Most of those things can be avoided with proper use of contraceptives and common sense. I am not married but I have had sex and I think it was the right thing for me to do. I care deeply about the man I was with and I know he cares deeply for me. But instead of being over taken by "impluses" we were smart and used contraceptives. That was how we were raised and what we discussed before we started haveing a sexual realtionship. There will always be a part of me that wished I had waited for the one, but I do not regret my choice. Sex is a healthy normal act that expresses love and affection between two people and those who do not wait for marriage should not be judged. Nor should people get married because the sex is great. There must be a healthy balance for a realtionship to work and I think that is what is missing in a lot of realtionships.

I guess you now know why nobody wants to respond to this question...Scarry topic! Has dogged Mankind since Venus showed up on planet Earth, Mars has never been the same since. LOL:) Just playing with ya...now that i think about it though, it's probably true...but, then again how would 'lil 'ol me know, I wasn't there. Just trying to play good 'ol Sunday DAD now that "MILF-Lady" has the house, the kids, the Dog, the garbage duty, my lawnmower (that was cruel---the Judge gave her my lawnmower! Can you believe that!) She even got awarded custody of my boy-friend...that's just not fair. He was a pretty good buddy too...boy, I'm going to miss playing Playstation with him...HEY! I just realized she got my video game! What a bummer...oh well, I hope P3 lives up to the billing. Wait lemme think here for a sec, support payment or P3? Hmmm...I sure hope they have internet in the Carribean or at least our local jailhouse after McGintney (is that how his name is spelt? Aaa, who cares, he lies anyway---by the way, isn't that still a "sin") is done with all us "dead-beat" dads, ergo Fathers. By the way, I forgot your question? Something tells me though, you might be half right. Just never got the manual after the crucifiction er, cerimoney (there goes my spelling again)...LOL:) Gotta just keep smilin'!

Now that I just re-read your question and looked at my response, I'm beginning to understand why both Women and Men are "converting" themselves to the same sex unions after making the mistakes in your question. The women can know revert back to their childhood passion of playing with bigger barbies in their own bigger homes with less "stress" and the men don't have to worry about their new partner taking half of what they own away cause both partners don't have anything left to take! Other than, one question may still dog the future existing of the "holey" ?trimony: Who wears the "pants" in the family? Hmmm...to be continued, I guess. I wonder what Jesus & Mary would think of this question? I guess they never found out---must have been too many lawyers and social service paperwork back then as well...may the force be with us all from here on in!

"The women can know revert back to their childhood passion of playing with bigger barbies in their own bigger homes with less "stress" and the men don't have to worry about their new partner taking half of what they own away cause both partners don't have anything left to take!"

Explain to me your logic behind saying that two gay men don't have anything left to take. Homosexual men are obviously a minority when compared to heterosexual men but they are neither more or less likely to be successful in life. Not to mention homosexual partners who are financially tangled with eachother have even more to worry about in case of a split as there are MUCH less legal options available for them to regain lost assets and fair treatment in comparison to heterosexual couples.

As for your take on lesbians, women who wish to be in a relationship with another woman almost always feel more towards other females then the simple emote of objectifying their partner, which you imply when referring to females as "barbies".

And now heading on to homosexuals in general, what makes you think that homosexual relationships of any kind - be it casual, dating, monogamous, or whatever else you want to name, are any less stressful then heterosexual relationships? It is the same principle, two different human beings trying to connect in an intimate way.

Thanks to Karen09 and Gracious for keeping this discussion on track :)

I agree with Karen09 that we do live in an age where there are options to keep our bodies safe from both unplanned pregnancies as well as sexually transmitted diseases. This education has allowed us to make decisions that enable us to make wise decisions about our bodies.

Having said that, I am someone who has only had one sexual partner, and he is my husband. I am thankful of the choice I made to wait for the 'right one'.

I'll be honest, we didn't wait until our wedding night to have sex, choosing instead to share our beautiful moment in our own bed rather than in some hotel. It was a few months before we tied the knot, and I have no regrets. Both him and I were virgins and are committed to a monogamous relationship.

I personally believe that sex is connected to the deepest part of a person, so to only view it as a physical act is a bit degrading. The mind, emotions and body are all interconnected, especially during sex, which is something that isn't always discussed but I feel is an important thing to consider regardless of when you decide to have sex.

The best advice I have ever received was to "find yourself before you find anyone else". If you have a healthy respect for yourself and understand what is important to you, what direction you want to take in life, etc, you will have a solid foundation to stand on within all relationships. You will also be less likely to give too much of yourself away to people who are not capable of the respect and dignity you deserve.

Speaking from experience, sex is amazing in the context of a healthy, giving marriage with a person who is equally compatible to you and dedicated to the relationship. I don't have experience in other forms of relationships, such as common-law or same-sex relationships, but I believe the same principle applies.

