Thank you, MistsofSpring, for starting this thread.

That old woman had so much wisdom. She knew where I came from and exactly where I was headed. She put herself in my way.

She was a Colour Purple woman cast in Witness. There we were among the Amish and she was the only woman of colour for miles. It never made sense why she did not just move to Ford City. Until, that is, I go to know her.

There she was sitting on her porch, picking flowers and berries, just living her life and giving nobody a care (so you thought). I had been on my own for over a year. I was a day past 18 and had committed my mom. I had returned from that and had a falling out with my step-dad and siblings who wanted skeletons to stay in the closet. I got out of the car and started kicking the car, punching anything in sight. She came over and said, "now a broke ass hand ain't gonna make nothing better" and I spun around. I know I had to look like I was going to deck her. I had not let one tear fall. She said, "go on, but it ain't gonna help", She reached out and hugged me. I squirmed but stayed put. She said, "it's ok, we all know she is crazy as a bedbug and needs some help"
(not exactly politically correct but I was reduced to a sobbing mess)

I stopped in almost every day until that woman died.

She did not mince words and she gave me tons of phrases I use to this day. I hear her in my head sometimes. Like, "you are too ornery to roll over and die but you don't see they done killed ya if you ain't living, neither" and "honey, you is being meaner than cat shit cause you is sceered."
 

She did not wrap them in religious trappings, though she was devout. Her daddy had been a minister. She didn't because the message was what she wanted me to hear and she knew I would turn a deaf ear to hearing about a God everyone told me hated me. Yes, she knew I was gay. One day she let me know she knew and I did nto have a single secret from her.

Later I would tell her how wise she was and she would say "I'm just a silly ol' woman"...

I learned her whole family was very active in the Civil Rights Movement before anyone knew who MLK Jr. was. Her father and mother and siblings came to the county when Blaine Mast was the county DA back in the 20's and was writing about the Klan and saying there was nothing wrong with the Klan and black folks could form their own KKK chapter and blacks had nothing to fear from Klansmen.

She said, "now ain't that some shit?" and then said, "but you know you cover anything in enough gravy someone gonna swallow it".

They lived in Ford City. She said crosses burned on the hills of Cowanshannock Township in the mining towns because of anti-Romanist feelings, but the Klan was the Klan. She swore she would live one day in the shadow of the hill by Dayton and that she did.

I learned that most conflict is internal. My fight with my family, religion....the world was a fight inside me. Their fight with me was inside them. I could control my adversary, because it was me.

I did not learn to be anyone's punching bag or tuck tail and run or to just keep my mouth shut. That would not have worked, because I was tired of being beaten on, laying low, or shutting up. I did not learn to fight back in kind. I was beaten and tired of fighting....
What she gave me meant I learned to stand up and to stand on my own feet when I had done nothing but "sit down and shut up", "went toe to toe" or stumbled and fell flat on my face before.

She lived long enough to see that I made it. I said "see I did not wind up in jail" and she said "jail, child I was thinking you was dead, just keep on breathing".

That is what I do, when it gets tough - I remember to keep breathing. Sometimes a deep breath helps. Sometimes so much is happening we need to be reminded to inhale.

Somewhere where real life angels gowhen they retire she is smiling about wisdom and saying "I'm just a silly ol' woman"

I tried when my children were little, telling them that I wasn't as interested in what someone else had said as I was in what they said back.   They were to conduct themselves with as much dignity as possible and not sink to a level where they would say or do anything that they might be ashamed of.    They were to act rather than react - and they alone were responsible for their actions.   No one should be able to 'make them' swear, or call names, or use fowl language, or hit.  

I'm not perfect myself.  I can get hurt, insulted, and angry and sometimes I lash out.  Yes, I've used words that I'm ashamed of, words that I wouldn't want anybody to hear and associate with me.  But I can resolve to do better.  I can try again.

I wish governments would learn this.  It doesn't matter so much what the enemy does - as what we do.   That they use torture doesn't justify our using it.  That they trample human rights, doesn't justify our doing so.

SG, thankyou for sharing that "silly ol woman's wisdom"

Best thread I've read in a while!  (I'll bet they could make a whole movie, just based on that little snippet you offered)

Yes it is absolutely wonderful stuff especially if you're looking for an excuse to stand back from the fray that is life while tut tutting your disapproval, not being willing or able to say shit even when you have a mouth full of it.  Somebody else gets to wrestle with the dragons while you stand back keeping your hands squeeky clean. Very freeing, don't you agree? 

I could keep on in that vein for 3 or 4 days, impervious, persistent, impertinent ... but we've already experienced that recently so I won't subject you to it again. 

Even now I think I can hear the keys clicking from here and I am wondering the sorts of reasonable peaceful arguments you were preparing for my edification.  I can feel your patience coming through the ether.  I am wondering whether when I finish typing this paragraph and hit "save" what loving mesage you will have already left for me.  So I will give you my full apology now.  It was just a test.  Were you going to pass?  Or had you already failed?

