I thought you were talking about the show---which the local theater group is doing this month and we are taking our oldest 3 girls to see in 10 days.

My little fur-baby isn't actually all the fond of the outdoors. She's a rescue cat and she gets very nervous when she is any further outside than the balcony.  She's be miserable as a bbarn cat or outside cat.   I do sometimes put her on the leash (she's very good about the harnass and leash) and take her out to the empty field behind our place but those outings don't tend to last very long before she all but drags me back to the house. She is death on any stray bugs in our place but that's pretty much all she hunts. She did go for a sparrow that landed about 2 feet from her on my balcony one day.

I would have no problem if they were all shot and buried, when talking about what we normally think of as cats.  I'm not including all the species in the cat family, lions, etc. can live :)

I do get annoyed by some irresponsible cat owners who sneak their cats places where they shouldn't be.  I've had animal-free hotel rooms where I've had to switch rooms because my reaction made it obvious someone did have a cat in there.

chemgal,

A bit extreme, eh?

Created an absolutely brilliant essay on this topic, hit the wrong button and am now considering banging my head on the keyboard.

What SG said.

Spent 1/2 hr on it......

I've heard that guinea pigs are very tasty.......need a nice cup of tea....

It wasn't that brillant....

I hate it when that happens ninjafaery!

SG, if I was made dictator I wouldn't order all the cats to be round up and shot.  If someone else did though (hopefully for a good reason!) I wouldn't be upset about the loss of cat lives, that's all what I meant by the above.  I understand some people love them, I'm just not one of them, and I can't be near them.

Do you have a fuzzy little dog?

Nope and I never have.

I would feel bad for those who would be upset about losing their pets.  I wouldn't be upset at the loss of the cats though. 

chemgal,

I still find it a bit extreme and beyond not liking them.

I do not like spiders. I have a bit of a fear of them, even. I would not order them all killed or want anyone killing them all.

My wife is allergic to horses. She would not want them all killed or not mind if they were all killed.

So, yeah, a bit extreme and beyond not liking them IMO 

SG, sorry, I was just trying to show my indifference to them as long as they aren't causing problems.  My intent wasn't to offend anyone, but I could have come up with a better way of saying it.

Hi SG: the article is new: today's news in BC. I just thought this'd be a topic to get some fur flying… 

Sorry Mike.

My misread.

I already knew and read that there were places with laws and then I read the end as that no municipality had laws (versus no BC municipalities).

What sparked me was an experience in New Zealand. I had a newspaper column in the NZ Herald — the closest thing to a national daily in New Zealand. And we lived in a cabin in the bush, off-grid, off-services. I needed a .22 to keep the 'possums at bay. Without predators, they very quickly overrun pretty much any natural or cultivated ecostystem in New Zealand.

But then we had people from town dumping unwanted cats and kittens "in the bush" because they didn't want them but didn't want to put them down. They'd turn up at our cabin , typically sick, hungry and half-wild. In the bush there was plenty of evidence of predation. We took one or two to the vet. It cost a bomb. So I started routinely shooting them.

And I did a column about this: about the damage dumped cats did and the fate they suffered: sickness and/or a bullet. I made a plea for people to get their cats "fixed" and — if they really couldn't be looked after — to get them put down themselves.

There were howls of outrage from "cat lovers" asking how I could be so mean as to shoot a homeless kitten.

The shelters here are over-run with abandoned cats. Someone often ends up having to put them down. 

Something has to be done and tracking a cat to its "owner" might be one way to dampen the incentive to simply dump them when they scratch the upholstery, chew up a bird in the living room or pee in the bedroom., or get a bit of an inconvenience in some other way. Dumped, they don't survive long but can do a lot of damage and drop a number of litters before they succumb. You soon have a feral population of cats on your hands and it gets to a point where you're looking at  ugly options like poison.

Better in my view to dispose of strays humanely and send them frozen to whatever markets will cover the costs and appreciate them as protein.

I blame Walt Disney for a lot of the over-romanticised, unrealistic, cutesy and deeply misled popular attitudes towards animals of all sorts.

There have been several articles in the past few days related to the significant environmental destruction related to cats.

In particular they are responsible for the loss of many species of birds.

All cats should be kept inside only. For their sake and for the sake of other species. Feral cats should be spayed. All cats sold should also be spayed unless sold to breeders.

I like cats but I don't want them responsible for the destruction of birds.

We have 2 spayed female cats. One from an acreage where there was a litter that needed homes and one from the SPCA.

