That sounds like quite the predicament... I'm afraid I have no tips for you, though. While I think that waiting is a bad idea, I just want to wish you luck! I'm sure somebody else here will be able to help you more than my little wish of luck, however ;)

People don't wait.

It's next to impossible. God designed it that way

Practically everyone who says they waited... didn't.

And to top it all off, you've been lied to. THe Bible does not forbid sex before marriage.

Ultimately you have to find what works for you. I don't believe it's a Biblical commandment to wait until marriage before having sex HOWEVER it MIGHT be the right thing for the two of you. You're individuals and what works for someone else might be an ill fit for you. The surest thing to say is to talk about it together and pray about it together. If it's important enough to wait, you'll (with GOD's help) find the strength to do so. If it's not that big a priority then sooner or later you'll have sex, and maybe that's not such a bad thing. You should definitely educate yourself about sex and birth control EVEN IF you have no intention of having sex. People change their mind on the spur of the moment all the time. If you're both virgins then stds won't be an issue, but pregnancy would be. Be safe, healthy and happy.

Hello More-than-a-Sparrow and welcome to WonderCafe,

Sounds like you do, indeed, have a complaint.

Waited until what?  Marriage?  A committed relationship?

This is a question about which we can give you all kinds of advice.  Some will even tell you straight up that they know the mind of God on this and will throw all kinds of scripture, mostly their own interpretation of scripture, at you.

You and your guy are the ones on the horns of the dilemma.  Your faith will shape your actions together which is as it should be.  My faith or the faith of any other are not the positions you need to abide by.

If you search the site you will find that there are some who argue strenuously and faithfully that pre-marital sex is sin.  You will also find that there are some who argue just as strenuously that the concept of "fornication" is poor translation and scholarship surrounding the King James Translation.

God is about relationships and Christ is about life in abundance.  Somewhere in all of that lies the domain of physical intimacy.  Which exercised properly is beautiful, fulfilling and brings individuals closer.  It has a flip-side when exercised improperly which is ultimately ugly, leaves individuals wanting and builds walls around hearts that future relationships find difficult to penetrate.

I believe that the only difference between proper and improper relationship is the honour you offer to the other.

I had offers before my wife.  None came in the context of a committed relationship and knowing myself I deliberately stopped short so as to spare myself a deeper pain should the relationship not prove to be a lasting one.

My wife and I were committed to one another long before any legal ceremony and I did not deliberately stop myself.  She is still the only woman I have been physically intimate with.  And that is only my story.  It is not a proof or a justification for your story.

I believe in a God who is gracious.  Should you make a decision to go further and after following through with that decision feel guilt about doing so I am confident that you will not be the first or the last to take those feelings of guilt to God asking forgiveness and receiving it.

By mutual agreement.  It is careful planning that hinders spontaneity and certainly ensures that you don't find yourself alone, at the height of passion, saying "what next?"  Was it pleasant?  Not always.  Sitting on the brake while the engine is revving hurts.

By recognizing that the little voice was my friend and wanted only what I really wanted.  Specifically a relationship that would last and not just to scratch a particular itch.  Of course, by that time I had had several wicked bouts with poison ivy so the discipline not to give in to the itch was something that I had been building.

I do not advise getting poison ivy as practice.

Being true to yourself is the most solid way I know to avoid compromises that will lead you to beat yourself up.  If the two of you are both convinced that pre-marital sex is sinful then you either need to convince yourselves otherwise or just not participate in that intimacy.

As Witch points out that isn't always possible.  Sometimes desire is like a team of Clydesdales it has more pull in a given direction than you have the strength to resist.  If you believe that you need to resist then you need to pay closer attention to what it is that fans the flames of passion.  If it is being alone together, then don't be alone together.  If it is holding hands, then don't hold hands.

Avoiding those passion rousing activities will not be fun or easy.  That passion is calling you toward intimacy which is exactly what it is supposed to be doing.  It isn't wrong.  Passion doesn't care much about timing which is terribly inconvenient for the parts of our person that do care about timing.

So, I wish you the best of luck as you wrestle with your feelings.  I hope that you find a way to master them, whatever way you interpret that to mean.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi More-than-a-Sparrow,

There are good answers to your question - but asking it on Wonder Cafe is like asking a crocodile the shortest distance across a river.

