and that goes for peole through all time, i hope that hitler, between when he pulled the trigger and before the bullet went through his head even, that Christ came to him in that fraction of a second,and he embraced Christ,  and he repented, and is forgiven.

thats love

(note : typo in the OP, moron  was to be 'mormon' , and i want to note, in the OP when i say 'you' it means the world)

Stephen, think about that for a moment.

When it comes to your health, would you visit a doctor who learned at one of the best medical schools, or one who read the textbooks at home and passed a set of exams?  Closer to my field, do you want the experienced engineer designing your bridge, or someone who bought a bridge design software package?

If what you say is true, then you are lost in a wilderness of scripture, without a guide. And scripture is a dangerous, dangerous place to be. People listening to scripture have been known to devalue their lives and the lives of those around them.  But enough about DKS.

Seriously, you're in over your head. Just like I couldn't be where I am with just textbooks, you are nowhere with just a bible and unquestioning belief. That's a recipe for disaster.

chansen,

I think few of us believe the claim that there have been no other teachers.  If nothing else there is gotquestions.org and Rob at CTS that have been liberally quoted (now as to the question of the quality of teaching and learning....)

BUt I have no doubt that someone introduced you to the faith stephen.  And that person taught you a particular viewpoint from which to apporach it -- even if you are/were unaware that was happening.  In the end some people appear drawn to particualr approaches to faith and Scripture and questions about both.  That does not mean that approach is the only one available.  THis last point is the one you consistently refuse to acknowledge.  It is also why so few people here (even people who agree with much of your theology and approach to scripture) find that you are not actually interested in open discussion and expl;oration

Its to your credit Stephen Booth that you read Gods word and believe what He says - in regards to his Son and other things as well ... never stop with the study of what He says

Psalm 119:11
Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.

regards

Sorry to hear of your banning 

RH Billy ...

Stephenbooth is back again....

sockpuppet!!!

Rita

Is rhbilly a sockpuppet? I don't know, and don't care.

That he pasted only one verse is an argument against it.

chansen .... in previous postings he has said that he had posted under that name.

I have already alerted Aaron

Regards

Rita

Unalert him. I'm almost positive you're wrong. Similarly disturbed, but not to the same degree, and with different posting styles. Unless you are giving Stephen credit for being able to change his style, which has never, ever happened before.

Style is not the same at all, I agree with chansen.

I agree with chansen as well - RH Billy is his own person

Regards

RH Billy 

StephenBooth advised that he had used rhbilly's account for a period of time (I think a week).

He advised that rhbilly was a different person from him who had allowed him to use his account.

Either way, rhbilly has a very low rating in my opinion as "he" allowed his account to be used by some one that had been banned.

OK, that makes sense. It's not the same person - they're just both infected by the same teachings.

Or maybe it is Stephen on his best behaviour, in which case, my preference is still not to run off to get Aaron. Anyone who makes Christianity look that bad is welcome by me.

Hey there chansen,

"Similarly disturbed" and now "infected". Is there a reason you use such terminology? Perhaps your a doctor of some sort? Your all for those that make Christianity look bad I see. I also note that you are on friendly terms with a great many here. I guess thats because they are the ones by your reckoning, which make Christianity look bad. Were they aware that this was why you like to stand with them? It must really warm their hearts to know that they are found worthy of your friendship. Are friendships in such a short supply for them these days? Could it be that you fulfill this verse and are the embodyment of it?

Matthew 24:12
And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Yours truly,

RH Billy

I think Christianity is a disease. It spreads in much the same way as a virus does and infects us. I further think that education and critical thinking work as vaccines against religion. Doesn't mean I don't like Christians, or can't get along with them.

It often means they don't like me very much.

If you share your account with Stephen, then we have to bring your judgement into question. Are you aware he needs help? A great many people here have a great deal of concern for Stephen (myself included), and I wasn't aware that you may know him personally, until now. I hope he is well. I really do.

chansen

I can appreciate your candor and obviously disagree in matters of religion. Your expressions sound like they are garnered from the Matrix. There, those same sentiments are made towards humanity at large. For education we have discipleship and for critical thinking we have apologetics. These, to echo your euphenism, are vaccines against worldliness and hostility towards God. Doesn't mean were not in the world, were just not from it.

