available. I'm not sure if I was the one (or one of the ones implied in the opening post, but I definitely was in the party line comment

I did not make any prsumptions.  I made an observation.

You observed what was not there. You saw what was not there because you are presumptuous.

What you saw, all that you saw, was a decline in the posts for Idle No More. This is the sort of decline you can find for any thread in this whole forum - with the exception of Last Post.

Based on the observation, you presumed the decline happened because we were frivolous, self-righteous, and not really serious. You have no way of knowning that. And, if you are right, then I can give you a list of thousands of topics on which we are frivolous, self-righeous, and not really serious. Among them are included the existence of God, the message of Jesus, the role of prayer....

What a crowd of scum an featherheads we all must be.

Except, of course for redhead who will, being a serious person,keep this thread going all by herself.

If she doesn't, then she is self-righteous, frivilous and not really serious.

I shall watch this thread with interest.

The tenor of your posts suggested that (a) you presumed that people were jumping on a bandwagon when they discussed Idle No More and that (b) you presumed that people were jumping off that bandwagon when discussion of Idle No More stopped.

Whether it was your intention to "presume" or not (and I do acknowledge that you said in one of your posts that you weren't presuming), your language comes across as presumptuous.

You have been perceived to be saying that lack of discussion on Wonder Cafe is suggestive of lack of interest or involvement with Idle No More. That's presumptuous.

Perception is reality for those doing the perceiving.

.

I'm not attempting to either re-direct the argument or attack you personally.

I'm simply observing how people are responding to you and why.

At the risk of being attacked as you have redhead, I would suggest that Wondercafe is not a place to look for political or social action, but a discussion forum.  As such, people aren't going to get on the bandwagon about any issue for long...an exception being a response to some of the very personal stories of members here.

Idle No More and support for continued actions has to come from the grassroots and there are other organizations that can more effectively take up the call.  One of these is The Council of Canadians.

http://canadians.org/blog/?p=19040

Interesting Article

http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/idle-no-more/

Recent Events

http://www.cowichannewsleader.com/news/189582641.html

I've been an environmental activist for years, and have learned where and when to take a case for follow-up action.  WC is not a place to do that.  Facebook is actually more effective for alerting people to petitions, etc.

I believe Idle No More had some of its roots via a facebook page.

Unfortunately, we will have to bring about changes by the way we vote.  Giving the Harper government a majority has been a recipe for disaster in the area of human rights for First Nations People and others, not to mention the gutting of organizations that provide any kind of environmental oversight and protection.

Wonderful response Gecko. Completely agree with all of your post, spoken by someone with "boots on the ground" ( or is it "boots in the sea"??)

Gecko you have said it so well. Thanks.

How can we have an effective discussion in a place where there is judgement and presumption? Observation involves seeing something and identifying it without labelling it. An example might be: "I notice no one is talking about Idle No More lately. Why not?" or something like that. Instead, we got words like bandwagon, apathy, ethical atrophy. Further the following paragraph seems to make some big assumptions:

Perhaps I have read more into the OP than was intended. It just feels very judgmental and frankly, pompous. There is no redirecting really is there? Just responding to judgment.

So, maybe I will try to answer your questions.

• Legislation such as Bill C45, which is the big issue in INM.
• phony apology,
• calling those who question something like the Enbridge pipeline names
• etc

• listen to our FN brothers and sisters
• walk with them
• take their lead....they are "the oppressed" and need to claim their power. Sometimes that means we need to step off our pedestals. (I put oppressed in quotes because sometimes that language presumes the oppressor needs to fix the problem. That takes the power away from the group being oppressed)

• such is the nature of oppression - the guy in power wants the status quo and will do whatever it takes to maintain it

I don't think it is possible to tell how involved a person is in social action based on their participation in online discussions.  My psersonal participation is on a local and provincial level but not so much online here.

a side note - much of the attack on Idle No More is being pushed in the press, notably by Sun News with money and other help from  the oil and other extraction industries. Native peoples could cost them big money. They are quite willing to destroy them. And we all know who harper likes most of all.

What's going on is a very dirty fight.

I think that is a good point graeme. The Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline project is certainly being affected by the FN communities in the area. It is very convenient that Harper and his government have changed the rules mid-process. I understand that originally the FN groups have power of veto or power to make some decisions. Now all they can do is make recommendations. We all know how Harper likes "recommendations"....he can receive them and then make people think they had input when in fact they did not.