Saul thinks there are no "true" Christians here because many don't agree with his ultra-fundamentalist position. That means that this place doesn't afford him the proper recognition of his magnificent righteousness that he so richly deserves lol

Come on in, the water's fine - you can ride on my back. And besides, people who say they waited are just a bunch of liars.

Sparrow - I didn't answer until I read your post on social.  Until then I didn't know how old you and your boyfriend are, and that would definitely affect my answer.  If you were fifteen and asking this question I would definitely say that you should be waiting - waiting until you are a bit more mature to handle an adult decision.  And if the waiting was too difficult you would be advised to avoid places and situations where you are alone together for any long period of time.  Double date or invite friends along.  Watch TV with your family.  Go for walks in public places.  If you were even younger I would advise cooling the whole idea of dating and just be friends not only with each other but with others as well.

But you are on the verge of adulthood.  You could still try these tactics if you still want to wait.  But you will know when you are ready for a real and deep commitment to each other.  If you both know for certain that this is a life-long commitment, and you are equally certain that you don't approve of sex before marriage, why put off marriage.   Perhaps within the next six months or a year you and your boyfriend will be ready for a quiet little marriage,  in the presence of your families, blessed by your church.     Or you may be ready to have a sexual relationship before marriage.  The really important thing is to respect each other and make sure you are on the same page about this.

Did you wait SNP?

Not that we'd believe you anyways.

Jesus had a few things to say about Pharisees like you in Luke 18

Some people do wait.  And in some cultures single people are closely chaperoned. But check out some geneologies. 

A couple was checking out his family tree, while visiting his Mom.  When were you married, he asked and filled it in.  Then he started on the birthday for himself and his siblings.  Then he went back to the first question, when were you married?  When was my oldest sister married?  There is something wrong here?  You must have been married in 19-- if Janie was born in 19-- and Phil in 19--.    No, his Mom was sure she had the dates right.  Suddenly his wife spoke up:  "Shut up Dan.  Give it a rest."  Yes, there were hurried weddings, and six month babies (weighing a good 7.5 lbs.) back in our parents and grandparents generations.  (not with my parents of course)

And always questions like, Why does my oldest siblings birthcertificate have Mom's maiden name?  Did they register them differently back then?     And when you do the math you will find that the baby of the family's birthdate shows that he was born when his 'mother' was 55, but he had a sister 16 years older than he was. 

Interesting stuff in doing geneology!

Human nature hasn't changed.  And not everyone waits for marriage, especially if they put off marriage much beyond the mid to late teens.  Now-a-days people seem to be much more honest about it.

There was a reason they used to marry the kids off at 14, back two or three generations ago.

Our ancestors wer smart enough to realize that if you insisted on going against the most powerful drive God put in our bodies, the only way to make sure kids waited for marriage to have sex, was to make sure marriage happened before the drive kicked in full force.

Nowadays we no longer arrange our kids marriages, and no longer allow them to marry as soon as puberty sets in, but we still expect them to behave as if we did. Thus we set them up for failure, and the crushing burden of guilt we heap on top of that. Guilt God never intended them to feel, if we are to go by the Bible anyways.

I am glad you are in a committed relationship and that you are in love.

You mention 4 years, so I guess you have both decided to wait until you are finished university to get married.

While I would also wish my kids to do that , I guess that is something to discuss.  Why are you waiting for that?

AS to should you live together or have sex before marriage.  If this is an important part of your faith , then I guess you need to work out how to follow it.  I would suggest never being alone.  Always date with friends.  ALways watch tv with parents, siblings,.  If you are not alone, you wont' be too tempted.

However, I do think you will lose alot of intimacy in your relationship to be chaperoned everywhere, but many cultures do it so you can too.

I remember the scene from the Godfather ( rent it) where the couple are walking down the road and being trailed by several elderly ladies who were the chaperones.

My sister had a nice rec room in their house for the kids to have friends over.  From the time they were little she would periodically come down the stairs:  who wants popscycles; who wants a cookie.  It was only natural to continue this as they reached their teens.  They never knew when Mom would walk in with baked goods, chips, pop,  hot dogs, or a suggestion that they might want to come up to join the family for a pizza.  I think she timed her entrance for when things got a bit too quiet.

