She has raised $49,599.00 for herself on the net from telling her story. Her goal is $55,000.00.
For sure I agree that living in poverty is very difficult but I'm not sure about the begging on the net bit. Her story is totally all over the net on many websites. I wonder if she has any relatives and whether or not her husband receives a disability pension or any source of help.
I know she didn't ask for the money but she didn't turn it down either. She's asking for more.
Linda is a completely average American with two kids and two jobs. She also writes essays on poverty and class issues, which is really a skill she only realized she had a week ago. Her husband served honorably in Fallujah with the USMC and struggled with PTSD, and she has experience in veterans’ issues.
She currently works as a night cook at a national chain restaurant and as a voting rights activist for a disability nonprofit. She has a background in campaign politics, food service, the bar industry, and snarky Internet comments. She hopes someday to personally and with love give the finger to Rahm Emanuel.
Her scattered background gives her a view from the inside about what it’s like to live in the lower classes of America.
She is an amateur wonk and news junkie, and has a solid understanding of the larger issues surrounding poverty. She’s lived in every sub-strata of the lower class and brings a unique perspective to discussions of class issues and poverty.
I didn't know that. Well, if she gets it I hope she uses it well to improve her life and others in poverty. She just might. If people want to give it to her, so be it. She pointed out her short comings and potential for failure, and they still wanted to invest in her. Because they connected with her on a human level. A lot of wealthy businesspeople gather investors by schmoozing, for projects that don't improve the lives of people, they only make the wealthy and powerful more wealthy and powerful, just because they are known names and the fact that they have lots of money already makes them magnets for more money. People invest in consumer gadgets and projects, or make cases for investment in such things, that have no redeeming moral or human value, and no guarantee of success, all the time. That's not exactly fair, and no one accused them of being beggars. It's not like they all worked hard for what they have (some have but many haven't), they just were born into wealthy families or were very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. I don't think she's as hopeless as the story conveys- because she wrote the article and had it published on a popular news site. That shows she hasn't given up. The irony is glaring. She is obviously intelligent. She goes to school. She just wanted to convey what hard reality looks and feels like at it's worst moments. Perhaps there is 'value' in conveying that understanding? And the ease with which the super wealthy make more money, just makes the criticism of this woman making money from her story, ironic.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 01:56
It's interesting to me that people will jump all over her for not being perfect. She gets more criticism than a wealthy investor or businessperson would, for understandable, imo, failures. We seem to want to help poor saints, not real blemished human beings, and the shortcomings of good looking wealthy people schmoozing to keep up appearances at cocktail parties, where people drink too many Brandy Alexanders and Cosmopolitans and snort lines and have tawdry affairs, falls off the radar of criticism for the most part- it's become a coveted symbol of 'success' to be on that side of the fence- and the world keeps on going with the same economic injustices- backed up by those elites. Equally human, but with more money, so they're okay, but she isn't- in this world. One thing she wasn't doing, was striving for that version of success. And if that's the only version that this current world is set up for, then she accepts her lowly place. Reminds me of the stories of the camel and the eye of the needle, or the Phonecian woman. Unmerited grace. People don't tend to approve of it. It's an interesting case study.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 03:19
I went to the funding site link, stardust. She raised over $50,000 in 9 days for writing a little story about what real poverty (financial and emotional) in North America looks like. It has more redeeming value, perhaps, than what a lot of people do for money. People have written trashy short novels about nothing and made more money. Sitcoms, game shows, stupid movies- meaningless, but accepted. Granted, she did it in 9 days and it was unplanned. People win lotteries and move to Florida and noone gives them shit over it (meanwhile lotteries entrap the poor with minute chances of winning). This isn't much different- yet, it is, because she put herself out there, with no expectations. Good for her. She did do something. She told her story, and that of millions like her. They're not saints, they're not really 'bad' either, they're just people struggling with poverty in a society where the deck has been stacked against them. It's hard work. She works long hours just living. She doesn't have time to be a saint- yet, maybe it will turn out that she is a saint waiting to happen. I hope, like I said, she uses it for good. People need to understand the real struggles, that they don't experience, of other people.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 11/24/2013 04:14
Instead of living by the old, outdated worldview of 'have someone else pay you to work yourself out of a job', kudos to her to be willing, able & lucky enough to find a way of adding & sharing value (which is what matters--that's really the only reason we love WC--we`ve come to value each other) with other people...
universe bless the internet, capitalism, and the laws of reality...
(If anyone feels jealous of her...what's keeping you back? ;3)
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 04:56
It's not traditional capitalism, Inanna. She hasn't really presented a 'product' on the free market, that she's trying to convince people is 'worthy' of investment because it'll yield financial profit. It's different from capitalism. It's a lucky break, for her, and maybe others whose life she touches- and has nothing to do with deserving or undeserving. Just humanness. She hasn't promised a high return on their investment. She didn't even ask for investment. She asked for understanding. She's simply told her story. And others are sharing their money with her- "spreading the wealth", because they identify with her humanity, nothing more. It's 'scandalous' because there's nothing particularly heroic about the story that would 'earn' her the favour of others. She's just a regular person telling the common everyday story of being poor in America. Maybe people are surprised to learn that her life is worth something, even though she's a nobody, she's a somebody. Very interesting and not a perspective on helping others that's respected in our society- the 'just because they're human, warts and all' perspective.
graeme
Posted on: 11/24/2013 12:15
It is not possible to have served honorably at Fallujah. That's probably why he has PTSD.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 19:57
Perhaps. Unless he went because he was poor and hopeless and got rooked into it in a shopping mall parking lot- like so many young men have (saw the Michael Moore film- those poor kids think they're being given 'opportunity'). I don't blame them- not all the soldiers- some have been completely appalling in behaviour we've learned. I imagine that that would be traumatic for the soldiers with a shred of decency, to be around that and there's nowhere else to go. Maybe he got there, then realized he really didn't want to be there. But the story's about her, and poverty in general. We don't know what happened to him there. Besides, are you suggesting that PTSD depends on how just or unjust the war is? Or that it happens to 'bad guys'. I don't think so. It's about extreme fear and trauma.
stardust
Posted on: 11/24/2013 21:29
Hi Kimmio
I'm not against anything you are writing. Its just that I had the unfortunate experience of being on a forum where we supported a woman who had anorexia and was dying since 2003. She's on many websites. Xanga is her main website where she writes and collects money for herself and her family. She's supported by people on the net sending her money, gifts, trips, groceries, and whatever...who knows. She is sick...yes...as well as her family....but the problem is that the begging goes on and on non stop for over 10 years now. It has made me cautious. I hope you understand.