Good discussion.  To repeat or rephrase many of the above posts:

This is a forum ideally for sharing ideas and refining them (People like Revjohn do an awesome job on the refining part).

I hope that posters and visitors will note the arguments/ideas that are shared, and be influenced by that in what they do where they live, work, play, worship and shop.

For example, a Think Tank event on INM and related issues was held in the main downtown public library Sunday afternoon.  I was unable to attend because of a family commitment, but I submitted my responses to the issues that were raised and have started an online conversation with the organizer, a First Nations person.  Each Tuesday starting last Tuesday I am attending a series of presentations of various aspects of the oil/tar sands so I am better informed for other discusions and for finding ways to act on the related issues.

One reality is that people like our prime minister don't care what we post on this site as long as our discussions don't lead to action in the world at large.

Another reality is that social justice people are being confronted by dozens of different injustices, and we have to pick and choose which ones we feel able to affect.

I guess using this logic, or lack thereof, because I have not posted in the past month or so about it.... I do not care about sexual assault, domestic violence, AIDS, gays in Uganda, capital punishment.... starving children, puppies or ice cream... or heck even my wife.

Here is an action  people can get involved with if the spirit moves.

http://www.amnesty.ca/blog/february-14th-have-a-heart-day-in-support-of-...

In the OP you complain about the recent silence on WC when it comes to INM.

Then you make a post more about the issue itself, and try to get the topic back on that.  So why then delete it?

Hi Redhead

I'm interested in FN issues. There's only so much I can say about our  First Nations  people  that's not  repetitive. I've been scrambling to come up with fresh news when I was posting, a job in itself.

Looking over the board the FN subject  has done quite well considering there were/are  a lot of topics being discussed on the WC in general. There are 10 threads and 418 posts, a quick count on FN.

I've no idea how many lurkers we may have, meaning those reading our threads but not posting or replying. I believe there may be a fairly large number e.g. on a thread I posted on FN  I received 2 replies but there were 121 lurkers....ditto..one reply and 110 lurkers on another thread I posted. On some other threads of mine , not FN, there are over 500 to 1000 lurkers.

What I'm really trying to point out is that the WC has a fairly good   audience on the net  meaning that we are providing a wealth of information to the public at large. So.....I believe that although we may not be actively posting recently on INM we have certainly left our tracks in the sand for all to see and hear.

I'm sure when there is some "new News"  hopefully bright and  positive in 2013 we will be back again on WC  to tell the world about it and to rejoice with Idle No More and FN.

I do listen up........!!

Why don't you start a thread like Alex did about Roman Catholic priests and child molesting? He just adds to it, kind of like a blog. You could do something similar. Post links and ideas and stuff, for not everyone is as familiar as you--if it's an interest of yours you must know a lot about it.

Since the OP is entitled " Idle No More"  perhaps someone dropping in here will expect news on the topic. I was in R and F just now where GeoFee, George Feenstra  has posted a video of his own along with a hidden one on Idle No More also done by himself. He's done a good  job so I didn't ask.....I told him.....I'm stealing it to post here.

Thanks GeoFee!

You are welcome!

I am disappointed that redhead seems to have disappeared and is not participating in this discussion she started.....

Today there is one less aboriginal person in the Conservative government.  In this case, I don't think it's going to hurt INM.

Now, this I love!

Nathalie Restoule is a Sturgeon Falls student who organized an event at her school to educate the youth of her community on Bill-C45 and Idle No More. It was held today.

She said, "Many students are aware of  the Anishinaabe people who are protesting and are aware of the events that have been happening for the past while, for example: rally's, protests, roadblocks, and flash mob Round dances. But, the problem is many don't know the reasons Why we are doing things like that.
Many kids come up to me saying: "It's just a native problem" "It's pointless" "I don't get it" "Why are the indians doing everything if it's a Canadian problem" etc.
... And that's where I came up with the idea. Bringing what's been happening all over the world to my very own school. To have the uneducated, become educated. Bring our teachings there. I thought, If school is a place for educating individuals, it becomes a perfect environment for people my age to be aware of what's happening outside of the classroom, in society today.
At the end of the event, Everyone will come together and finish it off with a Round dance. A round dance is a Friendship Dance. It's a way to show everyone coming together. Spiritually nothing is stronger than that.
Change is here. Change is now. And I'd love for you to be apart of it! Miigwetch/Thank you.

Great job, Nathalie!

Great job Sturgeon Falls for understanding and allowing a student led and student supported endeavour..... Education at its best!