Having someone like that along might help - as would a pesty little brother who always wants to hang out with you.

I heard a great line the other day: "Abstinence is to safe sex as 'hold it in' is to potty training".  I realize you're attempting to practice "no sex" instead of "safe sex", but the same problem applies.  If you're mature, sexually excited and in a committed relationship...that's the point where not having sex makes less sense than the alternative.  Why postpone what you both crave, when there is no issue of STDs or immaturity or non-committal?  It's natural, it's fun, you learn more about your partner, and you get better with practice.

In other words, get a room and get it over with.

Witch, you said I've been lied to because "people don't wait"...

I know quite a few people who have waited/are waiting.

Adultery is defined as sex outside of marriage. When a married man has an affair with an unmarried woman - who is sinning? Is it just the man? No - it takes two to tango.

I spent an entire summer telling junior high girls about 1 Corinthians 6 and 7.

"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his own body, he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that you are a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have recieved from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your body."

I am astounded at how many people on here are digging around for loopholes of what you are and aren't supposed to follow in the bible. God designed sex for two people to enjoy and appreciate eachother - within the terms of their marriage.

Say we think that we're "ready" and we've been dating a few more months, or even a couple years - so we decide not to wait. What if fate intervened and somehow it didn't work out? Then after you meet someone who is truly worth it - and have to explain to them that a part of you is already taken by someone else. You can't take back your virginity. When I give myself to someone, it will be ALL of me, and the only person I'll be willing to do that with is my future husband.

Thanks for the imput either way.

Actually you know quite a few people who claimed to have waited. That's not quite the same thing.

Consider this. Back about thirty years ago, and stretching back from there a couple of decades, there as a common medical procedure that almost all young women about to be married in North America went through; hymen stretching. The idea was that the doctor would carry out the procedure to stretch the hymen of the betrothed virgin, making the "first time" much less painful. The procedure was removed as a recommended procedure by the American and Canadian medical association because it was everntually termed an unnecessary medical procedure. THe reason? Doctors were reporting that practically no one that came to get the procedure had an intact hymen still. In essence the procedure was being used by these young women much as the goat blood on the hidden sponge was being used by women in Biblical days, to hide the fact that they practically every young woman being married was no longer a virgin.

Independant polls have consistently shown that those teens who advocate "abstinence only" end up with higher rates of STDs and pregnancies. Other polls have shown that few, if any people, when anonymity is assured, will deny having had sex before marriage.

I recall a woman from the church I attended back when I was a Christian, who is now a crusader for abstinence, and enjoys quite a good living from the talk show circuit and high school invites. She, of course, claims that she waited, and is much better off for having waited to give herself only to her husband. Trouble is I know for certain, that she was not a virgin when she was married... and unless she'd had her hymen stretched for me, I was also not her first.

Yet she claims... just like the people you know claim...

I suspect she may even have convinced herself. Just as my dear sister has convinced herself that her husband was her first. She just discarded the meory of the young lad and the root cellar, and the brother who accidently walked in on them. 

Noooooo.......

Adultery is having sex with someone when you are married to someone else. The word means exactly that. Adultery cannot be committed without there being a marriage.

It's too bad that having fallen into the non-biblical control trap used by the preisthood to ensure the sheep are properly corralled. It's too bad you passed on that trap to those girls you mentioned.

The details of the fact that the Bible does not forbid sex before marriage, and that the translation of the word "fornication" is faulty at best, is well covered in the following thread by Rev John, and by myself. I suggest you read both treatises through and pay close attention to the Biblical references and to the examples given in Hebrew and Greek. My essay is near the bottom of page 2.

http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/relationships/intercourse-marriage?p...

Considering that born-again Christians have as many divorces as non-Christians, the chances are you are going to have to deal with that anyways. Virginity is only rated as important in the Bible when it comes to property laws. In real life, it's only people who accept the fabrication that seem to feel the guilt. Sex is an important part of marriage, and sexual incompatibility is one of the leading causes of divorce. To think that we subject our children to the trap of taking a gamble of that compatibility, to find out only after the deal is done, seems a little barbaric. When one considers that the Jews, whose scriptures you use to detail the supposed Old testament strictures, don't seem to believe that sex before marriage is a sin, why would we create sin where none exists?