(Jenny is a young girl, maybe family, no high school, no job, no money, who has to stay with Nanny ( Nancy). Her Mom is there too, its hard to keep track of who is who. Her dad she seldom sees, he's remarried)
I understand. Huffington post is a reputable (mostly) site, though. That's where I read the story. I would like it if they followed up. Not saying that begging is a way of life (although Jesus and his disciples lived off the hospitality of others- there's nothing inherently wrong with people sharing what they have just because they want to- maybe she doesn't have a family who can support her. Noone criticises children of wealthy parents who have their needs provided for, even in adulthood if they can't do it on their own. It's almost 'expected', except not everyone is born fortunate like that) what about the high falutin' ' beggars? Sellers of whatever (doesn't matter if it's good or not, just that it turns a profit) and investors hustling deals?
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 00:06
Kimmio
What bothers me is that the lady said she had raised $49,599 and that her goal is $55,000. She has another blog, something about quitting work if I can find it. Its all right but its not all right if you know what I mean.
When people ask for money on the net it is best to send a gift certificate for them to a grocery store in their area, something like that.There are so many anonymous people on the net. Even having their names and email addresses doesn't prove their identity or their truths.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/25/2013 00:13
I don't see an issue with things like gofundme or kickstarter. From what I saw it's not just for her to live off of, but to publish a book. It's common for many entrepreneurs to take some type of salary from their business. People have the choice as to whether they want to invest in a project. While this isn't a typical investment, it's still a similar idea.
Personally, I won't be contributing to this. When there was one of these campaigns for My Drunk Kitchen and it surpassed the goal very quickly, the project was greatly expanded (from America to International) alone with the goal funds.
I see here that she has increased her goal to $100000. I don't see any increased project to match. It's her right to set it up as she pleases, and it's my right to not contribute.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:22
If it's for a book, that's okay... I know what you mean stardust. It's just that she told people how it is, warts and all, she said, "here I am. I'm poor and I make bad choices," and they still gave her money. She didn't promise anything...that's up to them. They didn't have to give it to her.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:20
Kimmio
She updated her blog. She's almost written a book on it about her past life and family. It seems that she wasn't or isn't writing about her present day life. She was making "observations" about the life of poor people. There are 172 comments and some honestly poor people are extremely angry altho' I've only read 20 comments.
I copy/pasted a lot of her recent writing to read in case it disappears. She's very interesting. She's upping the donations to $150,000 or more now as high as they wish to go. Someone advised her to take the bad comments off the board. She's not on Huff. Post writing this.
I don't know what to think about her. I actually like her and what she says but I'm not sure how honest she is. People say she can give the money to charity now...why wait? She's quite attractive. I can't help but wonder if that helps her cause? You can't see her bad teeth or ugliness she speaks of about herself.
Usually we want to give to people who are blameless and struggling which is understandable. But that's just it. Nobody's perfect. Personally, it doesn't bother me. She told a story of down and out, and she told it how it is. She's got kids who need a future hope and she's doing her best. A combination of stories that are the "everywoman" in poverty story. Not a heroic story. Other people invested in her well being because she's telling an honest story- semi-autobiographical about poverty. They wanted to give her money. They can do whatever they want with it. She is not making them. If she does some good telling this story, all the better. If she was a poor person who wants to write a science fiction novel, but you didn't know her circumstances, would you question? What about the woman who wrote Harry Potter. Rags to riches. Did she deserve the support more to get her started? Is this story less worthy of being heard and her efforts less worthy of being financially compensated? If she was not poor herself but just a middle class woman who's worked with poor people abd wanted to raise money fo write about the knowledge she's gained second hand, would that be okay? When's it ethical to ask for money for a project, and when is it not? Is it when you are essentially the project? Who's undeserving of survival and who's entitled to a good lifestyle? It makes me think. If it was your child who just needed a boost to get out of poverty and you were wealthy, would it bother you? I will say that I don't think she's hopeless, like she writes in the article. She's quite motivated. And I think she wants to tell the story to help others, not just herself. People in poverty are usually not heroes or saints, just people. But she's being upfront. She's not promising to be a success.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:51
Kimmio
Agreed....but did you read the update...its miles long...and the comments....!!!! Here is what is making the really poor people angry. I'm not saying they need to be angry but they are. I am presuming that many poor people have not completed high school, may have disabilities etc. while she went to college and had therapy that cost a lot of money, that kind of thing.
Quotes from her recent updated blog:
And that is the answer to the question many of you have asked. How is it that someone with such clarity and evocation has any right to assert that they are poor? It is likely untrue. Well, it is and it isn't. You have to understand that the piece you read was taken out of context, that I never meant to say that all of these things were happening to me right now, or that I was still quite so abject. I am not. I am reasonably normally lower working class. I am exhausted and poor and can't make all my bills all the time but I reconciled with my parents when I got pregnant for the sake of the kids and I have family resources. I can always make the amount of money I need in a month, it's just that it doesn't always match the billing cycles.
During the course of therapy, they tested my IQ. You have to understand that it isn't actually terribly impressive. It is higher than average, to be sure. But my mother grew up quite poor in Detroit and she is very impressed by these things and so she decided that I was a genius. And she nurtured it. She is a teacher. I was given music lessons and she learned languages with me.
I have no aptitude for dance or art, but we tried those too. I was in competitions when I was five, and they lasted until college. And so that is how I know how to talk to people who are in the upper middle class. Because I got a partial scholarship to Cranbrook but we couldn't afford the other half. But my parents knew damn well what Cranbrook was and they were determined that I would have a chance at it. They gave up much to send me to private schools. Not expensive ones, I went to a small religious elementary. They taught me much about Satan and also had strict academic standards for the ten kids or so in every grade.
