Hi chemgal,

Sounds pretty normal for me.  If my eyes are closed for too long I fall asleep.  Which means that I never close my eyes while praying unless I am standing on my feet.  Why doesn't happen for you?  I have no idea.  Are you thinking about a ton of things that you need to do tomorrow when you go to bed.  I tend to think about how well the day has gone rather than what I have to do next.

Not really a problem here.  My wife gets annoyed if I get through my evening routine before she does because she knows I'll be asleep before she gets to bed.  What annoys me is when she tries to have a conversation after my head has hit the pillow.  I'm not lying down to think I'm lying down to rest.

Grace and peace to you.

John

LOL at the turkeys comment. That was a coffee spitting moment. Boys will be boys, I guess. My hubby also falls asleep pretty quickly compared to me usually, and is often a deeper sleeper than I am too. When he says, "I'm tired, I'm going to bed." He means it.  I can see it all over him, and that he's going to be asleep in no time. It hits him instantly.He can do that right after he comes home from work (he works late/ early shifts)--whereas even when I come home and am tired, I still need wind-down time to shut my brain off. He doesn't apparently. He'll be out like a light within 10 minutes if he says "I'm tired. I'm going to bed.". And if I get into bed after him, somehow, I don't know how, the sheets are often all screwed up and the blankets twisted by the time I get there--or he is wrapped up like a sausage roll and half of him is stretched out diagonally and taking up my side--and he gets annoyed if I have to wake him up so I can straighten the blankets and pillows out and get comfortable. I don't like to wake him, but I have to get some sleep too! That's life when sharing a bed I guess! I don't get too annoyed. I'm used to it--and so, I compromise the inconvenience for the comfort of having him there beside me.

no wonder some couples sleep in separate beds ;3

OK---I am not resentful that my husband is a deeper sleeper and the blanket issue is easily resolved, just takes a nudge and a couple of seconds to fix. I admit, I have been known to steal the covers from him in the middle of the night too--but one thing that does annoy me a little is that he's a pillow scruncher and buncher and folder-overer! All the pillows in the house--they don't last long if he gets at them! LOL. I get annoyed because I try to point out that they stay fluffier and more comfortable if they don't get scrunched and folded all the time--and they last longer. It's an unconscious habit of his, though. Maybe we ought to look for industrial strength pillows. I don't buy expensive ones. Maybe I need to invest in a couple. 

lol It was actually turkeys one time.  A special quest for Thanksgiving or something.

Glad to hear it's not just me Kimmio!  Chemguy has a habit of picking up his pillow in his sleep and sticking it right in the middle of the bed, partially covering mine or shoving mine onto the floor.  He'll be sprawled out taking over the entire bed.  I have no problem waking him up if needed though, as he'll just be back asleep.

Solution.....twin beds, maybe?

chemgal -he must play wow. i too hve killed turkeys!

just so that we have equal opportunity sleepers -- i am the pillow scruncher -- solution -- buy better pillows.   I am also the "goes to sleep within 5 min of eyes closed".   I wasn't always like that, but, definitely am now.

I doubt I even last five minutes after my head hits the pillow. If I'm somewhere besides home (or hippie's), I i) bring my own pillow if possible, and ii) bring a lot of meditation/self-hypnosis tracks on my mp3 player. Good sleep is pretty important to me. I was married for a dozen years to an unrepentant thrashing high decibel snorer, and didn't have a decent night's sleep in all that time; makes you a bit crazy eventually.

perhaps this will shed some light on the issue...

http://gahzette.blogspot.ca/2009/06/why-women-cant-sleep.html

LOL. Hilarious!

err...uhm...on second thought ...should I feel bad for laughing...maybe that's stereotyping? The first  picture is probably a good description of my brain anyway  ;)

yep that is pretty much my brain too.

Thing is, it's the men who are getting stereotyped here. Trust me, there's a lot more going on in my brain than THAT. If THAT's all I had in my brain, I'd have a very stress-free life and that is one thing I do not currently enjoy.

Mendalla

Mendalla, I think there is a certain amount of truth to it though, at least when many men are trying to get to sleep.  Once he's ready to sleep my husband has nothing to say.  If I ask him a question, the answer is always "just ready to sleep".

I've never really looked into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a biological difference between what's going through men's and women's minds once they go to bed.  Hormones do make a difference for me, so a biological difference seems likely.

Hi All,

Just to make sure that I am getting the stereotypes right (how embarrasing is it to be on the wrong stereotype page eh?)

