I think I usually play the role of rescuer - I am the one people come to talk to, the one who offers advice. People know that they can confide in me. Occasionally I fall into the role of victim - I don't stand up for myself very well at times. Sometimes I can be a persecutor - especially at work when I am advocating for the child that I work with. Sometimes I feel like I have to be fairly forceful with her parents in order to get my point across.

Sometimes victim, sometimes rescuer, and sometime, I hope, just a friend.  Some people might see me as a persecutor, but I don't think I fall into that role very often.  (one person blamed me for forcing her out of her position when I agreed to be president of the senior bowlers a few years ago, but I really had little to do with it.  I had agreed with the majority that it was time for her to go after serving many years, and when no one else would agree to accept the position - I agreed to.  I didn't force her out - she resigned after someone suggested it to her and it became evident that was the groups wishes.  No I wasn't her persecutor.)

I hope that most of my relationships are healthier than the three choices you give, Pilgrim.

When I first read your options, "rescuer, victim or persecutor", my immediate reaction was wanting to say rescuer, because that at first seemed the nicer position.  BUT then as I thought deeper, I realized that yes, I have "rescued" people and possibly deprived them of a necessary learning experience that may have helped them more than the temporary help that was offered. It also helped to avoid issues in my own life, while paying attention to others lives, which eventually IMO, leads to ineffective counsel.

Victim? Sure I've played that role too. Growing up and searching for answers I relentlessly assigned blame on my family of origin for any blips in my life or personality. Until I explored further and realized that there is a point where one becomes the captain of your own ship. It's good to know where one comes from, but it can also be used to implement necessary changes.

Persecutor? This would be the nastier position right? And yes, I've been there, done that also. Not intentionally and often very subtle, that I found out later that someone interpreted what I had said as "being mean". On the flip side, I have heard it was the necessary, "niggling" that spurred someone into action. Touching an exposed nerve so to speak.

It's very hard to find a balance with everything and it's a fine line to walk. When in doubt, I now try to opt to just listen.to others, to God and parts of myself if I choose to open my mouth. I still continue to get it wrong sometimes and sometimes I get it right.

There are certain people in my life where I automatically fall in to the role of rescuer.  Not that I run in and try to manipulate or control their lives, but rather where I feel and enormous responsible for them, their well being, and their happines . . . and have found myself giving up of my own well being and happiness in doing so.  I think I'm learning to do better in these situations and relationships.

While there are sometimes circumstances in which I may feel like a victim inside myself, it is not a role I act out or would lplay out to others.

I'm sure there are times when I have played the role of persecutor.  Meaning that there have been times when I have been argumentative with others when it was not necessary to do so.

Thanks folks - I see  others like to reflect on how they relate in this interesting world.

More thoughts............

Acting the role of either victim, persecutor or rescuer describes a lot of our behaviour as children.

Waterfall,

Your comment " there is a point where one becomes the captain of your own ship" gave me the thought that maybe that's what my friend's counsellor was suggesting. By playing out our relationships as victim, persecutor or rescuer we are "stuck" in roles that are more appropriate to childhood - it's time to find a better way to relate to others?

As a child, I excelled at inviting rescuers into my orbit. I was (and am) useless at doing practical tasks.

I learnt very early a sad face - or even better tears - was the recipe for being "rescued".

Trouble was, I was still, as a young adult, looking for rescuers instead of being "the captain of my own ship". I learnt though, by not captaining my own ship, there was a huge price to pay. Depending on others as a way of operating in the world contributed to me feeling anxious and fearful. Not good.

Most of my friends to this day are rescuers - but I've benefitted from saying "No, I don't need you to do it for me - but I'd appreciate it if you tell what I need to do, and I'll do it."

It's interesting that one of my rescuer friends said that she couldn't travel overseas on her own - so perhaps I have my own strengths?

How odd. I was just about to start a very similar discussion myself.

I just finished listening to the audio book biography of Patti Boyd, 1st wife of George Harrison, read by her. What a wimp and pushover she was!! Her life was no better than that of any battered woman living with an drug addicted, abusive, cheeting husband, and she went from bad to worse marrying Eric CLapton! It made me wonder if she brought it on herself... enableing her own mistreatment by not standing up for herself, and demanding better treatment. Her mother had been the same sort of wimp, enduring the philandering and coldness of her 2 husbands, and Patti must have grown up to think that's what husbands were like.

SHe finally wised up some time in her late 40's, after having left Eric Clapton, when a third man tried to mistreat her! She kicked him out.

