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I am a Canadian,
free to speak without fear,
free to worship in my own way,
free to stand for what I think right,
free to oppose what I believe wrong, or
free to choose those who shall govern my country.

     John Diefenbaker

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2012/02/election-ro...

I wish there was an organized movement to dissolve parliament and replace it with a coalition gov't -- even if temporary. I'd be first in line to sign up.

This is all beyond surreal and very disturbing. 

It keeps adding up… it's past time to start drawing some lines in Canada. 

This is so sick.

Doesn't this kind of voter deception, if it is proved, constitue election fraud and render the past federal election invalid, at least in the riding where the fraud took place?

Anyway, it stinks to high heaven!

Manipulation?  No...

Words matter... manipulation is too polite, too neat and nice sounding...

This illegally disenfranchised voters (we do that legally all the time, but this was illegal) and, for me anyways, it meets the criteria for ELECTORAL FRAUD.

It is VOTER SUPPRESSION and giving out misinformation about polling times or places is classified as VOTER FRAUD.

So, the question to me is, what do we do about it?

So, the question to me is, what do we do about it?

When one adds upphone calls about polling place changes, rampant trouble at polling places, what took place on campus, illegally campaigning on election day (Harper on the radio CKNW saying "vote conservative" defying the Elections Canada blackout)...

I am not buying that it was not a concerted effort to win a majority at any cost, even if the cost was the democratic process itself.

I agree with MikePaterson. It was time to draw the line a long time ago. Why does Canada just watch while bullies like Harper and Ford take apart our country?????

We demand a full inquiry, including criminal... and we do so now and loudly... or history repeats itself.

In Ohio 2004, people got these calls... Their Secretary of State, Republican J. Kenneth Blackwell, who was also serving as state co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign, did nothing. Later, Congress said it should have been investigated. The subsequent Secretary of State ordered a study after the fact and it found the state's votes could have easily been stolen...

What happened about 2004? Nothing.

Remember Florida and hanging chads?

People let others decide what should be done, they let the wolves investigate what happened in the henhouse, they whisper if they complain at all... apathy...

Folks count on that all the time...

Looks like this guy is the first poor slob to be thrown under the bus.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/24/pol-robocalls-guelph-st...

With my ear to the ground, it would appear there's growing support for an "ABC" (anything but conservative) party. If you know of any candidates from other parties that support a coalition, support them please.  We need a landslide.

Here's one possibility.

http://en.nathancullen.ca/message_from_nathan

You can click here

http://www.leadnow.ca/robocall-fraud

to express your disgust and outrage guys.  I'm sending it to the forums I participate on and everyone in my email address book.

How many seats did they win the majority with...I have forgotten.

Okay, I just checked.  They won a majority with 12 seats...yeah, this is big news! If the calls affected the outcome of the election, maybe they wouldn't have a majority. Either way, that tactic really stinks!

A newspaper friend said that there were four races he knew of that were so close they were subject to mandatory recounts and that one in Quebec that had been announced a Conservative win on election night after a judical recount was found to be an NDP win.

He was not aware of one riding near me in Nippising-Tamiskaming where the Liberal and Conservative were AFTER a recount only 18 votes apart, the win to the Conservative.

Can we think a few phone calls or a few voters who COULD NOT vote, were illegally prevented from voting.... or our vote does not matter....?

Yes, it does matter. It's bad. Really dirty tricks  Western countries would  not put up with if something similar happened in the developing world. Is this still Canada? It actually hurts to think this would happen here. I wonder how conservative voters feel about this latest news...to know that the party they voted for would stoop this low. It hasn't been proven yet, but it waspretty coordinated effort. it seems to me. Earlier, news was talking about 10 or 11 ridings, now alledged funny business is suspected in 27 ridings according to the latest. Doubtful it was one person and none of  the reps of the party in those ridings knew anything. Yeah, and I would like to buy a fake lake while I'm at it.

This has the potential to become a very big scandal. At this point, absolutely nothing surprises me with the Conservative Party.

If we wanted to write a letter, I wonder who it would be best addressed to? I live in a riding held by the NDP so, obviously,  if they used a robocall campaign out here it didn't work - in fact, none of the three ridings in this city were won by the Tories. Should I write to my local MP, the media, the Prime Minister or someone else? Who would you write to? Signing a form letter is one thing, but I'm thinking I would like to write a letter of my own.

Somegalfromcan, you can click the LeadNow link provided by kaythecurler and myself [I went for flashy graphics ;-)] 

Yesterday, LeadNow had sent almost 10,000 messages in 24 hours with the following automated email sent to

Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada
William H. Corbett, Commissioner of Elections Canada
Bob Paulson, Commissioner of the RCMP
Nycole Turmel, Leader, New Democratic Party
Bob Rae, Leader, Liberal Party
Louis Plamondon, Parliamentary Leader, Bloc Québécois
Elizabeth May, Leader, Green Party

and it automatically inserts your MP's address

the body of the letter states ....

