Hi redhead,

I believe that authors Irving Abella and Harold Troper accredit this statement to Frederick Blair.  While this apparently was the sentiment/policy between 1933 and 1948 (with respect to Jewish Immigration) I don't believe it is still sentiment/policy.  At least not for Canada.

This reads as if it came from Kevin Annett

With respect to Jewish immigration.  I am unaware of any formal apology with respect to the sentiment/policy advanced by Blair.  As mentioned above I do not believe the poicy is current.

With respect to residential schools.  That program has ended and what is happening slowly is the process of undoing damage done and frankly, some that has been damaged is likely lost forever.

The Feds have formally apologized.  I suspect the apology is as good and meaningful as any apology uttered by any politician.

The UCCAN has both apologized and repented.  I suspect that the apology and repentance is as real and meaningful as any repentance offered by any Church.

I've been critical of the UCCAN's justice initiative on this issue in that attempts to stand alongside the victims of the residential school system move us out of our historic standing as victimizers in the residential school system.  We prefer to be outraged for how our brothers and sisters were treated rather than humiliated about the way we treated our brothers and sisters.

I don't find that particularly surprising.  It is more comfortable to ride the bandwagon of outrage than be the paving stones it rides on.

If there is something more specific that you are wanting us to man up on I'm not certain what it is.

Grace and peace to you.

John

A church, like any other institution, cannot do anything wrong. It is not that a church is perfect. It is that wrong can be done only by humans.

Yes, humans in the UCC and pretty much every other church in Canada, and including atheists and agnostics, were viciously anti-semitic into the 1950s and even later. We Canadian humans are now engaged in the deliberate destruction of our native peoples. And it's a proccess as bad as the one we employed against Jews.

But it's not the churches that are doing this.

It's us.

There is neither virtue nor value in simply pointing the finger at an institution.

Graeme: your argument is philosophicallly sound.  Until the concluding sentence, which is a great example of bifurcation.

Revjohn, you walk the line in many arguments.  And many points you make are thougtful and valid.  that said, with regard to First Nations issues, you are seriously undermined, as is the UCC.The federal government has shon its true colours, with serious funding cuts. It is socacial apartheid.  Sadly unnotiiced, because Canadians are generally passive.  Hopefully that will change.

Hi redhead,

Respectfully, I do not believe that the UCCan is being undermined by the Federal Government's response, or lack thereof.  If the UCCan is, as a matter of fact, having its relationship with First Nations individuals undermined I suspect that is the UCCan's own doing.

The UCCan was a willing partner in the Residential Schools disaster. 

While the Federal Government has greater access to financial resources it does not manage them well and as I point out the task of the TRC was too vast for the resources allocated.

The UCCan could have pointed that out at the time, but didn't.  It could have offered to contribute more resources, but didn't.  Instead the UCCan worked on what it could do.

I think that the TRC will probably be a greater help in the long run than picking new colours for the UCCan Crest simply because it appears to be a more direct response to the actual problem.  True it is poorly resourced, I'm sure that comes as a complete and utter shock to those who believe the Conservatives to actually know more about fiscal responsibility than how to pronounce it.

As far as funding cuts go, that is part of the Conservative premise. 

Throwing money at problems doesn't make them go away.  So clearly the solution is to stop throwing money at problems.  Since the problems don't appear to be going away there is no use throwing money at them.

There is also the reality that First Nation differs from First Nation and some groupings have done better with the resources they were given than have others.  That means that the Government cannot develop a one size fits all strategy to deal with First Nations issues (If any Government could we probably would have had one long before now).

While it is discouraging to see Government so clearly dysfunctional (nothing really new about that) it is just as discouraging to see that dysfunctional leadership is something we have managed to pass on to our First Nations brothers and sisters.

If what routinely happens at the Six Nations on the Grand is at all indicative of the internal friction among First Nations peoples I wouldn't hold my breath expecting solutions anytime soon.

I think that Canadians notice serious funding cuts when those cuts impact directly upon their lives.  The Cowardism of the Omnibus legislation is always an attempt to do the damage before anybody can notice that it is being done.

Regrettably there are some who see omnibus legislation and automatically think it is hiding something nefarious when it isn't always doing so.  The conspiracy tone of attacking omnibus legislation may tune folk out and work against any legitimate protest that should be raised.

I know when I went to look at the proposed changes brought forward in the last omnibus debacle I did not read the proposed changes as being as malevolent as was suggested by critics of the bill.  That could simply be ignorance on my part, reading acts of parliament doesn't engage my interest and as such I don't tend to retain much.  Language employed is also a slight barrier in that I find Parliamentarians like to use language in a way that is not that common.  At least when crafting legislation it appears that way.

While Canadians do appear to be passive with respect to Government I suspect it comes from knowing that names change and parties change but the same crap continues to flow.  I think that has more to do with the partisan aspect that is festering in politics rather than any actual will to hurt individuals.

