If you want to stop bullying, you confront it. Bullying has been essentially condoned by parents and teachers and other kids since the beginning of time. Bullying has been written off as, "Kids can be cruel," as if that's just a universal truth and there is nothing we can do about it.

Bullshit.

The "What can you do?" approach of throwing our hands in the air and accepting bullying as part of growing up has to stop, and it's not gonna stop by holding hands and singing Kumbaya. Drunk driving wasn't made unacceptable with "love" or prayer - it was made unacceptable by changing the prevailing attitude in society that driving drunk was in any way acceptable or unavoidable. It was made unacceptable by people snatching keys from the hands of their friends.

In a perfect world, better parenting of all children would be a great start, and peace and love would flourish across the land. In lieu of a perfect world, people have to call out the aspiring jackasses who bully and taunt other kids. Just a simple, "What are you doing?" or a basic, "What the hell is wrong with you?!?" can suffice.

Simply put, don't ignore it, and don't condone it. If you see it, say something. This problem isn't going to be solved by sweetness and politeness - it's gonna be solved by people standing up and being courageous enough to let the little idiots know that what they are doing is not funny and it is not okay. This also lets the victim know that they are not alone and that someone is in their corner, and that is huge.

And the people who have to be the most courageous, are the other students. Adults can be the catalyst, but it's the students standing up and letting bullies know that what they are doing is unacceptable, is what's going to change this.

I was bullied in grade 9 pretty bad. I know what it's like. I developed a pretty thick skin and an ability to handle bullies with words. Once I had people laughing at the bullies, I didn't have that problem any more. By grade 12 I was sticking up for bullied grade 9s, but I was one of the few who was willing to do it. You need a critical mass of students who are willing to speak up, and not just pay lip service to the problem in a school assembly on bullying.

chansen ..... I share so many of your sentiments on this one.....

I am a redhead lol .... you don't want to be engaging in bullying around me....

I do confront .... and very effectively....

I am sure there will be more of us........

Regards

Rita

Excellent post, chansen.  I was not bullied, but in my small town there was only 1 heavy girl and she was a good friend of mine.  Some new kids that moved into our town thought to give her a good working over...it was short-lived because the rest of us said...bullshit. 

Thanks.

What really got to me, was this paragraph in the opening post (blog entry) above:

chansen ... to be fair ...... Rev Jeff called for  TOUGH policies and laws....

Policies and laws are a requirement ....... such things provide a legal base that specifically spells out what is not legally acceptable conduct and legal sanctions for those that break those laws and policies.    The laws provide a base of enforcement as a resource to curb bullying.   I for one and grateful for the laws and policies that have been enacted on my behalf.    I use those laws as a firm line to stop bullying when I see it.   I am also grateful for anyone that stands in solidarity with me.   More and more are doing so and it is becoming less socially acceptable for others to bully me because of such statements of solidarity.    I will continue to actively solicit such public support and make it as personal as possible.

Do policies and laws make a difference?   From one that has benefitted from such I will tell you yes indeed they do.   The policies and laws make an incredibly important difference.

As for praying ... please leave that to us that do thank you..... you are not obliged to pray nor have you been asked to.....

Lets put it this way ..... your cutting down of a person that has a heart to try and do something about bullying and to affect the public conscience in the process is rather perplexing.    Here I thought your words were expanding on the thoughts of the original post rather than tearing it down.    I was hoping you were elaborating on the personal aspect that is also so critically important rather than demeaning a worthy sentiment.

I feel a small apology would be in order.......

Regards

Rita

I'm tired of these "we'll fix this with a law!" and the "we'll pray it away!" and the "let's have school assemblies and puppet shows about it!" weak-ass approaches. These are kids, vying for attention. They don't care about laws, and they don't care what you're praying about. They only care about what people think of them. And if you had a God who cared and could do something, these kids wouldn't be bullied. You really think that your God is suddenly going to pull his head up from the newspaper, from where he has been ignoring the pleas of the young Christians who have been bullied, and suddenly acknowledge your prayer on behalf of those teens?

I am getting tired of the word "bullying". I think it has lost its power. People are quick to dismiss bullying as something all kids do, and all kids endure. That is bull. What Amanda Todd endured was not bullying. She was likely a victim of a pedophile, and she was assaulted. She was judged and tormented. If we use the term bullying to describe what she endured, we will not take it seriously. If we use terms like assault, and stalked, maybe people will take the issue more seriously. When kids experience "cyber-bullying" they are enduring far worse that schoolyard taunts. Perhaps educating kids to know the difference will be one step. Charging offenders when appropriate is another step. Loving is also part of the process, where appropriate.