I spent some time bouncing in and out of school and joined my first political campaign. It was amazing. And so I went for it. I moved all over the country and chased jobs and found that I was never quite a good fit, because I never have fit in anywhere entirely. And when it wasn't campaign season I worked pretty much whatever I could find. It's not high pay compared to relative expense until you're pretty well-established, particularly if you are not good with money.
I was poor in the way that most people who do not have resources are when they are young and idealistic. I didn't mind it much. I thought it would end when I was ready. And so that is how I know things about media and framing and what sort of good I can do and how to pick stories out of shared experience.
When my parents came to be there for the birth and they saw what we were dealing with they moved us to Utah and gave us a trailer to live in. And then when we had our second and final daughter they helped us find a house to live in and now we have some space for once. That is the sort of person I am. I chased dreams that I couldn't afford for longer than was strictly necessary, and only gave that up when children made life suddenly more stable.
But fate is a chancy thing, and I am after all perfectly suited to write about poverty. I have been privileged while poor, because I am fucked up and spent decades in therapy, because I have been given access to these words, I am well-suited to this. I do not speak for everyone that makes the same amount I do. I speak for many of us. Those are different, and I do not confuse them. I did not think that I would ever do better than scrape by, but I am managing that without relying on charity.
Be very clear about this, please: I am quitting one of my day jobs. The one that is an hour's drive through snow in the mountains. And I have actually nailed a bigger contract with my second job, which pays better hourly anyway. This has given me the tiny break I needed to be able to make it without utter exhaustion. I will use the extra time to sleep more than I am used to. I will see my kids more because now I can work from home, and so our budget is expanded because childcare is not an issue. Tom is keeping his job. This is all magic and wonderful, but it is fleeting. We have learned and are careful now. And we have more than us two relying on us taking this oddity and using it wisely.
Okay. Yes, I see what you mean. She's not as hopeless as she made it seem, by the original article. She's better off than many. Still, she should write the book. Maybe she is still suited to write a book about poverty though. She's been "working poor" not as destitute as some. She's a poor idealist. I can kind of relate. She reminds me of a starving artist. She's free spirited. I don't think she's a bad person.Was it Van Gogh who had a wealthy patron who funded him to live and do his work because he saw something in him he liked, but who never made a single dime off of art sales until after he died? Who was that again? And she has had good opportunities given to her that others haven't. But she has also got something of her own. She doesn't fit the mainstream and that's why she's poor but she works hard. Now she's a decent writer who got noticed and can possibly advocate for those worse off than her. I think her intentions are good. Trying to look on the bright side. I can't say that any of the poor writers who've struggled to get their work out there, while working odd jobs- maybe catching lucky breaks by people who see a glint of talent in them, are more worthy than her. Their worth has been measured after the fact, though. Hers is being specualted ahead of time. She says she's going to use this opportunity wisely and I really hope she does.There have probably been many writers who gave up their day jobs and failed as writers too, and ended up worse off personally than before. But society is dull and change never happens, if they're not allowed to try. We don't hear about them. If 'gofundme' had existed I'm pretty sure many of the great culture changing writers of past times would have used it, and the maistream would have still balked at it.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 03:04
Funny, the more I read of her story the more I connect with her. Oviously others do too. She has issues, she admits as much, but she's real. Not every flaw in a person is fixable. And I like her anyway. I like the way she tells her story and I believe her. She should tell it. And I wish her the best.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 11/25/2013 03:25
Kimmio wrote:
Funny, the more I read of her story the more I connect with her. Oviously others do too. She has issues, she admits as much, but she's real. Not every flaw in a person is fixable. And I like her anyway. I like the way she tells her story and I believe her. She should tell it. And I wish her the best.
i enjoy her writing
she's better than a million Popes t'me
(i wish her billions and billions of dollars)
i delight and feel righteous anger against those who are 'upset' at her; understandable (some very, very powerful & old human programs, like fairness morality, herd mentality, marxism, self-hatred, hatred of success, love of failure, etc), but quite a silly waste of time, where sombunall people can make a living off of selling 'nothing'...
ty for bringing this to our attention here
tis another example of the world that is abirthin', one where a completely invented modern decentralized, unforgable currency, BitCoin, is now being adopted, bit by bit, by 'real businesses', where jobs are slowly coming to be what they should've been, creating and sharing value with others...
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 13:12
Oh yes....I like her too. Its O.K. by me if she gets lots of bucks.....
Someone commented on her site that being poor ( in today's world ...?) means being like those families who live in Orlando Florida near Disney World. There are 6 or more people living in one seedy hotel room with kids and dogs, nobody is working. The kids dig in the garbage bins to find toys and treasures. They are surrounded by squalor, drunks, hookers etc. Its not safe. The parents have to travel to find work or simply have bad luck and are stuck on welfare. Some schools provide food for the kids.
People definitely identify with Linda especially those living in the big cities. Lots of people have to work 2 or 3 part time jobs to survive. Its the new normal? The big companies can avoid paying employee benefits by hiring part time. I believe statistics say that most working people are at least $40,000. in debt...?...something like that...so yes, many many people are struggling. They are one or two pay days away from being on welfare I read if they are suddenly out of work.
We've already read the basic story of Linda's life on her blog ( she gave a lot away) so she'll have to embellish the stories for her book. Somebody said she went to Vegas (Twitter?) now to celebrate her good luck so I agree with that. Vegas is terrific.
I must run and see if she's added to her blog today.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 14:07
Linda has now raised $60,103.00. I'm pretty sure she will help people , she'll pay it forward.
However, the articles below are what I was thinking about re a definition of poverty. I've watched CBS and such programs on TV in the past. I'm not sure if her book can help them or if they can afford to buy it?
Huff Post 2012:
According to the U.S. Department of Education, at least 2,000 children live in the hotels of Central Florida, and that's not counting the untold numbers who are too young to go to school, or who have dropped out, or who have otherwise escaped notice, as many undoubtedly have
. Families make up the fast-growing segment of America's homeless population. Thousands live in hotels. The Department of Education has identified 47,000 hotel kids in schools around the country, and says that the number of homeless kids in public schools has increased by 38 percent since 2007. In Central Florida, it isn't uncommon to hear of 19 or 20 hotel kids in a class of 22 at the local schools.
