crazyheart

Welllllllllllll, if God is Order, the the antiChrist is Chaos.  Two halves of the whole.

IT

Russ

or is it an entity, a thing or a state?

I don't think it can be an entity or thing, anymore than God is a physical presence.  Must be a state.  Perhaps Nevada?

IT

Russ

Here's a passage from scripture:

"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

Whoa, George, there must be a lot of anti Christs around and on this board.

Sanjaya Malakar.

There is the night sky and then there is the Vanilla Sky; which is dark and which is light and do they look different from the other side of the event horizon? Ask John Glenn about the spiritual experience of seeing the whole earth when emerging from behind the moon!

Is that spooky or just a spiritual thought?

I'm not sure, but the vanilla sky sure does sound delicious.

Didn't like "Vanilla Sky" but the vision is spiritual.

IT

Russ

Hello crazyheart .......God bless you......

I believe the antichrist is the Fear in the People who

want to get to know God......this fear can be real if we

do not have Reverence for the Lord....who has already defeated

the enemy.....and through Him has given us the wisdom and power

to keep the antichrist  at Bay...................

Praise the Lord for His Great Power

IJL:bg

LMAO!

"We believe Christ to be our all-sufficient saviour, and Satan to be our biggest adversary, as the world nears its cataclysmic end," this is part of the Seventh Day Adventist Creed, where believing in Satan is as important as believing in Christ, and where Satan is the "Anti-Christ." Other fundamentalist demominations believe similarly.

Metaphorically speaking, one could regard "Satan" as the ungodly in us, and "Christ" as the godly, and our lifetime a striving to become more godly and avoid the ungodly. But fundamentalists believe in Satan or the Anti-Christ as a real spirit who trys to tempt people away from God. Incongruously, they also regard becoming or being at one with God as Satanic.

That's why people like me were, not so long ago, roasted at the stake.  

What if god is chaos and the antichrist is order? That's how I see it anyway.

Are you kidding? Did you SEE all the chaos that Sanjaya Malakar created on American Idol?

Crazyheart,

I don't think the Anti-Christ is someone who would deny the existance of the trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), as much as he/she is someone who opposes them.

In my more realistic version, the anti-christ is not one person but the multitude of people who make a stand against the trinity.

And then there is the writer in me who thinks he is the son of Satan and a mortal woman he raped. He has the head of a goat and the lower half like a lion, not on four legs, just two. He is incapable of human speech, however he understands. He can only be commanded by Lilith. He eats raw meat and is a wreck of anger and muslce. The one way to defeat him? Trick him into thinking his mother is in danger and lead him into a trap.

Twisted no?

Shadow

If Christ is light ... is the anti Christ the shadow of ignorance that hangs over us as a pall of Rome?

Consider that Rome ordered the burning of all libraries ... humans of intelligence were a danger to brutal men ... guerrilla warfare you know ... the battle of mon ques (Mon; swell ... que; ancient icon of question). Does institutedPious religion allow question ... a Roman thingy?

Shakespeare: "Take it as you like it!"

But do it with some thought of the following consequences, or take your thoughts openly ... with some balance of care. It's a genteel realm the mind, sole complex of  ... my heavens! Disturb them and the reflection can be sour to your future.

I still say it's Sanjaya Malakar.

I'd say that Sanjaya is a likely candidate. I'd say that Obama is not.

Is it permissible for me to agree that Sanjaya Malakar is the anti-Christ, without actually having a belief in Christ?

Witch

Now that is almost a topic in itself.

Can you agree or disagree with something you believe, or don't believe, in?

Sort like the child that says they don't like something .  Have you tried it?  Uhh, no. 

IT

Russ

Yes but kids usually have the one answer you can't argue with.

"I havn't tried it, because I don't like it."

Witch

I give you special dispensation to believe even though you don't believe.

IT

Russ

Many thanks, your Grace.

No problem, put an extra schekel in the poor box.

IT

Russ

The answer is in your phrasing. "Who" takes us back to a worldview where human beings were the pawns of supernatural forces. Ghosts and demons and devil and trolls and anti-christs. All labels leading up to ol' whatsisname who used to say "the devil made me do it"

Interestingly, we say "anti-Christ" and not "anti-Jesus". "Christ" never was a person. "Jesus, the Christ" offered a message of transformation. An "anti-Christ" would be, in my opinion, someone who dismissed that message,

Evangelicals are the Anti-Christ.  They claim to spead Christ's message.  But rather than speading a message of love and acceptance, they preach one of judgement and intolerance.