Someone shared this article on FB http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/feminista/why-isnt-anyone-talking-about-misogyny-involved-amanda-todds-life-and-death It gives some excellent food for thought in my opinion.

Feminist scholar and writer, and former BC high school teacher Fazeela Jiwa posted: “Why isn't anyone talking about the sexism and misogyny involved in Amanda Todd's life and death? 'Bullying' is important, yes, but it is a vague term that glosses over the structural reasons for why it happens, like race/gender/class/ability. If we don't start talking about the specifics of power structures in high schools, every ‘bullying’ campaign will be a waste of time.”

 

Oh, and we don't have to create a new law to deal with this. We need to use the laws that already exist.

chansen .... you really don't get it do you?

You are so fixated on your hate of belief in God (not those that believe in God) that you are missing the point.

We who happen to believe in God and also are firmly against bullying are addressing the issue in our particular way.    That way is not limited to praying or puppet shows ..... actually much more is required of us based on our beliefs.

Your demeaning of my beliefs will not stop me from addressing bullying in a wide variety of ways...... most of which happens to be personal intervention.

.... by the way ...... have you ever considered that perhaps your posts here come rather close to bullying? .... or at least sometimes has a an odour of it?    Consider it from "our" point of view.......

Since you seem so sincere in your desire to combat bullying ... and I do feel you are sincere ... then perhaps a modification of how you say things here is in order.

I do not expect or require in any way that you change your beliefs.   We have shown great respect of your beliefs and your right to have them and perhaps it is time to return the gesture.

How about start here? ......... I still feel you owe Rev Jess a bit of an apology....

By the way ... this is me personally standing up to you as you have encouraged us to do to others.....

I do hope you take this in the good spirit it is intended.....

Regards

Rita

This, I can support. Listen to the kids - they know more about this than we do. Even I forget a lot about it. But I do know that some milquetoast "Love and Jesus" approach ain't gonna cut it. Any solution is going to require the changing of attitudes and non-acceptance of once-acceptable or ignored behavior.

And Rita, this is not a religious problem. It is not the result of a lack of religion, or lack of prayer. Just think about how many Christian kids have prayed for Jesus to intervene and stop the bullying. Imagine how sincere and how pure those prayers have been. And now we're gonna do what? Pray? Sure, that's always worked in the past....except when it hasn't. So when I hear "prayer" as one thing people can do, it sounds completely hollow. There's no difference between praying for the victims of bullying (or stalking and assault as Northwind points out), and sitting around and feeling sorry for them. And that doesn't help.

Add to that, that bullying often comes from the most religious corners of society, and anti-bullying legislation is fought primarily by religious institutions, and maybe you can see why I find it pathetic when "prayer" is suggested. One way the UCCan could have done something, would have been to publicly support Ontario's Bill 13 this past spring (Gay-Straight Alliances expressly allowed in schools), because the only churches that actually spoke up and were heard, were against Bill 13.

So I am sorry, but I'm sorry that Christianity is no friend of the bullied, the stalked, and the abused. Either it is part of the problem, or it sits idly by, praying.

Sadly a lot of "bullying" has been done in the name of god in all of god's forms.

My grandson was bullied for a year at school.  No one stood up for him.  They couldn't.  They were six-year old kids and the bully was the teacher.  it's taken over a year but he is gradually getting over it. 

I've learned that this particular teacher had a long history of bullying.  Whenever a parent got really insistant the teacher was moved to another school.   She should have been fired.   Fortunately for all the kids to come along, she has retired.

But I agree with Northwind.  Bullying is too broad a term.  We need to name the behaviour.  There are laws against assault, sexual assault, harrassment, stalking, extortion, etc.  Perhaps they need to be tightened up and enforced. 

Thanks Northwind for your link to the article - here's a blog post that I found interesting ... http://theunsexyfeminist.tumblr.com/post/33643452401/amanda-todd-gendered-cyber-stalking-bullying   Lots to think about there.

I agree with you - this is way beyond 'bullying' on so many levels - I do hope some clarification of laws relating to media such as this will come of it.  That's where some work needs to be done IMO.  There was a case here in my area a while back involving posting of photos by young men of a young woman they had lured, drugged & photographed having sex - it did go to court & was successfully proscecuted.  Shook a lot of people up - then gradually awareness faded. 