Joe - the hotel manager:
He'd been around on the streets; he'd seen things. And yet when he showed up to the hotel in the early months of 2009 he couldn’t believe his eyes. "I picked up 48 syringes off this property in the two days I walked in," he recalled.
Four years later, the place was still "pretty rough around the edges," he said. He was especially vexed about the infestation of drug dealers on the fourth floor, a problem that he blamed on a strange Florida law that restricts the sheriff's office from evicting people on criminal grounds.
According to the National Center on Family Homelessness, Florida has one of the worst child homelessness rates in the country. Nearly 84,000 kids in Florida call the streets home.
Parents fight over what to do with the scarcity of money they have. Children often blame themselves for the predicament their in. Families who are forced to live in cars stay in hiding from the police and DCF agents, fearing that if DCF found out about there predicament, they will take their kids away.
This is the new homeless in Florida. This is not the same smelly old guy with outgrown fingernails and horrible smell. These are your co-workers, your schoolmates. There are families that take sink baths at gas stations. Cook on a $20 George Foreman grill for a family of five in a 325 square foot motel room. The guy that hold the sign asking you to give may just be trying to scrape up enough money to feed his two kids.
This is the hidden homeless.
In a place that caters so much to children, there are thousands of kids going to bed hungry, coming home from school to a motel or worse...to a car. That is why the CBS report was so shocking. Not that because it opened the eyes of Americans that Orlando was having so many problems with homelessness. But it opened the eyes of many people in Central Florida that did not know that this problem ever existed. This is the new homeless in Florida.
HBO did a documentary on this. It was kids that live in Orange County, CA, which is one of the wealthiest areas in the nation. It was SAD! They had lice and bed bug problems, cops always at the hotel and all the kids had emotional issues and were spiritally broken. They asked the kids at the the end, "What you do have to look forward too?" and the every child answered "Nothing."
Poverty in Hong Kong - people live in cages, its not applicable in U.S. I know.
You are too kind and too sweet. You make me laugh, I can't help it....:).
You missed the chance to help send poor Tina Shang to Africa but I'm sure she may want to travel again in the future...lol. She's all over the net if its the same person. She hasn't said how much money was raised for her Africa trip, only that it was 121% She seems to be a good person involved in a lot of causes, an activist.
I need desperately to get paid for doing all my research on these people ...?....my detective career. I'm hoping gofundme will take up my cause...... I own a goat and a hen. It is how I'm able to survive.
Horror thought...what if she and Linda are the same person....my bad...too bad...!!!!
Mar 8, 2013 - I am turning to Go Fund Me and my friends to raise the remaining funds needed to make a once in a lifetime dream, a reality. I have been given ...
What the heck. If people want to fund your 'research' would you turn them down? I'm sure you'd help others, whatever you did. :)
This is really interesting, people getting "paid" to be themselves and do what they really want to do. Novel idea. I didn't read about Tina wanting to go to Africa, no. But if this site is for 'begging' (writing proposals/ pitching campaigns it's called in business world) to help make dreams come true, or dream projects complete, and people are willing to give away their money for it- I suppose, why not, right? The 'American Dream' without the sweat and toil, it's personally engaging and interesting, and can go far in helping philanthropy and charity projects, all kinds of good possibilities, by cutting out the overhead. People have to know they take risks when giving their money away, that's all. There must be some way the site follows up to make sure it's legitimate. Maybe people would be dishonest about their intentions. But, if you can go there and say you want money to collect paper clips all day to end poverty, and people are willing to pay you for it- well, so be it. Maybe that paper clip collector could become a philanthropist hero. You never know. I see people giving their money away for nothing playing Keno all the time. Just flushing it down the drain. Kind of sad, like those video slots almost. They sit in the corner of a place near me, must be for hours, dazed, winning only a few bucks if they're lucky. At least a much higher probability exists by taking this risk, that this will benefit another human being directly. I don't have a good idea to propose, myself. It'd have to be something worthwhile. I've though of a few inventions and business ideas in the past and never followed through because I'm really not business or tech minded and would have no idea how to get it from the idea stage to the complete stage. I'm a bit of a scatterbrain. Maybe I could write the great Canadian novel though: "Adventures on Wonder Cafe". Lol.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 02:00
Just read Tina's page. That's kind of awesome, actually. I think so.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 02:13
I read some other stories. That site really puts a smile on my face. Unfortunately, there are many without access to a computer who couldn't do this. Someone should go on "gofundme" to raise money to start a non-profit in that gives people computer access and educates poor people about how to share their dreams on 'gofundme'.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 02:25
What an amazing site. You know, beyond Lisa's story, I didn't look into the site too much. Had only heard about crowd sourcing. Skies the limit on the good this could do. And just generally help people feel connected, worthwhile, cared about by others, and little more hopeful and joyful about living their dreams. A new frontier.
stardust
Posted on: 11/26/2013 14:20
Kimmio
I apologize for goofing around and making fun. I just googled the gofundme site. Its true we have free will to spend our money whatever way we wish to. There is billions spent on lotteries as just one example. I don't know if Chansen reads here. He needs to raise money for a special bike that costs $4200....??.......for Carter.
Some poor kids in our schools do get free home computers, no details on it. Perhaps you should head up something in gofundme for free computers for the poor ? You buy them and have them shipped to whoever? You could request their T4 slips re their incomes before shipping and some references that they are truly needy. ( You might need to open a business bank account)
The most popular categories on GoFundMe, which Damphousse founded in 2010, are medical illness and healing; volunteer and service; and education, schools and learning.
Yeah- there are lots of good ideas that could be done! Not sure if I'd be ready to take on the kind of big project you (or I) suggested- but it does inspire ideas, for sure. Many people and groups can reach many other people and groups with this fundraising tool.
tinashang
Posted on: 12/03/2013 00:21
Sorry I missed the conversation. I stumbled across this a few days ago but couldn't post until my account was approved before responding. I appreciate the kind comments.
I honestly don't know what to think about all of the rumors and accusations flying around about Linda, but I think regardless of how all that ends she started an important conversation and I want to do my part to keep it going.
I started a blog if you all would like to visit I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and discussing the topic more.
I have been browsing t his site. There are some interesting conversations going on here, but the platform is a little awkward to move about. I am learning though.
