Are you referring to Pagan Celtic Spirituaality, or Celtic Christian Spirituality?

I used to have a pen pal who was Irish Catholic which I was told was a lot more progressive and very much more feminist than Roman Catholic. It's a distinct denomination, not just she was a Catholic of Irish descent. I didn't get lots of info on it however. I'm sure it'd be easy enough to look up if you're interested.

i dont know about the spirtuality, but hey i love the music

If you're interested in Celtic Christianity, I would check out Anglican resources.  Long before the Protestant Reformation, Rome was very concerned with the Anglicans because they were very influenced by Celtic approaches.  Augustine of Canterburry was supposed to have been sent by the Pope to rid the English Church of Celtic influence.  But apparently it didn't work, since it's still a big movement within Anglican Christianity. Here is a tiny quote by Grace Clunie, a priest in the Church of Ireland (Anglican) that I think typifies the Celtic spirit: "Life is a spiritual journey full of sacred meaning. How do we perceive and experience the presence of the sacred through all of life’s journey? How do we find the sacred weave of life?" Celtic art conveys that same spirit. It's a very rich lens to view the Christian tradition through.

It's also popular among Anglican youth:

http://young-anglican-thoughts.blogspot.com/2008/05/quick-look-at-celtic...

There's an influential Irish preacher named Herbie O'Driscoll who is very Celtically (?) inclined.  He has a series of commentaries on the lectionary that you can sometimes find cheap in good used bookstores.

The waters of Celtic spirituality have been greatly muddied by various forms of Californian dreaming and New Age wishful thinking. And the Irish Catholic and Anglican traditions owe their all to Roman Catholicism. Rishi is correct in what he says, there were concerns, but anything of heretical substance would have been ruthlessly extirpated by now. With its laid-back, Italianate ways (notwithstanding the Inquisition), Catholicism has done a lot to loosen up and put a bit of leaven into the soul of the Gael.

Very little is known for sure about pagan/pre-Christian Celtic spirituality (despite the many fanciful books) but the Celts certainly took to Christianity early and with almost instant zeal, suggesting that they saw considerable relative attractions in it (evn the hope of Rome's demise?). There is some evidence that the Celtic cultures were at the time at a low ebb, thanks to Roman oppressions, and many Celts were desperate for some new way ahead.

There is some evidence that druids may have influenced classical and late classical Greek thought – but no way to tease out specifics -- and there seem to have been resonances on and off with Eastern cultures. Early Celtic monasticism was, as in the East, solitary and involved a taste for some pretty brutal self-imposed mortification of the flesh and, although Celts invented soap, resisting the temptation to wash was considered a virtue. When they died, Celtic religious often had to have their soiled habits cut off because they were so stuck to the body by filth, and a holy man or woman could apparently be found from considerable distances by following the smell.

Early Christian Celts were into things like standing neck-deep in the icy north Atlantic reciting the psalms: all of them, memorised by rote. They were partial to living in isolated stone cells, eating shellfish and rodents and sleeping on stone beds with stone pillows. And they spread the Word as far as Iceland by setting themselves adrift at sea, to be cast where God would send them,  as a form of martyrdom (the ‘white martyrdom’ of self-exile). Some began forming communities and a few of these early communities included both men and women.  That didn’t last, though.

But, while male Celtic attitudes to women were not as patriarchal as those of the Jews, they were far from feminist in their thinking, as anyone who studies St Columba will discover. (After studying this in some detail  in Scotland, I was drawn to a notion that Sisters from St Brigid’s community in Kildare were possibly the first to Christianise parts of Scotland, maybe through St Ninian’s community  at Whithorn: there are a lot of place-names in south-east Scotland and a little tradition around the Christianisation of the Pictish king – and this legacy would have been something Columba and his monks would have been happy to crush. But that is total non-‘history’, just an impression that formed for me.)

The Celts also have been credited with embracing nature as a part of their spirituality and, in many relative ways, they did. But they simply were not urban the way Romans and Greeks were. They lived in small agricultural communities for the most part and had sentiments for nature of the sort often found in agricultural communities, many of them seeming cruel and barbaric to modern urbanites who’ve been indoctrinated in anthropomorphism by people like Walt Disney.

Critical to an understanding of Celtic spirituality is an understanding of extreme self-discipline, It is seen today in the strenuous attitudes, though not necessarily the detail of practice, of the Free Church of Scotland.

On the whole, I don’t think the early Celtic religious and modern proponents of "Celtic spirituality" would recognise, approve of,  or tolerate each other.

Nice Mike

Thank you everyone! Very helpful to me

The Iona Abbey off the coast of , Scotland I think, is a modern celtic community.  Our present priest in charge spends a few weeks there on retreat every few years.

On the second Sunday of every month we use the Iona service which is quite beautiful.

They have an excellent web site which can be googled "Iona Abbey".