Oh, wait a minute.  Maybe they are the whore of Babylon, riding the Republican Party beast?  Either way, they don't come off very well.

Hahaha well said Gilmore.

"There is no compulsion in religion!" -Muhammad Mustafa, Rasoolallah

I love the Babylonian whore reference xD

As-Salaamu Alaiykum

-Omni

Which is more confusing, the whore of desire itself ... or the light of gaining some understanding of where the "feeling" comes from? This could be projected into a black storm versus a white storm ... unknown power versus Vanilla Skye. The nature of fabrication and the supernatural power of magic: a lump of clay that can think ... if it chooses! Ankh, or perfect angst, perfect tense ... future?

What is born naturally ... desire to be fed, sheltered, etc. or that hatching out of awareness? Oh, the possibility of story and song ... running bare down bi the river and over head ... a little white dove! Now project that image to any time, space and situation you desire ... a pale image beside the Jordan with a flutter of feathers overhead: "This is my s'n!" Perhaps it is Muse, Moses in the mountains struck by the power of an chilling avalanche of chilling thought ... "Oh my God, what have I fallen into?" Enlightening the pas seans is a vile dirty journey to those who don't "wish" to make the journey as they don't like it. Have you tried it?

No, I don't like it!

Can you accept awareness? Mankind generally doesn't like the truth!

The voice of experience is grand ... no! Unable to make the journey! Could one project themselves into another's experience and feel their hopes and dreams through a story? Perhaps through a stretch of the imagination. Would that be a vision of thin spaces; seeing how things are going in the other shoe?

The cartoon SHOE takes on a deep meaning of the priveleged and the oppressed ... some really dead chicks and really frozen turkeys falling out of supernatural space ... the genteel imagination can do wonders if you can go there. It is too soft for some stones ... they just like to make ripples.

Did you know the ancient Polynesians navigated with only the wind directions and wave patterns on the water to guide? Now place yourself in the homer p'j'nn's eye of mind! Is like an add sense of awareness except for those without light plasma, a bloodied sense of what is around them? Yah got to wonder if this is just a joke so that we will wake up to the creations of man-made God versus a natural desire with a wee bit of light out of a shadowy realm of ... the sole? Tread lightly, it is a fragile space, a wee bit holy  ... cause high falutin' ideas have left it rather tattered!

Look at the chariot industry in America and the lack of leaders into the dark ... lots of fire coming from God knows where ... and who cares attitude ... as long as I get my dues. You will, it's in the cards, a quantum game, you just don't know the where and when of when the awareness strikes ... depending on your preparation ... will you be ready to follow blindly, or be able to assist the ongoing chores?

Will we learn from the chaos (babylon)of pain? Perhaps just a wee stir of light!

WaterBuoy

I think the answer is no, and that is the problem.  I think that you can intellectualize until the cows come home, I know the universe is energy, I accept the God of the singularity, it makes so much sense on the logical plane.  But until I have an "experience" similar to what Arminius talks about, I really haven't quite gotten it.   I can look through the thin space, but I can't penetrate it.

And I wonder if deep down here isn't a little bit, perhaps more than a little,  of this in me?  Real fear.  What is on the other side?  Will I like it?  Will I change?  What will I have to give up?  That step into space, trust me !!!!

IT

Russ

If the mind is genteel imaginary space ... perhaps you have hit the nail on the "head" ... onyx in old Hebrew terms! The windshield (window) of the soul? How much more metaphysical can ID get?

Is the mind another dimension from reality and the realm of God, a realm that we can't imagine ourselves being aware of?

Is this some kind of weird joke?

Perhaps, perhaps not!

Is stepping into space like an internal journey ... or a duality in that the internal reflection (echo, canon, veil of read whine) is also part of something bigger than the mortal self? Odd things in space!

WaterBouy, the mind seems to me to be much more mundane than that. 100 billion neurons electrocuting themselves and handing out chemicals to each other can seem a lot more metaphysical than it probably is. Far from genteel, the mind is very messy and chaotic. Most intances of forgetfulness are due to inability to access existing memories, not due to losing them. However, this chaos is also the reason for our creativity.

Sounds like my kids and food.

 My father - in -law is a big-time end times 'scholar'.  He feels the antichrist will come out of Turkey. One man's opinion.

trishcuit

Oh Lord, I scanned your post quickly and read END, TURKEY and was picturing him  looking up the backside of a cooked bird at Christmas.  Thinking how could the AntiChrist fit in there with the stuffing?

