I think people should become more aware of the dark side of fundamentalist churches. Last summer, after getting numerous chain type emails from a fundy cousin about how evil Moslems all want to kill us to obtain favour from Allah, I had to ask him to stop sending them. He was very offended and angry with me that I asked him to stop sending me hate email. For doubting this anti-Moslem message, he made it clear that I am NOT a Christian.

I am not saying all fundamentatlists are bad. However, there is a very large swath of them who are not much different than Islamic fundamentalists. Fundamentalism, whether Christian or Moslem, are two sides of the same coin.

We need to know just how dangerous these people can be. In my view, it is Christian fundamentalism and their unquestioning support of Israel that let Lebanon be destroyed last summer. Certainly, they are (partially?) responsible for the invasion of Iraq. Christian Fundamentalists are affecting our world in a negative way.

I really want to see it. The trailer alone gives me chills.

So Christianity has a dark side. Everything does. Why is that so scary? These guys are very dedicated to God. They give up a lot for God. They are even giving Harry Potter. Why is this scary?

PLease tell me you didn't just ask me that question Serena, "what's wrong with that?"

Oy!

These camp leaders are teaching children to hate. One thing I have seen in the New Testament over and over is that you are to love one another as Jesus loved you. You don't need to like Harry Potter but to call him the enemy is not teaching love.

SciFi unless this is a cult that is going to wait on island for a meteorite you don't need to worry. "God's army" does not fight with swords and guns unless something has drastically changed since I have been there. They do spiritual warfare. Which means they sing praise songs over and over and over and over and over very loudly scream at demons, get slain in the spirit, and talk in tongues. I have been at camps/Church services like this. Some really left wing people pull out plugs from abortion machines and write Bible verses on cars in red lipstick but this is usually not openly supported by the ministers. They write letters to MLA's, boycott movies, harass stores into putting up Merry Christmas signs instead of Happy Holidays, etc,. They may be a little kooky but they are not dangerous. They are teaching kids to hate Harry Potter that is just a story. I think when I was there it was the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that were evil.

Just because it is fictional doesn't mean hating is ok.

Since when does there need to be an army for God? Where does it say to make spiritual warfare against different people?

This fundamentalist viewpoint has been used throughout history to declare war on a certain people/group and the beginning recruiters start at camps like this. Do you think Hitler gave the youth groups guns right away?

Extremeism that promotes hate in any way shape or form is not just, good or right.

SciFi said " Do you think Hitler gave the youth groups guns right away?"

Hitler was not a fundamentalist. In order to control the German people he pretended to be a Christian. He put Pastors in Churches who would tell the people to listen to him. The Pastors who refused to do this were murdered or put in Concentration Camps. He just tried to USE religion to accomplish his plan. His plan was not about religion. The other way he used to unite Germany was to create a common scapegoat to blame for all their problems, the Jews. This was a well thought psychological manipulation of the Germans. Religion just happened to be ONE of his tools.

I agree with you that that this gives Christianity a bad name and is an abuse of power and and a total mockery of a loving God.

"God's Army" needs to fight demons. They are using scripture to back this up. In all the demon fighting I have done I have never seen an actual demon. This may be something just to keep young people busy. I have never seen someone become healed as a result of these warfare prayers. I have never seen angels. All I have seen is a bunch of excited young adults screaming and falling down. What is a little scary though is that people get "prophetic words" and usually they are bad and they usually come true. Their weapons are "God's Armour", prayer, talking in tongues, scripture, and songs about fighting demons, words of knowledge, and prophecies. Unless something has drastically changed they are kooky but not dangerous. If they are I am leaving Alberta because we have many Churches like that here.

SciFi said "Extremeism that promotes hate in any way shape or form is not just, good or right."

I never said it was. I just admire what they are all giving up to serve God. They give up Harry Potter, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Halloween, drinking, money, and a host of other things.

The best thing to do is stay away from them. You can't reason with them and until they break some significant laws they are legal. Persecution only makes them more wingy and set in their ways.

I'm sorry Serena, but one does not serve God by hating.

Since when is Harry Potter or TMNT a sin?

The issue with God's army is that it has been used throughout the centuries by various religious groups to justify their various crusades or jihads.

There is no benefit to you or to god to hate sin. With sin, the first step is in acknowledging it, then it is seeking forgiveness and striving to avoid that sin if possible in the future. If you hate a sin, you do not learn from it.

Scifi hating sin yes. I am surprised with all the liberalism around here that "God's Army" would be such a problem.

I did not say that Harry Potter or the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were a sin. The ministers define what sin is for the Church. I think the Little Mermaid has also been banned.

Anyway, I know how hard it is to live a life WITHOUT all those things and I respect the reason WHY the people are doing it. I don't respect them THAT much or I would still be there. Maybe feel sorry for them is a better word?