Obviously, your liked just fine or else you'd be gone. Whether it was of your own accord or theirs that manage this site.

I did share my account and don't post very often as you can probably tell. The moderators were made aware of our doings by Stephen himself and we were cautioned to not let it happen again. I have respect for their authority and have complied with their request. I also have respect for my friends and relatives in Christ. You are free to question my judgement. I know of myself that I try to do what is right.

What help did the great many determine to be required? The comments I see in this thread don't really support your carring assertions. Seek and you shall find otherwise your just exercising words without action.

James 2:14

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:14 again?!? Can it with the scripture - it's not impressive.

Stephen is obsessive about this place and his perceived role of saving people through sharing his beliefs and enough scripture to drown a person. If he was a friend of mine, I'd want to see him seek help for his obsession.

You seem a little on the obsessed side yourself. Have your friends expressed their concerns over this to you? They should probably address your blatant hostility towards a book (the word of God) and the apparent contradiction of regular attendance at a site funded by theists. It doesn't make a lot of sense and probably indicates that you have some sort of abnormality at the subconscious level. If left untreated, who knows what kind of problems it could cause you down the road. Although it appears that you're at risk, I'm sure you have good reasons that attempt to explain your irrational behaviour. You may however wish to retain the services of a qualified professional, just to be on the safe side.

Your words of concern for Stephen origionally posted illustrate beautifully what you believe to be true, but is it true? With a leap of faith the matter is settled on your part because honestly, you don't know him very well at all. So then, the verses I posted above relate to what you faithfully believe but have failed to act on.

So the relevance to our discussion of James 2:14 is that we have something to deal with the effectiveness you have in achieving your stated desires and James 2:18 addresses the credibility of those words you chose to use in expressing yourself.

At this point of our discourse you can rest assured that RH Billy is in the house.

Yours truly

RH Billy

rhbilly -  Chansen has never claimed to have faith, in fact he has actively denied it.  Yet his works speak for himself.  He shows compassion and caring - as well as a great sense of humour.  Many of us think of him as a friend who we agree with on many things, but not on matters of faith.  Sometimes he gets tedious there. 

But Stephen who claimed all sorts of faith, has never shown anything about his works, his compassion for others, his caring, or his interactions with others.   

If we agree with James, it is by their works that we shall know them.  Chansen's works.  Stephen's works.

Hi seeler,

Everyone has faith in something. What he doesn't have is faith in God. By their works it is determined then and by that they shall be known. By what measure shall we judge it. You mention love and so we'll use it. I'll give you another post by this time tomorrow (hopefully sooner though).

Yours truly

RH Billy

Don't be too rough on chansen. He's going through some very tough times (see Health and Aging). Cut him some slack.

Please, stop telling people to take it easy on me. I'm not looking for, nor do I need, people to "take it easy" on me.

Believe me Chansen - I don't.

But I can communicate. I listen. I actually give a damn about other things. I get out.

The only people here who have suggested that I have a problem, are the people who are most against me. In Stephen's case, people who mostly agree with him have seen behaviour that the would qualify as abnormal because of his inability to actually address anything written to him, in context.

You say I have a problem because you don't like me, and you want to make me look damaged. I enjoy discussing faith, and I simply have no interest in sitting around with a bunch of atheists and congratulating ourselves on coming to a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence and the arguments. That would bore the hell out of me. So, I come here, partly because atheists were invited to the discussion here. "Be careful what you wish for" has come to mind often.

You could quote the phone book for all I care. Your bible is not an authority, on anything. It is no better than any other ancient work of fiction, in that it has some insight into the human condition, and society, and how to do good. Meanwhile, it is also riddled with immoral directions and falsehoods and contradictions galore, to the point that you can use the bible to back up whatever point you want to make. That makes it useless when you want to illustrate a point.