Kimmio
Posted on: 12/06/2013 01:51
Hi Tina- yes, wonder cafe can be an interesting place! Welcome! Is there something in particular you're having trouble getting the hang of on WC, that we can help with? I still have trouble from time to time, formatting my posts. The comment box can be a bit confusing.
tinashang
Posted on: 12/06/2013 21:57
I am sure I can figure it all out if I just had more than five minutes to sit down and explore the site. I am heading into finals week at school and about to pull my hair out, maybe during my short Christmas break I can get on and find my way around and comment on some of the other topics. =)
Comments
stardust
Posted on: 11/23/2013 23:57
Hi Kimmio
She has raised $49,599.00 for herself on the net from telling her story. Her goal is $55,000.00.
For sure I agree that living in poverty is very difficult but I'm not sure about the begging on the net bit. Her story is totally all over the net on many websites. I wonder if she has any relatives and whether or not her husband receives a disability pension or any source of help.
I know she didn't ask for the money but she didn't turn it down either. She's asking for more.
http://www.gofundme.com/59yrak
stardust
Posted on: 11/24/2013 00:04
Update from huffpost:
Linda is a completely average American with two kids and two jobs. She also writes essays on poverty and class issues, which is really a skill she only realized she had a week ago. Her husband served honorably in Fallujah with the USMC and struggled with PTSD, and she has experience in veterans’ issues.
She currently works as a night cook at a national chain restaurant and as a voting rights activist for a disability nonprofit. She has a background in campaign politics, food service, the bar industry, and snarky Internet comments. She hopes someday to personally and with love give the finger to Rahm Emanuel.
Her scattered background gives her a view from the inside about what it’s like to live in the lower classes of America.
She is an amateur wonk and news junkie, and has a solid understanding of the larger issues surrounding poverty. She’s lived in every sub-strata of the lower class and brings a unique perspective to discussions of class issues and poverty.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 01:16
I didn't know that. Well, if she gets it I hope she uses it well to improve her life and others in poverty. She just might. If people want to give it to her, so be it. She pointed out her short comings and potential for failure, and they still wanted to invest in her. Because they connected with her on a human level. A lot of wealthy businesspeople gather investors by schmoozing, for projects that don't improve the lives of people, they only make the wealthy and powerful more wealthy and powerful, just because they are known names and the fact that they have lots of money already makes them magnets for more money. People invest in consumer gadgets and projects, or make cases for investment in such things, that have no redeeming moral or human value, and no guarantee of success, all the time. That's not exactly fair, and no one accused them of being beggars. It's not like they all worked hard for what they have (some have but many haven't), they just were born into wealthy families or were very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. I don't think she's as hopeless as the story conveys- because she wrote the article and had it published on a popular news site. That shows she hasn't given up. The irony is glaring. She is obviously intelligent. She goes to school. She just wanted to convey what hard reality looks and feels like at it's worst moments. Perhaps there is 'value' in conveying that understanding? And the ease with which the super wealthy make more money, just makes the criticism of this woman making money from her story, ironic.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 01:56
It's interesting to me that people will jump all over her for not being perfect. She gets more criticism than a wealthy investor or businessperson would, for understandable, imo, failures. We seem to want to help poor saints, not real blemished human beings, and the shortcomings of good looking wealthy people schmoozing to keep up appearances at cocktail parties, where people drink too many Brandy Alexanders and Cosmopolitans and snort lines and have tawdry affairs, falls off the radar of criticism for the most part- it's become a coveted symbol of 'success' to be on that side of the fence- and the world keeps on going with the same economic injustices- backed up by those elites. Equally human, but with more money, so they're okay, but she isn't- in this world. One thing she wasn't doing, was striving for that version of success. And if that's the only version that this current world is set up for, then she accepts her lowly place. Reminds me of the stories of the camel and the eye of the needle, or the Phonecian woman. Unmerited grace. People don't tend to approve of it. It's an interesting case study.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 03:19
I went to the funding site link, stardust. She raised over $50,000 in 9 days for writing a little story about what real poverty (financial and emotional) in North America looks like. It has more redeeming value, perhaps, than what a lot of people do for money. People have written trashy short novels about nothing and made more money. Sitcoms, game shows, stupid movies- meaningless, but accepted. Granted, she did it in 9 days and it was unplanned. People win lotteries and move to Florida and noone gives them shit over it (meanwhile lotteries entrap the poor with minute chances of winning). This isn't much different- yet, it is, because she put herself out there, with no expectations. Good for her. She did do something. She told her story, and that of millions like her. They're not saints, they're not really 'bad' either, they're just people struggling with poverty in a society where the deck has been stacked against them. It's hard work. She works long hours just living. She doesn't have time to be a saint- yet, maybe it will turn out that she is a saint waiting to happen. I hope, like I said, she uses it for good. People need to understand the real struggles, that they don't experience, of other people.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 11/24/2013 04:14
Instead of living by the old, outdated worldview of 'have someone else pay you to work yourself out of a job', kudos to her to be willing, able & lucky enough to find a way of adding & sharing value (which is what matters--that's really the only reason we love WC--we`ve come to value each other) with other people...
universe bless the internet, capitalism, and the laws of reality...
(If anyone feels jealous of her...what's keeping you back? ;3)
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 04:56
It's not traditional capitalism, Inanna. She hasn't really presented a 'product' on the free market, that she's trying to convince people is 'worthy' of investment because it'll yield financial profit. It's different from capitalism. It's a lucky break, for her, and maybe others whose life she touches- and has nothing to do with deserving or undeserving. Just humanness. She hasn't promised a high return on their investment. She didn't even ask for investment. She asked for understanding. She's simply told her story. And others are sharing their money with her- "spreading the wealth", because they identify with her humanity, nothing more. It's 'scandalous' because there's nothing particularly heroic about the story that would 'earn' her the favour of others. She's just a regular person telling the common everyday story of being poor in America. Maybe people are surprised to learn that her life is worth something, even though she's a nobody, she's a somebody. Very interesting and not a perspective on helping others that's respected in our society- the 'just because they're human, warts and all' perspective.
