Some definitions of "worship" do not involve supplication before an almighty deity.  If you want to entirely avoid any singing or acts of thanksgiving you might be hard-pressed, and would probably have to start something on your own.  Many people in church these days (not all, maybe not even most) perceive worship not as something demanded by God to appease Him, but a natural feeling of awe and thanksgiving that people come together to celebrate.  There are better ways of putting it, for instance Spinoza looked at worship as the "intellectual love of God".  Charles Hartshorne described it once as "a consciously unitary response to life."  (These are the only two references in books I have handy)  In a technical sense, the word "worship" often refers to the elements of a service of worship; for instance, the prayers, hymns, scripture readings and sacraments.

So to sum up this meandering post, you can indeed worship without "worshipping".  That is, without waving your hands to a chorus of "Praise Jesus" while a band plays some reverent mood music.

I agree with Nighthawk there are many ways to worship. Sometimes I go for a walk in God's wonderful creation, other times I listen to quiet music and other times I go to church to connect with my Church family. I also have trouble with the, to me, over enthusiasm of some churches. I choose not to attend them.

    Blessings Musicsooths

This isn't exactly what you asked (you asked about faith) but -

I think you can have a relationship with God without going to a church. In fact I think many now follow this route.

You can worship with some friends over at your house.

You can travel to a beautiful, peaceful spot and worship.

I'm with you Toragirl.  I began leaving my parents church when I was 15.  I always wondered what value God saw in people singing "Worship Him, worship Him, worship Him" or "Come let us Worship the Lord" blah, blah, blah.  It seems that people writing Christian music for the last 50 years think that the only way to worship is to say the word "worship".

My view is that everything we do is worshipping something.  I understand that the word "worship" is connected to the word "worth".  Essentially, by our actions, we display what we think is worthwhile.  We either worship families, ourselves, our jobs, our workout programs, etc.  By how we spend our time, we worship.  I think we worship the Numinous when we demonstrate the worthiness of all the world:  the worthiness of our family, friends, neighbours and strangers, of animals, of the environment, etc.

I think it is possible to find the type of intellectual worship that you talk about--but not at most churches.  I wonder if looking into the Quakers would get you to where you want to be.  Again, how the h@!! do I make new paragraphs??

Faith is about trust. You don't have to worship the things you trust.

In all sincerity, a good percentage of those who like to yell Praise Jesus would tell you that the United Church of Canada or similar churches such as the United Methodist in the US, would be the place to go where there's "no worship."     

Now, it needs to be said that the UCCan is an eclectic kind of place and I'm sure you can find a few where "Praising Jesus" goes on. But in the majority that I've been in over the years there's singing, there's fellowship, there's communion on occasion, and there is certainly a relationship with God. But there's very little of the stuff you want to avoid.     

David

Hello Toragirl......God bless you.....

I believe that it takes faith in God to begin the process of worship.....first we must believe He does exist.....next we must by faith...believe He loves us and wants what is best for us...and it is possible to have a personal relationship with Him...that the bible is the Divine word of God....and as a Christian .....Our Lord Jesus died on the Cross for us for many reasons.....He died so we can be forgiven for all our sins......He died, was buried and rose and now alive in Heaven..He died so we may have eternal life....the First one to go through death for us ....so we may also pass through the shadow of death....He defeated the enemy and took the power away from him at the Cross......there are so many reasons to worship the Lord....it would take me all day to list them..

With the success I have had in prayers, using the Lords name, blood, word and blessings...it has increase my faith greatly.....and I want to worship Him in Love and Faith...and worship shows in most of my postings.....to want to worship God I believe we have to get to know Him personally.....Praise the Lord God...amen and amen....

IJL:bg

Worship wells up from within as a faith response to God and his glory.  I no longer attend church, although I worship at various times throughout the day when I celebrate God's presence in my life.  As a former minister in another denomination and with an earned doctorate in religious studies, I no longer seek some dead gathering of people who couldn't find Genesis with both hands and a diagram.   I can worship God any time, any where, and under any circumstances without congregational or denominational politics.  My worship is an outward expression of my faith.  If you have faith, sometimes you can't hold it in.  Faith means getting over ourselves and focussing on God.  Worship will follow.

Hi toragirl - welcome to the cafe

I think I have a different take on this.  I too wonder about the value of 'worshipping' -it may seem that GOd doesn't give 2 hoots about it.

I also second the comment that the UCC is fairly barren of "Praise Jesus!!" type worship (thank GOD!) (not my thing). 

Worship for me becomes a chance to share the experience of the Divine- either through touching prayer, thought, music, and other experience.  Some of it is appreciating that we all came together today because we know that something about our God experience is on the right track.  It is celebrating community that comes from God, and our thanks is a communal thanks.

