My husband and I lived together before we got married, but we did each have our own room.

As far as I can tell, the idea that living together before marriage is a sin is simply how it appears to others.  Some think it's inappropriate to give the impression that you might be having sex - whether you are or not.  My husband and I didn't care about that.

living together first is just good sense -- there are behaviours and stresses and events THAT ONLY BECOME VISIBLE when living together so it is smarter to try that out before you become irrecovably married :3

The Bible doesn't say living together WITH sex is wrong.

Christianity - the source of more sexual hangups than anything else in history.

Okay, okay, I apologize. Islam is up there as well.

Hi Wesoly,

Not I.

Because if it is wrong to live together without sex then Jesus and his boys have some explaining to do.

Does the Bible even state that living together with sex is wrong?

No.  It doesn't.

The Bible has some definite ideas on proper relationship.  Most of which speak to the context into which the scriptures are written and not at all to the context in which all today's readers of scripture live.

Living together/shacking up/cohabitating are thought to be the equivalent of the KJV's fornication.  Fornication is thought of as premarital sex.  There is a lot of evidence to suggest that pre-marital sex is a contemporary issue and that Biblically speaking sex (particularly coitus) is what makes a marriage.

Interestingly the words tranlsated into English as fornication most often point to prostitution or adultery in their original languages.  Which is why, I believe, we read in scripture that anyone raping a virgin suddenly becomes responsible for her welfare (In a contemporary context we are infuriated that rape is seen as the equivalent of a wedding ceremony).  For good reason.  And yet the context of the time, where women were essentially property means that the exhortation is very similar to "You break it you buy it."

We've moved past the notion of "ownership" for the most part.

One thing your boyfriend's objection does is stop the inevitable chin-wagging that would happen should you decide to live together.

Even if you tell us that you aren't sleeping together most of us would assume that you are and the more that the two of you insisted that you weren't the more we would believe that you were.  Some of us would be okay with the two of you sleeping with each other, some of us would think that it was evidence of weak moral character in the both of you.  Some of us would take every opportunity to rub your perceived moral flaws in your face everytime something went wrong in your life or your relationship.

I dated my wife for a year and we announced our engagement 18 months before the wedding.  We were wed on June 1 and our first child was born February the 24 of the following year.  Some, as soon as we announced the pregnancy, presumed that it was a shotgun wedding and conveniently ignored the reality of an 18 month engagement and a normal gestation.

I guess what I am trying to say is, it doesn't matter how pure the two of you are, there will always be doubters and that won't stop them from saying things they believe to be true even though there is no basis in fact that gives them evidence to say what they want to say.

That your boyfriend is minimizing the potential for people to cast aspersions on your character suggest that he might be a keeper.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I fall into the camp that neither cohabitation nor sex outside of marriage is a sin.  I hesitate to use the word premarital because I am at an age when many of my friends are in their second relationship (in their forties and fifties) and while they love their partner deeply they do not necessary plan to marry him/her for a variety of reasons.  I also agree with the statement that the Bible does not prohibit consensual, loving, monogamous, non-adulterous sex, nor would it have anything to offer on sharing living space.

My 2 cents, since you asked, is the seemingly discussion stopping attitude of your boyfriend.  While I think it is important to respect his faith, in an intimate relationship it is also equally important to have a relationship that allows for open, honest, and questioning dialogue about rubber hitting the road sorts of issues.  Using sin/faith to shut down a conversation before it starts is unfortunate.  While it sounds like you are in agreement about delaying sex for marriage there is disagreement about sin/cohabitation. Reading Scripture together, having a conversation about what the Bible might say to you, what your feelings might be, and some of your non-Scripture concerns (i.e. what others might say) could be a meaningful and fruitful conversation, not to mention the sort of experience that can develop intimacy in pretty powerful ways.Perhaps that might be something to propose to your friend. 

I agree with daisy Jane!

You dog.

Funny story: When my mom met my future wife, my gf was drilled about her upbringing and her parents. It was relayed that her parents were married in October 1970, and my gf was born in January 1972. To my horror, my mom then started counting on her fingers. Never mind the minimum 12 months of 1971 that occurred in-between. I was mortified by both the obvious 9-count and my mother's deteriorating math skills.

Really? I suppose there is a chivalrous intent behind his concern, but I just can't imagine taking people like that seriously. If I knew someone that uptight, I'd have a field day. Off the top of my head, I'd "pretend" to find a condom wrapper in their sofa (bonus points if empty wrapper), or push boundaries with jokes and see how red-faced I could get them. Maybe introduce them to some of the new terms. After all, if they're that interested in sex, it's only polite that you feed their curiosity.

We finally got married because we felt it was about time to "seal the deal". Our parents finally met each other, everyone enjoyed each other's company--felt the family vibe-- and we started to wonder why we weren't already married. My husband decided it was about time to get serious about it. For him, to take that step was finally becoming an adult in a sense (a bit of a late bloomer I guess)and making that step was taking responsibility in and of itself. It did feel like a rite of passage. I had all but decided up until then we  probably weren't going to have a ceremony...but then it happened, things changed. Not because anything in particular changed between us in our relationship. But the decision came over us. It just seemed like the natural next step, and the "adult" thing to do, to take that step...like "What are we afraid of? We love each other. We're together. We know each other well and we've already been through a lot together. Let's do this already!".

We lived together  "in sin" for a few years before that, but it didn't feel sinful. What feels sinful is that others still judge an adult couple's choices to live together when they have no idea about that couple's relationship, and if there's no harm in it, it's none of their business.

