I think Harper has offended so many democratic principles that we are starting to become use to it.

Isn't the NDP filing contempt of Parliment  charges, because they refuse to release basic information on the budgets.

AGain they insult charges by claiming the NDP is secretly supporting Independance for Quebec. One  MP is (I suspect others too) are supporting the Quebec Solidaire as it is the only progressive party in the next provincial election , and while they support independence they are also putting it on the back burners.

I have also heard that some people have register the name Quebec NDP as a provincial party in order to ensure it remains available for left wing federalist/non independance types, for the provincial election after the next one.

But still the Tories insult Canadians  by claiming the Quebec members support the people they defeated in the last election. 

I mean where does it stop, am I missing something.  I disliked Mulroney but as least he tried to show he believed in some democratic principles.

I am counting on a steep drop in their polls numbers, (I can dream can't I) followed by the defections of 10 MPs to force an election. 

I was thinking about raising it… but, god, it's hopeless: Canadians seem oblivious…  befuddled… uncomprehding… uncaring… 

The Opposition can impede this for some hours but almost certainly they cannot stop it. It isntitutionalises poverty and injustice and drives a spike into the heart of environmental responsibility.

And the problem is that, even if there's a massive switch in givernment at the next election, so much of what has been hopefu;, devent, just and wise in Candada will never be able to be re-established. we're seeing Canada vandalised as a sacrifice to mammon and big oil. It's heart-sickening.

i thought C-38 was passed in 2004, 2005?

It was, InannaWhimsey. =)

so then what's all the hub-ubb from graeme aboot?

It's about using the Budget to freight through into law a raft of changes, not conventionally considered "Budget" items, that should be debated as separate Bills… debate would subject them to public scrutiny and critique but Budget documents are kept under wraps until the last minute to prevent speculation in the markets.

This way, Budgets become public only once they have become law … to misuse this by stuffing a Budget full of social policy changes amounts to a very flagrant abuse of democratic principles and practice. It can be done because the majority government can get away with it (provided there are no rebellions in the ranks) and is cynical and opportunist enough to do it.

Where are you getting this information from?

I've been reading about the Bill and Elizabeth May's efforts to stall it....but most Canadians seem unaware of its implications....or don't care.

From the Toronto Sun...

Poll

• 40%
• Yes, it is way too large.

• 59 votes

• 7%
• Maybe, seems like there are unrelated items in it.

• 10 votes

• 45%
• No, just pass it the Tories have a majority anyways.

• 66 votes

• 7%
• Not sure, I have no idea what is in it.

• 10 votes

Whimsey, it's been in the news for several weeks. 

I've heard anxiety bout it written off as "just politics" but "just politics" is how you run a country and, if people don't pay attention, after a while it's not a democracy any more.

There's a LONG list of macro and micro management steamrolling in this Budget and it shouldn't happen. But just watch… 

Have you read it yourself?

Leadnow.ca is holding demos accross Canada. Look here for one in your community.

https://www.facebook.com/events/394252233945585/

http://heroes.leadnow.ca/search/

On Wednesday, June 13th at 5:30PM local time, while our MPs gather in Ottawa for a decisive showdown in Parliament, we’ll rally their home ridings, and communities across Canada, to call for 13 “hero” Conservative MPs to work together and stop the Bill, split it, and start over

I have slogged through quite a bit of it.  It is intentionally heavy writing so as to thwart even the most pedant of legislators and watch dogs - of which there are very few left and fewer will exist after this bill gets passed.

Omni legislation is designed for that sole purpose:  Hide the voracious beetles among the many trees - to put an environmental flavour to the proceeding.

There is an even more insidious reason for hiding these drastic changes to government operations in a Budget.  Traditionally a No vote on a budget bill means a Non-confidence Vote.  A non-confidence vote means the dissolution of parliament and an election called.  The writers' of the bill are banking on the reality that few politicians or Canadians want another election.

How everyone behaves in this debacle will define the future of this country.

Here is the short form of the most sweeping changes ...