There are all kinds of sex that don't involve intercourse, that is how most people 'wait'.  Then there is a question of what is marriage?  I was doing some research into my mother's geneology.  She grew up in an outport in Newfoundland.  I came across an account of a visit from the bishop.  He was the only clergy who visited the village and did so every 8-10 years.  While he was there he consecrated a graveyard and performed mass for the men, but not one marriage.  We've decided that we need a minister and a marriage licence to be married, not God.

First, I can't help but slightly correct Witch here, and point out that atheists and agnostics have a lower divorce rate than Christians, and that "born again" Christians actually have a higher divorce rate than other Christians.  (Source - ReligiousTolerance.org)

Other than those boring statistics, I completely agree with what he wrote.  If you think your future husband would reject you unless you gave yourself to him in your original packaging, then perhaps what your future husband wants is not a wife, but a pack of hockey cards.  I don't think of my wife as property, and I think any guy who approaches a relationship like that is a complete loser, and quite likely a liar as well, as we know just how many "technical virgins" there really are out there.

Do you pray to God with that mouth?

Sparrow - I hope that you are keeping an open mind.   I thought that you were looking for some honest advice.  Most people here have responded politely with what they believe.  Some have questioned your decision to wait.  Others have come up with stratiges for avoiding temptation since you believe premarital sex is not for you.  One of these strategies is early marriage - others offer advice on avoiding circumstances and asking your friends or family to help by spending time with you in a group.  Some have upheld your decision to wait without offering any suggestions of how to manage it.  Most have been honest opinions.

No, adultery does not mean pre-marital sex.  Adultry means the one or both of the participants is married to someone else.  It has to do with property rights.  The female is considered property of the male.  Commiting adultery with he is infringing on someone else's rights.  The commandment not to commit adultery is closely related to the commandment against coveting anything that is your neighbours - not his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbours including his wife or daughter. 

Your question was about struggling with waiting.  You have received good advice, including the question 'why wait?' 

That's wonderful. Now keep in mind that "a golden-hearted boy" will not pressure you for sex. Neither will you pressure him if you are indeed "golden-hearted."

How refreshing to hear that, especially these days. As one who believes it's best to wait until marriage, indeed as one who waited, it's delightful to hear your dedication to doing same.

Yes, you have desires. God gave you those desires to be satisfied in marriage. And he gave you another gift too, the ability to subdue those desires in order to serve him until you're ready to be wed.

The best way is to bury the God-Word in your heart so that you draw from its cooling waters in times when you're burning with passion. Memorize scriptures which tell it clear: sex before marriage, fornication, is a sin. We Christ-followers must do our best to avoid temptation and live victorious lives in Jesus Christ. Bring these scriptures to mind in dangerous times so that you will stay faithful to God. Remember that your relationship with God is more important than any other relationship, including that which you share with your boyfriend.

Of course there are also some practical tips. Don't spend too much time alone is a very good one. Avoid stimulating tv, movies and music is another.

Here is a resource you may find valuable: http://www.4parents.gov/teenchat_2008.html

Finally I'd like to share with you some wisdom from a book I have called "Marriable" by Hayley DiMarco and Michael DiMarco...

"If you give too much physically, the result is just like being too emotionally vulnerable too soon -- you have opened yourself up to experience all kinds of hurt, danger, and regret if the relationship ends. Giving too much of yourself before you have his undying commitment (i.e. marriage) is like giving a loan to someone who never intends to pay you back."

sock puppets have opinions on sex?? Who'd a thunk it?

Hi Sparrow.

lol - quite the range of responses you've gotten.

Since your question is "How do I avoid this?", and yet your description of the situation includes noting that you and your significant other continually end up in "compromising" situations, my suggestion is that you start by honestly asking yourself if you do indeed want to "avoid" it.

Meditate on it, pray on it, do whatever makes the most sense to you - but don't ask others, or God, to help you "avoid" anything. Ask instead for clarity in understanding what you want. Then act accordingly, based on both your immediate feelings and a clear vision of the potential long term consequences.

David

now witch.

you know that besh has stated that his faith has nothing to do with his day-to-day conduct. I think he keeps God in a little box so as not to be distracted by such silly concepts as civil discussion.

Sparrow.

