Bumping this back up - I'm getting used to that little "hot topics" box on the side but if something slips off, I don't always check further. 

Hi Birthstone, 

Thanks for hosting another chapter.  

Chapter 5 really seemed to build on the concept of villagers, returnees, exiles, converts and immigrants.  As you said in your opening post, the old village church didn't need to worry much about hospitality, because most new members were born into the community.  These churches were friendly to those who already belonged, but were seldom faced with wayfarers or strangers.

DBB talks in this chapter about a Florida church which extends hospitality authentically, in contrast to a contrived "greeters' program" or "welcoming committee".  At this particular church, there is much diversity found in the congregation, and a genuine welcome has been extended to many homeless people.

I dont' know that it is easy to just pick up the 'steps' of the Florida church and tell our churches about them.  Can't happen - what fosters this?

What I think this chapter is about is for a team of people to read, ponder, discuss & grow into.  I think a critical part is recognizing in our own selves & practices where we miss the mark.  ie- using coffee hour as committee time, or a failure to foster relationships & relational connections beyond our comfy visits with friends, and also a sense of people needing to be cared for, rather than them having a role in caring.  I see this desire & expectation to be ministered to, rather than ministering, and our churches propogate it to an extent.

Yes the issue is context and what we intend - again not one size fits all but to learn how a church defined hospitality within its context -   yes village churches do not provide hospitality as they assume you are born into it and if happen to find the church unless you are part of the 'family' you are always welcome but understood as an outsider.  The problem is such a church is blind to who they are - and they don't want to do the crucial self examination -

I have found the book to be very thougthprovoking.  This chapter, looking at the welcome of church has caused me to think of how I myself am in church.

I must admit that sometimes I don't do more than smile at someone and that is partly because I have a terrible memory for faces and I am always unsure if I have met them before.  Of course, is't that stupid.  and yet I would feel totally stupid to walk up and shake hand and give my name to find out I did it last week too. 

The sin of Embarrasment?????

I agree that alot of the book is commonsense and yet I like the frame of the book that not all churchs in the States that are thriving are evangelical.  I think that message somes through loud and clear and needs to be said over and over.

Birthstone, 

Do we have any volunteers for Chapter 6?  I would be happy to host another chapter.

Haven't heard of any other interest so far, so go for it.  Are we done with this?  I haven't seen Arminius on here so far.  

It may be that this chapter was pretty straightforward.

Except I'm going to nudge these points:

Creation of Free space - not often we think of church as 'free space' - maybe quiet, or busy, or bustling even, or sacred or - we put labels or activity on everything.  This idea give me a picture of villagers/etc - meeting newcomers in a room, with no expectations or assumptions or agenda - only a smile & respect.  Is this a small, easy change?  Or is it the sort that requires a larger fundamental shift?   - similar to comment about confusion of role as host/guest

Sense of Freedom - this seemed to be a holy grail for me - how can being in church feel like freedom?  We have committees & rules & sacred cows & unseen power structures, before we even bring up doctrine & traditional worship styles.  Now, I'm not coming from another denomination, but I love that people could sense  that, and I'd like to learn that from them.  I'd also like to offer my influence to reduce the restrictions of all the afore-mentioned realities.

I just have a little comment. Sometimes we jam our services so full of music,dedications, etc., etc. that I don't think we allow any time for the Spirit to move. I wonder if new folk can sense this - that our services are very busy. just something I was thinking about.

it certainly doesn't leave any space.  Even the silences sometimes included are short and directed and impatient.  Good point Crazyheart.

Regarding silence:  I find this very distracting in worship. If I want silence to mediate or in prayer, I can do that on my own, when there isn't noise from people coughing, ambulances going by outside, etc.  I expect worship to bring together the body of Christ in ways that we can't do individually.  Now I realize that some people value silence, but smaller groups (eg prayer groups) seem more appropriate for this.

