Not sure this is helpful, but is it possible she has an untreated mood disorder -- bipolar, for example? What you describe -- the impulsiveness, sexual acting out, drug use, self-absorption, lack of judgement etc. etc. etc. -- all point to bipolar to me.

Just a thought. (It's doubtful, but wouldn't it be great if all that is needed is meds?)

NInja.  Yup.  I think she does.  In spades.

I have suggested, over the course of the last three years, that working with a counsellor or a professional might be a healthy, helpful thing.  I have suggested that it might help her clarify what she might want and need to allow her to be happy as she moves forward.  She is not interested. She is perfectly happy, thank you very much! Her kids are great (they are not).  She is FINE, JUST FINE.  

I wonder if it is more a counsellor would force her to face herself and own up to some of her behaviour, which has been very hurful and destructive, and she is not ready for that. Not sure.  

All I know is that in every exchange with her she is the victim and I am the big, bad, mean sister who is not being nice to her because I still maintain a relationship with her ex and I refuse to be emotionally bullied.

ninjafaery, that was my first thought. It sounded so much like my mom. Yet, I also thought it might be a midlife crisis, being wild because of a feelign of un-sown oats or life passing them by.

daisyjane,

That said, regardless of WHAT is causing it, you have the right to say you are done when you are done.

If you are focused on guilt and what will people think, then you have work to do before you can be done without harming you.

if folsk thought they needed a counsellor or had a problem, there would not be so much of a problem, part of the illness is thinking everything is fine and that it is not a problem.

Thanks SG.  Good to see you again!  You always have such words of wisdom.

PS- my baby (who I have chatted with you about is now almost 11) has discovered theatre and is a little thespian!  He gets to wear make-up and LOVES it!!

Tough situation for you Daisy Jane.  I found myself reading and relating what is happening to similar things that friends have had to deal with.

FWIW I doubt you will ever know for sure just what is going on with your sister.  Mental illness, emotional immaturity, whatever.  She isn't sounding like she is interested in working to make it better.  Poor kids are in a rotten space as all this goes on too.

I know several people who found some counselling sessions very helpful for learning new ways of talking when with the 'difficult person'.  Ways to 'dodge' some of the hurtful comments and  (best of all) - ways to not accept responsibility for her problems.

Wishing you hope through this time in your life.

Hi Daisy Jane-as an aside-see if you can read the latest CAOT Journal. It has an article on LBG-as Ots and clients

About your sister I think you realize that you can't control or change her behavior But you can manage your behavior towards her.

Yes I think it is important for her children that you stay involved.

You can limit your invitations to see your sister but I wouldn't cut her off completely.

She may "wake up" and "wise up" and need her big sister to help her staighten out her mess-even though she is far from that now.

Perhaps limiting contact to e-mails and perhaps vocie mails. Use call display.

Keep seeing your B-in -law as that works for you and kids.

Since she complained to him and his partner about visitning you-they are the ones to deal with that, not you.

It must be frustrating for you (and your parents) as you watch her poor choices.

DaisyJane - I started typing up a half page of commentary and advice and then realized, I'm not there, I've never been in this situation, and I really don't know how you should deal with it.  

I feel for you.  You are in a difficult place.   I'm glad that you are seeing the children - they need you, and your family.     Just remember: she is your sister and always will be.    Whether it is right to separate yourself from her while she goes through this is something you will have to decide.   I know that you have broad shoulders.   But you also have your own physical and emotional health to think about - as well as the effectiveness of your involvement with her at this time.   

I  hope that you will figure out what is right for you.   

Thanks everyone.  There was a bit of a blowup today and I needed to debrief with some people who were removed from the situation.

It feels better just to have been able to talk about it honestly.  Within the family I feel I have to choose my words so carefully or run the risk of alienating or hurting someone (usually her).

DaisyJane

I was where you were a few years back.  What we found, when we as a family openly discussed, without her present, was that there were patterns of behaviour for years, which people had been covering up.

The damage to her children because we did NOT know what each person was experiencing so had no idea what the kids was experiencing was awful.  I cried. Broke my heart. Still feel sad remembering.