More Details on Bill C-38

Here is the actual Bill ...

Parliament of Canada Bill C-38

Canada is particularly prone to be seen through a mythical lens
      Kathleen Lahey, Professor of Law, Queen's University, 2012

big heavy *sigh* with a couple of tears.  Canadians voted for this, and the support, though weakening, has been apathetically solid.   I have not heard substantial arguments in favour of our Conservative government.  I have heard nothing except 'good for economy' but with NO quality argument.  Right now, that is what I want to hear.

 I know 35+ hard and fast instances/reasons why I hate this government.  I made a list last year, and have only had more reasons to add.  So I don't need more substance on that, but I haven't heard anything from the other side to support their actions except the same droning repetition to pacify people - steady the ship, keep the course, support the economy - it doesn't have basis that I can see.  Their policies are refuted by a remarkably widespread number of 'experts' including their own, and Reformers, and even Texans for God's sake.  SO where is the substance that keeps their support up?

7 years ago, I was pretty excited about where Canada could go.  That is destroyed now.

I do not believe that the behaviour of the Conservative government has hurt it among many of those who voted for it. It has only made those against even more so, and perhaps resigned to what they are doing. This is a bad tactic I believ because with those who voted against the Conservatives in the last elction are not very likely to vote for for them next time, since there hearts have harden.  That is a problem for them becasue evry governement looses support due to scandals and other measures. They need to have some of those who voted against them last time to vote for them to wing again.

The byelection in Calgary could end up being a tight race, because while it is in Calagry, it has a lot of city types who are LGBT, immigrants and young people.  Just as the LIberal governement of Quebec lost a byelection this week in a riding that has been Liberal forever, due to discontent and scandals, the same might happen in Calgary, and even it they win in a close election, it might signal to the tories back benchers (esp old Red toireis or more likely oportunistic ones) that they could do better   by fighting the governements agenda or even jumping ship to the LIberals. Especially if the NDP continue to lead in the polls the oportunistic back bencher could justify a switch to the LIberals in order to stop the "socialist hoards" especially if the Liberals take a social and environmentaly progressive, while taking a fiscally conservative position on taxes and spending. The oportunistic back benchers could see what is coming and hope to obtain a seat in a LIberal cabinet if they are among the 7 tory backbenchers it would take to switch sides and vote to defeat them.,  

So have faith, things could change quicker than we expect it to. (at least thats what I am hoping for)

I begin to despair of the Canadian people. Much of the problem is illusions they have about the history and natures of Canada, the US, the world in general. there are myths that profoundly affect their thinking (as in George Washington believed all people were equal).

There is not sense at all of how North american became wealthy. No. It wasn't brilliant and courageous entrepreneurs. it was conquest and plunder, just like all other empires in history.we have dangerously played out the string for those myths.

What we are living through now is something very much like the fall of Rome. And, we go through this stage, we are inflicting terrible suffering on the whole world as well as most of our own populations.

And I can only wonder where the tell the churches are in all this. I don't expect them to tell people what to think. I don't want them to to do that. But they surely do thave the ressponsibility to help us see things in a Christian context.

Right now, we are seeing a militrization of Canada, something already far advanced in the US.This is 1984. It really is. and we are militarizing to fight endless wars to benefit billionaires - and to fight our own people if they get difficult about it.

I despair of our churches which cannot seem to find any moral issue in all this, and I desprair of our faith and religion section which wastes so much of its time on trivia.

Wrong

now, that's got my attention.

According to the Ottawa Citizen, Prime Minister Harper is becoming “increasingly isolated” as more and more Conservatives speak out against his anti-democratic attempt to remake our society.

The outrageous nature of this bill is provoking incredible statements from conservative politicians. Former Cabinet Minister Tom Siddon said: “We don’t understand why you have to roll this all into one bill and ramrod it through Parliament. ... This is unbecoming of the Conservative party to which I belonged.