Are we saying that the female mind is a perpetual motion machine which requires a tremendous amount of enrgy to move little tiny balls all through the machine for no discernible purpose other than movement (which may explain the constant female need to rearrange furniture)?  Because I can see how that kind of overstimulation could keep folk up all night.

And are we saying that the male mind enjoys cuddling and the release of endorphins cuddling with a loved one affords and therefore lulls itself easily into a post-coital stupor?  Because based on personal observation if I go to bed with cuddling on the brain falling asleep never happens so easily.

So hope I got those stereotypes right, I wouldn't want to offend anyone by getting the wrong ones.

Grace and peace to you.

John

lol, well played.

Well, it looked to me like the second brain picture had more vigorous activity than cuddling in it...it's not cuddling on that brain!  LOL. Cuddling itself would, to me anyway, actually have a calming affect to the exessive busy-ness on the first brain--with or without any vigorous activity beforehand! The vigorous activity has it's time and place--not when anyone is overtired or for some reason has too much  stress inducing minutia spinning in the brain--I have found.

And yes, I can be known  sometimes to be kept up at night with thoughts of rearranging furniture or similar things--i.e. how much time it will take to do it, and what day of the week it should happen--and will it conflict with something else happening, and what to do with any displaced items after it's moved--should they go to recycling? Are we allowed to put that in the building's recycling area, or do they have to be taken somewhere? Can they be picked up? I wonder what the pick up times are? Or maybe Jane wants them? But how will we get them to her? Can she come by and get them? I wonder what her schedule is like? (and this is before we've even moved anything)--or various thoughts of a similar sort. Silly, but true--because my brain also ultimately knows it's not that important--nothing that can't wait until tomorrow...but then sometimes, I find myself frustrated by the fact that I am "planning' ahead whenever my brain feels like it--thoughts that can't be compartmentalized without a concerted effort--and the other half is not inclined the same way. At least not at 11 p.m. when my brain would prefer to plan details, to set up the next week of activities in advance.  But, alas, his brain just doesn't seem to work the same, so we work around it. It seems I am not the only one who experiences this--good to know!

All I know is that I may wake up in the middle of the night because I forgot to do something and that it never happens to my husband.  He thinks I'm nuts when I get out of bed because I woke up at 3am remembering that we didn't take something out of the freezer to defrost, or there was an email I didn't respond to, or my cell phone needs to be plugged in.

I think women in general do have much more going on in their minds at a time.  Men I think tend to have only one thing on their mind at a time.  Which is why my husband is incapable of having a conversation with me if there's a cartoon character on tv!

Me too! I wake up and think of little things I forgot too! My husband can't fathom that either. If he is sleeping, there's no way he would wake up just to plug in the cell phone  or check the bus schedule for something happening two days from now just in case he were to forget again tomorrow!  He would certainlty wait until morning...but if I don;t do it, I won't fall back asleep until I do.  think I might have a bit of OCD. Also, I might have learned it from my mom. She is an ultra planner. She likes to plan details months in advance and I wouldn't be surpirised if the details of those far off events keep her up at times. I'm not quite that hard core--well, not usually anyway. If there is a really big event coming up I might be-like our wedding-- I was kept up over details quite frequently until the time came! ;)

For us, it is Seinfeld re-runs. He knows them inside and out and is mesmerized by them. Laughs at the same jokes over and over--never tiring of them. Especially George. George is his favourite. I have to wait until the commercial to discuss anything significant. I find some of them funny too--but they don't stop me in my tracks.

Oh well. It works out. I  look at myself and learn I need to let go a little, and he learns he needs to plan ahead a bit better--and if  we can meet in the middle-we're great..

You might say that I am more like Martha at times (maybe most of  the time), than like Mary. But we know relatively little about either of them. Maybe their roles/ reactions would have been reversed in other situations. Maybe that would make a good thread topic in R&F(did we already have one such thread?)

both pandemonium and i (being FFF) both snore.

really loudly

there would be some times when i would wake up during her snoring cycle and it would hit me with a bit of horror -- inescapable mindfulness with unpleasant ambient sound

i got used to that -- no more instances of co(s)mic existential nihilistic horror

now, i know the positions that tend to get me snoring earlier than pandemonium can get to sleep -- she lets me know

lol I wish!  I can have the tv on mute but if a cartoon character shows up, even for a commercial he's immediately drawn to it.  It's actually kind of amusing at times.  In some ways, he's a 3 year old trapped in an adult's body but he does have the maturity when it really counts!

My wife is almost always sleeping well before when I fall asleep most of the time.  Maybe I have an overactive feminine side --that might explain my brain wanting to process many kinds of information when I am trying to get to sleep.

