It does nothing for me and I took my Facebook down the day someone used my wall, rather than email or phone, to ask me if my son wanted to come over for a playdate. Sorry folks, but it's a little too public and impersonal to be used for that kind of communication. I was also irritated to no end by the flood of announcements about what so-and-so had just done on Farmville and spent half my time trying to figure out how to stop crap like that. It did help me reconnect with some folks from high school, but that's the most I can say for it. I certainly wouldn't rely on it for anything beyond that.

Mendalla

First off - hope you're feeling better now Agnieska.  Lots of people in my area have had this nasty stomach bug too - it seems to be a particularly bad one.  Hopefully you and your kids managed through your day - and they escaped the bug!

I do value my privacy, so I'm very selective about who I "friend" on facebook.   Generally it's family, and closer acquaintances from real life & I keep my privacy settings fairly closely set.   That said, I find it's a good way for me to keep track of what's happening with my extended family - neices & nephews, my adult kids, a few old friends who live at a distance. 

I agree - some of the updates are tiresome - it's possible to just indicate you don't want to receive updates from those folks, which I have done with some. 

This year at Thanksgiving - I set up an "event invitation" on FB - to my many extended family members - who I know use FB almost daily - and we quickly & easily set up a date for our gathering, which was interesting - rather than endless phone calls to everyone.   It was the first time to do it that way - felt a bit odd at first, but actually worked quite well! 

I do worry when I see kids with hundreds of "friends" - and poor privacy settings - they have yet to learn about unintended consequences of posting pics of the last drinking party, or the new bong they just purchased ... etc.   Sigh.  

It helps me navigate to FarmTown. Other then that - not much.

I think facebook has it's place, you just need to realize what it is.  It's great for keeping in touch with people not in the same city, whether it's just online or to send a message if you're going to be in town, need to get a phone number or e-mail after someone moves or changes jobs, etc.

I have a lot of acquantances as well, you never know when a network of people can help you out even if they aren't your friends.  I don't really have anything on facebook that I care too much if anyone sees, and I have customized my privacy settings.  I only add people I've actually met or are a friend of a friend and had a reason to contact them.  For example, I added a girl who is friends with one of my fiance's relatives.  She's in her first year of university and didn't know anyone here.  Her parents were a little worried and it helped them let go a little knowing that there were some responsible (ha! but , I'm not 18) people in the same city.  Facebook was the easiest way of connecting and giving her my phone number.

Facebook is great for planning events for large groups as well as for with friends, sharing pictures, and I do use it in place of e-mail a lot of the time.  I also used to chat, but haven't used that feature recently.  It's rude to call someone and do something else, like work on a paper or watch tv.  There's no problem chatting and doing that though, sometimes I'll chat with friends about a show we're both watching during commercial breaks, I wouldn't do that on the phone.

I connect with family via facebook. We all have so many computer crashes we keep losing each others email addresses.

I also connect with teacher friends who r teaching overseas.

I guess I'm the first one on here to really USE facebook, and enjoy it in some ways.

First point:  re: Farmville etc - If you wave the cursor over the right side of each post, there is an x you can use to remove such posts - so use the x and say 'don't show Farmville anymore" or soemthing like that. 

You can x out or delete posts that people leave with rude or private info.

You can click on the chat box, then click options, then click 'go offline' so that you don't have to chit chat with lots of people (even though I know you love them dearly). 

I have tons of friends, but have not be-friended people I consider 'the boss' or work people that I don't count as friends.  Ok- not that they aren't friends, but personal friends, I guess.  I care about my congregation, but don't want to always share what I'm doing with everyone.

I have met long lost friends and in some cases we drift & delete each other, but its nice to know their ok.  And in others, I am thrilled to reconnect & have discovered new life for our relationships.

I get that some folks are more introverted, or uninterested in the sort of stuff I get from facebook, but for me, I love the little connections and idea sharing.  I've learned about Playin for Change and It Gets Better, and meaningful videos for my work & lots of other things that I am grateful for. 

But I dont' play the games, and don't irritate people with constant conversation & chit chat.  I hope.  I try not to

Facebook for me is a way to stay in touch with friends and family in other towns especially since we moved to Ottawa. We have friends with kids who we want to exchange pics with, grandparents who eagerly await photos of their grandsons, it's an awesome way to let everyone know when we're back in town for a visit without having to remember a million email addresses and missing someone. But no, it's not a great way to 'meet people', so much as it's a way of maintaining contacts you already have.  I have ~200 FB 'friends', and of all of them who were/are acquaintances, only two have become really good friends due to FB. The others either were family/close-ish friends to begin with, and/or acquaintances I just can't bother purging (and/or who I enjoy checking in with even if they aren't best friends - ie teachers I used to work with who I enjoy checking up on them and the kids, a couple wonder friends, etc.).