If you would like to take a positive step against this bill visit the site below and send a message to Mr. Harper and more importantly Conservative MP's

http://www.leadnow.ca/13heroes

One of the problems of the omnibus bill is that it passes a law to bring Canada into line with US border protection legislation. Canadians might what to consider what that means.

Quite apart from the very obnoxious treatment of tourists at the american border these days, "border control" now extends through the whole country. that is, police in any state or city of village can, for no reason at all, stop you, question you, search you - perhaps deport you - or even detain you for further questioning. Who knows? Maybe your name looks like the name of somebody who supported the wrong candidate in the last election. Or, as member of the United Church, you might be associated with its activities in favour of groups that might be pro-terrorist.

In short, the border laws have made the whole US a police state. Are you in  a big hurry to see that in Canada? we're inches from it.

I thought it might.

I hold democracy and honesty very dear, and value them quite highly.  I was not impressed with the way the CWB (Canadian Wheat Board) is being dismantled.  Not that I'm a fan of the board, but it's supposed to be up to the farmers that control it. 

Then the omnibus bill comes along.  If it's a good piece of legislation, let be openly debated in parliament.  Period.

I don't like it when someone tries to mess with my democratic rights, and I hold a grudge.  And, yes, I have told my MP.

anxiety has real effects

it's a mind boggling time to be alive

So is this omnibus bill that was passed bill C-38?  If so, how can they pass it again?  How does that work, am I missing something?

LBmuskoka,

thanks for the info, btw :3  That's a Lord of the Rings book there!

I also agree that the government, particularly Harper, but Baird, Flaherty, Oda etc are not winning votes with regular conservatives at this point.  In the States, they talk about the Tea Party splittting the Republicans and driving some more to the middle, dangerously close to crossing sides.  Just yesterday in MSNBC, Jeb Bush (JEB BUSH!!!!)  was warning Republicans of being too small minded, too crazy right-wing,. 

look - they've eliminated yesterday's story and replaced it with this one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47787310#.T9sYh8V3Gsw   and they really gutted it.  I wish I'd shared the story yesterday.  

Here - this has more of it: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/12/12186518-jeb-bush-walks-it-back?chromedomain=nbcpolitics ... quote: President George Bush, and Reagan would struggle with ‘an orthodoxy that doesn’t allow for disagreement.

Anyway - here in Canada, we have the Globe & Mail, National Post, and countless other papers slagging government policies for being undemocratic and narrow-minded, oh, and I've seen Macleans headlines that didn't sound so much like Harper's Fan Magazine as they have in recent years. 

I really really want to hear a good argument for this Bill, or any of the other things they've done, but I hear none.  I ask - what is good?  And the answers are '... blah blah strong economy..." - but that is not entirely true, and certainly not in the sectors not directly tied to oil & gas.  Much of our banking strength came before their government.  So - either clarify HOW Harper has designed this budget to be good, or stop using that red herring.    The only other thing I hear is 'mandate to govern'.  Which means nothing really, except they have all the power to push through whatever they want.

Just tell me why this is good policy, please.

The experts tell me it is bad.  Texas tells me the prison idea is bad.  Scientists would say it is bad, but they get muzzled.  The critics and activitists would tell me it is bad, but they are enemies of the state apparently.  Suzuki, our modern day enivronmental prophet, had to split from his followers so he can still speak.  Just today, Parks Canada employees were warned not to criticize the government at all, anywhere, in case someone was listening.  Apparently, if you protest in a forest, with only the trees to hear, Harper is still listening. 

So if all the arguments I hear are that Bill C-38 is wrong, and the only support for it is slimy rhetoric, how can I be anything but visciously angry today?

I'll second that emotion ...

Someone took this picture earlier this week. WHen the eye appeared

ROFLMRTTO!

Birthstone, you have expressed my sentiments quite well. Last night I was following Twitter as a way to see what was happening. It is on my BlackBerry, so a reasonably good way to see what is happening. I asked my MP, Bob Zimmer some questions and retweeted some tweets. Instead of answering questions, he blocked me. I understand he has blocked other consitutents who do not toe the party line. I have also learned that other MP's have done the same. This is sad and an indication of our current government's attitude.....if you're not for us, you're against us.....and a lefty.... Apparently the CPC sang "We are the Champions" when they left the house. They also were heard chanting "Harper, Harper, Harper"......sounds more like a high school football team that people who are supposed to be leading us.