I must echo much of what has been said here.  You have received some good advice.  When I was about your age (early univ) I dated a guy very seriously for several years.  We never had sex which was considered unheard of at the time and among our group of friends (and like you, we met at a church youth group).  For us, it seemed to be the right decision at the time.  Was it challenging at times.  Oh yeah.  We certainly wanted to at times, but didn't. 

Interestingly we didn't particularly avoid compromising situations, though we talked about it.  I would even sleep over at this place (yes, in his bed) from time to time and no sex happened.  We certainly danced around the fine line, but at that time our commitment to our decision to avoid sex was quite firm.  I think in the end that may be all you need.

Like RevJohn's advice, I too felt that sex is best reserved for a committed, adult relationship.  Like RevJohn that relationship, for me, happened before a legal ceremony and we acted accordingly. 

Now here's where it might get interesting.  Looking back as a 40 year old, liberal Christian I actually slighly regret not sleeping with my early love.  I loved him dearly and sex, (safe sex of course) I think would have been very appropriate given our relationship.  I still love him in a unique sort of way and we remain friends to this day. His wife is a friend and our kids play together.  He recently attended a social event here at our home with his wife and kids.  All are aware of our past love and our cherished friendship and our current partners are not threatened by either (which speaks to the strength of our respective marriages I believe). I do wonder if our current friendship works because we avoided sex as young adults...who knows.

My personal belief is that if a man will feel that you are giving less to him because you do not offer your virginity then you need to keep looking.  If you feel that way then that is different. 

My husband and I had a very frank conversation about sex when it was clear that our relationship was becoming very serious. The conversation happened fully clothed over coffee to ensure that we were clear about our thoughts and not caught up in the heat of the moment.  For us, it was clear that we believed this relationship was "it"  and that sex, at the right moment, would be appropriate.  We talked through issues of birth control and other important "stuff" that needed to be explored and shared. When the moment was right we acted accordingly and I believe this whole scenario was a good thing in our relationship.  We were confident in our decision and because we had talked about the logistics (so to speak) when the moment was right we could fully enjoy the moment.  I have never regretted our decision and I do believe that our decision "fits" with my liberal, Christian faith.  I believe our relationship honours each other and God (then and now).

Ultimately you are an adult.  Or at least you should be if you are seriously contemplating sex.  You are fully able to make decisions about your faith, your body and your boundaries.  You have a voice and can clearly say "no", or "yes". Have sex (or not) because it honours your relationship and your commitment, not because you can't establish or enforce boundaries. My only advice would be, if you decide to have sex, be safe, and be confident and secure in your decision.

This ended up getting a lot of replies - some quite helpful, some not so much, but it's interesting to see how people feel on the subject.

I'd like to point out that while I appreciate a healthy dose of statistics every now and again, they don't really sway my beliefs or opinions on marriage. Divorce happens just as often as every other mistake - and so do healthy, long-lasting marriages. When we look at negative stats, we need to keep in mind the other portion. Maybe I just happen to live in a super-duper community - but there are a lot of admirable examples in my life that I would prefer to believe aren't claiming falsely.

Also I'm pretty sure than encouraging young girls with low self esteems to honor God by saving themselves for a guy that will treat them with respect and decency, instead of allowing them to be pressured into sexual advances by jerky teenage boys, is far from luring them into a "non-biblical control trap".

I may sound ungrateful for all the advice that's been piled onto this thread - quite the opposite, a lot of it is super encouraging. Don't take me as narrow-minded or anything - I'm just sensing a lot of negativity on the subject as well.

I would like to remind everyone that this person I'm in a relationship with is NOT pressuring me into anything, nor am I pressuring him. The struggle/want/boundary between us is pretty equal, which is why I began this with my initial question of how to overcome it with spiritual closeness instead of physical closeness.

An observation on why there is so much argument when this topic comes up: reading through the various posts it seems to me that there is a distinct view being presented, although it hasn't ever been stated outright, that pressuring people to NOT have sex before marriage and teaching them to feel guilty if they do is at least as damaging as being pressured to have unwanted sex.

I may be wrong but there seems to be a degree of frustration on the part of some posters that everyone doesn't see things that way.

 Hey Sparrow,

I've had a really long day and need to get some sleep and I'd like to think about my response before responding to your question.

I am waiting, am engaged (coming up on 1 yr of being engaged) and am living with my fiance.