I have enjoyed aspects of Facebook as well - the videos and article people post...  

And there were a couple of people who are now living in a different city.  But the kind of checking in that you can do on a public forum like FB, is it really conducive to deepening friendship?  I guess that's my question:  what does FB do for friendship. Some (Jimmy Kimmel) argue that it's actually cheapening it.  Because how do you define a "facebook friend".  How different is a facebook friend from the women at the grocery story or coffee shop that you happen to chat up on occasion?  She shows you her kids' photos, you show her yours.  And if you happen to have your photos from your last vacation, you might even share those.  Would you call her your "friend" tho?  That's the thing - is Facebook redefining friendship?  

That reminds me, I need to unfriend a couple of former coworkers that I'm really not interested in. 

I play treasure island on facebook and keep up with my family.  Most of the outings that I've gone on with my brother and his family have been arranged through facebook chat.  Bigger get togethers like Thanksgiving are also organized through facebook.  I also have a cousin who keeps tabs on everyone who lets us know if something has happened through facebook.  A few weeks ago I even used it to let a couple coworker know that there was no overtime on the weekend because they had to leave before we found out if we could work.

I prefer to post pictures through picassa (I think it's called).  The quality and privacy is better.

Thanks, Carolla, we made it through.  It was really not fun tho.  And taught me a hard lesson about investing in the wrong places!! :-)

Facebook allows me to "bump in to" old friends and acquaintances more easily.  I get caught up on what they are doing now and vice versa, and I like that.  If everyone still lived back home, we'd run in to each other sometimes, but we're all so spread out now that it just doesn't happen.  I feel more connected with facebook.  No, the 283 people on my friend list (yes, 283!) aren't good friends, but I didn't want or expect them to be.  Some of my reconnections have been more positive than others...friendships have been reborn, even though we live far apart.  We play games like Wordscraper and Family Feud and comment on each other's status updates and pictures and really, that's all I need it to be. 

Hi Agnieska - no, I don't think FB deepens friendship - but it can be a way to keep connections open where relationships already exist.  Oops - gotta go - my daughter is skyping me!

   I have a facebook account but it hasn't been something that I considered was a way to deepen or grow friendships.  I actually didn't get one for the longest time but caved in when most of my family and extended family just started using it as an easy way to keep in touch with what each other is up to on a more regular basis.  We're spread out all over the place and it's nice to have some contact beyond an occasional family reunion or function like funerals and weddings.   My close family which I do see and talk to regularly posts pictures of things they do and it's great to have a one stop place to check those things out.   I don't post much on it myself though.    I have older friends who are now spread out all over the place and it's also nice to have a way of just checking in when the feeling hits.   Most of the people I'm social with in real life aren't facebook friends and even if they were I doubt I would use it that much with them anyways.  

 I do play some facebook games occasionally and the majority of my 'friends' are actually people I don't know in real life.  I have it set up so they can't see what my actual friends and family sees  so privacy isn't an issue.   I don't expect anything from them except social game stuff but it has been kinda neat getting to know and chat with a few of them beyond just game stuff, especially people in different parts of the world.   I don't kid myself though, they aren't friends beyond the facebook walls and will never be more then that.    

So I guess I like facebook for some things but it's not something I consider vital to my social or family life.   It just makes some things a bit easier.  

Most of my points have been covered by the likes of Birthstone and Oliviet_Sarah, but I wanted to add...

I find it a great communications tool.  I have friends spread across Canada and across the world and Facebook has been a way to keep in touch with them and even strengthen/deepen friendships.  Sometimes I will meet someone, we'll add each other to Facebook, and then through Facebook our friendship will actually grow.  (This has happened several times now.)

It seems I am one of the few people here who have made friends on Facebook -- like, I met them on Facebook and then that transitioned into real life.  Two examples y'all know are Kinst and Omni -- yeah, we "met" here on Wondercafe, but we "re-met" on Facebook and have become good real-life friends since.  (Though they neither one is lucky enough to live in the wonder-city that is Winnipeg, so I rarely see them.)  But... I guess that's kind of cheating if I technically met them here and not Facebook and I can't see them regularly.

So... An actual example of meeting a friend on Facebook: Two weeks ago, a guy my age who I do not know and we do not have any mutual friends, decided to friend me on Facebook.  He was looking through the members of some United Church Facebook group, looking for people in Winnipeg near his age, found me, and decided to friend me.  I accepted his friend request because I've been friended by totally random people before and it tends to work out (though this is one of only two times it's been someone in Winnipeg).  We got to chatting on Facebook and soon moved to BBM (which is a chat program on BlackBerry phones) -- and now we seem to hang out quite regularly.  Well, we've known each other for two weeks, so it's hard to say if it's regular, but we've already hung out three times.