Perhaps the real obstacle is that the problems are complex and we send only simple minds to address them.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I am more pessimisitic. I think there is still a deep reservoir of racism in Canada. We most certainly were as racist as Germans were about Jews. And I saw a good deal of that racism well into the 1960s. The same was true of the US.

Harper can get electoral points by attacking native peoples. Follow his advertising on this one.

He also has an economic motive to destroy all treaty rights, and to destroy native peoples as a group. At this point, the church cannot simply step in like a fairy godmother and wave a wand. I think it first has to work on its own congregants to rid of them of that racism which afflicts so many of us.

You must have come across meanings of the word bifurcation that are unkown to me.

I agree with much of what you have posted above, Graeme.  What isuggest, and urge is for people to stand up, act out and speak up

bump  because this issue is touchy, and dangerous, and difficult to deal with.

Hi RevJohn:  

You need to re-examine Canadian history

Look up Antisemitism in Canada - Wikipedia.  I cannot paste the link due to my browser control.

Canada's multicultural facade is done. 

shunning and shaming - deal with it

Hi redhead,

Do I really?

I discuss the quote "none is too many" and because I only addressed that quote in the context in which it was offered I am considered ignorant and uninformed.  No leaping to conclusions there.

That the quote "none is too many" could have been made by Senior level bureaucrat and accepted as wisdom by the Government of the day is a very strong indicator of anti-semitism as prevelant rather than aberrant.

While one antisemitic attack is, in my opinion, one attack too many it is interesting to read that in a world where antisemitic attacks increased by 30% (2012) Canada was well below that average nationally (regretably we still saw an increase of 3.7%)

According to numbers supplied by the B'Nai Brith incidences of vandalism and violence are down but there has been an increase in incidents of harassment.

http://www.bnaibrith.ca/attacks-on-jews-in-canada-defies-global-trends-but-perpetrators-extremist-propaganda-cyberbullying-still-a-concern/

To be honest I wrestled with posting this simply because it provides more fodder for WonderCafe.ca's resident anti-muslim.

While I expect that the 77% increase in the rise of holocaust denials is statistically accurate I can't help but note that by giving the number as a percentage and not showing the comparables (as done initially with the total antisemitic incidences) the article uses this data for shock value.  Which, all things considered, may not be unwise.

Only when every Canadian has rejected the belief in multiculturalism.  It may be on the ropes.  Rope-a-dope always surprises the casual observer.  They think they are seeing a murder in progress only to find that the aggressor punches themselves out and is unable to finish the match as victor.

Which is not me saying that I think multiculturalism is deliberately letting racial prejudism whip on it just waiting for such hatred to burn out.  Only the emotionally disturbed enjoy watching a beating and when ignorance is confronted with the brutal reality of race hatred it can no longer live in bliss.

It is going to happen eventually.

Is Canada's current  immigration policy with respect to Jews identical to the policy written by Blair?  If it is we still have a serious problem.  If it isn't has it changed for the better or for the worse?

Having spent most of my life as a next door neighbour to the Six Nations of the Grand River I am very much aware of the prejudism directed toward that particular group of First Nations peoples.  I have also noted that where racial slurs were once common place in discussion about our neighbours that is no longer the case, in deed, the public expression of such slurs routinely brings correction.

I'm no Pollyanna on this subject.  I am well aware that while the public face of prejudism gets rarer with each new generation there is a private face of prejudism which continues to thrive.  And that private face will continue for all the reason that any hatred lingers, it is a refuge for ignorant people.

If such prejudism is finding new ground to thrive in comfortably then Canada has a huge problem.  If it goes about roaring like some starving lion then it is a dead thing walking.

Grace and peace to you.

John

and wow. infinite resignation,  people can stand up.  Jesus did it. (and he was Jewish)

John: "prejudism"? Do you mean a a political/philosophical commitment to — or rationalisation — prejudice? I have hreard such arguments in Canada, along the lines of "these people (native people)  don't think like humans and you can't pretend they do and let them run awat with things. They just drink and fight and screw it all up." — a statement I heard from a white Ontario school teacher about 10 years ago. 

That seemed like an attempt touse a perception to rationalise the prejudice that I'd have said gave rise to the perception.

Hi MikePaterson,

I have not advanced the position that prejudism doesn't exist.  I have advanced the idea that prejudism exists less now that it has in the past.

Things are not perfect.  There are places where things could be much better.

I expect that society, by and large, is moving away from prejudism.  It isn't happening as fast as any would like that it is happening at all is positive.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Bad rhetoric and poor form; making apologies for stunningly appauling behaviour.  Shameful.  And a very sad comment on society.  And a very sad reflection of religion.

Hi redhead... I googled  the UN and some of their beefs aren't justified because Canada is working to solve the missing persons  issues they are so  critical of.

Redhead....I'm back.....!!!!....I'm not affiliated with the UC but your OP seems to imply that the UC isn't interested in and doesn't care about the First Nations or aboriginal peoples problems and issues. I beg to disagree. I can't sit on the net for weeks hunting up  the UC interests and activity regarding   same but I did find a few links, some of which are outdated .... but nevertheless.....it isn't fair to say the UC doesn't care and paint all of its  people with a broad brush. You know better than that!