I hope Stephen is well, but I certainly don't know that, and I don't suspect it. I'm not alone here.

Chansen, sorry, I forgot that you said this was therapeutic.

I don't know about "therapeutic", but I still find it within me to confront idiotic religious beliefs, and it's not fair for me to hide behind anything while I'm doing it.

You're made of tough stuff, chansen. I admire you. I'm of weaker material. I was thinking of how I would feel.

Please stop feeding the troll/RHBilly/StephenBooth!

I'm not convinced that they're the same person. Maybe I'm being gullible, but if it is Stephen, he is demonstrating an economy of words and scripture that he has never displayed before.

I cried during Dances with Wolves. More recently, I've been completely distraught. I'm not tough - I just have good lateral quickness.

You dance divineless

I always wanted to be a running back in high school football, but my serious lack of toughness kept me on the sidelines, away from trying out. I still have good lateral quicks, from skiing and other sports like racquetball and squash.

I can not dance. It's genetic.

seeler,

It was to be about love ...

1 John 4

⁸ He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Using Logic:

If  A = B  then  B = A

He who does not know God does not love

Comments?

I Corintians 13

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

I know Stephen Booth as patient and kind. He doesn't envy or boast. He is humble.

________________________________ 

 John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Hey there chansen,

Your not infallible, your wrong about a great many things.

Infallible

1. absolutely trustworthy or sure: an infallible rule.

It appears that your friends hide the truth from you while Stephen tried to be a real friend and posted what he knows to be true.

Yours truly,

RH Billy

Understood ...

When the hell did I suggest I was infallible? Maybe you are Stephen - like him, you continue down conversational roads that nobody ever turned to in the first place.

I have no doubt that Stephen thinks he is right about Jesus, but the dude is delusional. He is a living warning sign about the effects of Christianity, just like those mug shots you see of meth addicts. Some of them think I should try meth, too.

Please stop feeding the serpent, he becomes a dragon just before the end!

Relax chansen,

I'm not your enemy. Simply look at your post and reconsider your position on a few things. There's nothing to loose and everything to gain from such a practice.

Attack, Attack, Attack ...

Isaiah 59

⁸ The way of peace they have not known,
And there is no justice in their ways;
They have made themselves crooked paths;
Whoever takes that way shall not know peace.

Yours truly,

RH Billy

You see these sad people who are trolls get a lot of enjoyment out of creating conflict, tricking people and hurting people. Thus much like the long term drug user they are not going to stop, but just change ID and characteristics. On sites like this they will bate us with thingsthatbare offense to us, while on fundementalist sites they will creat outrageously liberal sock puppets. They are seeking attention, but because they do not have an authentic real personality, they will nevr succeed in getting attention or happiness for themselves, after all it is only their fake sock puppets that do. They have no opinions, or beliefs I supect other than a nagging feel that they hate themselves and want to supress that feeling.

I nailed Sb a long time ago for someone who was faking a learning disability. I suspect this is the same person, just because as i said before when you are addicted to something for pleasure, and are void of a real personality you will keep going back to your sources of pleasures. They are tricksters, but remembers that the guy from Montreal who killed a man and cideotaped it, and mailed the parts of the body, was a long time internet troll, who just went on to be more extreme.

False premise.  A + B, then  B = A  only works in math.   Consider in life;  Anna loves her son, but he totally rejects her.  Bob loves his wife, but she has lost interest in him.   No, your equation doesn't hold water when we are talking about love. 

So let's keep names out of this.   God is love.  God loves X and Y. 

X does not acknowledge God's love, or love God in return, but by his works he shows love, compassion, caring, charity, and mercy to others. 

Y acknowledges God's love and claims to love God in return, but exhibits on love, compassion, caring or mercy to others.  

It seems to me that X meets the criteria set out in James much better than Y does.  "By their works you shall know them."

I do not know enough about actual deeds of X or Y to know if their deeds are evil.  However, it seems to me that if someone continually breaks rules, as though he is somehow above the law and gets himself kicked off a site numerous times, despite the members and administration exercising almost infinite patience, he is not showing much humility, and his deeds speak for themselves. 