But perhaps there are some unique circumstances here -- he was on a quest for new friends, so he took the leap of friending a total stranger.  I am always on a quest for new friends, so i accepted the friending of a total stranger.  If either one of us were not in that frame of mind, perhaps it wouldn't have happened.

Pictures.  This is one of the best features of facebook.  I have actually noticed a lot of grandparents joining up to facebook for that reason.  It is good because not only  are they posted but the tagging feature and comments and stuff is wonderfully instantaneous.

Peace

Joel

I keep up with my nieces and some cousins-in different provinves. I chat with some of the wondercafe gang! Our youth minister sends out weekly updates under messages-I also use it to keep up with some friends in town as life is busy for us all.

i don't use it for games and block their updates!

I share some pictures, but not every one I get.  And I've used it to connect better with new friends (from various church areas, or doula stuff, or just friends, or jsut family).  I don't expect to be best friends with everyone, but I also don't post personal stuff on pages or live my entire life through my status line either.  I use it for sending messages, and that helps with connections -  I actually find it gives me permission to be friends with people & let them know I care about them, even if I don't have to become their best friend.

As a busy adult/parent - we have precious little time for actually getting together and for having confidants.  but that doesn't mean that if life were different, or when I'm on a retreat weekend or in a committee that I haven't found people I admire and enjoy. Its nice to 'like' something they say, and share a story without any expectation to be a regular part of each other's lives.

My experience with facebook:

When my son started using it a lot, we discussed privacy and he insisted that "only his friends" could get information. So I signed up as "John Smith", to see what I could find out.

Turned out, I could see his friends, girls with pictures I would not want my daughter to post, with full name and the name of their High School.

Well, easy pray for any pedophile.

After that, it happened that I seemed to be getting monthly emails from ladies I didn't know with "pictures".  Not sure, what business these ladies were in.....or if they were also looking for "friends".

Facebook is not my cup of tea.

that is another reason I'm on - I'm friends with my daughter, and even some of her friends.  That way I can see wht they say to each other, keep tabs on what big dramas are happening.  I can tell my daughter to delete things or change her status or watch her tongue, and talk with her about things.  I remind her that she has her grandmother & aunt & church people on her page, so she has to behave. (takes a village!!) I can also have fun with her, commenting very occasionally on her page (not often!) and liking stuff she likes.  

I have learned that she  has a circle of friends I like & mostly trust (I know I know - they are teens, but at least within reason!).  I've learned that they be-friend many people from school no matter about friendships or anything, so it is a huge city of kids all on one page. 

I think every parent should be on, just to supervise.   And I think my daughter has learned a lot about being aware & mindful. 

Sounds like your presence on facebook, especially with your daughter, is very responsible parenting, birthstone.

I use FB to stay in some sort of contact with spread out family members, real life and internet friends.  Mostly these aren't friends that I can talk to about the really important things in life - its more social chit chat.  When I see a status that indicates someone is needing some more 'real' contact I phone or email them personally. I think I would have liked it a lot when I was an 'at home' mom.  I see some of these reaching out for a wee pat or bit of sympathy, support or suggestions.  Maybe it will be more important to me if I becoe housebound.  A semblance of social life beats total isolation!

Facebook, for me, is an excellent way to be up-to-date with the lives of people I barely knew in high school and how they feel about the end of the weekend arriving.

and the best part is, she doesn't hate me for it

I try hard not to pester her on there, or do embarrassing things like post bathtub baby pics & stuff.  And sometimes I use my pic of  her & me as my profile, and I think she secretly loves that.

BTW - my sweetheart isn't on facebook, since he feels like he's not interested in people he never sees for a reason.  I get that.  Its mostly true, though sometimes he peeks over my shoulder, or grins when I share news of old friends. 

It has its good points about it, connecting with family in other provinces etc. But it started to annoy me when I think it looks more about my cousin getting 900 friends. Do you actually really maintain those relationships. I look at it this way... if you never bother to phone, or email, or write or keep in touch in any way, then its a superficial friendship and I discard them pretty quick!

My wife absolutely abhors it! she has two friends who lost marriages because husbands were fooling around on it! had affairs! its easy for guys to "cruise" looking at other girls profiles that are wide open for all eyes! its a perverts heaven for younger kids!

I really don't trust uploading the pics too, because it never gets deleted permanently. Once on facebook it stays in facebook, thats what I was told anyway!

Not sure if it has already been sent; however, there is a basic assumption in your post which is incorrect:  that a "friend" will see every status update of all their "friends".

It doesn't.

I will rarely look back over 24 hrs of updates.  I will see the highlihts if someone else has posted.

If you need assistance, then you ask directly..and communicate via a message to those who you wish assistance from.