As well, sharing that positive energy just builds more of it, and that in turn builds the Spirit of God. 

The trick is to find a community that inspires you (most of the time - no one is perfect) and jump in.

Depenfs how you define worship.  I don't think what happens in churches is the only or best form of appreciating the gifts of God and giving thanks for them. 

Kay

Hi toragirl:

We can have faith without formal worship, but we can't have worship without faith.

If traditional worship does not agree with you, and you would like to worship in community, try alternative group worship like meditation, musical worship, nature worship, etc.

Although I do go to church, my favourite type of worship is meditative contemplation out alone in nature.

-Arminius

Thanks to many for the comments. I wanted to clarify a little, because I think my "praise Jesus" comment may have thrown a few people off. It's difficult to put into words, but I think because I believe in God more as life energy rather than an (omniscient!) entity who listens and responds, I find myself cut off from most formal church (or many other temples!) experiences.  Because I think that God set the universe in motion, and gave the capacity for perfection to all of us, I don't believe that praying to Him, singing to Him, etc. is very helpful.   I think that praying is helpful (it creates peace in your mind) and I certainly meditate and try to appreciate the world....

maybe I'm meant to be Buddhist!

PS> \Gilmore, I agree, Unitarian or Quaker seem to be the denominations with the most pull to my own comfort, and each has a congregation in walking distance, so maybe that is saying something.

Hi everyone,

I haven't attended church for a long time. (Lack of a minister for one thing) Our former minister mentioned once that it was not necessary to go to church to be a believer and that seems to be where I am headed. But.... is this a cop out? It is certainly easier but I am not sure if faith is supposed to be too easy. Are we supposed to sacrifice something, even if it is only time?

Sorry if this was posted twice!

In my opinion (a Muslim opinion)  every good deed you do, every bit of help you give, every time you pray, all of that is worship.  You need not be standing up singing God's praise with a congregation.

Assalaam Alaiykum

-Omni

When I was a teenager WAAAAAY back in the 1960's (yes, I'm THAT old), one neighbouring church's youth group help a 'worship' service without any mention of faith; including mention of the Name of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.  When I asked one of them who they were worshipping and how can you have a worship service without an object of worship, she made some derogatory remark and walked away.  I've seen people come to church services with proper liturgy and the minister reminding the congregation, from the call to worship to the benediction, that they are there to worship God; yet these people seemed more interested in worshipping their own efforts, gossiping about others, and defaming the minister (It was a VERY tough bunch).   The opportunity for worship was there ON PAPER, but very little worshipping of God was accomplished.  Everything we do as a expression of our faith, whatever your personal faith may be, is an expression of worship.  It comes down to a matter of personal attitude.

Yikes stoneeyeball!  Good for those folk the Inquisition is long gone or they woulda been in for it :P

Assalaam Alaiykum

-Omni

Hello toragirl........God bless you......

Anyone of us who knows Gods , knows there is a physical world and a spiritual world.....I believe that worship falls under the spiritual.......the more you get to know the spiritual side of God the more the Holy Spirit shows of the spiritual world....worship I believe comes from the Holy Spirit from learning, growing and having faith...in God....

Becoming spiritual is making the jump from the physical to the spiritual which comes from knowing God........and this is by Faith....that we learn the two work together with faith...it is up to each and everyone of us to seek out and find God and then He will be found by us...He is waiting to reveal to us His Whole Being....

IJL:bg

Toragirl,

the other day as I was walking through a parking lot, the smallish kind, with cracked asphalt and weeds poking through, I stopped and was overcome by a familiar feeling. I closed my eyes and enjoyed it, becoming more aware of my weight on my feet, the feel of the sun and the breeze on my skin, the smell of the traffic, my memories of other moments like this reminding me of other moments, a feeling of oneness.

And then it passed, and I moved on.

Justification of grace through faith, something I have recently found out (or rediscovered). The notion that universe is inherently full of grace. And so it is.

universe laughs with you,

Inannawhimsey

I agree with bygraceiam

Seek and you shall find, Knock and the door will be opened to you.

Many people profess to be spiritual but I dare say that a huge percentage of these people would not know spiritualism if it slapped them in the face. There is a spiritual side of life that we can tap into that will bring us into an understanding of truths and realities we never knew existed. You can reach these by seeking God through Christ Jesus and by the leading of the Holy Spirit. I have seen the spirit realm to only a small degree but I long for a much higher level. I have had significant encounters with the spiritual side both Good and Evil, aka God and the devil. This is primarily how I came to know My Lord and Savior. If there was a Devil and Demons, there had to be a God, Jesus and Holy Spirit. Everything that I saw / experianced was revealed to me in the Bible the one and only word of God. This is why I can be a witness for Christ. He is as real as you and I, as is the Holy Spirit and they long for you all to search for more of the truth.