We live on a quiet cul de sac beside a creek in the city.

Both cats love some time outside and yes they are both hunters. Our SPCA gal has brought home lots of dead mice-or almost dead, a live snake and 2 birds (immature robins).

No endangered species as far as we know.

Look at the picture in the article. A cat carrying a pidgeon. A PIGEON?!

Last I heard pigeons were an introduced pest species and not an endangered one!

That said we do not put up bird feeders or a birdbath in our yard as that would not be fair to the birdies!

I started keeping mine inside when I realized that both for their safety, and that of the flying squirrels, rare warblers, pilliated
woodpecker chicks & red belly snakes, it was the best choice.

No, I have no judgement for humanely shooting sick feral cats under the conditions you describe, as long as you're a good shot.
SPCA gets a lot of flack locally for putting cats down. So "no kill" shelters are popping up. People, you cannot save them all!

My family's old cat (in the 70s and 80s, my wife's not big on pets so haven't had one since meeting her) never managed to be much of a hunter, though she did spend time outside. Too much of a housecat, I guess. Got the birds pretty riled up when she was around, of course, but never caught one (or a mouse or anything else).

Like others, if I had a cat I'd spay/neuter, raise them as housecats, and discourage hunting as much as possible.

I would also say that if I was going to have a pet, it would be a cat. I'm very much a cat person rather than a dog person.

As far as strays/feral cats go, I'm all for taking measures to control them, whatever those may be. Bait seeded with a kitty contraceptive (if there is such a thing) would be a good start. I've heard of controlling wild animals that way.Exporting them for meat seems a bit ... off ... and I'm not sure an alley cat is going to be particularly good eating but I suppose it's better than having to cremate the lot of them after they die or we kill them. In the end, population control through proper management of domestic cats, use of kitty birth control, and other measures would be better than culling.

Mendalla

I have two cats, one of whom looks like the guy in the picture with the pigeon. I can assure you, he would be just as pleased with himself as that cat is, if he were to hunt down a pigeon....or in this neck of the woods, a raven. Both cats are indoor cats and have been neutered and spayed. They are currently curled up in a pile on the couch, sleeping. They have a very good indoor life. They have a dog to harass or to play with. They have a six foot cat tree that is under the heat vent in the basement and in front of the window. They can climb, or sit and watch (sleep) as desired. The couch is in front of the window, so they can sit on the back of it and look at the world around them. Or sleep. They do sleep a lot. They also lust after the ravens, which are bigger than pigeons and imagine taking one down. The cat spit on the window is evidence of their attempts. As I mentioned before, they have a very good live, even if they can't go out and hunt ravens.

We moved here from Toronto where we had two cats in an apartment. They had been apartment cats for most of their lives, so were quite content to be indoor cats. When they died, we got a kitten. We were living in a house by then and considered letting them outside. After hearing the chorus of neighbourhood cats at night, we decided to keep him inside. Our two current cats are bengals. We decided to keep them in, partly because they were purebred, but mostly because it is really the best for them. They do go out on the deck with us sometimes, and have harnesses which they agree to wear. Did I mention they have a good life?

I have done some volunteer work for the SPCA. I strongly believe that pets should be neutered. Shelters are no places for cats and dogs. They may get good care, but it is basically a prison, and not good for them. Indoor cats can live quite pleasant lives, and are safer and healthier. I know some people train their cats to be on a leash successfully. I would not recommend putting a cat on a tie out unsupervised though.

I feed birds.

I have 2 cats that are almost hairless, but we let them in the backyard supervised on nice days, and they probably get a 1/2 dozen birds per year. I probably see hawks catch as many in our yard as well.

I'd estimate I spend $50 on birdfood for each bird the cats get.

I just pulled 6 chicken breasts out for supper this morning. I probably spend $10.00 for each chicken my family eats. We eat way more birds than the cats.

Mike,

In Texas, on the jetties, one could see between the rocks oodles and oodles of feral cats. It is sad what people do dropping unwanted pets and/or not spaying and nuetering.

Friends have cats dropped at their rural property. They are pets who cannot fend for themselves and suffer and die or they turn feral quickly. They often become another animals food. One they captured and re-homed to others had been both spayed and declawed. She was once a pet who had no means of staying alive. She was dropped off to die. She now curls up on someone's sofa.

Had my friends taken out a gun and shot her, well,  I would be disgusted. They are not over run with cats and she was not ill and suffering. If they said she was dying and they ended her misery, I would accept that.