A general status update, looking for a babysitter...doesn't work as it isn't how status updates are designed.

re friends...i use chat regularly with a few people who i would not talk with..it has definitely deepened our friendship and would mean should we be in the same city, we could quickly get up to speed.

That was the point where I decided no more of this fake friendship business.  The people I had on FB did NOT bother to call or even email when I needed help for real.  Clearly it was all for entertainment only.  It's fun and games when that is all you expect.

But I am still looking for an answer:  would you call the people on your facebook friends??  What do you think it does to the idea of "friendship" that everyone and their dog is your friend on facebook... even if you've never met them in real life and possibly never will.  

And see, I am an "at home" mom.  And there were plenty of suggestions and sympathy.  Just not a drip of real help when the time came.  So I found myself really disturbed by that.  I can flip open any website on the computer to find those same suggestions and that same degree of sympathy from strangers who won't presume to call themselves my "friends".  And I would never bother to ask them for actual physical help.  

It is an illusion of a social life.  An illusion of connection.  Just because I know that so and so has a head ache, and so and so's kid just puked, and such and such is going to watch hockey this weekend...  WHAT DO I ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT THESE PEOPLE??  Nothing.  Nothing at all.  And, with a bit of imagination, I could have all that figured out without facebook anyway...

AG, there are many types of friends and degrees of friends, and friends that I can rely on for different things in real life.

I would not presume that facebook friends have any less degree of complexity and classification.

In fact, I do put my fb friends in categories. 

will write more on those types of classifictions.

 I find it helpful to find some information I would not have received any other way.  My friend network is  limited and it is helpful for family gatherings.  However, some people believe that one needs to know every detail of their life - like went to movies and went to bed late.  Now if the movie was worth seeing or some information is given that is ok - by the way after watching the social network last night I almost dropped face book... Great movie about vacuous people and nihilism.... and reminded me of how stupid we were in college or could be. 

chansen, thanks for my first laugh of the day.

When you're not yanking someone's chain about their faith - you really are one funny guy.

 I don't see Facebook as a way to make friends. I use it primarily to look at my nieces's photos of their increasing number of babies. I also use the private message function to send a quick message to someone who's already a friend in "real" life.

I accepted my wondercafe friends at a time when there was much duplicity happening at Wondercafe - although another cyber site, it did instill some confidence.

Agnie,

IMO you're setting yourself up to be disappointed, if you think that most of those that are friends on Facebook will come to your assistance.

Why?  Because that's something you can only expect from "real" close friends - not cyber "friends".

I'm sorry to be so direct - but unrealistic assumptions can lead to disappointment at best, and resentment at worst.

It can be a lonely time for a mother of young children. One of my step-daughters is a single parent. She had a middle-class upbringing but lives in a working class area. The reality is that she has little in common with the other young Mums in her area. Maintaining her old friends is difficult in her new situation.

She seems to cope by doing an external university course (slowly) - and by ringing folks at night when it's cheap.

I'm just a step-Mum - but we talked for two hours the other night.

I don't see facebook as a way to make real life friends, but unlike many of you I have made online friends that I enjoy but I know I will  never meet. I think others also do this by joining groups with those who have the same interest and a virtual friendship can grow, just like those here on wondercafe. This has been wonderful for me as due to health reasons I no longer get out a lot and am unable to meet new people and these friendships due serve a need.... we  laugh and have fun, chat and sometimes offer support as you do here on the cafe. Unlike spending my time watching TV, if I make a post I usually have real live people sending me a reply ... and most often more than one. I have  met  individuals from different countries with different customs that I find interesting. Usually our common interest is our love of our dogs. That to me is what facebook is about ... just my thoughts.

I would agree with you completely. Except that four of my "Facebook friends" are also my neighbors - one is just next door, two are four door down, the fourth across the road. All are at home with kids.

Just for the record: I do not expect help in real life from cyber friends.
I am sure there are a million reasons why they couldn't help.
The point is that FB creates this illusion of people being there and available. And they sort of are... Like a grocery clerk or post office worker.

I have friends in real life that are there for a laugh, for shared story, for helping with a meal, for helping with a church friend, for witty conversation, for quiet time, for summer, for winter, for telling me that I am being an idiot, or for telling me they agree, ....just as I am their friend at church, at work, in the neighbourhood, in travel, in community.

Those friendships have been formed in some situations over years, and others due to circumstances.

They are all friends.   None have the same expectations from me or for me.    If I wanted feedback on a parenting issue, it is improbable that I would ask the same person that I ask for input on a work issue or the colour to paint the living room.