graeme
Posted on: 11/24/2013 12:15
It is not possible to have served honorably at Fallujah. That's probably why he has PTSD.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 19:57
Perhaps. Unless he went because he was poor and hopeless and got rooked into it in a shopping mall parking lot- like so many young men have (saw the Michael Moore film- those poor kids think they're being given 'opportunity'). I don't blame them- not all the soldiers- some have been completely appalling in behaviour we've learned. I imagine that that would be traumatic for the soldiers with a shred of decency, to be around that and there's nowhere else to go. Maybe he got there, then realized he really didn't want to be there. But the story's about her, and poverty in general. We don't know what happened to him there. Besides, are you suggesting that PTSD depends on how just or unjust the war is? Or that it happens to 'bad guys'. I don't think so. It's about extreme fear and trauma.
stardust
Posted on: 11/24/2013 21:29
Hi Kimmio
I'm not against anything you are writing. Its just that I had the unfortunate experience of being on a forum where we supported a woman who had anorexia and was dying since 2003. She's on many websites. Xanga is her main website where she writes and collects money for herself and her family. She's supported by people on the net sending her money, gifts, trips, groceries, and whatever...who knows. She is sick...yes...as well as her family....but the problem is that the begging goes on and on non stop for over 10 years now. It has made me cautious. I hope you understand.
(Jenny is a young girl, maybe family, no high school, no job, no money, who has to stay with Nanny ( Nancy). Her Mom is there too, its hard to keep track of who is who. Her dad she seldom sees, he's remarried)
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2013 21:52
I understand. Huffington post is a reputable (mostly) site, though. That's where I read the story. I would like it if they followed up. Not saying that begging is a way of life (although Jesus and his disciples lived off the hospitality of others- there's nothing inherently wrong with people sharing what they have just because they want to- maybe she doesn't have a family who can support her. Noone criticises children of wealthy parents who have their needs provided for, even in adulthood if they can't do it on their own. It's almost 'expected', except not everyone is born fortunate like that) what about the high falutin' ' beggars? Sellers of whatever (doesn't matter if it's good or not, just that it turns a profit) and investors hustling deals?
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 00:06
Kimmio
What bothers me is that the lady said she had raised $49,599 and that her goal is $55,000. She has another blog, something about quitting work if I can find it. Its all right but its not all right if you know what I mean.
When people ask for money on the net it is best to send a gift certificate for them to a grocery store in their area, something like that.There are so many anonymous people on the net. Even having their names and email addresses doesn't prove their identity or their truths.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/25/2013 00:13
I don't see an issue with things like gofundme or kickstarter. From what I saw it's not just for her to live off of, but to publish a book. It's common for many entrepreneurs to take some type of salary from their business. People have the choice as to whether they want to invest in a project. While this isn't a typical investment, it's still a similar idea.
Personally, I won't be contributing to this. When there was one of these campaigns for My Drunk Kitchen and it surpassed the goal very quickly, the project was greatly expanded (from America to International) alone with the goal funds.
I see here that she has increased her goal to $100000. I don't see any increased project to match. It's her right to set it up as she pleases, and it's my right to not contribute.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:22
If it's for a book, that's okay... I know what you mean stardust. It's just that she told people how it is, warts and all, she said, "here I am. I'm poor and I make bad choices," and they still gave her money. She didn't promise anything...that's up to them. They didn't have to give it to her.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:20
Kimmio
She updated her blog. She's almost written a book on it about her past life and family. It seems that she wasn't or isn't writing about her present day life. She was making "observations" about the life of poor people. There are 172 comments and some honestly poor people are extremely angry altho' I've only read 20 comments.
I copy/pasted a lot of her recent writing to read in case it disappears. She's very interesting. She's upping the donations to $150,000 or more now as high as they wish to go. Someone advised her to take the bad comments off the board. She's not on Huff. Post writing this.
I don't know what to think about her. I actually like her and what she says but I'm not sure how honest she is. People say she can give the money to charity now...why wait? She's quite attractive. I can't help but wonder if that helps her cause? You can't see her bad teeth or ugliness she speaks of about herself.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:54
Usually we want to give to people who are blameless and struggling which is understandable. But that's just it. Nobody's perfect. Personally, it doesn't bother me. She told a story of down and out, and she told it how it is. She's got kids who need a future hope and she's doing her best. A combination of stories that are the "everywoman" in poverty story. Not a heroic story. Other people invested in her well being because she's telling an honest story- semi-autobiographical about poverty. They wanted to give her money. They can do whatever they want with it. She is not making them. If she does some good telling this story, all the better. If she was a poor person who wants to write a science fiction novel, but you didn't know her circumstances, would you question? What about the woman who wrote Harry Potter. Rags to riches. Did she deserve the support more to get her started? Is this story less worthy of being heard and her efforts less worthy of being financially compensated? If she was not poor herself but just a middle class woman who's worked with poor people abd wanted to raise money fo write about the knowledge she's gained second hand, would that be okay? When's it ethical to ask for money for a project, and when is it not? Is it when you are essentially the project? Who's undeserving of survival and who's entitled to a good lifestyle? It makes me think. If it was your child who just needed a boost to get out of poverty and you were wealthy, would it bother you? I will say that I don't think she's hopeless, like she writes in the article. She's quite motivated. And I think she wants to tell the story to help others, not just herself. People in poverty are usually not heroes or saints, just people. But she's being upfront. She's not promising to be a success.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 01:51
Kimmio
Agreed....but did you read the update...its miles long...and the comments....!!!! Here is what is making the really poor people angry. I'm not saying they need to be angry but they are. I am presuming that many poor people have not completed high school, may have disabilities etc. while she went to college and had therapy that cost a lot of money, that kind of thing.
Quotes from her recent updated blog:
When my parents came to be there for the birth and they saw what we were dealing with they moved us to Utah and gave us a trailer to live in. And then when we had our second and final daughter they helped us find a house to live in and now we have some space for once. That is the sort of person I am. I chased dreams that I couldn't afford for longer than was strictly necessary, and only gave that up when children made life suddenly more stable.
But fate is a chancy thing, and I am after all perfectly suited to write about poverty. I have been privileged while poor, because I am fucked up and spent decades in therapy, because I have been given access to these words, I am well-suited to this. I do not speak for everyone that makes the same amount I do. I speak for many of us. Those are different, and I do not confuse them. I did not think that I would ever do better than scrape by, but I am managing that without relying on charity.