Why wait until marriage? Sex is ordered to two inseparable ends: the bonding of two souls and the begetting of new life. In the absense of contraception, sex is the unreserved gift of self to your spouse. The problem with contraception is that it amounts to a "NO". Where one or both spouses say to the other, "I do not give myself to you", or "I do not accept all you have to give." The post-modern contraceptive mentality expects couples to sterilize their sex lives and carry on as if nothing has changed. This is why sex is only licit when undertaken by married men and women who have already promissed themselves to each other in marriage.

Ps. When the Pill first came out, all Christian churches, including the UC denounced it for this exact reason.

Ps. Here are some related questions some may wish to persue in another forum: Is contraceptive heterosexual sex equivalent to homosexual sex? Or: Is sex somehow better or more fulfilling when you are both anxiously trying to have a baby?

Although I do agree with the idea of sex in marriage without contraception being the most pure sexual experience, there are other issues at play that must be considered. Contraception, when used both in and out of marriage is not only used to prevent "inconvenient" pregnancies, it is used to take necessary responsibility for the world we live in and for future generations.

We are no longer living in a world where everyone can have as many children as possible, to be 'fruitful and multiply', so to speak. The planet is becoming exponentially overpopulated, and as in the case of China, dire measures were needed to prevent serious ecological consequences. The concern then becomes for the earths future sustainability.

Also, there is a responsibility we owe to any children we bring into this world. While in theory it would be beautiful to bring as many children into a loving home as possible, there are a lot of people who just cannot financially afford to raise more than a few children, if any at all. Finances aside, what of the individuals who suffer from mental or physical disabilities where it advised against procreating? Is sex any less symbolic, climatic or 'whole' for these people who make decisions that are responsible? I don't think so. Whether sex is protected or not, two people who come together in intimacy combined with commitment and respect experience sex to it's fullest capacity.

Dear Ugly Duckling, . I do not understand how you can say that sex without contraceptives is the "most pure" while at the same time claiming that having "protected sex" is just as good. I also do not see how your points about overpopulation and families having an irresponsible number of children is resonable justification to trod down the road that denies one of the primary purposes of married conjugal love - the life giving purpose where we act as co-creators with God. Pretty serious deletion when natural family planning is enjoying better success rates than condoms and diaphrams. If you are worried about the environment then you will know that one of our most serious water problems in Canada is the vast amount of bith control chemicals that get flushed down the toilet in urine and are not removed by chlorine or filters. ---But I think the topic is Pre-Marital Sex, so I apologise to readers for the digression.

ps, Europe is wilting under a declining birth rate - its the continent's most pervasive problem

Well, on this topic...

I personally had sex MANY times with the girl I was going to marry and spend the rest of my life with. I mean, we were in love like no one's business. I realize now that i was just a stupid 18 year old. Like most 18 year olds, actually.

So, we, or at least she, didnt feel we had to wait until marriage. I mean, I realize that it is usually the males in the relationships who take it to the next level, but for once, it was ALL her. I realize now that the Bible warned me about my ex-girlfriend. "Pro 7:27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. "

If only I had payed attention....

I had sex with my future wife too. Happily, we've been together for 25 years. There were times when we used contraceptives but we have mostly relied on natural methods to provide reasonable spacing of children. In retrospect, we both think the times we resorted to contraceptives were motivated by unjustified fear. Hind-sight is always 20-20

To answer NoWonder's earlier question: I do NOT think sex is better or more fulfilling when anxiously awaiting a baby. Maybe it is for some who can get pregnant in a few months. But talk to the countless men and women (1 in 6) for whom fertaility is an issue and you'll likely find that sex for them becomes a chore.

Good point, Nestingtree. Anxiety is the big killer of the joy of sexual intimacy. I seems to me that people worried about: getting pregnant, about not getting pregnant, about STD's, about performance or suffered infidelities of the past all weigh heavily on modern sexuality. Making love with your married spouse only should be a major stress reliever - not a source of anxiety. Thanks

I wonder how many people wait until marriage.

well on this topic....

as has probably already been discussed, people want to have sex before marriage because they feel its right. and personally, I think that's okay.

Might I add, if it hasn't already been stated, that with the stress of a wedding-the high anxiety levels, the willing for everything to be perfect, along with tons of pressure-can make it difficult for people to perform if this is their first time.

(just a thought...)

Anyone want to venture an opinion on what 'perform' means? I float this question not entirely knowing what I think. Yet.

roary; "Might I add, if it hasn't already been stated, that with the stress of a wedding-the high anxiety levels, the willing for everything to be perfect, along with tons of pressure-can make it difficult for people to perform if this is their first time."