I generally do not think it is ok to shoot non-threatening animals if you are not eating them.  

I have spent much time around shelters. Shelters that are no-kill fill up, often with unadoptable animals and then what would be adoptable pets have to go to to kill shelters or are dropped off. As our local no kill shelter closed, they had cats who had lived years there and were unadoptable.

I am all for being able to track people who dump animals or let them run at large or go without rabies vaccines...

That's how I adopted my two. I was living further north & even Animal Control didn't bother with cats. No SPCA for about 85km.
A family in the village that was known to have a big herd of cats just left them all there & moved away. It was terrible. They kept turning up everywhere - most going feral. I was caring for six at one point (yup, spay/neuter shots) Spent a big chunk of change on them. Two just disappeared, two found homes & two stayed with me. They are both 12 y/o.

It's weird that I can get my mind around humane culling, but the whole declawing idea bothers me greatly.

Just a brief derail to plug an excellent YouTube vid for entertaining indoor cats called "Winter Birds". My cats are mesmerized by it. If you have a larger screen, it then becomes a different story. "revenge of the birds".

InannaWhimsey embedded it in the Cat Shuay thread in "parenting"

I just checked the New Zealand Herald and there's a issue brewing there afterEnvironmentalist Gareth Morgan offered to donate $5 to the SPCA (like the Humane Society) for every homeless cat they put down.

Morgan launched a "Cats to Go" campaign last week, labelling cats as "natural-born killers" and calling for local governments to require registration and micro-chipping of cats, and to eradicate unregistered cats.

Tuning in on my brain:

my dad told me aboot that story last night -- i giggled :3

"How to tell if your cat is plotting to kill you"

i guess that it isn't just Americans who think that death is optional ;3

date Jan 30, 2013, CTV story on killer cats.

grown up around aniimals; tend to love mammals.  allergic to some (not deathly like my sister).  my last took to a leash.  he was my kato (he'd savage me at random times -- or maybe i wasn't just paying enough attention to the signs).  for the first 2 years of his life i'd let him outside in the morning and when i'd see him again after work.  i later turned him into an indoor cat (tried to -- he was very smart and found ways of going outside, including learning how to open a bathroom window).

i think that not everyone should have a cat (like people who are on welfare and spend their money on junk food, booze, X-boxes, but don't have enough money for their pet food), but i'm not going to make a law to enforce that.  i also think that all cats should be fixed.  and it'd be good if all owners licensed/tatood their cats -- it helps greatly if they get lost.

(i dimly remember one time our siamese cat got lost when we were at an OK theme park -- it's no longer there -- and people had to hunt for her within a ride...)

not all cats can be leashed--i know this from personal experience.  one of my wife's cats actually somehow manages to cut through a solid nylon harness, and she's a small kitty.

all deathly allergic humans should be humanely put to sleep or put on a safe isle/in orbit/on the moon/sent to Mars ;3

oh, and never bore your G_d.

that is all, citizens

As a kid, I used to have a "vampire cat" that would try to nip at our necks when we were watching TV. Who knows, maybe he was plotting against us. On the other hand, he knew where his treats and cuddles came from. Most of the time, was he ever cute! Just a bit defiant sometimes. Lol.

In defense of kitties. I like cats. I prefer dogs, but I like cats too. And, as far as I know, hunting small animals is their nature. If it weren't for cat chow, they would have to hunt to survive. It's hardwired into them. So, I don't know what the fuss is about .They don't hurt large animals and generally not humans unless they're rabid (in the case of my cat, he had all his shots, and when he did his nipping business he never actually drew blood- we would know what he was up to and catch him before he tried most of the time anyway).  Just about every domestic cat I've known has been scared of  loud noises people and animals and anything bigger than them. My old roommate's cat was the opposite of predatory- he behaved like a lap-dog and wouldn't kill a fly. When they do hunt, the animals they kill are small rodents who are normally considered pests, and maybe the odd bird-but isn't that just nature doing nature's thing? Unless field mice (which carry diseases harmful to humans anyway) are in danger of extinction, I don't see the big problem. Our cat didn't catch all that much, but he was really proud of himself when he did. He brought us a few lovely "presents' to the doorstep but considering we had him for a few years- not that many. Maybe half a dozen total.

Good post Mike.  I was a little alarmed to see that picture though 'cause the cat looks EXACTLY like mine! 

