We have a very  nice tree. We all like it. Nobody  splits hairs over it.  

IMO it shouldn't be in a church, because it's not only a pagan symbol, but it would get pine needles all over the floor, and it is only confirming the marriage of commercialism, paganism, and christianity...Which I think should be seperated IMO.

This is all my opinion (in case you didn't know lol).

As-Salaamu Alaiykum,

-Omni

Why wouldn't we have a tree in church - It is Christmas, you know and I am sure Witch wouldn't care LOL.I have never heard an objection but there is always someone who  gets their knickers in a knot.

We love our tree too Trish.  I was also puzzled CH -  I'd never before heard such thoughts, but it made me curious.  I hope others will also respond.

Omni - really?  Pine needles on the floor?  Are you working part time as a church custodian    ?

I keep your best interests at heart ;)

As-Salaamu Alaiykum

-Omni

lol, we have 4 trees

In the sanctuary, front & centre, with beautiful white ornaments of doves, and such.

In both of the entrances, a mission & outreach tree, with a request for it to be filled with mittens, gloves, hats, socks, disposable razors, toiletries for our local shelter

In the hall where we have coffee, and where people come for our apple dumplings on sat morning at market, our family tree.. This one is new, with ornaments made out of that funky foam frames in the shapes of penguins, wreaths, snowmen.. with pictures from our photo directory.

so..yes, we have trees...

The Christmas Tree is a German tradition, which spread from there to Britain and throughout the world. The Winter Solstice has been celebrated with light displays of all kinds since time immemorial. Jesus' birthday was arbitrarily pegged at the Winter Solstice in order to Christianize this important Pagan holiday.

I have seen Christmas trees in many churches over the season of Advent and I have never heard anyone object to it.

I have seen trees decorated with the Jesse symbols as well as trees decorated with Christian symbols.

I have seen trees decorated with items made by the children in Sunday School

Having said the above perhaps we should find out more about whether or not people do agree or disagree with this practice.

I'm for it as long as it is placed near the front or off to the side and not blocking anyone's view of the front of the sanctuary.

Let's ask Witch if they have a crucifix on display where he worships. 

I don't particularly mind that there is a tree in my church at Christmas, but with its ties to the commercialism of the Holdiay, perhaps I should.  I guess that most people in the Church see it as a Christmas symbol (with an angel or star on the top) so perhaps it doesn't matter. 

I can't imagine any UCCers, or even most mainstream Canadian denominations, being against Christmas trees in the sanctuary. However, I would have to say that I agree with the anonymous lady, Fromm and Omni - they are technically inappropriate. As Arminius stated, they are a result of Christmas being arbitrarily placed at the winter solstice.

Strangely, though, I would encourage a tree in the sanctuary, as I enjoy it in my living room, too. But maybe we should be talking about it, understanding where it comes from, and using it to remind us of all that stands in the way (such as commericalism) of our focus on Christ during Christmas.

It's good to use these symbols to invoke the spirit of Christmas. But we must be sure we're not worshipping the symbols.

A great topic.

Omni

I agree 100%.  No trees.  Bah Humbug 

Why not ???

IT

Russ

Of course in the United Church,there is always the debate about Advent and Christmas. In the 4 weeks preceding Christmas we should be more pensive focussing on "expectant waiting". So there are some churches that gradually bring in the tree and lights  and  no Christmas carols. But I have seem some congregations revolt over this. In most cases they want all the Christmas Trappings through the Advent Season.It caused such a stir in one church that as soon as the minister was called elsewhere, the congregation lit everything in sight on Advent 1. Obviously, he had the control while there and I wonder if it was worth all the havoc that his decision caused?

There isn't presently, not because it's wrong for us, but only because the crucifix holds no meaning for us.

There is a branch of Wicca known as Christo-Wiccan, which is a syncretic religion combining Christianity and Wicca. I don't really understand it myself, but then it's not really up to me. However, if a Christian Witch was to attend one of our services and wished to place a crucifix on the altar, we would certainly do so.

We have a tree at the front of the church as it is currently part of the celebrated traditions held dear by the people gathering there.  At other points in time it was not and so there wasn't a tree...cms

No problem with Christmas trees in church but please only artificial ones for two reasons:

1.  Some (like me) are allergic to real trees and

2.  real trees are a fire hazard

We have a gorgeous tree right up on the chancel, decorated for Advent in blue and silver.

When I was a kid (Anglican) there was never a tree in church.  I see no real problem with them though.  I think they should be artificial because of allergies, and maybe the decorations should tend to Christian themes and offerings for the disadvantaged.

We have a Christmas tree in our church. It is quite a beautiful thing. Decorated with gold coloured lights, large gold ornaments, burgandy ribbons, etc.

On Sunday I went to a local United Church. They had a couple of trees too.

It may have originally been a Pagan tradition but it was adopted by Christianity as well so I don't see the harm. Last time I checked, other cultures can adopt themes from eachother. Look at romantic architecture.

I would prefer an artificial tree for the reasons everyone else has put. In my house we put up an artificial tree. It's cheaper, cleaner, more convenient and it saves a tree every year.

We have one in church. People like it. To me, it's pretty much hogtied to the whole commercial mania thing, but I'm not going to make a deal out of it: if I want to take the edge off my joy, there are bigger issues I could be fretting over in the world at the moment.

And if you REALLY want to strip Christianity bare of every trace of paganism, you'll not find much left. And you'd make a more gigantic, cold-hearted, iconoclastic swine of yourself than even Oliver Cromwell did, and he had his army along to help.

Actually, kr, artificial trees are much worse for the environment than real trees, which can be easily composted.