I do fear for our girls. And our boys.  And all of us ... we seem to be going down a rabbit hole never before explored.

RitaTG

I agree with what you have written to Chansen.

I stand with you and I say..... Amen.

Jeff: your quote:

"Amanda, may you be loved beyond your wildest dreams in God’s arms this day. May her family and friends be comforted by messages and gestures of love. May this start a revolution of love."

Yes Jeff...... yes....we need a revolution of love real badly.

Thanks for kicking it off and reminding us  in memory and love for  Amanda and her family and friends. Amen .

Empathy, compassion, justice, love.  Reaching out to on another.  Walking in their shoes.  Building communities.   Loving not just the victims but the bullies too - for they are connected to us - part of our community.  'Love your enemies.'   (I realize this may mean standing up and naming their behaviour and doing everything we can to stop it.)

There are missing voices in this conversation. Here and in the rest of the media.

Where are the voices of the teenagers? What do they have to say about this? Are we putting some sort of expectation on them that will be impossible to meet?

"All power imbalances are now cancelled and you will resume in a perfect world."

"It is now OK to be too smart, too stupid, too fat, too thin, too poor, too non-gender-conforming, too sensitive, too different in some subtle way."

"We'll marginalize and bully in the workplace, but we won't allow it in schools."

I  think the thoughtful teenagers would tell you that they need more support on the ground. In the provision of mental health services, addiction and rehab programs, free and easily and quickly accessible to everyone, without stigma. In the provision of more counsellors in the schools, more emphasis on mental health and the mental and physical well-being connection. In levelling the playing field, so that more/many/all students have access to:

- clean, decent clothing,

- clean, decent housing,

- nourishing food,

- quality parenting from the larger village of parents,

- a realm of life in which they are expected to be productive and useful, trying to answer the challenge of what their larger purpose in life might be,

- all of the tools, from the practical to the electronic, that they need to thrive in a changing world.

chansen ...... I have read over your comments now a few times and finally have time to reply.

First ..... I do agree with you that bullying is not a religious problem.  Further.... I also agree that bullying is not the result of lack of religion or lack of prayer.    Even further I also firmly agree with you that there is a lot of bullying that is done in the name of religion and in particular ... Christianity.

I am not going to play the game that those that bully (love) in the name of Christianity are not "real Christians".

However .... there are Christians such as myself that are adamantly opposed to bullying and try very hard on many levels ..... especially personal .... to address bullying.

Let me speak to your comments on prayer for a moment.....    This is my personal philosophy and practice on the matter.      I feel the "just praying" is a personal farce for me.    I have always felt that effective prayer inherently requires a "do something".   Of course one could rightly say that the "do something" does not require a prayer component and of course that would be true.   Then what is the purpose and effect of prayer?   For me prayer helps me shape and colour my attitudes and how I go about the "do something".    For me ...how I do that something is just as important as what I do.    There is a scripture that speaks to that and I will not trouble you with the reference ... but it does say the attitude and shaping is based on love.   There is another that says faith without works is dead....  For me that translates into praying without doing something is dead. 

You have been very open in sharing how and why you believe and conduct yourself as you do ..... so ... in that spirit ..... I have shared just some of my thoughts on how I do that as a Christian.

Now concerning churches supporting Bill 13.   Again you make a very good point that there was not the presence that there should have been.    This I am sure that many of us will be watching for in the future and working to do something about it..... and we will do that as Christians.... as we should....

The thing is this .... all of us ... both personally and corporately need to address bullying.    Laws and policies provide an underpinning and base for this as well.   In my own life I have heard "well ... there is no law against it" on a number of occasions as justification.

The original post was in regards to one particular effort and in no way implied that it was the sole way or the only thing required.   Rather than unduly criticising an effort, I will support and applaud any effort that moves the anti bullying cause forward in a good and positive direction.

I still feel that you should reconsider your words and that a bit of an apology is in order.

Sincere Regards

Rita

The "Ooooooooo!" part was over-the-top, but even you agree with pretty much everything else I wrote, with the exception of my point that we don't need new laws - we need people to make bullying inacceptable.

In fact, it's kinda funny how you spend most of your post saying, "I do agree with you," and "I also firmly agree," and "you make a very good point..." ...and then you request "a bit of an apology" out of me. You got a bit of an apology above for the "Oooooo" part, but my points stand, and I don't retract any of them.