The way this bill is being pushed through is a great concern. If the parts that were snuck in were so good, why are they hiding them?

proud of beating those who opposed them.  Lovely. 

There was a editorial cartoon of a shattered (glass) Canada with a bloody hammer lying on it, printed with "Harper" on the  handle.  It described my heart today. 

Where should we move?  Mexico even looks good right now.

Birthstone

So pick your front line, your shelter

The world is always changing; civilizations could have a lifetime of around 200 years, life will die out on this planet of natural causes in around 1 billion years, our sun will 'die' in around 5 more billion years, most of what you call you isn't you at all but things like bacteria, universe is blinking in and out of existence faster than we can perceive and through all this we persist in thinking of things as uniform, lasting, permanent :3

the Jews know the score of reality :3

Well Northwind your story illustrates perfectly what I have been thinking, namely, that in order to be a successful as a Conservative MP one must be a thoroughgoing "yes man"  toadying bootlicker otherwise one does not survive in the over-controlled top down culture Harper has spawned.  Rarely is victory an emblem of weakness but Harper has managed change an easy victory into an unforgettable political liability on this one,  creating deep alienation that cuts across both class and party lines.  

Ah, InannaWhimsey, I understand your confusion.  Yes there was a C-38 that passed in 2005.  It was the Civil Marriage Act ... yup, that was the one that legalized same sex marriage. 

Good thing I am not a conspiracy nut or I would be wondering about the Cons choosing the same Section Title ;-)

Here is an image to give one hope or despair ... it is from around 1881

The hope is ... Canadians survived that one.

The despair is .... we never learn.

Sir John
Oh! Tupper, there are times when I can feel
That truth and justice, and the countries weal,
Should be prefered before a party gain.
Come! shall I plead, old friend, with you in vain?
Shall we withdraw the contract?

Tupper
What! and stand
The laughing-stock of Grits throughout the land?
No! no! still no! a thousand times, still no!
The Contract stands for weal or stands for woe

      The Secrets of the Syndicate (1881)

That isn't the image that comes to my mind, but my mind is sometimes much darker.

If this debacle isn't enough to concern people this should ....

Parks Canada staff banned from criticizing Feds
Workers told they have 'duty' to support Harper government

And some gentle reminders from a "traditional" conservative PM

I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear ...

Freedom includes the right to say what others may object to and resent. . . The essence of citizenship is to be tolerant of strong and provocative words.

      John G. Diefenbaker

*still groovin to Sigur Ros' "Glosoli"*

(yes, and I fondly remember the shenanigans that Paul Martin did to get that bill passed -- something that if the Conservatives did, I wouldn't be as gleeful aboot)

So I learn something new-- that once a Bill designation is passed, that doesn't mean that particular designation can't be used for some other Bill in the future...

My understanding that with each new Parliament (or possibly after each Throne Speech?) the count begins again at 1.  And so this bill is the 38th presented by the current Parliament....

Of course I copuld not have a clue what I am talking about....

Economics is a moral issue!

Hi graeme,

I am opposed, in principle, to omnibus bills and block motions.  I am of the opinion that a law which is so poor that it cannot hope to stand on its own does not become better or stronger by tieing it to another piece of legislation.

I understand the political mind that sees omnibus bills or block motions as expedient and/or necessary.  I don't agree with them but I can understand them.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I joined with others (many from an event organized around religion) holding a protest sign in front of an MPs office Wednesday evening.  'Stop the Umnibus', 'Kill Bill C-38", etc. 

Does that count?

Damn right, it does.

I don't think we begin to recognize the extent to which we, in the western world, have been destroying democracy and human rights. The US uses secret lists to spy on millions, prevent them from trravelling, leaving the country, etc. I have a strong suspiction that similar action is included in the omnibus bill. That seems clear from the title of one of the bills.