Think, if she is willing to do that with you, what is she doing with the kids.  In our case, we found that she took her kids to hash parties....and had relationships with men younger than her teenage daughter.  It was awful to discover that by our not discussing we had actually enabled her kids to have harm done. 

Through that period, until such time as we learned how to cope, we cut her off.  Her ex was welcomed back in into our lives openly and to allow the kids to see how people could react together.

I was able to take wisdom from wondercafe, work through my own guilt, figure out some shit, and then, contact a therapist who was an expert in the area we anticipated was the problem.  Without diagnosis, we agreed that the symptoms were the same as diagnosis X and so, our method of working through the problem was reasonable to do.

Since then, for the first time in many years, we had a short reconnection during a key holiday.  It was awkward, but good for the grandkids.

So....long story to say...do what is right for you & your family.    Protect yourself.  Ensure your parents are not abused...but if they are, unless they are unwell, they are adults.  You can help them find coping strategie,s, but they have to make their call.  My parents disowned my sibling due to the abuse they had received.

Be well.  Know that ou are right and well. 

ouCH!

Really good idea about inviting the kids with whichever parent they are with.  I would keep inviting the kids ( to live with you???????????!!!!!!!!!!).  At some point the ex is going to have to step up and get full custody.

I know that sounds extreme, and she will effin freak, but it's the kids at stake. 

In somewhat of a similar situation, it took years for our friend's dad to step up and extracate the kids from the toxic environment.  It was hard because the kids love their mom and dad, it's just that they are immature, have issues and kept effing up. 

It has taken the Grandfather every bit of his strength not to give up the kids, even when our friends went to court, but it will take years for anyone to really trust that this couple will not slip back into alcoholism et al.  They know it themselves, as one works in the area. 

It is good that they live 1000 miles away from the crisis now, it gives everyone a break from the geography and new starts. 

That is what I can pass on from my experience, Daisychain. 

I almost felt like kidnapping those kids myself and it was then that I developed the mantra for the Grandfather to step up.  It was not until Social Services removed the kids that he did.  He returned them once and not the second time.  They have been with him now for three years. 

My guess is that at this rate, your sister will lose the kids to Social Services, some time soon and at this point the Dad should step up.  It may be horrible, but he may have to wait until that time.

It will give your sister time to put her mental health back together.  Of course, she will/could attempt to deny her need to heal ( probably, not necessarily) by trying to get the kids back after a couple of months of therapy, but it will be best if the Dad fights to keep the kids for a few years with just visitation rights to the mom.

You may have to step up for this.  Your sister will hate you at first, but know you have her best interests at heart if you continue to find something unique in her to grow with and also if you don't let her drink or do drugs around you.

double post.

As an only child I have no experience with siblings so I'll leave that one.

As someone who has dealt with familial mental health issues, my only thoughts are if they are unwilling to seek professional help everybody else involved must do what is best for them. 

I would agree with others who say it sounds like your sister is going through some psychological trauma.  It could be something transitory like a mid life crisis or something more clinical; whatever it is she is not acting rationally and my experience has taught that one can not try and use rationality with the irrational.

In such cases you have to come up with your own survival strategy; patiently wait for the person to seek the help needed or walk away.  If the person returns to being rational they will see whatever your choice as the right one for you and will understand.  If they don't understand,  you have still made the right choice for you and the other people in your world and, most importantly, those people will understand.

In my case, when it was a spouse, I walked away; with my child I stay and fight.

And that is where my position lies; the children.  Those children need a safe harbour.  They need to know there is a place they can go where there are people who think only about them.  A place where there is no turmoil.

If it was me - and I'm not saying this would work for anyone else - I would let those children know my house was that haven.  I would also let *all* the so-called grown ups know it as well.  My house would be the "green zone", no battles permitted and all welcomed as long as they obeyed my house rule of children first.

An aware parent loves all children he or she interacts with - for you are a caretaker for those moments in time.

     Doc Childre

Welcome back DaisyJane. All this hits very close to the situation Naman faced as a a stepfather. His WonderCafe friends, including you DaisyJane were an invaluable help in leading himout of despair and depression.