I am gravely concerned by the Elections Canada report that has just traced illegal phone calls made during the 2011 federal election to a company that worked for the Conservative Party across the country.

The “robocalls” were apparently designed to stop non-Conservative voters from casting ballots in key ridings by falsely telling voters that the location of their polling stations had changed, causing them to go to the wrong location on election day.

This news casts doubt on the legitimacy of our Government. We need answers now, and real consequences for illegal behaviour that may have determined the outcome of our election.

I demand a full and independent public inquiry, backed by Elections Canada and the RCMP, to expose the facts about the robocall scandal and ensure that the penalty for this election fraud matches the consequences of the crime - including possible by-elections in the affected ridings.

We cannot allow individuals to be scapegoated for actions that benefit institutions. We need to lay the foundation for new laws to restore the integrity of Canadian elections.

***************************************

That last paragraph is important.  A culture of legitimising lies and dirty tricks is being fostered in the current Conservative Party.  The repeated excuses of ignorance (see Vic Toews 'I didn't know my legislation said that!' is a prime example) and Stephen 'I am in Control!' Harper claiming he isn't in control when things go bad are just the more flagrant examples of a leadership that has lost sight of what their purpose is: 

the ends do not justify the means.

All we have to do is look south of our border to see the end result of that mentality. 

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
     Martin Luther King

Thanks LB - I did that one already, but sometimes I think it is more effective to put something into your own words.

In New Brunswick, the story has yet to appear in the newspapers. that tells you something about the Irving stranglehold on the press.

Graeme - the story is in the Gleaner - at least Harper's denial of any wrongdoing.   

Has it been proven that it was the Conservative Party that made the calls? If not, I say to you all, let's hold off on judgement please. It may have been some other person or group entirely. Perhaps it was some group who -- realizing the Conservatives were about to sweep their way into power -- did these calls to smear their good name and so keep them out of government. I do support the idea of a full investigation into the matter.

This is not new. Voter fraud has always been a part of the electoral process, one way or another. Used to be that you could buy a vote in New Brunswick for a mickey of rum. Whole cemeteries have been enumerated. My own grandfather, as an RO in the days of Duplessis in Quebec removed the ballot box from the poll, it having closed, to prevent people voting whom he knew had already voted in Montreal and who were voting where they held summer property and had been enumerated twice (the police locked and secured the door while he escaped out the bathroom window with the ballot box, all those eligible in the poll, who actually lived in the town, having voted).

Yes. It's always been there.And it has always been cracked down on. We had achieved something close to honesty in our voting system. Now, this has cracked a huge hole in it.

The fact that Canadian voters were once bought with liquor does not excuse what happened in the last election. Nor does it make this any less a crime.

The bottom line is that we may have an illegitimate government - and that can't be tolerated. (The other bottom line is that harper has so far shown no great enthusiams for investigating it.

As to our lack of proof that the conservative party was involved - get real.

1. The company that did it has a long record of conservative connections.

2.The person Harper fired ws a junion conservative staffer. Obviously, Harper thinks the conservative party was involved.

3. Services like this are extremely expensive. The idea that such an expense could have been incurred by a junion staffer without the knowledge of campaign managers and accountants is absurd.

4. The idea that a company with a record of conservative ties  (including working on Harper's riding) would accept such an anti-conservative plot from another party is obvious nonsense.

A crime has been committed. The fac that similar crimes have been committed in the past has nothing to do with it. Murders have been committed in the past, too. You still go to jail for it.

Investigate it? Certainly. Expect to find Harper as clean as a hound's toooth? Dream on.

If we accept this, we are accepting that there is no democracy in this country - and that victory goes to whichever party can raise the most money to break the law.

Thank you Graeme.

This is the perfect time for Canadian voters - of all persuasions - to demand an end to money backed politics.  Demand an end to robocalls and "paid political advertising".   Return to "equal" air time - where all registered parties are granted the same amount of time to shill their platforms.  Demand that during that air time, the politicians remain on point and not make flagrant misrepresentations.

Sure this will make for boring campaigns but at least there will be a semblance of truth, zero criminality and maybe a little sanity at least for us poor observers.

I am the face of my country

experssionless and small

weak at the knees, shaking badly

can't straighten up at all

I watch the spine of my country bend and break

I'm a sorry state

      SPIRIT OF THE WEST - FAR TOO CANADIAN
 

I wonder how many people would fall for such a ruse.

I wonder why it took so long for this to come out.

I wonder if there was really any effect made in the outcome of the election considering that the opponents were openly trading their votes between swing ridings - but of course that is not manipulation.