Faith is worship. If you have faith you are worshiping God. To sing and dance before God is showing your faith in him and this is a form of worship. Admiring Gods creations is worshiping God, falling on your face in fervent prayer is worship.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself is worship and faith in God.

I believe you can  not have one with out the other, they go hand in hand.

God truly loves you all and as do I

God Bless

I  kind of have the same degree of difficulty when it comes to religion. I went around last year to various churches to see what  the services were like. It was strange for me to go in some of the churches with the videos, and bands. It all seemed a bit foreign.

My experiences were when I was younger and the sermon was said, the choir sang and we all went home. I came to realize last year that perhaps it wasn't the church or the religion that I was trying to connect with again but more the spirituality. The feeling inside of calm and grounding, which I think is a bit different than religion.

I found myself looking at the different church websites again to see if there was anything new and I found myself back here. Thanks for letting me share, I kind of missed chatting on here.

Take care all.

If you reject any sense of agency in God (ie God has no connection to our lives) you will probably find it difficult to fit in with a mainline Christian Church like the UCC.  This is not to say we wouldn't welcome you, or that you would have to change in order to join us, but rather that I doubt you would feel comfortable in a setting that ascribes agency to God, or in a congregation that weekly worships God.

I am somewhat surprised that you still believe in "God" despite a lack of awe or natural outporing of worship.  Your description here sounds deistic, the model of God where God set things in motion, then sits back to observe but not partake for the rest of time.  For me, if belief in God did not involve a sense of awe, I would cease to believe.  In the same book I quoted above, Hartshorne describes God as the One who is Worshipped.  For me, a deistic God would be an intellectual curiosity, but not worthy of my time or worship.

I can't comment on the appropriateness of your beliefs for the Buddhist faith, as I'm not a buddhist.  But that is certainly something else you can look into.

I would agree with many who say that attending a church service is not required to have faith in God.

However, attending a service ( the correct one for you) helps you to connect to others in the community.

I find a good preacher opens my mind to other ideas and interpretations that I hadn't thought of before.

A passage of the bible that I might have thought I knew totally becomes a different message.  Sometimes that is how it is presented but often it is because of the ministers knowledge of the times and cultures that I simply didn't have.

Faith in God to me, is about developing a relationship with God.  Similar to developing a new friendship.  It takes time to learn about a new friend and you cna't do that by sitting alone.  You do that my meeting with that friend, talking, exchanging ideas and feelings. 

So attending a service  for me helps me to further get to know god as a friend.

Lastpointe is right on the mark, Toragirl.   Even if you don't believe God cares (and I wonder the same things as you) I can celebrate a group of people who come together to learn more, and make the world better bit by bit.  I guess worship has a different connotation, but same as we say, thanks for a sunny day, or for our good food, or for living in a free country, there is joy & fullness is saying that.  Saying it together in a group strenghtens each of us and reaches further.  THat is pretty good worship, whether God is a 'listening' God or a wonderful force of love in the world.

One of the reasons our pastor and some other members give for regularly attending church is fellowship. You can worship in your own way, out in the boondoks, washing dishes, in the form of a painting, whichever you feel like. 

The wolf (IE the ENEMY finds it easier to pick us off when we are away from the flock and on our own.  As a group we draw strength from each other by offering help, comfort and, very important, accountability. Sometimes without a 'check' once in a while, we can stray off course and not know it unless someone lovingly and respectfully brings it to our attention.

Would you clarify  who the wolf is, trishcuit?

its really a matter of you knowing the power of the word alone 'JESUS CHRIST', for you to understand the importance of praise.

Hi toragirl,

That would provide a rather large barrier.  You have latched onto a concept of God that is, at best, impersonal and it is hard to put a relationship together with something impersonal that is anything more than pragmatic.

It is like a relationship with Jell-O.  Sure you'll eat it if it is right there in front of you but unless you are some kind of Jell-O fanatic odds are you aren't searching all over for it or even have the patience to boil the water, stir in the powder and then chill it until it sets.  It is something that you can do with out.

Again, understandable in light of the impersonal God that you have embraced.  There is no one there to relate to so worship makes about as much sense as walking into a park and singing love ballads to the nearest Oak.

No wonder.  They are relating to something that is very personal to them, the Creator of the forrest but all you see is the tree.  See a force that binds people together has a pragmatic use in that it holds us all together but somebody who doesn't exist (and that is a choice you have made, God as person does not exist) there is nothing of use in that at all.

You might be on to something there.  Of course the problem isn't that something needs to be worshipped so much as it is the what right?

I mean, you have already rejected the notion of a personal God so attending worship where belief in a personal God is the foundation to all of the liturgy is just one great big wall to you.

What if the object of worship was something impersonal?  Say a coffee or a Tim-bit?