In addition, there are people that I know that are more than acquaintances, less than full friends. They are people who I look to for what is happening in their life.  A musician that I admire and want to know when she is playing in town. A social justice activist whose input I appreciate. An ultra-conversavitive voice that I need to hear..just to ensure balance. The youth that I have mentored or taught, and lie to see what they are doing. The cousins that I rarely see, but love to see their kids photos and life activities.  ************************************************************************************

Note: i haven't seen any comment re the status update.  Again, just because someone updates their status does not mean that I will see it.  Ag, do you understand that? There lack of response does not mean that they saw it and chose not to respond.

I'm sad to report that all I can say to that is you are very very fortunate.  And that I once had all sorts of friends as well.

What is your definition of friend?

Do they also see you as a friend?

Okay, that sounds like a personal preference - having a great variety of friends to address a variety of needs.  I do have a great variety of acquaintances like that, where I would talk to some about some topics and not others.  To me, a friend is some a bit more involved in my life - and if I needed to ask about both parenting advice and opinions about paint colors that would be fine.

Now that is a category I am definitely familiar with.  And it seems that the majority of those called "friends" by Facebook, in my experience, fall in that category.  At the moment, those are the people in my life the closes to what I define as a friend.  Yes, it was totally naive of me to think that any of them would help me out in a difficult spot. 

I understand that I can't know who sees my status updates and who does not.  Is there a way to know that?  As far as I know, Facebook policy doesn't even permit any application that would allow one to trace back that info.  

I do understand a few other things:  that I can only assume that if they have me on their "friend" list, my updates will pop up on their home screen or newsfeed.  I can assume this based on the fact that when I've posted in the past,  either something funny or a video, they have responded. So, when I posted my call for help, that was my reason - having in the past had peoples' responses to my posts.  I do understand that not every single person out of my 65 "friends" saw my post, but I can be pretty confident that a certain percentage did.  

Like I said earlier, I am sure that there were a million different reasons why my "friends" didn't respond.  The bigger question for me, why should they have?  If facebook is for entertainment, a kind of reality tv about people you know, why would they actually act on anything?

A.

Here's an article about what tends to show up in news feeds:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-10-18/the-facebook-n...

So it is quite possible that more people see your photos, videos and links compared to your status updates.

Gah, that's disgusting!  Just goes to show how a "facebook friend" is actually just a puppet...  I'm so happy I'm done with that!!!!

Wow, Ag, you are really putting facebook into a small sphere.  On the other hand, if that is how you wished it to be... a record of very close friends..then you chose the wrong tool. 

I don't know of any tool that will meet your needs.

Pick up a phone and ask for help, I guess

ps..the point of my first description..that long litany of friends, is not one friend fits in all those categories, but rather, friends are situational...and so the realms they fit into will change with time, their space, life circumstances, etc as much as mine.

Agnieszka - I am sensing that you are lonely and hurt by other's use of facebook, and meaning of friend.   I wonder if you have a close friend or two, or an 'inner circle' to rely on??  Facebook isn't what you need then, right now - what you need is time spent chatting with these other women, or finding activities that you love, where there are others to share your enthusiasm.  Or maybe nurture a connection with a sister or someone who can be a confidant, close by or not. 

The 'disappointment' issue is a case of cart before the horse.  The friends I have on facebook are only friends because of some tie - ie - like Youthworker said, the 'friend' he had never met reached out to him because of connection in a city where maybe they had something in common.  It iddin't mean they had to be best pals, or even meet, or become confidants/ie real friends. There is a diff between 'friend' and friend, methinks.

If I have people I care about as close friends (inner circle) then I make time on the phone or in person or when help is needed.  They are cultivated as real friends, and facebook just is a fluffy way to share pics with one another etc.

If I have people whose company I enjoyed at a church or retreat or meeting or conference (from either of my work spheres) they are my 'friends' and I may or may not develop those relationships further.  Facebook keeps us laughing together, and gives me a resource in case I want to aks some questions or share some ideas.  Facebook doesn't develop my friendship except providing some frequency & insight.  Its up to me to make more contact either through emails or phone or face to face.  And when I see them again, it is like seeing an old friend.  No ties or expectation of continued contact, but appreciation for the time spent together.

People I meet with something in common (ie my kid's friends or their parents) - facebook 'friending' is a way to get a sense of who they are, and a line of contact that helps me keep my kids safer & supervised better.  They don't become real friends unless I sense something special about them and take the time to get to know them face to face, over coffee etc.  i'm very content to have a cheerful smile with them online or when dropping my kids off, and move on.  I wouldn't jump to help them out because I am assuming they  have an inner circle, or at least the choice to have created one or not.  That said, if I discovered that they desperately needed help all of a sudden and I was right there, I'd help.  Facebook 'friending' doesn't give me the responsibliity to be in the inner circle.