LB,  I wonder if age of the child makes a difference -- ie does a parent always stick with their child, or if the child is 50...does the support shift.  For my parents, that was very hard.   After all, as you say, it is your child.  At the same time, when the verbal abuse became too much so that it was detrimental to their failing health, eventually they said "no more". 

I ponder this one, as I am betting DJ's parents are having a terrible time, as well

Naman...I am glad the cafe was helpful to you in those days.

Well my child is 25 ...

I can not speak for others but to make myself clear I do not tolerate verbal abuse from anyone not even my child.  When it occurs I cease the communication and ask the person to leave.  I make it clear exactly what I am refusing to accept - verbal or physical abuse - and leave open the door for the person to return once both of us calm down. 

In the case of my child that door will always remain open.  I see enough of my own stubborn, obstinance in my offspring to be patient.  Based on my past experience with others who I do not share that mother/child bond I can say that my patience is not so infinite and the door will close permanently.

Everyone needs to set their own boundaries and to do so one must recognize their own limits of tolerance.  To some, I may appear to have a high tolerance, others may see no tolerance at all.  My personal guideline is when something impacts my health, when I feel the strain on my physical body, I draw the line.

Even God has a hell: his love of Mankind.
       Paulo Coelho, The Devil and Miss Prym

I agree with others that your sister sounds like she is going through some mental health issues.

I would continue to offer her support, and to be there for her.  I don't think that means you need to socialize though.  Perhaps a weekly " hi, hope all is well" e mail or phone call.

I would continue to invite her kids over to play with cousins if that has been their habit.

But I would stop inviting the ex over.  I think that exacerbates the issues and "feeds the fire"

I actually think she is correct that she should get your support.  I understand that you feel she is the responsible person in the breakup but I doubt she is the sole cause of the trouble.  Marriage is a two way street.  both parties are responsible for it's health.  I don't think we  can ever really understand what happens in others marriages and what part each play in it's breakdown.  At the least, it appears that the ex has been unaware of her deteriorating mental condition.

why is that?  What he a distant and cold husband?  You really have no way of knowing.  No matter how he appears to you , that is the face he is showing you.

So I would stop seeing him. 

I would continue to invite kids over as per the usual routine

If he has the kids at the time, just ask him to drop them off.

I would not invite him to family camping trips, the kids can come alone with your kids.

I would keep the door open for her and recognise that mental health is a long road and it can take a long time to recognize need especially if in a bad relationship.

If down the road he gets full custody of the kids, not an easy thing to do, then I would continue to see them and her ad respectfully keep a bit of distance with him.

I think I more line-up with lastpointe on this one re: kids, brother-in-law, and sis.  Personally, I would invite and welcome the kids at all times.  Personally, I would not invite the brother-in-law and partner on camping trips or to other social occasions unless absolutely necessary.  Personally, I would try and have some kind of relationship with my sis - with boundaries of course, which would be well spelled out. 

Hi DaisyJane,

When you are done.

You set the boundaries about what you will accept and what you wont accept.  Her being family does not mean that you cannot have boundaries.  It means you get to relax them for her, if you choose.  You are under no obligation to relax your boundaries.

You probably feel that way because that is what she is trying to do.  Note that she draws a boundary when she claims you are "her" sister.  She is not claiming family bond so much as staking out claim on a possession.  You are "hers."  I suspect that is the issue more than any relationship.

Your sister is perfect within reason to state what her boundaries are.

Your sister is out of bounds when she attempts to dictate what your boundaries must be.

Ultimately if your sister makes an ultimatum she has to live with the consequences.  Which is not to say that she will not try to make you pay for your choice.  It is to say that people who make threats don't care about the person they threaten beyond their ability to use the person they threaten.

Not an unreasonable preference.  In fact, I would consider it to be perfectly reasonable and sensible.

As with others the swing in mood and behaviours raise flags and wave them madly.

Grace and peace to you.

John

DaisyJane,

Re-reading the topic title, "When do I decide a family relationship is no longer healthy", struck me. It sounds as if you have already decided it is not healthy.