Where the most important thing is just getting together to make use the props given to us to feed our Caffeine and sugar addiction/craving?  We can have intellectual and emotional discourse about the events of the day or day past and then go out into the world ready to observe more and do it all over again tomorrow.

Grace and peace to you.

John

 The wolf is the enemy, disguising himself in seemingly  harmless worldy things.

Please clarify -are you saying satan or the devil?

What if there is an energy source (which supports the power of prayer, I think) and God has the last say?

I can't find a place where people can come together to have an intellectual and emotional connection, without worship.

there is so much that intellect and emotion can do for a person, most of  it is something that lasts for a moment, but one is usually seeking an eternal satisfaction ...you have to understand that human beings have a limited satisfaction that they can offer you, one thing i have realized no matter how intellectual or how profound a person is, it will never be enough to really make you whole. I think you've even realized due to your curiosity, that man and the pleasures of  this world will never satisfy you. So you are right you wont find a place, or even a person, if you really want a fufillment you need to seek him, and it requires worship my friend, i hope you will understand me someday.

I think I've heard the "Wolf" termed before as that which leads us astray (not the devil particularly)  There is a little gem of wisdom:

The Story of the Two Wolves

One day an old Native American grandfather was talking to his grandson. He said, "There are two wolves fighting inside all of us - the wolf of fear and hate, and the wolf of love and peace."

The grandson listened, then looked up at his grandfather and asked, "Which one will win?"

The grandfather replied, "The one we feed."

that is awesome. Thanks!

 Please clarify -are you saying satan or the devil?

* * *

They are one and the same, are they not? Or have I missed something all these years?

 Um yes, the Wolf is a biblical metaphor for the Enemy, the Devil, Satan, and his many other names.

 I just recieved this verse in my emails today and it is perfect, to describe the fellowhsip and accountability of a church body.

A person standing alone can be attacked and defeated, but two can stand back-to-back and conquer. Three are even better, for a triple-braided cord is not easily broken.

~ Ecclesiastes 4:12, NLT

I too was raised a Christian. I occasionally go back to church with my parents, and I too feel.... as if their form of worship is not neccesarily my form of worship. To be honest, my on-going goal is to eliminate static and coagulation from myself and my surroundings. The story of Christ, in its own way, is very nice and a good tool for some, but for me I'd rather have cut and dry; black and whtie.... without all the little tidbits. Mind you, a lot of people's morality is based upon teachings found in the bible and if my parents had not been that way...... I would not have the drive to connect with God, (or myself for that matter...) After all, what makes up "you" isn't really you. =)

So far as my experaince has told the purpouse of worship is two fold that God hears us and is pleased and that I can lay my self at the feet of the cross again. I know where toragirl is coming from sometimes it feels off or like people don't understand what the song entails If that's the case i just skip that line. But plz Tora listen for a sec Jesus is a person a Almighty Identity I met him and Things have never been the same Yea stuffs still a little black sheepish at church at times but The only way to go is a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP. It's the bee's knees try it! He's listing 2 u right now..................plz try

Hi toragirl,

You wrote that you believe that God is "the energy that ties humanity together." Interesting. That's what I believe, too, and yet you and I seem to have such different experiences of worship. As a child, my experiences of God came first in worship, and for some reason which I cannot explain, I continue to have some of my most profound experiences of God's presence in worship. Of course, that is evident in the fact that I am a minister now.

I, too, was raised Christian, but as far back as I can remember I knew that God wasn't a person. That God was different. God is energy. God is the source of life. God is love. God is the source of all that is good. But I have also experienced interactions with that energy. I "speak" to it. As a child I "spoke" to God (i.e. prayed) through feelings, and chuckled inwardly that some people seemed to think they had to use words to pray. Now I have broadened my "language" of prayer to include words. And it's only in my mid-life that I've really come to relate to God as if God is a person. It's a cool way to do it, but the key is "as if." I know God isn't a human person, but that doesn't stop me.

I'm wondering if the sticking point for you is that you feel you must believe that God is one of those images we use to describe or conceptualize God. But what if you entered into worship "as if" God is a being who listens, while knowing that God in reality defies any definition or description we can try to pin on him/her/it? If God were a person, what would you say to that person? What do you think God would say to you? If this energy that ties all humanity together could feel, how do you think this energy would feel? I think that all of our images of God are this kind of "as if." We are not able to perceive or even imagine God as God truly is.

Of course, having said that, I also believe that we each have a path which would lead us to this reality. We don't all have the same path. Perhaps the kind of worship you have tried to engage in isn't your path. Perhaps another expression of worship is, or perhaps your path is something different altogether.

I hope this is helpful to you in some way. It sounds like you are seeking some kind of understanding or experience. I hope you find it.

Don't you just love those moments?  :)

As-Salaam Alaiykum

-Omni