There are medications available that can take care of the performance problem.

No, sex is fun.

Only you can know what is right for you.

However I would venture to say that this value is less than a century old and likely will be extinct before our generation.

My great aunt who is a religous women in her nineties told me once:

"You would not buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first! You'd be asking for nothing but greif".

That was her repsonse when I asked her if she minded me living with my boyfriend in her house -- I rent from her.

I have been in a relationship with the same man for two and a half years now. When we started dating he was the "big man on campus" and he had all the experience a guy could ever have....until i came around. Me knowing he was like that, still i pursued the relationship..i feel he was sent to me. I told him firmly what i wanted and if he didn't like it then he could find someone else. But he has stuck by my side, Its been two and a half years, haven't had sex and are so amazing with each other because our relationship is not based around that at all. Better yet he is the most amazing man i could dream of and i thank god for him. even though i am so in love with him, we both want to wait until were married because we know we are going to get married one day and we want it to be special and we are both perfectly fine with that

blaming the breakdown of so many marriages on premarital sex is comical. here's an alternative explanation for the breakdown of relationships, an explanation that may confound some fundamentalists: the reality of being HUMAN BEINGS!

If I was to wait for marriage until having sex, I'd be an eternal virgin. I am for love not marriage. Love cannot be bound by marriage and is repressed by it.

I waited until marriage before I had sex with my wife, and we have had a happy, Godly, Christ-centred marriage since. Sex outside of marriage is a sin, and we need to reach out to the youth of this country and let them know that abstinence is the best way to go, and that Christ will forgive those who have sinned.

My first husband was also my first lover. The marriage lasted nearly 20 years. He was a terrible lover and I was sexually used at times. If I had had other lovers before him, I would have realized this much sooner. My current mate of several years is a kind and generous lover. Its like an awakening, for both of us as he was severly sexually repressed in his first marriage. Incidentally, she had been his only lover.

So, from personal experiences, waiting is NOT all its cracked up to be.

true7....every youth? Whether they believe or not?

Do you light your home with electricity or is that the sparking demon from hell which has no place in your home?

You need to evolve!

true7and7pure7:

"I waited until marriage before I had sex with my wife, and we have had a happy, Godly, Christ-centred marriage since."

Suuuuuuuuuuuure you did. ROFLMAO

"Sex outside of marriage is a sin,"

Not according to the Bible it's not. Do you folks just make up sins as you go along?

"and we need to reach out to the youth of this country and let them know that abstinence is the best way to go,"

I'm sure they'll be very receptive ROFLMAO

If there is one thing kids are real good at recognizing, it's hypocrisy. They know the people who are claiming to have waited, and are now preaching abstinence, are the same people who were doing the nasty in their parents car in the church parking lot, back 30 years ago.

"and that Christ will forgive those who have sinned."

Including the sin of false witness, arrogance, and preaching a false gospel?

I'm planning to wait. I believe that God made sex for marriage and to me, sex is such a powerful form of intimacy and expression of love that it needs to be confined to marriage.

That's the way I see it, at least.

The proponents of the oldest profession in the world may well disagree with the intimacy and love part!

"Okay, I'll come back to your hotel... but we have to get married first."

Witch said, "Including the sin of false witness, arrogance, and preaching a false gospel?"

Yes, even those are forgiven (once confessed and repented). :-)

Why would one wait to get married to have sex? Marriage is a human institution implemented not so long ago in terms of human history. Truth to tell, I don't think God has anything to do with marriage. Humans forcibly involved God in the institution of marriage, and I bet God's not too keen on being dragged into it.

Sex is good if those involved are mature and healthy. It's not good if participants are doing it for all the wrong reasons. I would say instead of waiting until married, one should wait until one's mature in both mind and body.

In the past, people were married at 13, and had sex. In most cultures in which this took place, only women were young. Men were old. So I wonder who came up with "wait until marriage" crap? Not young girls who were married off by their fathers to older men...

God performed the first marriage in the Garden of Eden. I think He wants plenty to do with it.

I don't remember anything that in any way resembles marriage in the scripture. Near as I can tell, Adam and Eve were shacked up.

Oh. But doesn't the Bible refer to Eve as Adam's "wife"? I figured that would have to mean they got married somewhere along the way.

Interesting comment. Does it simply mean that Eve was the constant, loving, exclusive companion....with benefits.

What does this tell us about marriage and relationships and sex, in the Bible no less????

I applaud your commitment to your values aotn. You seem like an honourable person and I sincerely hope that you meet someone who will value your ideas and your commitment to your values as much as you do.

I personally agree with a previous comment that I believe that sex does not need a marriage certificate (unless that is what the two individuals feel is a requirement), but ideally involves two individuals are in an adult, loving, monogamous, committed, loving relationship.