I know ... its not very nice to test your friends and I apologize for that too...

qwerty ... I'm confused ... which comments are you referencing? 

qwerty,

Something you feel the need to say?

There is a world of difference between being respectfully assertive and "tearing someone a new one."  It's possible to walk straight in to the middle of the battle and to fight a strong fight without resorting to cheap shots or escalating a conflict with rudeness.  It's even possible to win the battle; in fact, I think the battle is far more likely to be won by choosing words carefully.  Far from remaining squeaky clean, carefully chosen words can be weapons that are a sharp as scalpels in a conflict if need be, or as calming as a babbling brook to bring down the anger involved.  The win doesn't necessarily go to the loudest or the rudest, and saying things politely doesn't mean that you don't say anything at all.

I agree in principle with all that you say SG.  The devil is, however, in the details.  For instance, when a troll is trying to gnaw off your leg it would be nice to think that there was someone around who, if they weren't going to actually help, might not look too disapprovingly at you when you hit it with a stick and perhaps make some unfriendly noises just to scare it off and might at least refrain from tut tutting about the viciousness of ones right hook and could be counted on to have the decency and the tact not to resuscitate it and revive it by giving it nice refreshing drink once one has wrestled it to the floor.  Sometimes it is necessary to take a stand and when one does, one ought not to pull ones punches.  Peace has its attractions but so does resolution and loyalty and, dare I say, the intestinal fortitude to do the needful.

...and I don't think I need to be given lessons on how to choose and use words "like scalpels".  

And Mists I am also perfectly willing to "tear someone a new one" if a a "new one" is what they apparently need.

... and now I really do need to take that wondersabbatical.  Fighting trolls is hard and tiring work especially when you are doing it by yourself.  I need to do something more relaxing for awhile. Whaddya think? Skydiving? Bullfighting?  Lion tamer?  Snake handling? Mercenary? Challenge Everest? War correspondent? ... Race car  driver? ... United Chrch minister ???  I'm sure I'll find something ...

Qwerty, fighting trolls or anything is exhausting and frankly unrewarding.  The troll simply crawls back under the bridge, regains its foul breath and comes back another day.

Its similar to laundry, never ending.

One has two choices when fighting such creatures:  Don't or do it for fun.  If choosing the latter one must also choose not to rely on anyone else to appreciate or join in for they too have a choice and/or more pressing obligations on their time...

like laundry.

For conflict resolution I use a technique that  I learned in Mental Health - it works well, at least for my personal mental health, both in the real and the virtual world. 

First, when dealing with an irrational person one does not apply logic, rationality or common sense.  Any attempt to doing so will result in failure, exhaustion and a pounding headache from smashing one's head against the wall of insanity. 

(as an aside, I have found this particularly effective in dealing with Corporate executives and government officials).

Second, one lowers one voice.  Sometimes one ends up simply mouthing the words with no amplification, this forces the person to lower their voice because they, even the irrational, do not want to miss what they will perceive to be potential ammunition for attack.  (ditto for execs and bureaucrats)

With people who have repeatedly shown an inability to grasp the ability to carry out a simple conversation, I personally choose to not engage.  I have found this to be particularly useful and fun in the virtual world for it is far more amusing and less exhausting to watch the person end up arguing with themselves...

And, after all, there is only so much time in the day or Tylenol and there is always that laundry that must be done. 

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
          Sun Tzu

I seem to remember doing a fair bit of troll fighting. It seems our opinions about troll fighting differ and thus, so too do our tactics.

Trolls seek to create disruption and chaos. So, how do you fight?

You can argue and get mean and they just keep feeding. Add disruption and chaos to their pile.This is exactly what they want. You can beat them senseless, that is what they want.

You say nothing and they can't do much to you, but they keep on chewing other folks up. So, how do you get your leg out of the trap and keep them from chewing another up?

In my experience, calm nuetralizes it. If you seek disruption and chaos, calm is your kryptonite. A continued calm makes them look more and more like a nutbar or someone itching for a fight.

Trolling is subjective and there are many ways it is done. Likely, most of us could be called a troll. Calling someone a troll can just be another ad hominem attack.

I never looked at sylviac in all her incarnations as a troll. I am not saying he/she wasn't. I am saying it did not work for me to go that route. For me, someone forgetting there are people on the other side of the internet breeds bad behaviour and trolling and flaming... forgetting that flamers and trolls are people too breeds more of the same.

If I had used a stick, I, personally, would want someone to tell me to stop beating her/him. I am glad for those people who told me they saw me betraying myself just by being out of character for me. When others took a stick to her/him, even on what they thought was my behalf, I said "enough" or "stop".

Some folks believe peace is always the answer, some believe in just war and some believe in war mongering... we are each who we are.

It is tiring, so I get the need for a break. I took more than a few.