George was going through a difficult time, and I can't help think a stronger woman would have been better for him, and thus promoted a healthier marriage. That is what I think Olivia his second wife must have done for him, because I don't think he was a bad person.

Patti was a victim. SHe seems to have made herself that. Let it be a lesson to all of us women.

Women are not all to blame though, a man must have boundaries and morals of his own as well. Women seem to naturally be trusting and submissive, and a man must respect that and do right by his woman as a gentleman. And we women must stand up for ourselves and not be wet dishrags allowing our men to get away with stuff!

The Dolly Parton song goes, "Stand by your man" that's the dishrag attitude. I say more like, "Did you think I'd crumble, did you think I'd lay down and die, oh no not I! I will survive!"

Those 3 labels all require that there be an injustice in progress in order to apply.  Perhaps that assumption - that an injustice is always in progress - is why the "victim, persecutor, rescuer" model fails to work socially?  The model precludes peace, precludes happiness.  There is only the injustice, and its possible resolution.  The model cannot deal with what happens after resolution, unless what happens is another injustice.

Azdgari,

I'm impressed - so well thought out.

I just checked your profile, and see you're in your twenties?

Run for parliament - your country needs you. 

Awww, thanks for the flattery!  Actually I turn 29 on the 22nd. :)

There are others who are far more insightful than I am.  The problem isn't that quality individuals aren't interested in running for parliment.  The problem is that parliment filters them out.

Are my thoughts too dissimilar to the topic to fit in? I wouldn't want to be derailing or anything.

I admit to being disappointed that there is little interest in this thread.

There are so many threads here on Wondercafe IMO where the posters display either victim, persecutor, or rescuer behaviour.

It leads to locked in positions with little chance of a satisfactory resolution.

I think I'm beginning to get why my friend's counsellor suggested that it's often not a constructive way to deal with issues.............

Elanor,

Sorry, we posted at the same time.

Yes, Patti Boyd was a "victim".

It's an easy role to play - as children we are often in the position of a victim. As you suggest - if we want a more satisfactory life we have to find a better way to relate.

Pilgrim - not posting much doesn't mean that I am not interested.  I've been reading with interest. 

Unlike you I don't remember crying much as a child.  I guess I didn't think it would do me much good - I wasn't the baby of the family.  And I wanted to be thought of as strong and capable of looking after myself, and not admit vulnerability.  Don't let anyone see your weaknesses.   So, I sometimes became the rescuer.  I not only took care of myself but I looked out for my brother, and my younger sister.   I helped others, and I sometimes let them walk all over me.  In helping others sometimes I was an enabler. 

However I did notice that those who acted the victim sometimes got attention.  I guess I didn't realize that it might be the wrong kind of attention, and not what I wanted for myself.  So I began to let down my barriers.  And sometimes it felt good to admit I wasn't as hard and strong as I had tried to tell everyone, including myself, I was.  People would offer sympathy, and help.   Sometimes it seemed good to 'let them see you cry'.   After all I'm human, I would tell myself.  The pendulum swang too far - and I found that I was not respected, nor considered a strong capable person. 

But years passed.  I grew up.  Somewhere (perhaps around 60 or so ) I started achieving balance in my life.  I started being a friend, rather than being a victim or a rescuer.   As I said above, I don't think I was ever much of a persecutor.   I don't think I ever thought I had that much power.

If I post is it because I am playing victim to Pilgrims Progress' persecutor driven disappointment or am I plaing rescuer to the same?

If I think that adzgari nailed the problem with his post suggesting that the three labels are contextual and not absolute am I plaing the persecutor?

Can I be all three at once? 

RevJohn,

We have a special description here in Oz that aptly describes your comment here - 

"stirring the possum".

I think it's perceptive of Adzgari to state  "perhaps that perception - that an injustice is always in progress - is why the victim, persecutor ,rescuer model fails to work socially?"

I think I see what he's getting at - when you do adopt that model of behaviour it does seem to respond to a perceived injustice.

Perhaps not the best way for  all-round good relationships to occur? 

seeler,

I didn't wish to imply criticism - I allow myself to feel disappointed at times. 

Sounds good to me  - so you see it as part  of maturing?

 Pilgrim, Have you been following The Squirrel's thread in Church Life on Church Bullies? It seems to me that we have another thread discussing somewhat the same issues from a somewhat different viewpoint. Two threads - same issue or not the same issue?