Whether or not someone maintains contact with a sibling's ex or a child's ex depends on many things.

What is the emotional maturity level of those involved? I doubt high school kids are equipped to handle it.

How did it end? If it was amicable it differs than if it was hostile. If the ex cheated it differs than if the sibling did.

Are there ground-rules and does everyone know they exist? Example: is "talking about" or sharing information off limits?

There are those who do it without problems and those who do so with problems and those who would not consider it.

My wife and her family is friendly with her sister's ex. They were together 20+ years and had a child. There was a meaningful relationship that was built there. It was openly communicated. The sister understands that and there was also no divorce hostility. He speaks to her parents on the phone. He goes fishing and camping with one of the siblings and family.

I maintain a relationship with my ex's and their families. My wife with some of her ex's and their families. It is not uncommon in the LGBT community. If it ends with as much respect, love and gentleness as it began with, why not?

Let's say your sister may have very good reasons to objecting to a continued relationship with her ex, but IMO it is no excuse for bad behaviour (harassing folks at work). She can use it as an excuse though, deflecting. For some, it is important that they cannot be blamed or seen to be adding to it or "making" her act this way. For others, they will feel she owns her own behaviours and she could civilly discuss how it makes her feel, etc... (that is where I am)

Each person's boundaries, tolerances and abilities differs in dealing with this type of thing - so too will their bottom lines differ. Some will get therapy to improve/work on a relationship, others will get therapy to resolve things in themselves even it it means ending the relationship, some will not think it is worth the effort... some will threaten to end it and some will and some will be stuck unable to end it or manage it....

If I look at my sister's addiction, my mom could never cease all contact. It is not who she is. It is senseless in an intervention or discussion to state that she would. My mom did, however, learn to not enable or fall into the traps. I could say my bottom line was "not having contact" with love. It is who I am. My brother brings his sibling rivalry into any discussion of my sister. He detaches out of anger, etc. My step-dad brings favouritism and enabling. Each person is who they are. Some are more healthy and some are not....

With my mom's mental illness, some could separate the behaviour and illness from the person. Others could not. We each arrive with the tools, gifts, abilities, emotions, experiences... that we have to bring with us.

That said, even with mental illness, one can have boundaries. One can know that with addiction or mental illness that THEY do not abide boundaries, and that YOU have to have your own. LBmuskoka spoke about her boundaries, which become her child's, even if they seem not like what someone else's would be. It translates to "if you want to speak to me you will... or else I will walk away".

I recall being about 14 and telling my mom she did not "act this way" with everyone and she was not incompetent if she could CHOOSE when and where to "act up".

I would say you already know it is not healthy. Now, you have to figure out what to do and how. I would say you have to know who you are and what you want, what you are able to live with and that YOU are healthy and acting out of that place.  

I wish you the best in navigating it.

I Agree with you seeking counselling for coping strategies when you are will your sister. I also think that you should limit visits with her as well until you have the strategies you need.

Oh we've had squabbles in our family before, nothing quite what you're describing, but if my sister were acting like this (or one of my children), there is no way in hell I would "let go".  I would be in her face telling her I love her everyday. I really believe this is the time that we have to step up to the plate and tell them that. I really, really, really believe that love is powerful! To me, she needs help, and that's what families are for. Distancing oneself just because she has major problems, is IMO, exactly what I wouldn't do.....maybe I'd have to "tag" another member of the family when I was weary, but for sure, I'd get the whole family in her face and her problem out in the open, in order to make no bones about the fact we all know she's in trouble.

About the brother in law, he sounds nice, he is sure to understand that he can survive awhile without the attention. I think being involved with him right now just compounds her feelings of isolation from the family and it sounds like she's found a guy that is contributing to the isolation. As for the kids, it sounds like the ex has to keep a close watch on that situation, he's the father.

Anyway, that's what I would do, for what it's worth......I'm not in your shoes and bottom line is you do what you feel is right for you! It's a tough one.