I'll respond in the next few days.

Just wanted to say that if you feel that waiting is the right decision for you, then you have my support!  It's not the easiest decision to stick to!

Dead on the money Rowan.

If you want to save yourself for marriage, great. More power to you.

The problem is that it's not really a choice when you've been guilted, pressured, misinformed, and condemned into thinking that's the only right way, or even the Biblical way.

The amount of guilt and frustration our puritanical western society has put on to kids over this subject is horrendous. It's a wonder any of them grow up to be sexually well adjusted.

Statistically very few do wait. By high school graduation only about 12-15% of people are still virgins. By marriage we're in the single digits. That is not an argument for or against having sex before marriage, my point is chances are the majority of those who say they waited is in all likelyhood much larger than the number who actually do wait.

Interesting theory. I had always heard that the main reason people married young was due to a much shorter life expectancy. If you were likely to be dead at 40, and no promise of getting much past 30, you needed to start having kids early in order for you to stick around long enough to do any proper raising of them.

That is so funny. When my mom and dad were dating they often had to babysit my Aunt Doreen at the same time and she would have been little. I think she was barely in grade school when I was born.

Sparrow I'm going to try and get back to your original question. During the period of time that I believed it was important/morally imperative, to wait (a belief I have long since left behind as Biblically unsound) I basically just enjoyed second and then third base a lot. That was good for me. If I had to do it over agian I would not have stayed a virgin as long as I did, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with how things went. I'm very glad that I spent a good deal of time enjoying each plateau before I moved on to the next. I've never thought much of the "zero to sixty" approach to sex, where you have your first kiss one week and a month later you have no cherries left. I've always thought that a person is kind of cheating themself that way. Anyway I don't know if this helps you, but it was my path.

Sparrow, I've been reading this thread from the beginning.  Frankly, I haven't seen one post that would contradict the idea of "encouraging young girls with low self esteems to honor God by saving themselves for a guy that will treat them with respect and decency, instead of allowing them to be pressured into sexual advances by jerky teenage boys"   (oh, I forgot, Chansen would leave God out of the equation). 

I didn't think that this thread was about date rape, or exploitation of young girls, or irresponsible jerky teenage boys.  I thought it was about mature (if young) adults who are in a loving, respectful relationship mutually deciding what is best for them and how to best follow the path they have chosen.    And that is the advice you have been getting.

Just concentrate on your emotional intimacy and having fun together, that alone should keep you busy.

You have discovered that you desire each other physically and that's good to know isn't it? If you and your boyfriend have truly committed yourselves to waiting, then it's probably best to avoid the situations that will keep testing you.

I'm thinking you've already made up your minds to wait and you just want support for your own decision.

Trust in that.

Hi again,

if what you are trying to avoid, or trying to decide to avaoid is intercourse, then there are options.

Eliminate intercourse and you still have groping, oral sex, anal sex,.........  I imagine that many people who "wait" infact do some other aspects of sexual intimacy and just avoid intercourse.

I don't think any is saying waiting is wrong.  I think they are saying that it is quite uncommon but to go for it.

Many of us would simply disagree that the bible tells you to wait.  what we now think of a marriage is not what biblical folks had.  So it is hard to relate the two.

I wish you well on your journey with this boy.  DOnt' make the journey about sex though.  DOn't marry because you want sex.  Perhaps you may find as others have that when you take the sexual tension away, the relationship doesn't have legs. 

Avoid being alone with your boyfriend for 5 hours straight and making out for three of those hours.  Then you usually end up spending the night.   It is called being drunk with passion and that is more intoxicating than alcohol.

I know I sound like stick in the mud but high school is too early.  It is too early to have to deal with a pregnancy and having sex makes the relationship more big and important over night.  It is a lot to deal with.  You need to finish school and College.  Birth control is not 100% or 95% especially when you are not good at putting condoms on.  That takes practice.  Having to deal with a pregnancy either in termination of the pregnancy, giving the child up for adoption, getting married early, or raising the baby alone are the consequences and hard for a person in their 20's or 30's let alone a teenager.

You are still figuring out who you are.  Your life needs to be about you not the two of you or the three of you.   Sex takes the relationship up a level or two instantly and that makes the relationship harder to break off if it needs to be broken off.  Most people will leave a piece of their heart with the people they have slept with and that changes people.  Its not easy to leave a piece of your heart with someone and move on.