Hi Pilgrims Progress,

Well it is against the law to stir live possum and if I were stirring dead possum it would be with the intent of serving a steaming bowl.  I don't know anyone who appreciates possum and never having prepared it would probably overcook it and ruin the delicate flavour.  All things considered, I will probably never stir possum.

I think it has a context where it does work.  If that context defaults to an absolute then it is a recipe for disaster with maybe a hint of possum.

If we begin with an attitude of distrust we can always find proof that such mistrust is justified.   If we begin with an attitude of trust we can be disappointed that such trust is proven unwarranted.

Speaking for myself I prefer for others to prove they are unworthy of trust and lose it rather than force them to try and and earn from me what I will continually deny them with a default of suspicion.

Grace and peace to you.

John

In most of my relationships i don't think those words apply.

To my best woman friend I think I am a mirror.  I think I help her by reflecting her thoughts back to her and she me.  And i often think we are both each others enablers.  In good and bad ways.

If I want to do something but am nervous, she reflects that back to me, I see it as a challenge and so she enables me to act.  It also works negatively.

To my best male friend ( hubby) I think I am a supporter.  I listen and provide him strength and stability.  He does the same for me.  The act of talking out an issue gives me either the push I needed to act or the knowlegde to take it slower.

TO my family i am the mix of moderating middle child and a boss to my younger sibling.  To him i know there is an aspect of "bigf sister boss" as our other siblings are quite a bit older than us and so we two grew up as a pair in a household of 6

I am a victim that tries to rescue others.

I am a victim that tries to rescue others.

I have been all three in my life. for me the two most hurtful were  being the victim and being the persecuter.For me, also, being the rescuer is just the thing to do. But in rescuing, one  can also become  a victim and a persecuter. Make sense??

Makes sense to me. Been there - done that!

Interesting comment.  Makes me wonder how many rescuers once were - or saw themselves to be - victims?

lastpointe,

"Supporter" and "mirror" have a lot of appeal - they suggest to me that you are on the same level.

Victim, persecutor, rescuer all suggest that one has more power than the other.

As such, at some level, there is an awareness of this, which may inhibit forming a successful relationship.

Don't we all like to think that the other considers us of equal worth?

When I think of my closest and more successful friendships a sense of equal worth is a given.

Pilgrim, way to stir action in your thread! ; )

I think birth order may have a lot to do with it. As an only child I was most likely to be the victim, but towards my poor dog, I was the persecutor, then the rescuer when I realized that putting a purse around her neck at the top of the stairs wasn't a good idea !

I think we all are a bit of each at different times and in different situations. I haven't tended to persecute people very much 'cause I end up cowering when they overpower me in repsonse, reverting back to victim.

As for rescuer, I tend not to be very good at it, though I do try! I lead by example.

I think there is a choice and a decision at the outset of each situation, to choose not to be a victim, or a persecutor, but to strike a healthy balance. That is the ideal.

There's nothing wrong with being a rescuer though, so long as you're still looking after your own needs.

The three faces of Eve?...

Or maybe it more of a triple aspect: maiden mother crone,

or a good witch, bad witch, Dorothy...

I'm in the line of:  kinda like myers-briggs, it has its limits.

Some will use the rescuer, persecutor, victim descriptions to persecute others.

Basically, a lot depends on the role of the individual and the communiction method.

If your job is audit, then, a finding is you doing your job...not persecuting.

If you are a parent, then a call to come pick up a drunk child is your job based on a previous agreement with that child.  yes - you are rescuing...so what - if that is what you have an agreement on.

so....if i see one of my direct reports being attacked unjustly, I will support them and if there is a power dynamic due to employee or role, then I will step in.  If it is a peer, and they seem overwhelmed, I will support them or bring it to an appropriate person's attention.  -- does that make me a rescuer? maybe? but, some times, rescuing is appropriate and it can be done so that people don't lose face.

I had another talk with my friend today - to see  if she's learnt anything further on the victim, rescuer , persecutor model..........

She said she's realised that this "model" is much in evidence in her extended family. Interestingly, she can see it's limitations more easily with them - than with her own family.

She added that she got the definate impression that there was a more successful way to interact with others - and that she hopes to learn what it is.

Persecutor is the easiest to see how that would be counterproductive.

And, I know from my own experience, seeing yourself a victim puts you in a situation of feeling helpless and powerless. Also, you have to constantly rely on others - not good.

But,  being a rescuer presents it's own set of problems. It hinders the rescued from experiencing their own capability........

Whatever the solution, at it's base there'd have to be a feeling of mutual regard and worth.