I agree with this position,100 percent.  And I think the advice to distance the Dad is wise, but I disagree with distancing him completely.  You are not your sister's marriage, nor her present health state.  My dad had four wives (the first was my mom), my mom - two husbands.    I am the one who has enforced that we can all handle it.  In fact, the adults never handled it and now are all proud when they have had a conversation with each other.   If KIDS can handle the freakin adults behaviour and relationships, why are adults so immature at handling what they thoroughly expect the children to suck up!!!!  I ask this as a child of multi-divorce.

I also agree to attach to your sister and this will bring in its natural boundries, not ones you have to enforce.  When you call your sister for 20 minutes a day for example, the boundries are clearly around that 20 minute time period - if that is the time that you can afford.  As I said earlier, it would be great to move forward on something that your sister has as a unique talent or gift.

I don't think your sister needs her face washed in it, but I do think that you get to treat the ex brother-in-law with the complete respect he deserves as the father of your sister's children and someone who loves those kids to his soul.  "Goodbye" is a false position, mean, antiquated and useless.

Such a difficult situation DaisyJane - I feel for you and your sister, and all the family.   It is a quandry indeed to figure out the best road to take at present - such a morass of mixed emotions.   Such decisions are not easily arrived at for sure, nor do they need to be permanent in nature. 

Here's a website that might be helpful to you - The High Conflict Institute - they have some great articles on parenting & divorce in such situations.   My own sister-in-law also has (not officially diagnosed) mental health issues & divorce tipped a balance for her in the worst ways.  I found some of the wisdom on this site to be helpful to me, in staying connected with their kids, for what it's worth.   http://www.highconflictinstitute.com/

I do hope you will maintain connection with those kids.  My nephews (now 20. 18 & 16) love coming to visit - although it hasn't always been so - because we all sit together as a family & share stories & laugh etc. - that safe and 'normal' situation that is lacking in their own home with their mom.

Just checking back in.  Interesting site, Carolla. Thanks

So....regarding loving your sister & being in her face, etc.  I get that some people feel that this is reasonable.  I can also state, without question, that there are times when it is impossible.   You will know what is right, daisyjane....and odds are, knowing you, you will have tried multiple avenues before you say "enough".

For me, it was the safety of my kids and self...and that we needed time to figure out how to be safe.

For me, it was when I have family old enough and can manage the other stuff, and there are less people potentially hurt...or the cost of not accepting the risk was too much,t hen I moved on.

I do regret that we did not sustain the relationship with my brother-in-law.  He had been part of our lives and been a wonderful person in our lives.  We are lucky in that we do see him, and we value those times.  Anyhow, again, i am sure you will do what is right for you on this day at this time.

Thanks for that Pinga. 

I have struggled with the idea that I should stay more connected with my sister.  I guess I feel that I have tried that route for much of the past three years and this thread is a result of my reaching a point that I am not sure I can do that any longer.  I have tried the "supportive" approach.  I have called her, listened to her, emailed her, sent her flowers, included her in vacations, offered her emotional and practical support and so on. I have have paid for summer camps for her kids and paid for her holidays. The decision to pull back has emerged from the awareness that throughout all of those encounters if I wasn't playing her game, her way, then I was going to get emotionally and verbally abused and openly manipulated and bullied.

Throughout these last three years it has quickly emerged that we will primarily see the kids if we remain connected to her ex.   I see the kids when they are with my sister only when she wants me to take them from her so she can go do something or when she has to work and has not arranged child care. (i.e. during school holidays).  The kids tend to spend several weeks at my place during the summer which is fine.  The kids have also asked to spend time with us when they are with their dad which was a strong factor in our decision to continue to include him. 

I honestly feel that my sister has no interest in a friendship or relationship with me beyond what it gets her.  She wants me to provide childcare when it suits her and she wants a relationship with me so that she can lay claim to "it" and thus deny her ex. We are no more than chattel to her in an attempt to deny her ex something he appreciates. Mostly I feel used.  Over the last three years she has done nothing to suggest she cares about my family or me or is remotely interested in how I feel.  She only calls when she wants something and unless I am pandering to her agenda her emails and phone calls quickly become abusive. She displays no sensitivity to any situation I might be experiencing (i.e. if specialson is in hospital or ill).