We have often gone out and cut down a tree - we're country dwellers!

After Christmas the tree went out on the deck and held food for the birds.  Eventually it was put in the stove with other firewood. 

Why not have a tree? It's pretty. Tell that old lady she can have a go at taking down herself if she doesn't like it.

Shadow

Who said she was "old"?

Ah. Touche. My bad, i just assumed that those people who are cranky about said are always old. Here, i'll refraise that:

Tell that woman who may possibly be between the ages of 1 and 100 that she can have a go at taking down herself if she doesn't like it.

Shadow

Why would she take herself down?

Nobody - but Mike remember that shadow is 'young' so that makes anybody called a 'lady' old I guess!

CAROL!!! are you suggesting that all young women are incapable of ladylike behaviour? Or that, as a "young" person, Shadow would be incapable of recognising it? This is shocking, it really is.

The crucifix is way older than the Christian religion. It's a symbol that's been adopted from history. Maybe they should get rid of those also?

An Anhk and a Crucifix are two diferent things.  And  Crucifix is specifically christian, a crucifix is actually officially a cross withe Jesus across it.  Anything less than that is a simple Crux (cross).

Sorry to nit-pick

As-Salaamu Alaiykum

-Omni

Well it's not like we buy a new tree every year. The one we put up this year is the first artificial tree we've ever bought and that was at least a decade ago. Unless we're the only family in Canada that reuses our trees I don't see how artificial trees can be much worse.

*wry smile*

If we look back far enough, many of our beloved Christian traditions and symbols have 'pagan' roots.

Including the whole of Christmas day.

Christ's peace - r

Thanks Omni. 

That's why I specified crucifix and not cross.

You've never heard anyone be told to come down off their cross?  Seems appropriate in this case. :)

kr - no, you misunderstand. Reusing a fake tree 20 times has more environmental impact than using 20 real trees. And most people do buy new artificial trees in that period of time. (I'm not exactly sure where the balance is - maybe every 50 years? There's a lot of plastic in those fake trees)

Where I live, we can buy a huge real tree for $30. When I lived in NS, it was even cheaper, especially if you went to a "hunt your own tree" farm. (No, not stealing it from the woods, a U-Cut)

There are lots of good reasons to buy artificial - allergies, the ability to put it up early and take it down late, less mess... but not environmental impact.

Hi GadZooks, 

Tree farmers would tell us that Christmas trees are no different from any other crop.  And they also make the argument that poor quality land (not viable for food crops) can be used to grow Christmas trees. 

When we switched to fake it was because trees got drier and drier each year. By Christmas Day, I was afraid to put on the lights. Better safe than  sorry.

My church has a huuuge 20' tree (at least!) in the sanctuary.  It's real and comes from a local garden centre.  It smells divine and is decorated all over in gold and white handmade Christian symbols and ornaments - beaded trinity knots, alphas and omegas, crosses, doves, halos, and a beautiful beaded golden crown at the top.  The congregation made the ornaments about 20 years ago - I must have been 5 or 6, but I remember it.   This year, I made sure the lights put on it were all LEDs, which is much better for energy usage and lessens the chance of fire hazard. 

I haven't heard any complains about allergies yet, and I know the majority of the congregation would miss the tree fiercely if it were to be taken down.  We put it up right before the first advent Sunday, and it glitters and gleams in its golden glory all the way until Epiphany.  The church wouldn't feel the same without it.

(As for real tree vs. fake tree, there was a thread last year on it, if you're interested in digging through archives.  I think it was in Global Issues or Social.  The best argument I heard about buying real trees was that for every one sold, they have to plant three.  Any reason to make someone plant three trees is good for me.)

When I was a kid we always had real trees.  I love the smell of real trees.  However, as an adult, all I care about is that a fake tree is easy to put away, easy to put up, has pre-strung lights, and probably won't burn down the house.  I have never assumed it was better for the environment, because it certainly isn't.  Thinking it is is like thinking running computers and other energy drain divices all day is better than using books, because it saves on (recyclable) paper.  I'd like to see a study of how much pollution has been created powering the computers that are nearly permanantly on in office buildings where those in charge think not printing (and then recycling) memos cleans the environment.

Sure we don't kill a tree every year, but have you seen the ocean lately?  We'll be stuck with those "trees" for hundreds of thousands of years.

Also, by day 20 every time you brush up against the tree you need to get out a vaccuum cleaner to clean up the needles. 

One tree we got ( the last one) was beatiful until we opened it and it was brown all up the middle.I presume that is because they are cut down in September/October. We took it back but the second one wasn't much better. What a mess and what a fire hazzard. They don't even have to be lit to combust, I understand.

We cut our own tree every year at a tree farm. It gives us a beutifully fresh tree and little fire hazard, and it allows us to hold a ritual of thanks at the same time.

Witch

Plus it gives a great excuse for the family to do somehing together, and THEN the real excuse of having to get a hot chocolate to warm up.  Yumm.

IT

Russ

I am so happy for all of you that can find healthy green trees. Maybe this just a saskatchewan thing,

Have faith crazyheart, I'm sure there's a tree in Saskabush.... somehwere... somehow...

As flat as the place is, should be able to see it from 100km away.

IT

Russ

ROTFLMAO

Thanks CH, we get a freshly cut tree every year. We go to power lines where the Lions Club manage and prune the trees during the summer and sell them at Christmas. This year we noticed that same old guy has cut down our tree for the last three years.

We always have a tree in our church.  I love having things in our sanctury that includes pagan symbols.  I don't know if others recognize them but it gives me joy to see the world religions surround me.  E 

Fine. Let's just say then that it "saves a tree every year" in the economic sense.