That's some "extrapolation"  George. Wonderful - thanks.

Amen George...... I Love You 

George...here's one of your favorite singers.

Thanks both...!

This is my favourite version of the splendid song.

George

That's great GeoFee....

Yes, a clear purpose. The practice of agapé, pure and simple. Humanism in action.

Agapé has been preached for the past two-thousand years, and even made into the foremost Christian commandment, but not widely practiced in the Christian world. I wonder why?

Why is the foremost Christian commandment not widely practiced in the Western Christian world? Can loving action be commanded, and practiced on command, as an act of will? Or does the impulse for loving action has to arise from within, as something deeply and intuitively felt?

Of today's societies, those who practice humanism to the largest extent are the Scandinavian countries of northern Europe. According to the happiness scale, those countries are also the happiest. Although their humanism arose from Protestantism, these countries are now largely secular. Again I wonder why?

Could it be that secular humanism, like chansen said on a different thread, is a post-Christian phenomenon, something that Christian societies naturally evolve into? Christian morality stripped of Christian superstitions? The post-Christian stage in the development of a Christian culture, if you will? Christian morality without the B.S.?

From my experience, I would say that agapé naturally arises from an experience of universal at-one-ment. The experience of cosmic unity gives rise to the feeling of unitive love—without commandments, without teaching and preaching, without the trappings of organized religion.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with the teaching and preaching of agapé. But the direct experience of cosmic unity compels us to practice agapé by an inner, intuitive urge, which is more effective.

Hi Arminius...

Always nice to think of you in your small corner of the common circle, shining that light which the darkness cannot overcome.

Here is a small bit from my seminary days:

"Jesus Christ invites us to a table. Bread and wine are freely given to sustain life. Bread and wine are the tangible presence of God's goodness intended for all persons and for all creation.

Eating and drinking we recognize our participation in the revelation of Jesus Christ. Participation includes our share in the cross and our share in the resurrection.

The cross because we yield nothing to the powers of the age.

The resurrection because we exercise liberating authority.

Food and drink recieved at the table of God have a distinctive character: they increase as they are consumed. A loaf taken, blessed, broken and given is adequate for the hunger of an infintite multitude. So also with a cup poured out in faith. This is evidence of their ground in eternity.

Because the elements of God's communion with us, in the name of Jesus Christ, are inexhaustible we extend them freely to all who hunger and thirst. Faithful stewardship and distribution of life's basic substance is crucial to the vitality and well being of the church and the well being of all creation.

Communication of that which we receive at the table of our communion with God is the way in which we are incorporated fully into the resurrection life revealed in Jesus Christ."

We know well how to say such words. It is when we let them take root within and expression without that the desire of our hearts will be realized.

George

Yes, fine words, but it is difficult for people outside the Christian belief system to understand, internalize and realize them. The Christian metaphors are readily understood only by those within the Christian circle. To those on the outside they are meaningless, and an ever-increasing majority are on the outside. Perhaps we need to use new words to express the divine, words that speak to them?

The same sacred truths can be stated in many words. If one wants to be understood by the greatest possible number of people, it would be good to state those sacred truths in words that can be readily understood by them. Minority jargon is not helpful when trying to make one's ideas understood by the majority.

For last year's words belong to last year's language

And next year's words await another voice.

T.S. Eliot

Meaningless to me.

He's got a religious gibberish generator, I'd bet.

Hi Saul_now_Paul:

Insider jargon is not helpful when trying to make oneself understood to outsiders. If one wants to speak to outsiders, and be understood by them, one has to use language that they are familiar with.

If one insist on using insider language only, then one is confined to the circle that uses and understands this particular language.

Even your hero, Saul/Paul of Tarsus, used whatever language his audience was most familiar with. "I am all things to all people," he said, "so that I may convert as many people as possible."

Who, T.S. Eliot?

Yes, he has. But it is profound gibberish.

Hi Arminius...

I suspect you are well aware that I am not limited to such words. I addressed them to you because I know you are able to see through the form to the substance. Be assured, I am well able to make that substance present by a great diversity of language forms. I am broadly conversant in a diversity of spiritual insight and practice.

My constant challenge has been to speak in such away that the form in no way betrays the substance. This is more difficult than might first be imagined. Every person here, as elsewhere, has a history with signs and symbols. If I draw on one semiotic pattern, I am going to be questioned by another. It is this dialogic practice which permits the elimination of that which divides and the realization of that which unites.