As for your final quote:   While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  

Speaks for itself.    If Christ died for sinners, and we are all sinners, Christ died for us all - including X and Y.

Bad logic. 1 John 4 could be framed as "if X then Y", where X = does not love, Y = does not know God.
.
You are trying to say "if X then Y" leads logically to "if Y then X". That does not follow.
.
Example,
"if one lives in Los Angeles, one lives in California".
.
That does not imply,
.
"if one lives in California, one lives in Los Angeles."
.
Nor does "God is love" translate to A = B.
.
"Jack is a red-head" does not imply "a randomly selected red-head must be Jack."
.
God may be love, but that not mean other things may not be love too. God is one manifestation of love, not necessarily the only thing.
.
Re: Stephen, I found him rude and inconsiderate.

Hi folks, if in doubt, drop a line to Admin and ask them to do some investigations.  Let them have Canada Day weekend though in peace, if you can.

He's not the same person. No spelling mistakes, posts are short, sentence construction much better. The other guy was barely literate.
.
Alex is indulging in conspiracy theories. He sees sock puppets everywhere.

During the course of my lengthy participation here, I've seen many sockpuppets come & reappear. I don't think Alex is being unreasonable in his assessment. A troll is perfectly capable of inventing several personae - not just "fundies". I think we'd be surprised @ how we've been played by those who we would not expect to. There are other possibilities too - a few trolly friends, and presto - much satisfying chaos for the trolls. Also, groups of more rigid believers might be attacking the site vs engaging in respectful discussion. "My name is Legion" is a fitting biblical reference. I could also be suffering from post traumatic sockpuppet syndrome.....
Just sayin'

I have noticed a tendency for some trolls to trot out their other sockpuppets right away when they are banned. Never fails.

Certainly, there are people who absolutely hate that there are people out there who call themselves "Christians" but who do not believe all the crazy bible stories and claims as written. This makes them apoplectic. Stephen is definitely among them.

Could Stephen feign an inability to write and communicate as part of a greater trolling strategy? Possible. Do I care? No. I kinda hope he comes back. Maybe he has.

As for the danger of dealing with people like this, that's why I'm no longer discussing where I live on this site. The last time I identified where I lived on this site, it was just before we moved. There are enough "chansen"s in the world that I feel sufficiently safe.

Hi there EasternOthodox,

Contare ...

you say "could be framed" - a twist to be sure because the verse clearly equates the two - it does not say the one leads to the other. The bad logic is on your part ... hopefully you can see that

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

A - he who does not love

B - he does not know God

A = B

Yours truly,

RH Billy

So, then, if God is love, and love is blind, does that mean God is blind?

Actuall there is a troll community and they have sevral sites and places online where they gather and share strategies.   Troll target religious and political sites, not becasue they have political or religious agendas, but because that is where theri trolling is most successful, because people holding strong views on important issues usually bite. 

Generaly (again no one trait defines a troll, but having a basket of certain traits does..  The thing that alerted me to SB being a troll was his name. Often they give themselves away in theior names.  His name ended in hoot, and one definition To make a loud raucous cry especially of derision or contempt, another use of the word is in the phrase I do not give a hoot.  A hootenany is an informal performance with the participation of the audience.

Or sometimes  Men will adopt female names that in their eyes reflect negatively on women. Like Shedevil.

Or sometimes they use ryhmes, as billy rymes with silly.

Another thing is thye rarely answer directly to questions about who they are, as it is too difficult to keep track of personal stories and those that do will often confuse personaly stories among their various puppets. 

Go to the thread What is a troll to see other signs of a troll.

This is essentially why last year I suggested that everyone stop replying to Stephen, because I thought we were egging him on. The way you fight a troll, is to stop fighting...stop replying. If they don't have anyone replying, they eventually leave.

I couldn't get enough people here to do that. They played into Stephen's hand, flagging his posts and complaining about what he wrote, which he loved. I'm not sure that he liked me skewering him, because I still think his ultimate motive was to preach.