Be very clear about this, please: I am quitting one of my day jobs. The one that is an hour's drive through snow in the mountains. And I have actually nailed a bigger contract with my second job, which pays better hourly anyway. This has given me the tiny break I needed to be able to make it without utter exhaustion. I will use the extra time to sleep more than I am used to. I will see my kids more because now I can work from home, and so our budget is expanded because childcare is not an issue. Tom is keeping his job. This is all magic and wonderful, but it is fleeting. We have learned and are careful now. And we have more than us two relying on us taking this oddity and using it wisely.
http://www.gofundme.com/59yrak
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 02:50
Okay. Yes, I see what you mean. She's not as hopeless as she made it seem, by the original article. She's better off than many. Still, she should write the book. Maybe she is still suited to write a book about poverty though. She's been "working poor" not as destitute as some. She's a poor idealist. I can kind of relate. She reminds me of a starving artist. She's free spirited. I don't think she's a bad person.Was it Van Gogh who had a wealthy patron who funded him to live and do his work because he saw something in him he liked, but who never made a single dime off of art sales until after he died? Who was that again? And she has had good opportunities given to her that others haven't. But she has also got something of her own. She doesn't fit the mainstream and that's why she's poor but she works hard. Now she's a decent writer who got noticed and can possibly advocate for those worse off than her. I think her intentions are good. Trying to look on the bright side. I can't say that any of the poor writers who've struggled to get their work out there, while working odd jobs- maybe catching lucky breaks by people who see a glint of talent in them, are more worthy than her. Their worth has been measured after the fact, though. Hers is being specualted ahead of time. She says she's going to use this opportunity wisely and I really hope she does.There have probably been many writers who gave up their day jobs and failed as writers too, and ended up worse off personally than before. But society is dull and change never happens, if they're not allowed to try. We don't hear about them. If 'gofundme' had existed I'm pretty sure many of the great culture changing writers of past times would have used it, and the maistream would have still balked at it.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 03:04
Funny, the more I read of her story the more I connect with her. Oviously others do too. She has issues, she admits as much, but she's real. Not every flaw in a person is fixable. And I like her anyway. I like the way she tells her story and I believe her. She should tell it. And I wish her the best.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 11/25/2013 03:25
i enjoy her writing
she's better than a million Popes t'me
(i wish her billions and billions of dollars)
i delight and feel righteous anger against those who are 'upset' at her; understandable (some very, very powerful & old human programs, like fairness morality, herd mentality, marxism, self-hatred, hatred of success, love of failure, etc), but quite a silly waste of time, where sombunall people can make a living off of selling 'nothing'...
ty for bringing this to our attention here
tis another example of the world that is abirthin', one where a completely invented modern decentralized, unforgable currency, BitCoin, is now being adopted, bit by bit, by 'real businesses', where jobs are slowly coming to be what they should've been, creating and sharing value with others...
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 13:12
Oh yes....I like her too. Its O.K. by me if she gets lots of bucks....
.
Someone commented on her site that being poor ( in today's world ...?) means being like those families who live in Orlando Florida near Disney World. There are 6 or more people living in one seedy hotel room with kids and dogs, nobody is working. The kids dig in the garbage bins to find toys and treasures. They are surrounded by squalor, drunks, hookers etc. Its not safe. The parents have to travel to find work or simply have bad luck and are stuck on welfare. Some schools provide food for the kids.
People definitely identify with Linda especially those living in the big cities. Lots of people have to work 2 or 3 part time jobs to survive. Its the new normal? The big companies can avoid paying employee benefits by hiring part time. I believe statistics say that most working people are at least $40,000. in debt...?...something like that...so yes, many many people are struggling. They are one or two pay days away from being on welfare I read if they are suddenly out of work.
We've already read the basic story of Linda's life on her blog ( she gave a lot away) so she'll have to embellish the stories for her book. Somebody said she went to Vegas (Twitter?) now to celebrate her good luck so I agree with that. Vegas is terrific.
I must run and see if she's added to her blog today.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 14:07
Linda has now raised $60,103.00. I'm pretty sure she will help people , she'll pay it forward.
However, the articles below are what I was thinking about re a definition of poverty. I've watched CBS and such programs on TV in the past. I'm not sure if her book can help them or if they can afford to buy it?
He'd been around on the streets; he'd seen things. And yet when he showed up to the hotel in the early months of 2009 he couldn’t believe his eyes. "I picked up 48 syringes off this property in the two days I walked in," he recalled.
Four years later, the place was still "pretty rough around the edges," he said. He was especially vexed about the infestation of drug dealers on the fourth floor, a problem that he blamed on a strange Florida law that restricts the sheriff's office from evicting people on criminal grounds.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/19/homeless-children-disney-world_n_1420702.html
CBS News Report
According to the National Center on Family Homelessness, Florida has one of the worst child homelessness rates in the country. Nearly 84,000 kids in Florida call the streets home.
Parents fight over what to do with the scarcity of money they have. Children often blame themselves for the predicament their in. Families who are forced to live in cars stay in hiding from the police and DCF agents, fearing that if DCF found out about there predicament, they will take their kids away.
This is the new homeless in Florida. This is not the same smelly old guy with outgrown fingernails and horrible smell. These are your co-workers, your schoolmates. There are families that take sink baths at gas stations. Cook on a $20 George Foreman grill for a family of five in a 325 square foot motel room. The guy that hold the sign asking you to give may just be trying to scrape up enough money to feed his two kids.
This is the hidden homeless.
In a place that caters so much to children, there are thousands of kids going to bed hungry, coming home from school to a motel or worse...to a car. That is why the CBS report was so shocking. Not that because it opened the eyes of Americans that Orlando was having so many problems with homelessness. But it opened the eyes of many people in Central Florida that did not know that this problem ever existed. This is the new homeless in Florida.
The hidden homeless.
Lacey, Oregon,USA, 2 years ago
HBO did a documentary on this. It was kids that live in Orange County, CA, which is one of the wealthiest areas in the nation. It was SAD! They had lice and bed bug problems, cops always at the hotel and all the kids had emotional issues and were spiritally broken. They asked the kids at the the end, "What you do have to look forward too?" and the every child answered "Nothing."