Family - if all I ever do is facebook my mother, she'll kill me.  It doesn't replace phones and face to face.  It just simplifies some communication (when I don't have time for a call) and sharing pictures etc.  However, I have cousins that I won't ever be close to, but I still have shared stories & fondness for them.  The status updates make me smile, and let me say hi.  I don't rush off to help them because I expect they have inner circles, or the choice to create those circles if they choose.  

For my 'friends' - please don't take this wrong - I like ya lots, but my inner circle & work & family fill my life, as should yours.  If that isn't happening, facebook isn't going to fix it, though it could be a tool to nurture it.  What is needed is time spent lingering over conversation in the schoolyard, or while raking leaves, or at church.  And there is a well-accepted understanding that it is harder to make close friends as we're in the Kid stage - everyone is just tired & busy. 

I give people permission to leave me in their outer circle, and I still value the smiles & laughs & shared admiration.  Good enough for me.  My focus is on keeping my family & inner circle close & supported.

I find Facebook to be a very useful event-organization tool, and a convenient E-mail system.  Past that, not much else.  But that's still enough to justify its usage, to me.

Hey, wait a second.  I wanted the word "friend" to have some meaning in that context. Is that so wrong??  

Let's get something straight - YOU, Pinga, like Facebook, yipee.  

Can we leave it at that??

And did you read the article Chemgal posted?  Instead of worrying about what sphere I have put Facebook, read the article and see how it actually works.  A few things I didn't know really helped me decide against it permanently.  Example, people on Facebook think that it's just people chatting with others they know.  In the meantime, there is a metaphorical filter, actually like a director cutting and pasting what she/he *thinks* should show up on people's newsfeeds. That's just for starts.  

And then you can get mad the the people who wrote the article if you like...

Ya couldn't come up with anything more flippant, could'ya?  

Sheesh already.

I said loud and clear - I don't have friends I can call on right now.  Did you miss that??  

Seriously.

Yes, I GOT that.  And I said, lucky you.  Yours friends are situational.  I say my acquaintances are situational.  So, we have a different defintion of "friend", is that okay with you?  

oh dear...

Agnieszka - I wish I had a great idea to solve the biggest problem that you're missing some good friendships.  I'm not sure how to help with that, but I can assure you that I feel sadly for you in a warm 'friend' kind of way.  I just can't tangibly help though.

I worry that maybe Facebook would act like a bandaid for you & others who are lonely, and so I understand your deep frustration with it.  I also hear that you are distrustful of the website practices in general - me too, though I'm still content to put up with it.

Facebook isn't a bad thing, but it is not a measure of relationship - only meaningful interaction & followthrough in any form can measure relationship.  I had a friend who called me every week by phone- religiously - and then I realized she was only ever talking about herself.  That ended the friendship after awhile.  I've had other friends who were too busy unless they needed something.  Those relationships ended.  I've had a close friend whose life needed to change and grow, and I didn't fit the new path- that ended.  They all predate facebook.

I hope you can find things that make you feel good, and confident, and then I hope you can find places to be yourself amongst others.  Some church retreat weekends might introduce you to many new people who are open &  honest.  Maybe helping at your son's school will connect you with some moms.  I don't have answers, just starting ideas that might trigger something.  The biggest hurdle though is to find a way to be yourself and at peace.  I wish I could help more.

Oh Birthstone, your words bring tears to my eyes.  I feel totally pathetic for being in this situation.  I've talked my head off to counsellors and my husband in trying to understand why and how.  It just seems to be the way things are currently for me, as a stay-at-home mom.

As I said, I don't expect tangible help from cyberfriends.  I *was* hoping for tangible help from the people on my facebook who are also my neighbours (physically, right next to me).  And clearly, that's too much to ask.  People are different from how I would hope or wish they were.  That's just the reality of it.  And I *was* hoping that facebook would be a chance, an opportunity to grow some connections... and I was wrong.  It might happen, for sure.  It's just not very likely to happen.  And in my case it didn't.

That's just it.  

I would agree with you on the first part of this statement... if we could replace the term "friend" with something a bit less loaded.  

Don't get me wrong - I realize just how naive I was in thinking that the word "friend" on Facebook actually meant friend... as in, a friend... you know, the old fashioned meaning of the word??  Or maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part...  Gah, I sound like I'm ancient here.

It's shocking to me that I now find myself thinking I should have been more cynical about the whole thing. 

But, seriously, what does the word "friend" mean in that context anyway??    "The people you know or simply know of"? They might be your friends, or they might be strangers. Somehow they all get the same title.   

No, that doesn't make Facebook a bad thing.  Just a confusing and slightly screwed up thing.  

And if, as you say, only meaningful interaction and follow through in any form can measure relationship, what is the  "follow through" that takes place in that context?  That someone comments on your status update? Or that someone likes you comment?