If a man is a pickpocket, would lack of success make him a non-criminal?

Maybe it took so long to come out because the Conservatives weren't telling? It took a long time for it to come out that Pickton was a killer. So they should have let him off?

I'm not sure what your last paragraph means. If you mean the deals made to avoid vote-splitting, that is not manipulating the voters. It's isn't lying to them. And it isn't illegal.

Let's face facts. The robocalls were deliberately and illegally tampering with the voting process itself - just like the bad old days of buying votes or destroying ballots.

If we allow that, then democracy is meaningless.

Why are you looking for excuses for cirminal behaviour? And if it were Liberals who had been caught, Ii wonder if you would be looking for excuses?

The Conservative line is that this illegal and expensive venture was carred out by a very juniot staff member who , obviously, must have had access to a lot of campaign money - and nobody in the Conservative structure noticed it?

While we're at it, why did nobody in the Conservative machine notice it for so long?

Gee. That must prove it never happened.

ROTFL! Right. You really don't know much Canadian history. While or system is reasonable free of corruption, there has been an undercurrent of election manipulation,as well. And as for your condemnation of the Conservatives, please. All parties are guilty to some extent.

Brother graeme, that is an awesome amount of evidence, circumstantial though it may be.

During the last election, my phone was bombarded by calls from all parties.  The budget is spent and the calls go out.  The kid doesn't need to have a big cheque to make illegal calls, he only needs access to the recordings or machines that the calls are sent out on.

Some people want to blame Stephen Harper for everything that goes wrong in the world.  My bible tells me that Stephen Harper being Prime Minister of Canada was orchestrated by God, and that God causes all things for the good of those of us who love Him.

If Harper is proven to be a fraudster (and no one can substantiate this yet), will that then mean he's a servant of Satan?

Technically the party itself did not make the calls - a company (maybe more than one) was hired to do that job. Whether they were hired by the party in general, or individuals within that party - the link is clear.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/24/young-tory-staffer-michael-sona-becomes-first-victim-of-robocalls-revelations/

right. all kinds or imparital special pleadiing.

Hitler was elected. Was that, too, part of God's great plan? Were we on Satan's side?

A kid could not have made those calls. That number of calls requires the sort of sopistication that only a large and specialized company can provide. And companies like that are very, very expensive.

and, please note, - THE COMPANY INVOLVED HAS ALREADY CONFESSED IT DID THE JOB. IT IS ALSO A COMPANY WITH A HISTORY OF WORKING FOR THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY AND FOR HARPER IN PARTICULAR.

Yes, we do need a special investigation. Notice how long it's taking harper to announce one? How long do you think it would take if he thought another party was the guilty one?

DKS - I don't know Canadian history? you're quite right. I should have known I couldn't fool you. Do you know any good books I could read to learn about Canadian history? I want to be smart, like you.

Brother graeme, a company is an organization available to hire. That they did previous work for the Conservatives does not mean that they were working for the Conservatives in this case. Let us exercise some patience here.

It would seem that there really was a deliberate  large scale effort to misinform voters of where to vote...quite possibly preventing them from voting at all if they didn't get there in time, perhaps discouraging people from voting at all if the voting station was too far away, etc. And whoever did it, a party or an independent scheme, Canadians deserve to know what happened and, depending on the findings, what our rights are as to what to do about it, and responsibility  to exercise those rights to preserve our democratic system.. 

Hi SnP,

Would it be possible for you to also believe that Canadians exercising our democratic rights built into our system of law when confronted with the possibility that our election process was tampered with is also part of  God's plan? is having an opposition built into our system also part of God's plan in your opinion? We don't know who was behind these calls, but hopefully we will find out.

The Bible instructs us to respect the laws of the land. In Biblical times, there was no democracy.  We happen to be blessed with a democratic system (still haven't completely lost it yet)  whereby people have been blessed with  the right and the responsibility to follow proper steps built into our system to address concerns.

Thank you, Kimmio for sticking to point.

This is not a party issue.  This is not something that warrants excuses, justifications and scapegoats.

It was voter manipulation.  In a democracy like Canada there should be no justification, no excuses and no party loyalties.  Everyone should be demanding a full and very public investigation.

The jackasses at Elections Canada are out of control.
     Stephen Harper, 2001

Hi LB, I jumped pretty quickly onto assumptions...strong language coming from opposition about what they suspect happened, as well as the news media. Really we don't know what happened, but there should be an inquiry because the widespread nature of this issue is too big to ignore or consider a one off thing by some crafty kid. If it happened in one riding, to ask for inquiry might be pushing the issue a bit far, because  it could be some rogue stunt  not really affecting much (depending on the outcome of the affected riding), but 27+ ridings? We have the right to know. Even conservative voters of conscience  who value their rights should be asking for answers, because you're right...this isn't a party issue. I'd be just as upset if any party was behind this, or any person/group backing any party for that matter (but to be fair, I would probably also linger in some denial over the whole thing if it was a party I voted for being suspected). Nevertheless, no matter "who dunnit" we need to restore and uphold our democratic electoral system.