There is an interesting insight given in the epistle of James:

"We get it wrong nearly every time we open our mouths. If you could find someone whose speech was perfectly true, you’d have a perfect person, in perfect control of life."

The challenge is diminished, but still demanding, in the oral realm where persons are present to each other and words are enriched by affective signification.

George

Yes, George, I am aware that you are spiritually multilingual.

I wish everybody was.

I think that one of our aims, as individuals and as a church, should be to become proficient in as many modes of spiritual/philosophical expressions as possible: be as pluralistic and inclusive in our spiritual expressions as Canadian culture is pluralistic and inclusive.

This, of course, does not mean we have to forsake the dialect and religion of our tribe. The Friesian dialect and Dutch Calvinist or Dutch Mennonite doctrine certainly are valid—within their sphere.

Then would God understand all languages ... and not just King James English (as some fundamentalists think Christ spoke in)?

That's a'palling (principle, or aphorism)  possibly the cover that God pulled over thy's elf when embarassed by his children's fall ... there he was left as upright a'phorism, or the initiation of ET'ihcs ... dard spot in the moral po'eL!

Sort of leaves us in the dark if you don't route about .. rutta-Ba-Ga as Ka in the gammos tradition of Greek light expressed in dark shades (hues) on the page buoy'd ... like a turn-up once the mire is flipped ... something you have to work with if you think word as just so much chittis tuff ...

Start eM out easy and then challenge eM with the difficult's tuff ...

Really is displeasing to the authority that thought they had the infinite nailed ... when it was all just abstract to eM, or tœm/tome as de vaul'ð ET ... and it jumped vessels ... leading to Suzerein ... the foreign power got control of what was ejected information as Semite da Ta (Tæ, Taos, or with silent light ... tallus/in-choqah at incarnation)?

They might have to consult with des Lexis ... the vault of compelling thoughts ...

Can you imagine some people don't belive in an innert or unconscious mind? They need the boque throw at eM for what they don't know ... there there's the rare bit ... rabid stewing as the screwed one is tamed by the street car named desire being railroaded ... to eL?

A second thought...

Reading this again I realized it is not quite accurate. The Eucharistic words are much repeated by Christians but only little understood. They have been ritualized rather than realized. This is an important distinction.
.
George
.

This a consequence of Genesis 2 on knowledge ... and Exodus 20:19 when ancient wisdom left us to enter the street system ... that's citi in Hebrew check out Proverbs 1:8 and Ecclesiastes 1:18 on wisdom as Erse ... perhaps Zues'd ... as a whetted stone ... left sharper as the edge of the penne ...

Only as the story ... that thing that can get into soul quicker that intelligence and critical information down here in an overheated surrounding ... Moloch's oven entire ... Moloch In Tyre as entaglement theory ... something that isolated authorities would sooner avoid ... too complicated ... like the etude of myth ... anon entendre?

Yes, George, I agree with you, and stand corrected.

In my thinking, any substance is the body of Christ, just as it is. What makes it from a material substance into the body of Christ is a leap of faith that is way beyond mere doctrinal belief. It is seeing, experiencing and being the divine and unitive universe, and the individual as an inseparable or integral part of this divine and unitive universe.

...going back to the original post ...... it seems to me that Goefee has called us to biblical fasting.....

Regards

Rita

Fasting ... reading too quick to really get into myth?

Hi RitaTG...

I appreciate how you pop in with your supportive and encouraging insights and wit every now and then.

I think that the Free Creative Spirit is blowing in the land, calling us each and all to the fast first articulated by the Hebrew prophet Isaiah and chosen as mission by Jesus of Nazareth.

It is lent and we are going to watch how Jesus lives his days in a time much troubled by the abuse of power by religious and political persons and institutions.

To fast is to put off what is superfluous in the service of what is necessary. An athlete who wants to win the prize gives up much to bring all available energy to bear on the challenge.

Might we not cast off what is wasteful and destructive of creation and dedicate our available energies in service to a fair share for each and all? You and I, with others here, know that this is both desirable and doable. Yet we wonder, why it does not get taken up among the great majority?

Maybe tomorrow, or the next day? This is my hope and my prayer.

George

Winter and early spring may be a good time to be outdoors on a fast and vision quest in the Middle East, but not in Canada! Maybe we should revive the Canadian aboriginal tradition of a vision quest around the Summer Solstice?