Shalom

Mate

Iona's Church of Scotland (NOT Scottish Episcopalian as I first wrote: my slip -- we had Episcopalian and Methodist friends who were involved there: it's open interdenominationally): it's not "Celtic" so much as an attempt (successful in a Taize kind of way) to restore a spiritual dimension to faith life in Scotland. It is a nice place to spend time, with a lot of history -- including, of course, the site Columba -- Colm Cille -- made his home.

More than Celtic, it's a persuasive way to help move past the sectarian bigotry  and hatred that still blight parts of Scotland: the Reformation was savage in its workings out in Scotland.

While the community (you can join from Canada if you want) uses a lot of Celtic imagery, it does not use a lot of Celtic language, music or genuine heritage. It would be best described as being inspired by the heritage of Scotland. But it is a Scotland with a softer than genuine centre (which is undoubtedly a desirable thing, especially for a North American). You will get there with Google. But it is best to go and stay for a week or two or more. We have done it, and walked all over the island... it is wonderful in half-decent weather.

Taize, by the way, is also worth a visit if you're Europe-bound. But there are many amazing places to discover in Europe.

Would you say, Mike, that engaging in Celtic Christian spirituality would require some personal insight into wholesome 'mortification,' if such there be?

Hi Rishi:

I'd see it as heavily contextual: as I said, a powerful component to the Celtic spiritual approach is a disciplined self. Also important is the continual experience of the presence of God in all things. I think that in all matters spiritual, however, it's necessary to move past the branding and the labels. A package that says "Celtic" -- ar anything else -- fails to fill me with confidence, I'm afraid. I'm not sure quite how the Celtic essence of disciplined living in the Will of God, regardless of where that Will takes you, would be expressed in a society as committed to an indulgent "self" as the society we inhabit in modern North America. Our comfort zones are virtual strait-jackets. How do you throw yourself in total faith into the hands of God these days without getting arrested?

I believe there are inner ways of doing this and of trying to live with some sense of this discipline and God's presence -- not because it's "Celtic" or because anyone else is doing it but because I have learned that, for me, disciplined "letting go" is a necessary spiritual discipline: I am a journeyer with three passports and "nationalities". I discovered the power of inner gratitude, largely from Islamic friends in Scotland with whom I sort-of did my best to observe the Ramadan fast. Christianity used to involve real, serious fasting (and still does in some traditions: I've seen this in Orthodox communities in the Cyclades). Prostration was also a part of prayer, as in Islam. Celtic spirituality lay in the stream of disciplined faith. Ritual meant something immediate, personal and transforming... at least for some people, for a time.

 But I don't think anyone from our North American context should just dive into this stuff without a lot of serious preparation and study. These disciplines are NOT ends in themselves; they are part of a transforming way of living practised within communities that "get it" and where the whole structure of human gratifications is rather different. This is why, in our atomised society, I find solitude essential... You spoke in another topic about a caring community; we can find caring communities but our communities tend, in my experience, to be based on relationship in rather the way that sports and interest clubs are constituted: formed around sets of aims and values in common that are collectively considered sensible and worthwhile, and then furthered, rather than being established on principles of unqualified companionship for a potentially dangerous journey through life. Spiritual values to me aren't sensible, not in the least... they're just essential,. And, outside of a few musical circles, I haven't yet found too many communities around that enter into issues of "essence" in much depth and with a real investment of selfhood, much will to live sacrificially: that's very very hard to move towards in our society. Conformity is more the game, as it is in the fundamentalist wings of all faiths.

Maybe it's always been thus -- there's a bleak bulk of history to suggest that's the case -- but I wonder whether narcissism had held general sway in quite the way it has come to among us here and now. And I don't know that there's a collective way to address or engage with that because it is framed wholly in contexts and presumptions of radical individualism. There are no clear boundarioes for discernment where the individual is paramount so discernment is seen as too taxing, too painful and too boring to sit securely within any community that would also seek to be open and welcoming and convincingly caring. What should be the bonding force instead becomes the cause of fragmentation, because of the norms and boundaries we indwell from our society. We've maybe sissified our spirits in our failure to engage with the WHOLE of life, in our capacity to pick and choose experiences, even very powerful experiences, without andy sense of maybe first requiring the wisdom to make good choices.

It's that engagement that's become a passion for me. And I'm finding the WHOLE of life is overwhelmingly full of inspiration and challenge, vivid suprise after vivid surprise, emotional landscapes beyond art or poetry, the variegated flavours of pain, pleasure, love, loving-kindness, fury, beauty, ungliness, attractions, repulsions, sweetness, intellectual stimulus despite conviction of the inexplicability and ultimate unknowability of everything, and, at the quick and all around, an experiuence of enormous, overarching, inexplicable goodness and it compels me to gratitude, over and above any other emotion.

Well that was not much help to your question, was it...  sorry about that.