I personally find the relationship exhausting and draining.  I feel used, bullied or blackmailed during most encounters. I never know which version of her I am going to get when I do talk/email/text her. I feel like I have tried the supportive route and I am now approaching burnout, something I don't feel I can afford within the context of my life.  I feel, somewhat selfishly, that I need to put boundaries on this relationship, at least for the moment.  I have asked myself if I am okay with the notion of not having a relationship with my sister and I am beginning to reach a place where I can say "yes" to that. I think that is significant when you consider at one point we were close.  I was sad for a long time about that loss, now I am just tired and fed-up.

Pinga....I wouldn't mind the name of your counsellor since we share similar geography (perhaps a private message).  Thanks.

Thanks Carolla.  I will check out the site.

DaisyJane, I actually did it all via phone.  She was out west, but had expertise in the area that we felt was a match.:  borderline personality disorder

Ah. Thanks.  We have a counsellor we have worked with in the past which I have toyed with seeing again to re-visit this issue.  I had a few appointments with him about a year ago to explore this matter with my sister..... and specialhubby and I did some grief work with him following specialson's diagnoses.  We have had an ongoing relationship with him (on and off over the years) so I could always go back there.

DaisyJane ... you're a thoughtful caring person IMO, and have exhaustively tried to work things out ... it seems you do clearly recognize that.  Sometimes tho, nothing brings about the desired result.  Most important  is to satisfy yourself that you have done what is possible at this point, and feel able to live with the decision you make, difficult as it is.  Then let things - and yoursefl -  rest a bit.  May you find some peace soon.

I feel for you. I had a very close friend for 10 years, and while his mental health had nevr been great, it became worse. I really loved and still love this guy (platonically). I had a hard time deciding what I should do. I had lost so many other important relationships to death that I did not want to let go of the hope he would get better and return to treating me and others in a better way.  Where there is life there is hope, I thought to myself 

I realised that what had (and is) causing me trouble was the loss of his friendship, and actual had just turned into an illusion of friendship. SO before I could let go, and move on I had to essentially grieve my loss of what he was and what he could have been.    Accepting the loss is sad,but it is allowing me to move on.

Now I see that loosing someone to mental illness, is challenging in different ways than when loosing someone to death from AIDS or cancer. It's harder because there is no funeral or other ritual, and the person is still around, to remind me of my loss and keep alive my hope of better days to come.   But those days to come, are not likely to, and if they do, he will be a different person than the one I thought I knew anyway.

So I think doing some work on loss and grief was a good idea for me, and could be for you as well.

Daisy Jane-Follow your heart and do what is best for you!

The rest of us only know part of the story.

You are wise and caring and will do what is needed.

Wishing you peace.

I did find my brother exhausting and years of it really deranged my family, DaisyJane, so I can relate to that issue.  

Kids are still  first.  It really does sound like that they may need a safer place to live. Dunno.  I am surprised that the Dad hasn`t asked for full custody already, unless, he too wants his freedom.  Many men will pass the responsibility on to their girlfriends, but it doesn`t sound like he is that type, is he . . .

I didn`t realize that it had been going on for so long.  People who avoid therapy can`t possibly understand how rewarding all that work is. 

DaisyJane - Obviously you have worked long and hard at this relationship - and given it a lot of thought and prayer.  If you feel it is time to step back - to protect yourself and your family from further abuse - and to be able to continue to offer her kids a safe place - then that is undoubtedly right for you at this time.  

She will always be your sister.  That doesn't mean that you have to continue in a toxic relationship.   Maybe sometime things will change, and you two can reconnect.   In the meantime please take care of yourself.  You are a wonderful person. 

DaisyJane, I believe you have answered your question better than anyone.

Here is an approach I use when faced with such dilemmas.  When I read your words my response to you is to "take care of yourself, your children and partner".  If I had written those words myself, why wouldn't I take my own advice.  Sometimes stepping outside of ourselves is the only way to find ourselves.