Governments are increasingly under the control of business elites. We got a sample of t heir thinking two days ago when the British chancellor of the exchequer said that poverty among the children of the poor is their fault, and is only made worse by helping them. (No. I am not making that up.) 

We are watching the impoverishing of hundreds of millions throughout the western world in order to make the rich richer. Poverty, forgiveness, compassion, understanding are becoming criminal.

This is a moral issue.

3 cheers for Seeler!  Good for you! 

We didn't stand at an MP's office - but my son & I took a pic of ourselves with "Stop Bill C-38" and uploaded it to Leadnow's website.  We had fun doing it, and seeing it in the slideshow of people everywhere. 

Worth Reading......

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/stephen-harp...

Thanks for the info, GordW :3

I like the placards, seeler -- Kill Bill is too funny -- did anyone dress up as the Bride?

hmm, i didnt read all the liberal comments here, i did notice however on the news and such, much complaining of it being a BIG bill, and having the MP stay long hours, i havent heard much criticism of what is in the bill, what i have heard seemed postive if i recall , i do consider that they have examined what is in the bill, it just seems like there isnt to much opposition except for the long hours...

i dunno.

is it really a 'trojan horse'?

a trojan horse with kittens and bows in it?

is there anything in the bill that concerning to  us or is it just that its a BIG bill and a busy time for MP's?

when next election time comes, people will remember the smooth time we had when the world was in financial turmoil, many will vote harper again, i think we can expect another majority.

i think some here may want to emotionally prepare themselves for such a outcome.

how is liberal mcguinty doing anyway? helping the poor? i dont think ontarians are going to think of 'liberal' as being serving and helpful to the poor, isnt liberal mcguinty reposnsible for more cuts to social programs to help at a 'ground level' than any?

i dont know.

i hear lots of talk.

My big question as a "liberal" is why do they have to hide so many changes to policy under a "budget bill" . Many of those changes have nothing to do with the budget. If these changes are so good, why not put them out in the open? Do you have an answer for that Stephen?  Does anyone?  

A budget bill with the following:

• authorizing American law enforcement officers to enforce the law in Canada
• getting rid of many, if not all, oversight positions 
• removing of most environmental protection processes
• limiting the waterways protected by various acts including the Fisheries Act
• weakening food protection processes and oversight
• changing the age at which people can obtain Old Age Security
• allowing foreign workers to be paid 15% less than the going rate in any sector
• slashing research and science budgets 
• disregarding the legal obligation to consult with aboriginal peoples
• cutting programs fundamental to the health and well-being of Canadians and our country while continuing to provide the corporate sector with extremely low taxes

I feel very confident that people will wake up virtually every day for at least the next year and learn about something else that's been lost through the Trojan Horse Bill - a trojan horse being something that appears to be one thing while bringing in some else entirely unexpected.

I'm not a 'liberal', but I'm not a supporter of the bill.  There are aspects I like,  aspects that I'm against, and some that I don't really have much of an opinion on.  With such a large bill, I'm sure there are  things that I would have a strong opinion, but I simply do not know about them.  That's the overall issue with such large bills.

Here are two articles I think are worth the read ...

From the Globe and Mail

Stephen Harper and the tyranny of majority government

an exerpt ....

There is a fundamental issue of democracy here. There should be no illusions about the almost unlimited power of a majority government in Canada. Barack Obama, the most powerful man in the world, has nothing like the unilateral power of Stephen Harper. It may have taken a little longer for the Prime Minister to pass his omnibus “budget” than he liked, but pass it will, as will everything else he wants to do. None of the defunded organizations will get their money back. None of the silenced watchdogs will get their voices back. Environmental groups will soon feel the full wrath of this petrol-fixated government.