These are all things that someone in high school should not need to worry about.  Sex complicates life.  It is also wonderful and the songs that compare it to going to heaven are accurate.  In some cases the negatives could outweigh the positives.  The negatives are VERY negative when you go there.

I'll try to stick with the original question and avoid some of the other arguing that's been on here.  I'll admit I also didn't read every single post up to now, but skimmed it and I don't think this recommendation has been made yet.

The biggest thing to me is that you're respecting the lines that you've drawn.  Whatever lines you draw, which might be stuff like not being alone for more than a couple hours, or alone on a bed, or touching certain places... whatever it is for you and there are some good recommendations here... make sure they are clearly laid out and agreed upon.  No shame between the two of you talking about it.  If they are truly what both of you want, I firmly believe that although you will still desire to cross those lines in the moment, you won't want to because you don't want to violate that trust with each other.

That still has a pretty big loophole which is where I would add one more piece of advice: never change your boundaries in the heat of the moment.  In that heat of the moment, you might both agree its fine, but you aren't exactly thinking clearly.  That is when you find yourself doing things you regret.  Maybe the next day you'll both be able to sit down, in a less passionate situation, and say that you think you're ready for the next step, and maybe you won't.  You might find yourself fuzzing the line of what constitutes being out of the moment enough, so maybe even set a time limit - something like no changing boundaries within a couple hours either before or after any physical intimacy. 

Communication with your boyfriend and vulnerability with each other talking about it are key.

She speaks wisdom. Her words are worth contemplating. Whatever you do in any sexual relationship (even after high school), you must be mindful of the impact that having or not having sex with that person will have on you and on the relationship.

Mendalla

Sparrow. I applaud your decision to wait. In this culture, people are seen as weird religious fanatics when they decide to wait for marriage before having sex. Culture places alot of pressure on people when it comes to sex. Watch T.V., read one of many magazines, look in shopping malls and you can seen the influence culture has. If you have decided to wait for marriage before you have sex then it will not matter what anybody else says or what culture says is cool. The decision you make is between you and God and nobody else.

CF:  It depends on one's reasons for waiting.  "It's a sin not to" is actually one of the more respectable reasons, imo.  It's the semi-philosophical rationalizations that insult everyone who hasn't waited, that earn my derision.

And Beshpin, you missed CF's point.  But that was planned, right?

Ha ha Beshpin.

It's partially because I believe it's a sin, and partially because I believe that it will make the relationship stronger between us, and partially because I believe it will help us stay focused on God, and partially because I don't think I will ever trust anyone to see 100% of me unless they were indeed my legitimate husband.

I could probably think of a few more reasons but it's late.

Thanks for all your answers guys :)

If you have to think of the reasons - if they don't come readily to mind - then that indicates that they they aren't likely your actual motivational reasons.  That's a principle that applies to most contexts, not just this one.

That is so true. In the heat of the moment is the worst imaginable time to start to wing it. Decide in advance. Reserve for yourself the right to change your mind, but only do so when you can calmly and rationally do so, not when hormones are raging.

 If you can distinguish between your hormones and your heart. Always listen to your heart, if it's confusing then don't do it. If it's easy and your heart says yes..well carry on. Unless of course your Witch..when he tries to listen to his heart all he hears is the sound of a creaking door opening.

What you choose to do is yours to decide.  What I find odd is that the title of this thread is

struggling with waiting

That of course implies that while you are waiting you are not totally happy with it.

SO perhaps you need to think that you are waiting "now"  that this isn't the right time for sex.  With this guy or any other but give your self and your mind the permission to change that decision as you get older

I kind of agree with you here (well except for the creaking part, I actually oil my heart regularly), except that I would say use your head before your hormones.

My grandfather used to tell me that when making life decisions you should use your body the way it was made. Use your head to think, and use your heart to pump blood.

Hey Sparrow,

There's lots of good advice here already.  Ryan covered some of what I was planning on adding.  If you have set specific boundaries it's much easier to stick to them than if you just have a vague notion of what you are and aren't waiting for.