If your husband's like me, it could just be that he's a "morning person". I'm up and active by 7, 7:30 at the latest most days. Been like that forever (at least since high school). My wife, by contrast, often sleeps until 9 if she doesn't have a good reason to rise earlier. In the evening, that translates to me pretty much zonked by 10 and asleep or close to it by 11, while she reads until midnight or later. So, if she suddenly wants to talk to me at 11pm, she's SOL (s**t outta luck) most nights because my brain has just clicked on the shutdown option in its start menu. However, I also know men who fit a similar profile to her. So, I'm not sure if it's really a sex difference or more of a personality type (that could, perhaps, be more prevalent in one sex than in another).

Mendalla

Some recent studies have indicated only 3hrs of sleep may be required for some people.  Others require 8hrs.  dependent on when you are going to bed you may actually not require the amount of sleep you are getting, and so are not tired.

I read that people who sleep less than 6 hrs per night are more at risk of early and sudden death from a stroke. I'm probably one of those at risk, altering the statistics, because I can feel it. I feel really unwell when I lack sleep. Also, it increases chance of obesity and heart conditions and all kinds of health problems. And I don't think it's good for mental health. All I know is if I sleep less than 6 hrs, especially if it's--say 4-5 hours a couple of times in a week--one day is sort of manageable, but if I don't catch up fully the next day,  I feel drunk almost--can't focus, even more loss of balance and coordination--I'm an accident waiting to happen--and I can't get anything done.

But I have met people who can function on 3 hrs of sleep. Elderly people seem to need less. Adolescents need about 10 hrs. The average for adults is 8 hrs.

Lack of sleep--for thiose who need a certain amount  I guess--can also affect the immune system. There was a point in time when I was really over-stressed at my job-in early, staying late, couldn't get a restful sleep--and i was getting frequent colds and flus (everyone at work was getting sick that year too, not just me, but I had particular bad fortune with it). I had a stretch of three in a row that turned into bronchitis and an ear infection, and I know lack of sleep was involved because it was impeding my recovery time, and I just felt like a stuffy achey overall bag of  crap for a few months--made even worse by the fact that our employer expected us to push through it, to come to work still sick--so I was just not getting better and was worried about the whole thing and about how it was affecting my job--I remember getting angry with myself for not getting better so that I could work better. It sucked.. I imagine that isn't too uncommon--that's the workplace culture in so many places--and would take years off a persons life if ongoing.That was a few years ago--but managing stress and sleep (the best I can anyway-- two go hand in hand for me)--I've been okay since. No bad colds anyway. It still does affect my overall well-being if I lack sleep ongoing though. I'm leary of studies that say people need less sleep--we know that our society is lacking sleep and overworked--I can see it in the zombie-like faces of the worker ants taking transit, shuffling through the stations and up and down the escalators single file--heading downtown in the morning and home again. There are just as many stiudies that say we need more sleep--and I am inclined to believe them more.  I wonder who commissions them. The less sleep studies are convenient for those who, because time is money, want for people to need less sleep and handle more stress on their bodies and minds.

Kimmio

The point of the article is that different people at different times require different amounts of sleep.

To insist that someone who doesn't get 8hrs of sleep a night is going to be unhealthy, or obese or...whatever is just unfair and causes stress for people who don't require it.

People lying in bed thinking they should be sleeping, worrying they are insomniacs, when they just don't need sleep.

Fair enough. Some people don't need it.  Their health itself, and how they feel after a certain number of hours of sleep,would probably be a good indicator. But I am just saying I don't think that's the norm to need little sleep. It's just as dangerous to tell everyone that they need less sleep.

Only sometimes, Chemgal?  You're good to go

The concept of 8hrs of sleep is a recent invention, kinda like the stay at home mom was and is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783

8 hrs continuous maybe is a new invention perhaps. I don't think the article is suggesting we need less sleep as an optimium, just different patterns of sleep--however we don't have the option in most cases. I know some cultures value 'siestas' (wish ours did).  But most of us can't take 4 hour rest breaks in the middle of the day--let alone 1hour. If we could break up our sleep, I would say, hooray, good idea. However,it's just not productiveaccording to how most workdays are set up, so we've trained ourselves to sleep throughout the night--yeah, I can see that. However, I do this and shouldn't--if  I wake up in the middle of the night, I often can't fall asleep within hours if I do anything useful--but what else am I going to do if I can't sleep? So I stay up. The problem is, it just gets my brain ticking into overdrive again, and i will be flat out exhausted by the time I am "supposed to" be up to do anything useful like go to work or concentrate on transit routes to an important appointment, etc. etc.. My brain might be partially awake, but it is not fully rested, nor are my muscles--they're just not cooperating with my desire to sleep. I hate that. So, I have no choice but to lie there and try to fall back alseep somehow--because by mid morning, if I don't, I will be useless. I need at least 6 hours. Preferably 8.

