Why cannot it be theatre... AND more than theatre?

The language I would use for it is "sacred theatre", Crazyheart.

But the actors/musicians are not the ministry leadership... and the audience isn't the congregation.

For me, the entire worshipping community are the actors and musicians, and the audience is God. (Then, again, since I believe God is intimately connected with us, God is also the actor/musician and we are the audience, too.)

There is drama - which touches us at a relational level. There is music - which touches us at an emotional level. There are things that help us to think, and things that help us to feel.

For me, at both a practical and mystical level, our worship times are theatre of the Divine.

Here's the thing... it's got to be "theatre with integrity". We need to live our parts fully, becoming the characters that we are. If we worship with dis-integrity, it shows - not just to God, but to the community of faith, and to those around us.

So, yeah, worship - for me - is sacred theatre. Part of my task, as ministry personnel, is to help the participants participate as fully and as integrally (oh, yeah - that's a word!) as they can.

Christ's peace - r

There is a performative aspect to worship. Songs need to be in the proper tune & tempo to sound good. Spoken words need to be clearly articulated, well paced and projected in order to be understood. Just as a poor actor can ruin a play, a poorly delivered worship service can fail to inspire.

Worship is similiar to theatre, but it is not the same.

Worship can be theatrical but church isn't theatre.  The two have a different purpose ultimately although I think that the creative urge, the desire to find beauty and meaning, is part of what we call the Holy Spirit.

I am an old Christian of anglo-celtic heritage.  Church for me is very inward.  I don't need a big show.  Although I love good music, performed in the Spirit, especially congregational singing, it is not absolutely essential to me.  I look with amusement on those who want to make church into a performance, but I don't mind it.  Different people relate to worship in different ways.

I think I would have enjoyed discussing the idea with them.  Worship as theatre gives me many thoughts.

Some congregations do indeed seem to think that they go to church to be entertained - as in the minister does things, the choir (or even more exciting, the childrens choir) does things.  The congregation are the audience and sometimes clap.  The message delivered by all this may, or may not, make a difference in their lives in the future.

Theatre is just acting, or pretending I suppose.  Do I want a minister who just acts a role in church without taking that role into the real world to make a difference?  Is the point of worship to pretend to be something we aren't?

What does the 'audience' understand before and after the worship service?  When there is a time for prayer what do they think this time is for - keeping quiet?  remembering the people prayed for and reaching out to them during the week?  As an audience what role do they play as there church attracts new members?

Crazyheart says "Churches that flourish are the ones who have good theatre skills."

The church that I have left, did things very well in this aspect.  It was like Theatre, or like watching a well tuned performance with top notch music and a skit in the middle by the Minister.  My problem was that there was no meat to it and I was leaving frustrated and empty spiritually week after week.

Oh and by the way, this church is far from flourishing, but dying like so many other United Churches.

I have been to church's with good and bad music, sermons, etc . . . and there is some truth to it being a show, sometimes, and it attracting and keeping people sometimes.

Some people only want to go to church for an experience.  It is much easier to have a personal spiritual experience with great music and lighting and such.  Some people like to get lost in the crowd.

Personally I would rather have a church with no singing or anything if it had people in it that truly wanted to get to know me, and I them, and be involved in each other's lives.  This is what I crave from church, and have been left wanting from every church I have attended.  Perhaps I am the problem?

Back on topic - I have been to large churches were it is a show.  They grow for a time, but they seem to rotate members.  Their growth is in attracting people from other churches, yet their numbers don't seem to change much.  They have new people coming in one door and just as many leaving through the other.

Crazyheart, I think we're sharing one mind!  I've just put up a topic asking what Worship is.

To me, who's involved with theatre fairly regularly, I would say that there are advantages and disadvantages to that analogy.  Yes, worship can be theatrical, but it isn't always.  As a member of the audience, theatre is mainly seen and heard, and rarely experienced.  However, as an actor, I can definitely say that I've had moments on stage that felt like 100% pure worship.  That is to say, I am fully immersed in the moment, pouring all that I am into serving the role I'm playing. 

Perhaps we should look at worship/church more as the acting, and less as the show.  Interactive theatre, perhaps?

Your answers have been stimulating.

The difference may be in how interactive the worship service is. If everyone can participate in the worship service, then it stops becoming theatre. Worship is a behaviour that starts with faith ( I believe), then moves on to communicate that faith through prayer, singing, communion etc.

CH,

well, think aboot it. There you are, a spiritual being (imagine all those worlds and bright lights flitting aboot inside you), who was brought up in a particular Tradition, who, during church service, is surrounded by other spiritual beings (with their own worlds and bright lights)...and then, at the right moment...someone opens up, opens up their spiritual self (submission, goes on a riff, enters into the moment) and shares with the rest of you...and, if all goes well, all of you do so as well...

Sharing your private, unique selves...celebrating of and in each other...

Before the Service, you are in such-and-such a state, living in the World as it is, which may seem normal and mundane. Then, during the Service, a Shaman/Priest/whomever takes you over the Threshold, getting you into contact with your spiritual self and all of you into contact with your spiritual selves, where we really are all Characters and Participants in a vast Play or Dance or Theatre...and then to close the service, this Priest 'grounds' you, taking you back into the World...

Or something like that.

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

That has been my impression of many denominations and the main goal is many members and much money.

I do believe there are some who are sincere and strive towards what they see as being true doctrine.

Tomlane

There is no such thing as true doctrine.

Worship and theatre have their commonalities and there are things in theatre that inform how we do worship. That said, theatre's focus is, first and foremost, entertainment and storytelling. Worship's focus is to "uphold that which we find worthy", whether that is God, or Nature, or humanity, or "true doctrine". Storytelling may be a part of it, but it is not the focus. Acting, dancing, music, may all be a part of it, but entertainment is not the focus. It is about celebration and education, rather than an entertainment.

Mendalla