Remember the reason as to why you are waiting, if it is really important to you it helps with the willpower.  Also, enjoy the intimacy you do have now!  There's no need to rush things and spending time talking and cuddling or the occasional suggestive look or just being silly together help build the relationship for when you do want to take things further!

 i don't have any suggestions for you but many people have said there's no point in waiting....i say...WAIT!  

i used to be like you, waiting to save it for marriage.  unfortunately, i wasn't as strong in my belief as i thought and we did it.  here are my pros and cons...again, this only applies to me so everyone else reading this, feel free to comment on it, it's not a guide book...it's just my personal experience and thoughts behind it.

pros:

- it's a whole new experience.  it feels AMAZING!

- it'll bring you a lot ...a lot closer to each other than just watching tv...or any other fooling around/foreplay.

- the guys tends to open up a lot more after sex.

- its very relaxing.

- i'm sure there are more pros...which i can't think of right now cuz i'm trying to promote to you to WAIT lol

cons:

- you'll get very attached to him.  when i was having a fight with my ex, one of the stupid reason why it was so hard for me to let go was because i lost my virginity to him.  this goes for a lot of women...they become much more attached and you'll be broken hearted so much more IF he leaves you.

- if you did break-up, now you have something to compare.  my ex was AMAZING!  then again, i've only been with one person...but what if the next person sucks?  lol...now you're stuck with comparing lol.

- if you did break-up, you'll crave the feeling...trust me.  "once you pop, you can't stop"...literally!  then it becomes a cycle...atleast for some people.  they make poor choices cuz of sex-related issues.

- you can get pregnant and if you're not ready for a kid...abortion is not a healthy solution.  pills..it'll most likely make you fat.

well anyways, i wish i waited.  there's nothing wrong if you decided to go on with it later...but i support you and believe that sex is definitely worth waiting for until after marriage.  actually, not a lot of guys will admit this, but i have a couple of guys best friends who admits that now, they actually do wish they've waited as well.  a couple of them started sleeping around at about 13, while one was a late bloomer, in his late 20s...same idea.  so ya, yes its good...so good i'd suggest you share it to your future hubby.

Congratulations More than a Sparrow. The one thing you have found ( I think) is a God centred relationship. I have never had one of those and I am 45.  I planned to wait until I got married but I never found the right person. Actually I don't think I had any role models  or anyone else in my life to help me with that. I was always told what not to do but nev r what to do. And my mom talked the talk but walked a horribley crooked line.

  Also I have not had anyone in my life who had the God centred relationship that I desire.  At a time of great grief and loneliness in my life I decided that sex would fill that hole..and a boyfriend.. well it didn't work. It left me feeling sadder than I was before. I am still working on finding a God centred realtionship. Aslo I fear that there won't be any man who would wait until after marriage to have sex despite already having sex before. ( or not.. but with a woman of my age.)

    Good

 Then again..maybe for you and your boyfriend.. marraige is the path for you now. I am not sure why you said you have to wait 4 years ??  Do you have other plans ? Well maybe God has another plan for you and your boyfriend... or the timing if different. My timing sure is different. I have never had kids and feel I am far past the time. Maybe I am meant to be a step mom.

 The church of my family of origin never had a youth group. It hasn't had much of a Sunday school for years. It's membership is down to 15 people. They tried to get the minister out but it hasn't worked. It is a sick church.

Also in my opinion my mom has been having an emotional affrair with the minister for years and years. Even when my dad was alive. ( They didn't go to church together anymore) oh an she's had numerous others too.  I have drawn the same type of people into my life. I need to pray why I feel sex is such a taboo subject in church ? My mom, friends and relatives have had lots of very sick relationships. she's 80 and is in her current abusive relationship. Be thankful you found the questions and an outlet before then.

 I am ordering a book online called " Every Young Woman's Battle". I googled it and it sounds good. I never got the guidance I needed as a young girl.. so again.. I am back to being a teenager.. right where you are. I pray I can find someone in church or elsewhere who can be a guide for me. 

Last week a gentleman asked me if I was single. It frightened me. I am so used to married men or men who just want sex asking me. Then he said " Just in case someone asks. " I loed that.. no  one has ever asked that before !! I felt great then. Nice to know I have someone looking out for me. Hey.. maybe God is sending a "father liek figure my way" Oh..and school and work and money and meeting rock stars.. never filled that hole in me .. only God can..and I trust he will.