I definitely enjoyed the fact that people responded to my updates.   There was fun banter there.  I had a whole chat with one person - an acquaintance - and thought to myself, hey, this could be a friend.  But then I saw her *in real life* and she didn't even bother to respond to my nod.  Go figure.  Friend?  Uhm, by title only.  And, I believe, that is messed up.

I can relate to those examples.  I guess, it seems to me that Facebook is the perfect forum for those very types of connections, and maybe, by chance, the occasional real and meaningful one.  It seems to me that, by its very nature, it can't foster the meaningful stuff because there is too much going on, it's too busy, too distracting.  

One "person I know" on my former facebook, has for the past three months or so been posting her "new low weight".  

Another "person I know", shares the funny/silly/non sensical comments her kids make.

Yet another - and this seems to be a new trend - types in one or two words with exclamations which are supposed to keep you guessing or wondering?  like "Wow!"  or "That was something!"  or "Happy!"

Almost as if each person on facebook was a performer, like a busker on a street corner, trying to get attention, and then sometimes, a member of the endless stream of people who are passing by - "friends"?? - pitch in with a comment, a joke, a question... which may or may not receive a reply.  

Thanks, Birthstone.  It will get sorted out in time.  One certain thing at the moment - I accept reality as it is and will not accept illusions.

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Ag raises an interesting question around the definition of friends and whether it has shifted over time.  Rather than take this thread down that path, I will create a thread, maybe tonight, unless someone else feels like it, around the usage of the word "friend".

Also, Birthstone alludes to the social bank that you exists..that investment in time with the other individual.  If I remember correctly, this is an aspect of EIQ (Emotional IQ), a new buzz term which has been up & down the circuit over hte last few years.  It may come into the topic of friendships, but, it covers the "scratch my back"  mentality  or a network of bank account which some people naturally input into and withdraw from in relationships without even realizing they do so.

Agnieszka, I get you didn't like my responses.  I am very aware of how facebook status work which is why I indicated that it was within a reasonable probability that they may not have seen your particular update.  By giving them a call you will know for sure if they are willing to help out.    Even email is not guaranteed. I know friends with multiple emails,and have friends who do not check their email even weekly.

Birthstone's responses regarding cultivating friendship are awesome.  Friendships can be cultivated in virtual and face-to-face situations.  They can transecnd the medium, one can start in one style, move to another, and shift back. This is similair to how friendships can shift over time. 

What I am faced with over and over again is that I don't understand or like or want to be part of shallow and superficial connections, and yet that is what people around me want.   OR at least, I haven't met the people who want more.  

I called one of my chatty facebook friend / neighbours for help once.  About 9:30 PM, I was in heavy labour with my third, at home.  My husband was having trouble connecting the water hose to our sink to fill my birthing tub (my labours are very fast so we hardly had any prep time).  This wasn't a bit deal because I could just as easily birth on the bed.  But I wanted to be in the water.  So I called my neighbour and asked if her husband could help us.  He was sleeping, she said.  

We figured it out on our own and I learned a lesson I'm having trouble forgetting.

Perhaps true friendships can be cultivated in cyberspace... if people can come to agreement about what friendship means to them.  Someone said that we live in a culture of instant gratification - "friends" are made AND dropped over time when they cease to be entertaining or whatever.  That is not friendship in my mind...  The very nature of anonymity and handles instead of names prohibits people from being real in cyberspace.  I can say that all of you on Wondercafe are my friends.  But can that be really true?  I know nothing about you as people.   Who are you really?  Words on a computer screen, potentially no more real than something out of a fiction novel.  

I don't have any answers to this.  Just trying to sort it out for myself.

Agnieszka

umm, Ag, I have friends from virtual space, which have moved into the real space. They have been there when needed.  Just because it does not work for you does not mean that it doesn't work for others. Just because it is only superficial for you, does not mean that it is superficial for others.

Dropping a friend over time is not "instant gratification".  In fact, I recently via facebook reacquainted with my best friend in highschool.  We had a lovely visit, caught up, and had a laugh. We hope to meet again.  I did not call her when my mother died, presuming, incorrectly, that she would find out via our facebook, newspaper & family members.  She did not. She sent a lovely note to both my Dad and I (both through facebook), and she plans to visit him (we're thinking jan/feb when he will need a lift).   So..those friends were dropped years ago...and they were reintroduced thorugh facebook.  Over 30 years, we have changed; yet, there is that sense of shared story which connects us still.

The story you share of your friend tells more about her willingness ot ask her husband to do something, than it does your relationship with yoru friend....and it may also say something about someone being uncomfortable re a homebirth.  Have you spoken to that person about your call?