The woman I was yesterday, introduced me to the woman I am today; which makes me very excited about meeting the woman I will become tomorrow.
       Poetic Evolution
 

DaisyJane,

You mentioned asking yourself, "am I okay with the notion of not having a relationship" and the ability to say "yes".

For me, that is where a counselling led. Not to be the being able to say "yes", we can get there from anger, frustration, desperation... but to be able to say it without repercussion to me (guilt, shame, anger...).  

It was all at a head. The acknowledgment of mental health issues, the addiction, the bottom lines... yes, even the removal of her kids. I knew she would hate me. I had to be ok with that knowing that I still I loved her, but could not be involved any more and that I acted out of love and concern, not all those other emotions.

I do not know you or your sister. Her version may be very different. All that anyone can do is focus on is how you say YOU feel.

What I read is that you feel you have tried and given your best, and you feel that in return for your efforts you feel you have been used and exploited. I read that you feel that when you do not try hard enough to suit her you are manipulated and/or abused.

What I want to focus on is one line

"I feel, somewhat selfishly, that I need to put boundaries on this relationship, at least for the moment."

How, or why, do you feel it is selfish to say "no" to what you feel is abuse, manipulation, bullying, blackmail, exploitation.....? Do you think it is selfish to have boundaries?

DaisyJane, I think it's ok to cut her out of your life for now. It sounds really dreadful. People have to do that sometimes, be it with siblings or parents. Her kids are lucky to have you for their aunt, a good female role model.

 I would say you are done...try to keep her at hands length...from what you posted...she needs to learn disipline in her life..but you cannot give this to her..she has to find it herself...pray for her..bless her life...and ask God to some day give you the time, when she will accept proper correction done in love..Prayers Work...never give up praying for her..when the spirit calls you will know...and you have to set boudries..for family get togethers or social gathering..etc..

Dearest Lord ...Bring this family together in Your Love..amen..

DaisyJane, just thinking of you as you approach the holiday season.  It has its own challenges regarding inviting or not inviting, and wonderment regarding their behavour. 

Hope you are doing well and that you have figured out how to make it work that is good for you and your family.

Thinking of all those who have this on their plate during this season. Truth be told, the number is large....

Instead of a Blue Christmas service (which to many folks sounds like you need to be greiving or depressed or dreading Christmas) I liked the sound of a local church offering a "Tidings of Comfort" service.

I have much of this sort of thing going on in my family. Not exactly the same, but family conflict anyway. Every year--and this year is particularly frought with it. I am at odds as to what to do this Christmas. My husband and I might have a potluck with just a few friends who also aren't going to their relatives' for Christmas. He isn't nearly nastaligiac about Christmas as I am, coming from another country and not having not grown up with the same traditions--he doesn't get all gushy about twinkling lights and Christmas carols or have a favourite baked goodie that someone has made at Christmas since he was a kid. It's not that he doesn't enjoy it, he just doesn't miss it the same. He doesn't have the same emotional attachments to it --which I think is probably a good thing. And, truth be told, I am sure would likely be relieved to not feel any pressure to spend it with his inlaws just because it's the time of year--it's not the "Most Wonderful Time of the Year" that many expect it to be or hope it to be--which I know gets a lot of people down--this time of year can be a real emotional circus with my family--frought with extra pressure to make it into something extra special--and it triggers some emotions for me too. I don't want to feel forced, anymore, either to be there and make nice when there are large elephants in the room. I think it's okay to make new traditions and set boundaries.

I also like the idea of a "Tidings of Comfort" Christmas service.

Hi DaisyJane;

Sisters are not replaceable.

I would agree with the others in their guess that she may have a problem such as bipolar.

If I was in your position I would try to help her get help.

I would also respect her wishes that you do not invite her ex over. She's your sister. The break up of a relationship is painful for anyone there. Having her ex there is a reminder for her.

As far as your question "when am I done?". You are done when you want to be done. You are done when you need to be done. My personal opinion is you never give up on family. You are by no means obligated to share that opinion. Unfortunately, if you do share that opinion you will need to set some very clear bounderies and enforce them. Not giving up on family does not mean that you let them use you or abuse you.

Just my 2 cents.