Yes, just sometimes! :)

He got stuck staying in a small town earlier this week when a highway was closed and I did miss him!

There are other articles on how the amount of sleep varies per individual, Kimmio.  I  posted that one regarding sleep patterns as it does highlight how we think things are normal which really are new creations.

...ps...I wish you wouldn't edit posts repeatedly.  I come looking for new material, as there is a "new post", and find it is only that you have re-editted a post again.

Geez, sorry Pinga.  There are reasons--attention deficit maybe, not so fast typing, also. And sometimes I get a thought about the same comment after and it doesn't make sense to make a whole new post. There are reasons for it and they are not, "Let's see if I can annoy Pinga." Obiviously, I don't do it to p***people off. But most of my posts seem to p*** you off. or you like to argue with me, just because I get the feeling you don't like me so you don't think about what I am trying to say before you retort. So, I won't reply to yours if you'd rather I didn't. Might be better for both of us. I'm in a bad mood.

Others have asked me to not edit my posts so often as well. It is either that or leave posts up with lots of typos, errors and incomplete thoughts. So, I choose the former. I didn't think it was such a big deal. I click on people's editted posts sometimes too, and it's one second of inconvenience. I notice, "Okay. I already read this." and I move on.

 understand Kimmio-I too often make typos and then correct them

Sometimes I envy those of you with husbands or wives,

Some days it is hard doing the household and the kids all on my own. Planning for the future with just my income, having no-one to take over part of the work or to say well done-thanks.

No one to share the future-the growing old together.

But most days I just carry on and enjoy what I have A friend has a saying "It takes a great man to replace having no man in your life"

Nobody is interferring with my sleep preferences!

oh gee I am SO Martha! My husband is Mary all the way.

That was very interesting and makes a lot of sense. I often will wake up with something on my brain, go downstairs and deal with it and then return to sleep. Letters to the editor, looking something up, etc. My husband, once asleep after taking his meds, isn't even woken up by the smoke alarm. Good thing ONE of us is a light sleeper. Gee.

Hi Tabitha, You never know what's around the corner for you!

It's true that having a partner is beneficial in many ways. I wouldn't trade him in for the world! ;) But we are still individuals, and as such, we have different habits--some of his drive me a little nuts--as do, I'm sure, some of mine.

Wow Kimmio - Your response to my request was over the top.

Yes, it  was. I apologize for reacting so strongly. I guess I just feel like quite often you have negative responses to my posts and are quick to rebut me, I don't know why me in particular--maybe it's because we got off on the wrong foot my first few days on WC--we strongly disagreed on a topic we both felt strongly about-- and maybe first impressions stick the strongest--but it feels(to me) like your responses to me are often more about something to do with me than about my posts--I've taken your responses quite personally more than once-- and it hit my last nerve yesterday. I may have been misinterpeting it though--it can be hard to tell in this medium, and I was having an emotional day. I will be careful not respond like that to you going forward.

Kimmio, to be honest, I have no concept of your posts over anyone else's, nor do you have a mark on me either negatively or positvely.  You are a poster, and as such, you get the same response as any other poster does.  If you find that I am critical of your posts more than others, then I suggest that speaks more about how you feel towards me than how I feel towards you. 

Knowing how you interpret them, I will do my best to not respond to your posts.

ah, Pinga, isnt this world great? hahahaha It is funny when people take thinga on WC as if they are gospel. Kimmio , try taking things more with a grain of salt.

Pinga,

I'm glad you found this :3

it's interesting how a social game like that, 8 hours sleep, can be so powerful...

i also recall a study done on people sleeping in a place with no clues as to the time...and the interesting results...

i find that the goodness of my sleep depends more on when i get to sleep rather than how much...if I go to sleep from 12 midnite on I'll not feel as good as if I go to sleep before 10 am (my boi was really good at letting me know -- he'd come searching for me at 10 pm)

also i find that if i have to crunch sleep in that i make sure it is in 90 minute blocks...if i try to cut it any shorter i tend to get cranky

i think the upthrust of this is, like everything else, to encourage people to be mindful and experiment to know themselves better instead of automatically adhering to some societal/created norm...

which can be hard to do...when i was really fluent with my speech after the ISTAR speech program i ran up against the societal norm which is to speak VERY QUICKLY, so i felt like Treebeard trying to have a conversation :3

EDIT:  here's a fun place to start with things sleepy -- circadian rhythm!