Concerning that sense of freedom mentioned above, there are many kinds of freedom. Yes, committees and democratic structures may offer less freedom in the sense that compromise can be constraining, but at least your voice gets heard, and you may actually be able to influence things.  (My regret here is that for the last fifty years, there are many voices that haven't been heard.  Yes, that includes the underprivileged, people of colour, people of different sexual orientations etc. But these represent a small fraction of the church. What's surprising is that the church has not listened to a much larger group - the young (anyone under 60!).  I don't understand why it has taken so long to hear those voices.)  But there is definitely a freedom in being able to engage in spiritual issues, in a way that's not generally possible in the rest of society and sometimes even within families 

Hi Birthstone: Here I am!

Creation of free space certainly is a good idea, but how this might look in practice, I don't know. We here in Lumby B.C. are actively trying to make our church hall into the spiritual center of our wider community by being spiritually and culturally pluralistic. But most of the new people who come to our wondercafe.live! and WonderSpirit events in the church hall may not come to our Christian worship services in the sanctuary, and some of those who attend the Christian worship services in the sanctuary may not come to any of these alternative events in our church hall. The ones that are creatively and actively engaged in both are building the church of the future.

For many congregations, the more fundamentalist ones in particular, hospitality is indeed designed to recruit new members. Such congregations are excessively welcoming, but after the initial warm welcome there is strong pressure to conform.

Christianity has been a rigidly doctrinal religion for so long that it is difficult for Christians to throw off the yoke of doctrine and become unconditionally accepting and inclusive of those who think differently, in the spirit of the original movement around Jesus. Successful congregations are those who manage to throw off the doctrinal bias and the social club aspects of the "old village church" and become unconditionally welcoming.

Hospitality is not safe, comfortable, or easy. It wasn't in the days of Jesus, and it isn't now. But if we don't practice it, in the spirit of the original movement around Jesus, then we might as well pack it in or remain just an inward oriented Christian social club.

There is nothing wrong with being a warm and comfy social club, but we need to be more than that, and more inclusive and unconditionally welcoming, and offer comfort and security to those who need it the most and get it the least.

How can church be more like freedom? you ask. Well, we may be able to minimize bureaucracy, but a certain amount of bureaucracy is necessary in any organization, particularly one that governs itself from the grassroots up. Freedom neccessitates  responsibilities, and we just have to bow to them.

I see freedom not so much as a freedom from duty, but intellectual and spiritual freedom: freedom of religion; freedom from religion; freedom to create.

Re: Silence - I like it much better when the silence uses soft music in the background to blur over the coughs & shuffling, and recently have heard the singing bowls or chimes used - very helpful for focusing.  Time & place, though.

Re: space - Arminius - I guess I meant my image as figurative more than as a program or practice.  To create a sense where we respond to questions & needs, rather than imposing ourselves (speaking from a church goer's perspective).

minimizing Bureacracy - the reason we don't easily include new people is because the committees too often become a team of familiar faces, each doing their own role, each feeling important.  A new voice or new perspective really changes the flavour & direction and so is soemtimes squeezed back out by the diehards, the trusted ones.  It isn't done maliciously, only without vision perhaps. 

I would love committees & activities to be more of a conversation, a brainstorming session, where the rules aren't set already, and memories of past success & failures are simply part of the puzzle, rather than patterns to be repeated or rejected

Hi Birthstone:

Becoming more creative and innovative, that's the ticket, eh? Seeking creative solutions. Risking failure.

The freedom to create inludes the freedom to fail. If we want to be creative, we have to risk failure. We have to permit ourselves and each other to fail.

We are imitative because we don't want to risk failure, but rigid imitativeness may be the biggest failure of them all.

Hi Birthstone, 

Okay,  I will start the chapter six thread soon ... P3

Birthstone

Too bad committees can't have rotating members so everyone gets a shot at everything.  Puts an end to "my" kitchen and "my" Sanctuary.

IT

Russ

Hi Russ:

Ideally, committee members should rotate.

rotate so they come around to where they were again