Here's some of my stash I found...lol..

Redhead:

You say Canadians are passive. Can you tell me who or what  you mean by the term Canadian? I am sincerely  confused. Do you mean Scotch, Irish, English ( from England) and French ( Quebec,France) ?  If so its been a long time since I've met any of these  in person in Toronto. They do exist on the net!  I'm just curious....

Yes, stardust, I agree.

There are some people that are classist, eltitist, racist or passive in any group of people, and some that are not. To pass collective judgement on an entire ethnic group or nation is in itself racist.

Well - take note I am not blaming any nation or national group in particular - but Canada has a high degree of elitism. It's quite commonly  a major product of any society, and manifests itself in capitalism as an elite of wealth. Snobbery and elitism are pretty common byproducts of being human. I've even known it to be common in churches.

As for Harper guarding human rights, forget it. He's the one who won't allow in Jews or Romas from eastern Europe. He has belatedly begun a list of native  women who are missing - but that won't do a hell of a lot to solve the problem of why they are missing.

He left a Canadian farmer in a Lebanese prison for a year (the man has since been discharged and returned home.) In that time, the man was not extended any of the services he had reason to expect from his own government. Harper is also the only PM I have ever heard of who turned over a Canadian citizen to a foreign country knowing he would be tortured. (He has also extended none of the rights due to Omar Khadr as a citizen under Canadian law, or as a child soldier under interntional law.)

I could wish we were outgrowing racism and elitism. but I don't see much sign of it. The choice of victims shifts from time to time - but we humans seem to have a natural tendency to be elitist and racist.

I certainly woulnd't pick out the UC as a major offender - though perhaps somewhat neglectful in some cases. I think it needs to give its own people space and incentive to understand exactly what those words mean - and how they manifest themselves.

People can and have stood up in Canada. You are standing up for example. Howevr we should always expect "standing up" to be a process, for which only a minority of people do. (As Jesus was in a minority) 

We will always be disappointed if we expect institutions to stand up, especially democratic and broad based community organisations and churches.

These organisations can be used to network the grassroots and empower people who are standing up.  People who stand up, will often be crucified by those with power, and the church and other groups, while not having the ability to stand up with those being hurt, it can minimise the harm, or impair the ability of those with power to hurt those who stand up.

The UCC is a good example, of a church that by and large only challenges power when it has been made safe to do so, by the work of a minority of it's members. Members who were enabled to have a conscious and the ability to see a better world through the teachings of the church.

BTW, None is Too Many was a headline of an editorial in Le Devoir, which said no to any Jewish immigration, when Jews were trying to escape Germany before WW2

Also South Africa did study the Canadian reservation system and used it as a template when they created apartheid.  This was done during a time when the churches were partners with the government in kidnapping all the children in First Nations communities and placing them in "schools" where they were not only deprived of their parents, culture, and language, but subjected to neglect, physical abuse and sexual assault.

The South African system of Apartheid was much less evil and an improvement on the Canadian system, as it did not involve the kidnapping and abuse of children, nor did it attempts to destroy culture or languages so directly.

Howevr at the time there were a minority of Christians, Jews and Atheists who were fighting racism. This was at a time when racism, and other evils like sexism, were arguably much worse in Canada, than it was in evry other country where English and French were the language of those with power. Including the US. The KKK for example had a larger membership in western Canada (based on anti Chinese racism) than the US west.

Howevr it can it can be also argued that today, Canada is less racist (as determined by gvt policy and support for far right/racist groups) than any other English or French speaking country.

WHat was responsible for Canada moving from being among the worse, to among the best (or least worst) . Many factors, but IMHO, the values and actions of a minority inspired and empowered  by the message of Jesus as taught in many churches, (and others who promoted equality.)

Have we repented as a society or as a church? And how do we tell if we have?

For one we can tell that someone has repented because their behaviour has changed.

 Canada is being seen as more racist today, becasue in the past we underestimated racism. Covertly racist people do not see racism, it is only when we start to understand racism, and can identify it are we able to see racism.

Many have repented, but continuing inequality, and the stories of First Nations, and other equity seeking groups, like women, the disabled, the poor, etc tells us that while many have repented most have not.  Many still believ they are better than others, and can thus tell others how to live, and what to believe 

Howere I believe I was naive in ever understanding that the idea that all people are equal in Gods view, and that as a result we should love and honor all people equally would be accepted by those with privilege.  Howevr those who believe in equity in Justice can make a difference, if we believe in ourselves, our communities and churches, and in our faith in God's promise (however his or her presence is seen, or understood) 

Just remember Redhead,  we are not alone

Actually, those are Canada's true colours - though it certainly is not the fault of the United Church.

Check out our biggest foreign industry - mining. All over Latin america and Africa, we have an appalling record for social abuse, environmental destruction, violence, and even murder.

Of course, none of this ever appears in Canadian news media.