This is hardly an original conception of majority rule. Pierre Trudeau shared it too. Once he won his majorities, Mr. Trudeau argued, he was free to act as he chose; if people didn’t like it, they could vote him out at the next election, Until then, buzz off (or words to that effect). Mr. Trudeau’s reputation will forever be scarred by his imposition of the notorious War Measures Act, but even he accepted that Canadian democracy was strengthened by a vibrant, enabled civil society. So did those tough old warriors Brian Mulroney and Jean Chrétien.

For 2,500 years, political thinkers from Plato to Tocqueville to John Stuart Mill to Lord Acton – the same Acton who understood that “power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely” – warned against the danger in a democracy of the tyranny of the majority, where the rights of the minority count for nothing. The issue has especial resonance for Canada. Where a formal majority is actually gained with a minority of the vote, as is the norm in this country and as Stephen Harper did in 2011 with 40 per cent, the minority is actually the majority of the citizenry.

*****************

and the article mentioned in the above

Voices: The campaign against advocacy and dissent deepens

an exerpt ....

There is what I often refer to the “you are with us or you are evil” orthodoxy.  You either obediently agree with government policy or initiatives or you risk vilification and near public flogging.  Prisoner transfers and torture in Afghanistan?  You are with the government or you are a passionate supporter of the Taliban.  Online surveillance legislation and privacy concerns?  You are with the government or you are an advocate for pedophiles and the abuse of children.  Northern Gateway Pipeline?  You are with the government or you are a traitor to your country, a virtual ecoterrorist, accountable only to the demands of your foreign funder and puppet master.   Increasingly, to be concerned about the environment is to be against Canada.

Charity means silence and compliance.  Recent statements and initiatives coming out of this year’s federal budget make that clear.  For charities, advocacy is a peril like never before.  Too feed the poor or to clean up an environmental mess is charity.  To ask challenging questions about the roots of poverty, or question the economies and political decisions that cause environmental disasters in the first place is not.  The backdrop here of course is government threats to re-examine and possibly revoke the charitable status of groups who too vigorously question government policy, particularly with respect to hot button issues like the tarsands, pipelines and environmental protection.  The wider implications are enormous.

Most at risk, the most marginalized.  The brunt of this siege is not felt by the business community, or the middle class.  It has fallen squarely on the shoulders of those living in poverty, Indigenous peoples, women, the homeless, people living with disabilities, children, the elderly.  Witness the staggering cuts to funding in the recent budget for a range of Indigenous health promotion and advocacy programs run out of pretty well all of the national aboriginal organizations.  Witness also the astounding campaign of stalking and retaliation that the indomitable Cindy Blackstock has endured because of her advocacy for the rights, safety and equality of First Nations children.

[...]

We have never before seen or experienced something of this nature.  This isn’t just about shifting priorities and approaches as one government’s agenda gives way to the next.  What we are witnessing is a systematic onslaught against what I think is a bedrock principle that most Canadians believe – that it is in all of our common good to ensure that all voices are able to be heard on crucial issues.

***********************

Woe to those who enact evil statutes
         And to those who constantly record unjust decisions,

     NASB Isaiah 10:1

error

Here's another view from those "radicals" out in Winnipeg

The birth of a banana republic

By: Frances Russell

Posted: 05/2/2012

excerpt (click title above for full article)

In most parliamentary democracies, the government answers to Parliament. In Canada, Parliament answers to the government.

Many trace Parliament's decline back to 1969, when then-Liberal prime minister Pierre Trudeau declared MPs became "nobodies" once they were "50 yards from Parliament Hill."

Parliament itself is now the "nobody."

Parliamentary committees do the bulk of parliamentary governance. Away from the partisan clashes of question period and major debates, MPs are expected to work collegially for the public good.

Under Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservatives, committees have become highly polarized and hyper-partisan. Shockingly for a democracy, they now operate mostly in secret, away from the electorate's prying eyes.

A secret democracy isn't a democracy.

[....]

Add Canada's dysfunctional first-past-the-post voting system to wholesale adoption of American political tactics including voter suppression, the permanent campaign and continuous attack ads and you have a banana republic in the making.

*******************

If Ottawa giveth, then Ottawa can taketh away.
      Stephen Harper