Ooops, apparently loving is so important I had to type it twice. I think it must be getting close to my bedtime.

Marriage is a commitment to one person in context of there being many candidates. Why in the world would Adam have "married" Eve if there was no one else? Isn't that an oxymoron?

In any case, the scripture was written by people in societies that upheld marriage as a valuable institution, not particularly for sex but for economic and social benefits. That God "married" Adam and Eve tells more about the social values of people at the time of the writing than of God's love for the institution of marriage.

I plan to marry the one I love. The one I love completley and endlessly from the bottom of my heart. And I think that sex, in any way shape or form, is not and never will be more important than love.

However, I am a virgin and plan to stay that way until I am in at least a stable relationship. I won't lie to myself and say I'm saving myself for marriage, then end up having sex before marriage. Because I agree very much with Uglyduck. I'd rather have sex slightly before my wedding night, in my fiancé and I's bed than in some hotel room. It would be more special for me.

hey there, cookienessness... very good name.

welcome to w/c!!

RevMatt said I don't remember anything that in any way resembles marriage in the scripture. Near as I can tell, Adam and Eve were shacked up.

God took Eve and presented her to Adam. In order to create Eve God took a rib from Adam so Adam sacrificed something of himself in order to have Eve. Sounds a little like a wedding ceremony to me.

Remind me never to go to you for open heart surgery Serena ;-)

Witch:

I think it is illegal to perform surgery without a licenst in Canada so I think you are safe. :)

From where I am from there is a large community of Evangelicals. Their youth are adament of waiting until marriage. While this is an honourable goal many of them do marry very young to people they haven't known for very long. This then obviously results in strained and troubled marriages. These troubles could very well lead to extramarital affairs or being trapped in a loveless marriage of resentment.
Being a young person I think sex before marriage in bad in some cases. For example there are many young people who have sex with lots of different people and bring random people home after a night of partying. This I feel is very wrong. Sex is an act for two people very much strongly and deeply in love while yes it is a very special act between a husband and wife, but I do believe if you are in a deep and meaningful relationship with one person who you love with all of your heart and soul, there is nothing wrong with it. Marriage just brings an already strong relationship to a deeper and more spiritual level.
I think the issue is that when some people are just too immature to have sex this is when sex before marriage becomes wrong.

No fun before marriage? Why?

It could be argued that there's other ways to have fun but I'll reiterate what some have already said: things you've listed can be avoided using, yes, common sense; condoms; birth control; getting tested for STDs before engaging in intercourse with someone.

Couples may rush into marriage so the sex can happen. What then? They're married, so they take less precautions. This can still lead to unwanted pregnancy. On top of a rushed marriage, you have two people who realize at the wrong time that maybe they weren't meant to spend their lives together; now you have a divorce and an unborn or young child who must face the social breakdown of feuding parents, a divorce, and being handed back and forth as weekly ransom. Not always the case, no, but it's the other side of the argument, I would say.

What should be happening before marriage AND relationships is kids being properly taught to take these precautions no matter what their marital status is, and to learn how severe te consequences will be not only for them but for a child if such a thing was to happen. "Have your cake and eat it too," just make sure you know what the ingredients were.

There was a lot of garbage written in this blog....I could not endure t. But.. I scrolled to the end and the last entry makes sense. However the first entry is almost 2 years ago and I am sure that guy is not listening now. The entry was not coherrant at best.
Anyway... the world today is an ever changing place. People that think that the old ways should prevail are going to get screamed at. We must embrace new ideas and find solutions that are plausable not close our eyes and pretend that nothing is changing. Is this really so hard?? Is anyone really religious here on this site? I'd like to know. I have many questions.
From what I have read there is a lot of nonsense.

I can understand where some people are coming from who are against sex before marriage (in general, not as a personal choice). I'm not saying I agree with them, but I can understand that they believe it is a sin, so they don't think anyone should engage in sex before marriage.

I don't understand why people are against waiting for marriage though (in the general sense). I can understand that they personally do not want to wait, or even understand waiting, but what do they have against other people's choices? (unless of course, it is someone they are dating!)

Where did you get the idea that anyone is against a person waiting for marriage if that is his personal choice?

I'm still confused as to if it is or is not a sin personally. There are so many different views given and I still haven't seen any real proof (in my opinion) either way.

I'm not sure I've ever encountered anyone who would argue "against" waiting, as in "you need to have have sex before marriage. It's harmful if you don't".

Certainly not in the same manner as those who attempt to use emotional blackmail to shame people into waiting for marriage.

Witch, some people will argue against waiting, to the same extent that others will argue for waiting. They are so against someone's personal choice, and I just don't understand what their issue is.

Humans didn't evolve "waiting"