I'm a cat person.  Always have been.  WAY lower maintenance than a dog.  I still get that affection from her, just on her terms!  That's a cat for ya.

My family, Cefa (C fa Cat lol) is a full time indoor cat.  Good thing seeing as how I'm in a highrise and she'd have a tough time coming back in through a window or door.  She's never been kept in to protect birds or neighbours' gardens or even other cats.  It's all about Cefa being safe and healthy.

Read the first half, then had to jump forward on behalf of cats. 

Mind you I'm all for neutering or spaying to control the pet population.  I have no problem with licensing, if the fee were kept low enough that even the destitute could license a cat.  I believe that stray cats and feral cats need to be controlled, and even killed if homes cannot be found for them.  (I'm more in favour of the catch, spay, and release programs.)    I also think it reasonable to limit the number of cats in a household and prevent the stories we hear about somebody haveing 30 cats in a small apartment.

I could not support exporting them as food.  If there was any money in it, I can see the probability that people would soon be snatching pet cats from backyards and balconies, and breeding cats, and keeping 'kitty mills', for export. 

But some of the things that have been said in this thread, you would think at cats were the devil's spawn. 

Aside from the pleasure of pets - the soft fur, the pleasant purr, the playfulness of  a kitten, the companionship of an adult cat curled up on a senior's lap - the fact that they are easier (and cheaper) to care for than a small dog - aside from all that, I think of rodent ccontrol.

I think of the stories of the early sailing ships and the damage rats did to their food supplies - so they carried cats on their ships.  The first cats to arrive in the Yukon during the gold rush were worth their weight in gold. 

I grew up in the country.  My uncle had a mixed farm - horses, cows, pigs, chickens, a dog, and cats.  The cats were semi-wild barn cats.  They got a dish of milk at milking time and table scrapings; otherwise they fed themselves.  When the cat population reached a certain point, my uncle did a cull, but generally the cats were tolerated for the services they provided. 

Now, living in a housing development at the edge of the city I am only somewhat aware of the number of mice, moles, and other rodents in the backyards.  On several occasions we've had a mouse in the house.  So has our church had mice.  And I spotted one running along an overhead beam at my Coop store.  They are everywhere.  In parts of the city rats are a problem.  And gray squirrels are a nuisance - there seem to be more all the time.   I am grateful that a few of my neighbours still let their cats outside.  It helps to keep the rodents under control - and I love watching them hunt. 

My daughter, until recently, lived out-of-town.  Her cat loved the outdoors and frequently brought dead mice to the back step to show her he was earning his keep.  He was well fed at home.  Now she has moved to town, on a busy street, and her car has to live indoors.  I feel sorry for him.  He loved his freedom.

Hi MikePaterson,

As controlled as any other domesticated animal.

I think this is a false choice.  The issue is not simply this black and white.

It is kinder than letting little snowflake dart into traffic to feel the tender caress of rubber tires smashing her tiny skull, or worse, injuring her fatally but allowing her to lie there in traffic suffering until another tire finishes the job.

And dogs are natural hunters, roamers and predators too yet, they are restrained.

Spaying and neutering should be compulsory for all pets.  I have mixed feelings about registered breeders.  Pure bred animals can have a tendency towards health issues.  Anecdotally I find mixed breeds to be slightly more intelligent than pure breds.  Though my experience is limited to dogs in that regard.

Perhaps this is also a solution to the euthanization of dogs in the West?  I have a problem moving past the idea of pet as food because I'm soft that way.  Still, if the animals are going to be put down we don't have to let that end result in nothing but waste.

Perhaps it will make pet owners slightly more responsible knowing that if fluffy wanders off and cannot be returned through any form of ID the next family fluffy joins for dinner will not be as guest but rather as entree.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Seeler,

You bring up a good point about licensing being kept affordable. Our community licenses dogs and charges $10 a year, $7 for a spayed or neutered dog. Those over 65 pay $5 and $3.

There are a few people who request that when I do a pastoral visit that I bring our little dog. They are shut-ins who love the love they get from her. That includes one seniors residence where the residents are permitted small dogs. The woman I visit there is unable to care for a dog, but loves ours.

Animals actually work in nursing homes and hospitals providing therapy.

Many folks miss pet ownership. So many older people can no longer walk a dog or walk one safely. A cat can curl up and sit with them and require very little. There is a point, where even a cat may too much. That does not change that they love animals and miss them as a part fo their life.