Further to the laws point, if a bullied kid is "saved" by his parents or teacher, or the police, how do you think that looks? You're creating sympathy for the bully, and you're probably making things worse for the victim.

Our efforts need to be tied to making bullying out to be as acceptable as kicking a puppy, or a grandmother. Kids wouldn't hesitate to stop someone from doing those things. We need to build empathy and confidence in our kids. We can't have police and parents and teachers present around our kids all day long. Give the kids the tools to handle it.

ok chansen ..... seems like you have a firmly made up mind....

I too stand by what I have said.......

I shall continue to address bullying my way........

Regards

Rita

I happened to see this video online last night and in it the kids offer some interesting solutions for bullying.

my daughter was bullied pretty thoroughly when we lived in ontario, and the school did pretty much f*(* all about it.  i felt like i had been victimized every time i contacted the school to report what was happening.

i appreciate what you are all saying, but as a parent who has lived through this, and could very easily have had an amanda todd outcome here in my own family, it is just words.

the laws do not protect the victims of bullies.  and when i hear conservative MP's say things like 'we should not focus on punishing the bullies, because they have already harmed their victims.  we need to focus on helping the victims.', i just shake my head because it shows that nothing will ever change.

Seriously, not punish the bullies? Is that not feeding their power? I wonder what would happen if we said 'let's not punish the rapists, or the murderers because they've already punished their victims'.........That must have been beyond frustrating for you and your family sighs.

When I think of the teacher who bullied my grandson, I want to grab her and yell at her in front of her peers, ridicule her, deny her any dignity or feeling of security, criticize everything she does, belittle, deny privileges, refuse to let her speak, and send her to the principal's office on a regular basis. 

What should have been done fifteen or twenty years ago when this teacher's incompetence and poor skills with young children were first recognized, was not to move her from one school to another when too many complains came in, but to remove her from the classroom - fire her - or put her in a position where she had little or no contact with children.    Or, at the very least, offer her retraining and monitor her closely.    Thankfully she is now retired.  She won't have the opportunity to ruin any more children's lives. 

The idea of working with the bullies to help them understand what they are doing or gain insight into their behavior does not work.  It has been proven to NOT work and yet many are of the belief that this is the problem.

Bullies need correction and discipline.  We have one school prinicipal in our town that has a no bully rule.  Period.  His school is in the roughest part of town and he deals with bullies effectively and his students are taught that it is their responsibility to stop it as well.  It works.

The rest of the principals and teachers cannot say they are trying their best if they do not adopt his philosophy and yet that is exactly what they tell parents. 

Maybe if the teenagers and children didn't see so much bullying, like rampant islamophobia and homophobia, by adults... They might be more impressed with our pleas for them to stop it in their schoolyards.

Hi Witch,

Apples seldom fall far from their trees.

Of course wiping out Islamophobia and homophobia in adults is going to make instances of Islamophobia and homophobia among children diminish.  It probably won't reduce bullying which is simple dominance type aggression.

Sadly. most prejudice trees have been engineered to produce multiple strains of bullying.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Sad! sad! Will we ever eliminate bullying? I feel bullied here just reading some of these comments. If I want to hate Islam, I will. If I want to hate homosexuality, I will. You can call me names if you want to, but we have to grow up and re-learn and teach our children: sticks and stones may breaks my bones, but names will never hurt me. Bullying, like poverty, will always be with us. We just have to toughen up and toughen up our kids and stop looking for excuses or playing a blame game. The seeds for this tragedy " it started as a bad choice to flash her breasts to someone with a camera."  Well, Rev. Jeff, apparently, the bad choices continued. Aside from her parents and her "church family" who weren't there to tell her about her bad choices, bullying was probably the last cause of this girl's sad end. These may be cold, hard facts which few are willing to face and the church will never name them.

Walster, I do agree with you that we need to teach our children how to respond properly and allow them to be strong. This girl did make an unfortunate choice. That choice unfortunately seemed to have been made because she was the victim of a stalker/pedophile. It would not have been a simple choice for her. He most likely would  have had a good way to coerce her into this "choice".

So, having said that, for normal bullying, certainly the "sticks and stones" method would be appropriate. This young girl was victimized by a predator who needs to be held accountable. The safety training to help kids with these guys is on a different level.