On the contrary, that was quite helpful. I'm thinking that maybe it's a blessing that mortification has been filtered out of the New Age Celtic movement. Just imagine the shapes it might have taken...

 Don't despair: it's still to be found thriving  in Australian pub culture. You just need to get out more, Rishi.

Hi Mike,

My Dad was born in Inverary, so I'm familiar with some things Scottish. Your comment about Iona reminded me of my visit there.

Despite the fact that it was in early September, it was freezing cold, with a bitter gale force wind that made walking very difficult. I remember facing towards Ireland, and saying a silent prayer for those first Irish monks that were washed up on it's shores. Surely they deserved a more comfortable haven!

Hi meoff66:

All of the indigenous tribal nature religions of our planet are somwhat similar. If you want to investigate Celtic nature religion, then you might want to start with North American indigenous spirituality. In my personal spiritual quest, my contacts with local indigenous spirituality brought me closer to the nature religion of my Celtic/Germanic ancestors.

I have the Iona Abbey Worship Book and use it frequently, for instance right now, in preparation for our Sept. 6 service, which I'll be leading as a lay service leader. The theme of my service and sermon will be Christian mysticism. Celtic Christian mysticism will be part of it.

No thanks...I still have a limp from my last adventure in an Australian pub.

Was that a dwarf-throwing contest? They actually DO that: get little people all velcroed-up and see how high the big boys can stick them to the wall. How civilisation has laboured to attain the heights of reason we have achieved!!!

Then for real adventure there are some of the Russian mafia-run "Irish" pubs in places like Belarus! Back to Celticism, 21st century-style!

Hi Mike,rishi,

As an Aussie, I just want to say I've never seen a dwarf-throwing contest. But you're right - they do exist.

It's the underbelly of a macho culture. Perhaps it's connected to our history as a penal colony and a harsh early colonial life which was male dominated. (I often think that the story of "Lord of the Flies" is similar - civil behaviour is often a casuality when males are set loose in a wilderness!)

But don't write us all off - when your excesses are "out there", they're often easier to confront.

 Aussies gotta have fun, man! I'm a kiwi... would I "write off" an Aussie? Never, mate! We love you bloody retards across the Tasman. Always have, dinkum.

"retards"???, perleeese! Everyone knows the most intelligent Kiwi is a sheep. 

 Baaa-aaaa-aaaa!

OK you two....  as Pilgrim already knows, it was an epiphany in her land that eventually led me back to the church. I was only among Roman Catholics there, but one thing I noticed about the quality of their spiritual life was that it wasn't as bloodless as I experience much of the Canadian church to be.  Would you say that lack of anemia might be a feature of Celtic spirituality?

Ah, rishi, we should never have let you go!

From my limited understanding of Celtic spirituality, it was extremely austere. (living in caves on windswept headlands etc.) If you weren't warm blooded you would have frozen to death.

My guess is that being Irish/Scottish they would have had a wee dram or two hidden away in their monk's robes.

And, as to Aussies being warm blooded, we did use rum as currency in the early days of the colony. 

For most of its mainstream citizens, Canada is "lite" in lots of ways, protected from many of the realities of life by a polite sentimentality, a hair-trigger comfort zone, a zeal for political correctness and a massively-resourced, imported entertainment industry aimed at the lowest common level of discernible sentience. It's safe but routinely insipid and often vacuous. There are many people on the planet who live a little closer to the sharp edges and rocky places.

You might as well come out and tell the world that we're the Antichrist, Mike.  There's still a lot of great landscapes to see here, folks. Don't cancel your Canadian vacation plans...

Interesting comment, Mike. As I'm considering a trip to Canada next year, I asked around here for comments Canadian. The two that were repeated were 1. Canadians are conservative Americans 2. Canadians are more like us (Aussies)than are Americans.

I will see what I will see! (And no,rishi, I don't think Canadians are the Antichrist - wondercafers are great folks. Mmmmm - not sure about the fundies.) 

Canadians and more feminist in their approach to laws and freedom, but there are still many Conservative aspects going on in the country. Then again, think Monarchy, and in that sense we are brothers and sisters.

See this is what happens when you listen to bagpipes too long. You lose your appreciation for the more genteel aspects of things.

"Sharp edges and rocky places"?? You say that as if its a good thing Mike. If I have to choose between "vacuous" and "rocky" give me vacuous every time. At least until everyone on the planet has the opportunity to live an equally uneventful existence.

 "Hoots, mon. "Who says ya canna have both? Water's nay good without whisky." 

In the words of St. Louis (Armstrong)... "What a wonderful world!"

 What a Wonderful World - the actual MP3 track - is my cell ring tone. Love it.

I am also getting a real hoot out of this thread.  Thanks for the monday chuckle and the education folks!

Only an Aussie would ruin good whiskey by watering it down.

Good to see you're now fighting fit again, David.

My advice is to stick to single malt whisky. (You won't be able to afford to over indulge!)