Sorry, sorry

IT

Russ

lol Russ, that's priceless.

trishcuit, that's funny that he thinks Turkey is where the anti-Christ will come out of. Why not Iraq, which was at one point Babylon, or Saudi Arabia, which is a very extreme Muslim nation. Turkey is very secularist and moderate. Is it because they have the Haiga Sophia?

Killer,

How do you interpret Haiga Sophia?

A question from the edge!

Haiga Sophia is a building.  Quite a famous and unique one.  Any film you've seen with anything to do with modern Turkey or mediveval Byzantium shows at least a glimpse of it:  from the World is Not Enough to any academic piece.

Are you asking how to interpret a building?

The Bible says:

WaterBouy, as Gilmore has pointed out, the Haiga Sophia is a building. It is in Istanbul, Turkey, which used to be Constantinople back when it was a part of the Holy Roman Empire. That was when the Haiga Sophia was built. It was a great Christian cathedral. When the Ottomans invaded the Holy Roman Empire, they took over Constantinople and turned the Haiga Sophia into a mosque. They even built minarets around it. I was just thinking that some resentful Christians may think that turning a cathedral into a mosque would be defilement.

I'm tempted to say 'my ex wife', but I would likely be censured for that, so I won't.  Although, I REALLY WANT TO!  Actually, there's so much competition for that position that we'll just have to wait and see ... if we live that long.

 I am not exactly sure WHY he thinks the Antichrist would come from Turkey (the country!).

 I am afraid to ask because it's one of those whispered family things: "Psst! Don't encourage him!" Otherwise my whole night is ruined.

After the Turks besieged and nearly conquered the city of Vienna about 400 years ago, "You Turk!" became the worst swear word in Christian Europe. Turks were blamed for all kinds of evil, and indeed were regared as the epitome of evil.

Modern day Turkey, of course, is the most liberal Islamic country, and about to join the EEC. The first Islamic country to do so.

I love Turks. My favaourite Islamic sect, the Mavlavi sect of Sufism, the so-called "whirling dervishes," was founded in Turkey.

When I needed a new waterpump for my old Massey, I found out that a made-in-Canada pump cost a lot more than a made-in-Turkey pump. Appearantly, some clever Turks, after having apprenticed as machinists in Germany, went back home and started building tractor parts as a cottage industry. Now I love those Turkish devils even more!  

Now that I've pried a definition from you on Haiga Sophia ... consider an interpretation: Haiga (haigiology) is an old word for saints/spirits and Sophia is justice  ... something that the physical being tends to hate in self-interest. Think of the raising of the Pillars of the Earth!

Is this a temple of bifurcated meaning ... a duality?

Now is that deism as opposed to theism on monotheism?

Whatever I think it is funny from inside this funny cover, a theatrical enigma from on high! Upper rheum?

Is the mind a spirit of light energy that resides on the resident of this space ... mostly water, a wee bit of cholesteral that can burn when desicated .. is this odd? Do the black and white powers beyond dance around such confusion of mankind?

Does the Father/Mother Paris/Perez have a larger house "beyond" ... which is myth? Now that's spacey eh ... another dimension! Is string theory moor than we can imagine in the weaving of a stroy of the soul?

Actually, I think sophia means wisdom.  I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Under pressure from the women's movement, there is now a change from "Anti" Christ to "Uncle" Christ and more politically correct: "Sibling of one of my parents" Christ.  (for anyone offended by this:  get over yourself.  Accept the fact that I'm just a jerk sometimes.).  Now to get serious, naming anyone as the Anti-Christ would be mere speculation without any scriptural, historical, or theological basis.  To me, it falls under the same category as 'date setting'.  I'm sure, during World War II, some people thought of Hitler as the Anti-Christ.  With so much evil afoot, there's just too much competition for the 'job'.

I know this for certain:  it's NOT Mick Jagger! 

If this thread was in politics I might say Bush or Harper.  I believe that they are two evil men.

Yeah, "sophia" means wisdom. But WaterBouy, if your translation of "haiga" is correct, then it would mean it's called the "Wisdom of Saints", which makes sense. I don't get the rest of what you're trying to say either though.

I think Waterbouy is right in a sense.  I believe that haiga is used in that Greek Orthodox names for saints (eg. "Haiga [Peter in Greek]" for St. Peter).  However, I think the word is more general than our word "saint".  I think it means something more like our word "holy" or "sacred".

I recall my History of Byzantium professor calling the building (which he discussed with great enthusiasm) both "Haiga Sophia" and "San Sophia" and then giving his translation: "the Church of the Sacred Wisdom".  The professor was about as old as the building, and well respected.  So, I think we can trust him.

I still do not understand Waterbouy's point.