I think the decision about living accomodations pre the actual wedding need to be comfortable for both of you.  Personally - we lived separately beforehand but there again we met and married within six months.  There wasn't sufficient space in either of our 'single residences' for a partner, and it took time to find a place to share.

I can't imagine asking personal quetions about the length of time before the wedding and the arrival of the first baby.  I just don't think it is my business to know that info and I'm basically not interested.  Do people really care about such things?  I know my mother did, but that was in a previous century.  She adapted once a child 'lived with' a partner.  By the time the grandkids started living together with their cosen mates she, like many others, considered it quite normal and acceptable.

Falling back on an argument that doesnt' make sense would bother me a bit.  I think I would expect him to be able to back up his thoughts about 'sin' if he is going to use that argument.  There would be lots of options for discussions around 'how do we know things', and 'should we believe everything we hear', and 'what guidelines do we want to use in our disagreements?'.

Congratulations to you both for at least talking about this topic - many people act first and start thinking later.  I know some young women who are struggling with this issue, after allowing a guy to move in with them with the understanding that intercourse was part of the deal.  Unfortunately they didn't come to a prior agreement about money, household expenses, housework etc...........  

I think it's become a lot more acceptable these days to do so so I think the problem of gossip is going to be less than it was even when I was engaging in premartial cohabitation in the nineties. I mean, let's get real, William and Kate shared quarters at times during their courtship and if the future king can get away with it...

For my part, we didn't live together full time before marriage, but given that we lived a fair distance apart for some of that time (her in Halifax, me in Hamilton) we inevitably did so when we did manage to spend time together. And while we weren't loudly announcing it or anything, anyone with a brain had to realize it was going on (Hmmmm, her apartment is in Halifax so where does she live when she's visiting Mendalla in Hamilton? A hotel? The couch? ). No major repercussions but I'm sure a few family had to turn blind eyes.

So, I see no real issue with doing so BUT I'm not a Christian and even as a Christian didn't have your boyfriend's perspective.

Mendalla

Interestingly enough, "Common Law" was originally a specific type of church sanctioned marriage.

Perhaps your boyfriend is using his faith to avoid having to wrestle with a major temptation.  Most women don't seem to understand how hard it is on a man to temper his sexual urges.  In fact, many guys have told me its extremely difficult and downright uncomfortable to have a desirable, but unavailable female around.

Moving in together just might be too much for him to deal with, on several levels, right now.

Hi chansen,

Can be somewhat of a pit-bull.  Which is why nobody ever made such comments within my hearing I suppose.  I did make sure that the rumour mill which brought that news to me had a definite report of how funny I found such gossip and the primitive means I knew to bring it to a sudden and swift end.

If that didn't stop the rumour it at the very least kept messengers bearing such false news well away from my family.

It is a respect thing.  As the father of two teenage daughters I can tell you that the respect paid to them by others dramatically raises or lowers my appreciation, respect and patience I have for those others.

I suspect you'll appreciate that better in a few years or so.

Grace and peace to you.

John

To me, my boyfriend worrying about what the rumourville is saying is not showing respect to me.  Being respectful would be at least hearing out my opinion of a major decision and working out a compromise, even if my boyfriend didn't agree with me.  The rumourville shouldn't be factored into a major decision, IMO.

Bears repeating.

If you allow yourself to be influenced by busybodies who live to disapprove of young couples, you're a wuss. If there is an actual reason not to shack up, the biggest one to me would be that he is more interested in the opinions of older people who are in desperate need of a copy of 50 Shades of Grey, than he is in your thoughts on the matter.

By the fiance stage, the bloke will have either won or lost my support. I joke about putting my daughter in a burka and lock her in her room until she's 30, but the truth is that my job is to instill sufficient wisdom and self-esteem that she isn't making immature decisions. My daughter will, by the odds, move in with some guy before she gets married. I hope she does. I think it's important to know if you can co-habitate before the wedding. Seems stupid not to.

....very insightful post Witch  .... thank you.....

Rita

I can no longer believe that living together before marriage, either with or without sex, is a sin.  If it is a commitment to each other and a trust relationship, then how is it different from a "marriage"?  Marriages break up too.  All that may be missing in a non-marriage relationship or common law marriage, is that little slip of paper that says it is legal in the eyes of the law.

I lived with my husband before we married. I needed to know this was a person I could live with (and that he could live with me!) My parents never questioned it, probably because they know me well. (I frankly do not care what 'others' think.)

I/we never hid the fact that we were 'together' before we were married (this posting is the first I've seen in YEARS wrestling with this). Additionally: we were married within a year of knowing each other; we were both over 25; we bought a house and had a son before our 1st anniversary; we just had our 16th and still are going strong.

Actually, the only couple that I know of that had this issue ( 20 years ago) had clearly  more than 'how it would look' issues. In fact, the situation was not functional and one partner came out as gay not long--a couple of years-- into the marriage, ending it.  This was sad in that we could see there were bigger issues, and the 'keeping up appearances' piece was...not it.

I have a saying,

"If they are talking about me, they are leaving someone else who might not be able to deal with it alone."

Living my life, I learned about worrying what others (known and unknown and even loved ones)  think or say or even believe the Bible says. I learned, more importantly, the ramifications of it and thank God learned that one cannot live your life worrying about what others think or feel about it.

This is so 1950's to me.

It is a personal decision regarding ceilbacy/sex and no cohabitation/cohabitation, IMO nothing more.