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 15:26
Kimmio
Please read Tina Shang's story:
She is also a wonderful intelligent writer who would like to have
a gofundme account. She is also deserving?
(Linda has responded to her on the blog)
http://tinashang.kinja.com/hi-i-saw-your-link-i-think-this-is-fantastic-the-thi-1470931220/@killermartinis
Edit - Scroll up on the website for Tina's story
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2013 16:55
Oh, ya. She is too of course.
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 18:08
Kimmio
You are too kind and too sweet. You make me laugh, I can't help it....:).
You missed the chance to help send poor Tina Shang to Africa but I'm sure she may want to travel again in the future...lol. She's all over the net if its the same person. She hasn't said how much money was raised for her Africa trip, only that it was 121% She seems to be a good person involved in a lot of causes, an activist.
I need desperately to get paid for doing all my research on these people ...?....my detective career. I'm hoping gofundme will take up my cause.....
. I own a goat and a hen. It is how I'm able to survive.
Horror thought...what if she and Linda are the same person....my bad...too bad...!!!!
Once In A Lifetime Opportunity in Africa by Tina Shang - GoFundMe
stardust
Posted on: 11/25/2013 18:13
Edit: The Africa link above didn't work. I'm posting it again.
http://www.gofundme.com/SendTinaToAfrica
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 01:56
What the heck. If people want to fund your 'research' would you turn them down? I'm sure you'd help others, whatever you did. :)
This is really interesting, people getting "paid" to be themselves and do what they really want to do. Novel idea. I didn't read about Tina wanting to go to Africa, no. But if this site is for 'begging' (writing proposals/ pitching campaigns it's called in business world) to help make dreams come true, or dream projects complete, and people are willing to give away their money for it- I suppose, why not, right? The 'American Dream' without the sweat and toil, it's personally engaging and interesting, and can go far in helping philanthropy and charity projects, all kinds of good possibilities, by cutting out the overhead. People have to know they take risks when giving their money away, that's all. There must be some way the site follows up to make sure it's legitimate. Maybe people would be dishonest about their intentions. But, if you can go there and say you want money to collect paper clips all day to end poverty, and people are willing to pay you for it- well, so be it. Maybe that paper clip collector could become a philanthropist hero. You never know. I see people giving their money away for nothing playing Keno all the time. Just flushing it down the drain. Kind of sad, like those video slots almost. They sit in the corner of a place near me, must be for hours, dazed, winning only a few bucks if they're lucky. At least a much higher probability exists by taking this risk, that this will benefit another human being directly. I don't have a good idea to propose, myself. It'd have to be something worthwhile. I've though of a few inventions and business ideas in the past and never followed through because I'm really not business or tech minded and would have no idea how to get it from the idea stage to the complete stage. I'm a bit of a scatterbrain. Maybe I could write the great Canadian novel though: "Adventures on Wonder Cafe". Lol.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 02:00
Just read Tina's page. That's kind of awesome, actually. I think so.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 02:13
I read some other stories. That site really puts a smile on my face. Unfortunately, there are many without access to a computer who couldn't do this. Someone should go on "gofundme" to raise money to start a non-profit in that gives people computer access and educates poor people about how to share their dreams on 'gofundme'.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/26/2013 02:25
What an amazing site. You know, beyond Lisa's story, I didn't look into the site too much. Had only heard about crowd sourcing. Skies the limit on the good this could do. And just generally help people feel connected, worthwhile, cared about by others, and little more hopeful and joyful about living their dreams. A new frontier.
stardust
Posted on: 11/26/2013 14:20
Kimmio
I apologize for goofing around and making fun. I just googled the gofundme site. Its true we have free will to spend our money whatever way we wish to. There is billions spent on lotteries as just one example. I don't know if Chansen reads here. He needs to raise money for a special bike that costs $4200....??.......for Carter.
Some poor kids in our schools do get free home computers, no details on it. Perhaps you should head up something in gofundme for free computers for the poor ? You buy them and have them shipped to whoever? You could request their T4 slips re their incomes before shipping and some references that they are truly needy. ( You might need to open a business bank account)
GoFundMe has crowdfunded campaigns raising over $95M from more than 1.4M donors and is among the top 1,250 websites in the US.
GoFundMe CEO Brad Damphousse is in the running for Entrepreneur of 2013
http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2013/08/20205-crowdfunding-for-personal-causes-site-gofundme-ceo-up-for-entrepreneur-award/
stardust
Posted on: 11/27/2013 20:20
Kimmio
Did you give up coming here already? You haven't had too many responses.
Oh well......here's a video that Linda made from Huff Post:
Click the arrow on her Pic.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/28/2013 04:52
Hi stardust!
Yeah- there are lots of good ideas that could be done! Not sure if I'd be ready to take on the kind of big project you (or I) suggested- but it does inspire ideas, for sure. Many people and groups can reach many other people and groups with this fundraising tool.
tinashang
Posted on: 12/03/2013 00:21
Sorry I missed the conversation. I stumbled across this a few days ago but couldn't post until my account was approved before responding. I appreciate the kind comments.
I honestly don't know what to think about all of the rumors and accusations flying around about Linda, but I think regardless of how all that ends she started an important conversation and I want to do my part to keep it going.
I started a blog if you all would like to visit I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and discussing the topic more.
Tina Shang
http://rawdiscourse.wordpress.com/
Kimmio
Posted on: 12/05/2013 04:30
Hi Tina,
Thanks for stopping by. :)
tinashang
Posted on: 12/05/2013 21:57
Hi Kimmio,
I have been browsing t his site. There are some interesting conversations going on here, but the platform is a little awkward to move about. I am learning though.
Kimmio
Posted on: 12/06/2013 01:51
Hi Tina- yes, wonder cafe can be an interesting place! Welcome! Is there something in particular you're having trouble getting the hang of on WC, that we can help with? I still have trouble from time to time, formatting my posts. The comment box can be a bit confusing.
tinashang
Posted on: 12/06/2013 21:57
I am sure I can figure it all out if I just had more than five minutes to sit down and explore the site. I am heading into finals week at school and about to pull my hair out, maybe during my short Christmas break I can get on and find my way around and comment on some of the other topics. =)