My cousin & I are friends.  We have seen each other at various frequencies as our lives have shifted, and both anticipate that after retirement, given healthsustains, that we will spend more time together.  Again, that is not about life changing.

and I find that all my true deep friends all started out as superficial aquaintances and grew literally over years.

My friend C who lived in the same apartment building-6 aprtments and we both worked a the Health Unit-became a bridesmaid when I amrried and then my daughter's godmother.

My friend S met because our cabins were beside each other at Naramata and we were in the same course. Turned out he was a year behind me in the marraige ending timeline -and we are virtual friends mostly with a few real life visits.

Did the counsellors you talked to have any good advice Agnie?

I am sorry to hear that you are feeling isolated Agnieszka.  That can be a very tough spot to be in.  At first i thought you meant physically isolated but later you mention enighbours on the street so I guess you mean you feel socially isolated.

Have you recently moved? or something like that?

I wonder how many other young moms on your street feel the same.  Our mothers didn't because everyone "lived" in each others lives so much but that has changed alot.  I also remember you talking about homeschooling.  I guess as an adult I met many of my current friend by virtue of being moms in the same class.  And you are not going to get that opportunity either.

I wonder if it might help if you started a sort of formal get together on a weekly basis.  Talk to the moms and invited them and kiddies over for coffee and play one morning a week.  Let it build slowly and maybe someone else will do another day a week.

i am just thinking of trying to get into a more intimate relationship with these moms.

I know for myself, if I sent out an email asking for help ( i dont' use face book) i wouldn't get far.  BUt if I called a couple of my good friends with a real issue they would come right over as I would to them.  BUt those friendships have bene built over years of coffee and commiserating and laughing and tears.  Not over computers.

perhaps another way of getting to know them all better would be to start a mom and tot walk every morning.  informal, but every morning at 9 for whoever is around......  something where you start to rely on each other for companionship.

As to the problem with a neighbour and your labour difficulties.  I wonder if that was a bit more of being uncomfortable with a home delivery. 

agnieszka - you know I'd have run over in a heart beat to fill that pool!!  But then I'm a doula at heart, so we just didn't know each other yet.  That was another area I thought of that you might explore - the birth/doula world - check out your area to see if there are people around and go to a workshop or a conference - very good people in those circles.  Wondermail me and I could do some investigating for your area too.

And you asked about 'follow through' - I should have been clearer - no, I meant real follow through, as in loving to chat with you or get the kids together, or go one endlessly about tv shows together, or bringing food when you're sick, or letting you help when they're down, or sharing news stories, or laughing at all your jokes and keeping you in stitches over silly things, or prodding you to exercise along with them, or get off your butt and fix something (but you don't mind the prodding because you know they love you in all the right ways)... - that's what I mean. 
It becomes an equal and equally recharging relationship,  naturally and with a bit of work (we all need to cut each other some slack and be ourselves too). 

On the online/facebook thing - I have the same experience as Pinga - some online friends have become, maybe not my "inner circle" immediately, but in that next ring of "if only we had the time, we'd be inner circle friends"

Hmmm.  An exercise for all of us:  on a piece of paper, put your name in the middle, then an inner circle ring, then a next ring (I've named my 2nd circle above), then a 3rd ring - 'fun interesting people I admire/enjoy'; '4th 'work & committee friends & parent friends';  5th- 'people I've met I'd like to know better someday';6- 'people who make me smile but who cares'; 7 - 'complete dolts!'  (lol- ok, we can be nicer about these outer rings folk!!)

Think about where family members fit, or old friends from a long time ago, or maybe about who might move from one ring to the next inner one.  How about online friends - maybe some ofthem belong in the inner circle...thinking of a couple now) and what could be done, even if they aren't close to fill the birth tub or be face to face, maybe there is room for more email & phone.  And if there are stll holes, that retreat or workshop idea is my best one - still sticking with that one.

By the way - another clarification - just because someone is in the second circle (if only I had time) and not the 'inner circle', doesn't mean that I don't love them as much or recognize the depth of friendship.  Just sayin'

OH and.... cultivate your relationship with your sweetheart - maybe this is the time for nurturing that one.  It might be like the strong beautiful magnolia in the front yard that you're trying to surround with new houseplants.

Find ways to have tons of fun together, put the kids to bed early and have a late supper together with candles.  Think of things you both enjoy (you probably did them before kids came along) and make time for them.  Start to have fun, share jokes together, make treats for one another, and just generally be crazy about him.  Your smile & attention will warm him up, and I bet that will be a good project!

Start with what you've got, make it awesome and then work from there.

I think the word "friends" is a misnomer. A different word should be used like pals, or buddies or passers-by. We use the friend word on faceBook and Wonder Cafe and I think it is a misconception. I think sometimes people think it is a status symbol to have 340 friends, RL friends can be facebook buddies but I don't know if facebook buddies can be RL friends.