And, if it  turns out it did only did "minor damage" to the election results...that's beside the point...tactics like that do major damage to voter confidence and morale...and major damage to our trust in the electoral process.

Again, if this was just in one riding, I would be more inclined to believe that it was one person playing a prank, but this is being reported across the country in many ridings.

If the source WASN'T Elections Canada, the company that did the job should be folded down for a start: it'd be a criminal organisation, surely.

I see 2 separate issues:

1.  Who is actually responsible.  I not  a big fan of Harper's, but I'd be surprised if he knew about this before it was done.  I doubt that it was even the conservative party, or someone running.  Having one person working on someone's campaign is different than it being done by the party, IMO (even if that one person is a member).

2.  The effect of this on the election outcome.  I know if I got a call like this I would be extremely suspicious, and would either call the number on the voting information card or check online.  Many people vote on their way to work, or on their way home; so many would only hear the message after they already voted.

It also seems that there needs to be a consistent system in place when voter fraud occurs (maybe there is).  The last time I was aware of a major voting scandal, we lost our ability to vote by mail-in ballot temporarily (for years).  Someone resigned, but there was no byelection for the affected ridings.

The scandal has not spread to 30 ridings. Since all the call we know of were designed to target the Liberal vote, we can reasonable assume it ws not done by the Liberalsl. (never can tell, though. they're crafty.)

I never said the company's ties to the conservative party proved anything. I did say they are suggestive.

For those who don't think the conservatives were involved, why did Harper fire a conservative election worker for it?

Why did the company admit publicly it had done it for the Conwervative party?

Why hasn't  Harper, knowinig himself to be as innocent as a newborn babe, not immediately announced an investigation?

Actually, I figure it was the Greens who did it. Always thought that woman had a shifty look in her eye. She's probably one of them there Moslem fanatics.

We are sending election observers to other countries to make sure this kind of voter manipulation or deception does not happen in a democratic election, and yet it happens in our own country!

Yes, a full and very public investigation is called for.

Pat Martin is saying he knows of  34 ridings. Bob Rae says 27.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/02/26/pol-robocalls-cp.html

Peter McKay says it was an isolated incident. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/02/27/ns-robocalls-defence-minister.html

It is a party issue.

1. the company has publicly admitted it was working for the conservative party.

2. Harper has admitted it by firing a junior conservative election worker.

3. A junior worker could not possibly have authorized such an expenditure.

4. The prime minister has yet to announce an investigation.

At that level, it's very much a party issue.

One could say that it should not be a party issue, that all Canadians, including mps, should see this as a fundamntal issue of freedom and democracy.

As we can see - even in these posts - that has not happened.Many people are responding along political lines.   Whether we like it or not, it's a party issue. That's how Harper is treating it - and he's the one who is in a position to set the tone.

I read that the opposition is requesting an emergency debate.

Apparently, it's not just robocalls.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/27/i-made-misleading-election-calls-for-the-tories-call-centre-workers-speak-out/

This is odd, and I am not going to jump to conclusions, but I do want to see an investigation done.  I'm not sure why this is only coming out recently.  If I was working at the call centre, I would go to the media.

I have yet to hear from someone who did not vote because of one of these calls.  I'm sure the media would gladly interview such a person, so I still doubt that it affected the results.  The issue is still concerning though.

It just keeps getting worse, doesn't it?

Does anyone know if the Bills currently being passed through parliament have to be put on hold until this issue is resolved? C10 (omnibus crime bill) and C30 (online privacy) are both in process.

Also, if anything is substantiated and the Reform Conservative Party is found to be culpable, will the Senate go down with them?

I have one question about these robocalls, and that is why anyone thinks this would be either expensive or difficult to do.  You'd need access to call lists, a recorded voice message and a computer.  There are all kinds of companies that offer this service and it isn't very much money.  My old school used Synervoice to call parents about upcoming events, and it's basically the same idea; only the message and the targeted audience is different.  I also had the experience of working at Elections Canada back when I was in university and at that time at least there were all kinds of problems and mistakes when it came to voting locations and voter registrations. (We had one couple on the voters list 3 times at two different locations and we never would have found out if they hadn't contacted us.  We also had kids on the voter's list and at one point due to an apartment building on the corner where the boundary of 3 different polling stations were, we were telling people in the same building to go to 3 entirely different locations.)  The big surprise here to me is that this hasn't come up before.

But the media has hold of it and if you are conservative you are guilty until proven innocent. And even then you're probably guilty.