Awareness and Education can change the world.

awesome story, SG.  Thanks!

Good for Nathalie.....she's a singer, maybe we'll get another Buffy Sainte Marie. I love Buffy!  Lets give her more  publicity:

Quote from Nathalie:

I’m Nathalie Restoule! I’m 16 years old and a proud Aboriginal. I’ve been singing from a young age and will continue to do so, this is something that completes me and I love it!
I did it. I really did it! I won the New Sun Records Idol Contest! Grand prize: Package Deal with New Sun Records includes- Song demos; Full production, Image consultation, Styling and Photoshoot!!

https://www.facebook.com/NathalieRestouleMusic

On CTV News

Her videos- singing

http://www.youtube.com/user/Natresty/videos

Its a Good News Day......:)

Yukon First Nations Article: Feb.2013

Indigenous people across the world share many common challenges and hardships, but they can all look to the Yukon as an example of a place where First Nation people and governments are doing it right, if slowly. That’s the hopeful message professor Ken Coates gave in his keynote address to Whitehorse’s fifth annual First Nation Governance and Capacity Development Conference.

In 1970 there were only 200 aboriginal students at Canadian universities. Today there are more than 30,000.

To date, there have been 58 consecutive aboriginal victories on court cases involving resource rights. There have been six since December. What has happened, Coates said, is that the courts have, one by one, recognized the aboriginal right to have an influence over resource development.

“These court battles haven’t been won with aboriginal laws. They’ve all been won with Canadian laws. “All they’ve been doing is getting Canadians to pay attention to their own legal requirements.

” http://yukon-news.com/news/32137/

Just curious - has anyone been following posts about the Journey of Nishiyuu?  A group  of Cree youth who are WALKING from their reserve, mid-way along the east coast of Hudson's Bay, to Ottawa.  They anticipate arriving in late March, and others are joining and supporting them for portions of the journey.  Quite extraordinary. 

I find it disconcerting the way the denizens of this place will, on occasion rain down criticism (as they have here on Redhead) for making observations that are essentially correct but which are expressed in a style or tone to which they object.  I have seen this happen many times with Graeme as well and it has happened a few times to me too.  

The churchlady style "tut tutting" about "tone" is very off-putting and limits the range and richness of opinions that will be offered by posters in the future.  Redhead is a longtime poster whose posts are typically full of insight and concern for social justice.  Having met Redhead, I can tell you that she is a competent, keen and perceptive person whose opinions this site needs to have.  Here at Wondercafe, I've been noticing a narrowing of discussion topics and a thinning range of responses to them and wonder whether in our enthusiasm to avoid a bit of "rough and tumble" in our discussions, we have sacrificed a certain richness of thought and expression which is making this site feel a bit repetitive and bland.

By the way, I too have noticed a "lull" in the engagement of posters with FN issues and since the Idle No More movement has social justice implications for native and non-natives alike I too find it disconcerting to see things go quiet.  I admit that in this regard I am guilty as charged and I thank Redhead for pointing out that I (and, I think, others) can do better.

carolla, i haven't ...can you give a link?

Nishiyuu ... It is a sacred journey.

A little video ... 

A news story ...

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&v...

A CBC interview with a Cree Chief who walked part of the way with them ... This interview is a good one that dovetails with the You Tube video by Geofee above.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Shows/Quebec/ID/2327018700/

Its good to see the young people getting involved although I had to go put on a sweater........................brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........

Positive thoughts going out  to them that they will arrive safe and sound. Gosh...they deserve a chance to be heard in parliament. Its  a long journey.

Messages from all around the world to Canada , isn't that great!

Message from Colombia to First Nations

From our ancestral territories, the Nasa people, part of the Indigenous Movement of the Cauca, Colombia, honors the resistance of the Indigenous peoples of Canada.
We join your struggles and your genuine actions of resistance against the occupation and dispossession that are being imposed in favor of the multinationals and the project of Death.

So glad you are acknowleding this, qwerty, because you lashed out at me last spring in a very nasty manner....I left WC for awhile to do some real-world activism.   You were also the reason another poster left WC - it appears permanently.  You attacked her in the very same manner that redhead is being atttacked.  What goes around comes around......

I felt sorry for redhead, and posted a bit of a defense for her.

As for my return to WC, one person won't keep me away from doing what I wish.

A good reason to support the Idle No More Movement.  This young woman is amazing.

Courtney, BC, December 2012.