One elderly fella I visit has his litter pan on a small table in his laundry room. It brings it to a height that he does not have to bend to scoop litter and maybe lose balance. His cat is more than happy to jump up.

The idea of pretty birds and songbirds being killed off by cats is a difficult one. Yet the idea of them keeping mice under control makes me want to celebrate every kittycat I have ever known.

As distasteful as it might seem, in nature animals kill each other all the time for food. Cats who kill birds are not different.

It has been a long time since I have had cats.

Two of them were indoor cats and they were perfectly happy.

Our third cat went outdoors. She wanted outside so badly that we finally gave in. She used to stalk the front door ... would hide and wait for it to open so she could dash out.

Animals in the wild do kill to survive. The issue with pet cats is that they don't need to and shouldn't.

Species of birds, voles, moles and mice are in danger from cats.
.

There are lots of studies about it but the big one in the news this week estimates that each cat, and there are millions, kills 245 small animals a year
.

A hawk in the wild kills to eat. A house cat get fed and shouldn't be out to kill
.
I like cats too. The are lovely lap animals and ii like their independence. Just don't let them kill

http://www.catladiesdoc.com/about.html

This is provocative doc about women who care for large numbers of cats - some to the point of hoarding and having them take over their homes & life. Awful sanitation issues in one case, and meticulous care on the other extreme. Very balanced, I thought. It includes the view of an animal control officer who seemed to have a good handle on the emotional and practical complexities of the issue. If this topic interests you, check it out.
Something I found interesting is the advice from that animal control person to just leave feral cats alone - don't try to feed or rescue them. It would be the equivalent of "rescuing" a squirrel or raccoon.
Interesting to watch.

My 2 cats and my dog are part of my family. While I try to keep them safe and inoffensive, people should keep one thing first in mind.

Mess with my family and you are taking your life in your hands - whatever the consequences.

Hi Judd:

Nobody will mess with your family if your family does not mess up other people's places or public spaces and places.

People take a dim view of other people defecating and urinating where they shouldn't. The same applies to pets.

Something new from National Geographic: 

"Some scientists suspect cats can cause mental illness in people. A protozoan named Toxoplasma gondii, commonly found in cat feces, contaminated water, and undercooked meat, has been linked to the incidence of schizophrenia.

Alan S. Brown, a professor of psychiatry and epidemiology at Columbia University, has found a 2.6 times greater prevalence of schizophrenia in people exposed to Toxoplasma gondii in utero. (He's also reported a three-fold increase in the risk of developing schizophrenia in children of mothers who had flu during pregnancy.)

And there's Jaroslav Flegr, a Czech biologist.

Back in the 1990s, Jaroslav got infected with Toxoplasma gondii (Toxo for short) — a parasite, excreted by cats in their feces, that causes toxoplasmosis—the reason pregnant women are told to avoid cats’ litter boxes. It can result in severe brain damage or death to the fetus.

Jaroslav began to suspect that Toxo was manipulating his personality and behaviour, leading him to act in strange, often self-destructive ways.

And if it's messing with his mind, he reasons, it's probably doing the same to others: the parasite may be slowing our reaction times, and changing our response to frightening situations, our trust in others, how outgoing we are, and even our preference for certain scents. 

He also believes the organism contributes to car crashes, suicides, and mental disorders such as schizophrenia.

When you add up all the different ways it can harm us, he says, “Toxoplasma might kill as many people as malaria, or at least a million people a year.”

Check this out in The Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/03/how-your-cat-is-making-you-crazy/308873/

It's all very well for Jaroslav to say that (and I saw the story in National Geographic), but until a properly done and reviewed study is done to show correlation between mental illness and toxoplasmosa infection, I'd say it's a bit premature to draw some of those conclusions. The study mentioned in NG might be such, but I'd want the cite so I could see the peer-reviewed version.

Mendalla

There's a little more in Atlantic.  (But, don't forget!,  lightning strikes are a biohazard too!)

That's one ambitious gene. Maybe the bacteria are body snatchers.

It's a weird wee bug. It has been proven to suppress fear in rodents making them easy prey for cats: and that's how the cat's get infected. Rodents get infected by playing with kitty poos. So it's a merry-go-round. No-one's suggested people might be affected until Jaroslav started researching it.

Deity certainly has a sense of humour/is a wicked sadist ;3

There's also a fungus that transforms ants into "zombies" that help spread the fungus...kind of a microcosmic version of The Walking Dead. Nature is amazing, sometimes scarily so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis

Mendalla