I am just pointing out that you don't have to be scared of them because they don't fight in the physical realm only the spiritual. There may be some real nuts who god supposedly appears to and tells them to go do something really stupid and they go do it. I did hear something about the Jerusalem Holy Wars 10 years ago too. I did not pay much attention to that either.

Hating sin is good though. God hates sin. Hating sin keeps a person away from it and then you are less likely to fall into sin.

I've just got to weigh in on this.

I've been involved in evangelical churches for 32 years. I have NEVER heard parishioners taught to hate anyone. "Hate the sin, not the sinner" - I don't have a problem with. Sin is a real enemy, to be resisted and fought at every turn. But hate directed to individuals or groups - never.

One thing people need to understand is that to disagree with something, even vehemently, is not the same thing as hating. I get worked up at what I consider some of the fuzzy thinking that is harming society, and I feel entitled as a member of a democratic nation to put in my two bits worth - even as I would support the right of my detractors to spout off as well. That's what democracy is all about. But if we regard Jesus' words as authoritative, then to hate even the people who are our enemies is forbidden. We are to pray for them; but to disagree with them is not the same as hating them.

All the military parlance? I roll my eyes a bit at it too, and it could be a dangerous stimulant in the hands of some unbalanced sorts. But it's quite a stretch to go from there to the accusations the filmmakers are levelling.

Who on this thread has actually seen the movie? Can anyone point out (this is not a rhetorical question - I'd really like to know) if there is anywhere in the movie where the kids are told specifically to hate individuals or groups (as opposed to their actions)?

George I've posted the whole movie review. It's a rare film, not a blcokbsuter released in all the theatres. I;ve not edited the review which quotes directly from the movie. "Harry Potter is the enemy." If you doubt my word you can check out the original review at thestar.ca

SCiFi that is another problem with the movie. "God's Army" is not evangelical it is Charimatic and Pentecostal. Evangelical beliefs are much more liberal.

Why is the darkside of fundamentalism bad? Well, I think I gave two examples above: it is the fundamentalist influence on the American government that caused the U.S. to invade Iraq and to allow Israel to bomb Lebanon for a month and a half last summer. Two countries have been destroyed, because that's what fundamentalist Christian Repubicans wanted Bush to do or allow.

Many fundamentalists have a very anti-Islamic bias and most certainly have, in my opinion, dangerous views on what it means that Israel is God's chosen nation. As one of more important new conflicts in the world centres on certain Moslems (or people who think they are Moslems) hating Christians, this returning of the hatred by fundamentalists certainly makes our world a more dangerous place.

Serena, I think many people would see Charismatics and Pentacostals a subset (or two subsets) of evangelicalism/fundamentalism. As someone raised in a Baptist/Alliance-like setting and have had many pentacostal and charismatic friends and been to their churches, that's the way I see it.

No one else is distrubed by this type of camp, except for the few posters on this board?

""God's army" does not fight with swords and guns unless something has drastically changed since I have been there."

Serena:
Have you studied no history at all?

Besides history, have you not heard the Evangelicals calling Iraq a "holy war", which is being fought with Guns?

Perhaps you don't see anything wrong with it because you are not one of the people who these people are telling children need to be killed.

I am one.

How many times do you think you can tell a large group of children that God says Witches should be killed before one or more of those children start to believe they better start the slaughter themselves?

Can't happen you say?

Think back to the Christians who shot abortion clinic doctors.

Witch, I think you are on to something. I think certain fundies do not care about some groups of people. They weep and nash their teeth at one or two Jewish people killed in Jerusalem, but an entire village in Lebanon can be wiped out and they just say "oh well". They think it is horrible that three thousand people killed on 911, but the fact that double that amount of Iraqis have died in the ensuing war is the cause of no concern. There is some serious racism involved!!

Witch, I just thought Christianity had moved beyond killings, stonings, and burnings at the stake. But again, I say unless something has drastically changed. I have stayed away from them for 10 years they may have indeed gone over the deep end. They were not very far away when I was there.

We also need to remember that this is a movie and movies even documentaries can stretch facts.

Witch I do remember saying something about a holy war but I don't pay attention to politics outside of Canada.

The film didn't make up the line about children being "god's army." And Harry Potter being "the enemy."

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/ for any who haven't watched the trailers or clips...I gotta admit the movie kinda freaked me out. The part that really hit me the most was when 10-year-old Tori was talking about dancing "in the flesh" and not for God being really wrong...I'm a dancer, I do it every day and do demo performances and stuff like that, and I've never once chastised myself for not doing it to a Christian song or specifically for God. I like to use Christian music, and I like incorporating it into youth worship nights, it's something I can contribute, but to get mad at myself for dancing just for my own pleasure, and not for God...wow...