I would like to hear a potter's perspective on this, but my thoughts on this clay and molding and freewill is something like this. If we are clay to be molded, we can choose to be clay that is soft, or we can be clay that is too dry, or too wet, or lumpy or whatever. That makes for some very different types and qualities of finished product. Through our commitments and actions we choose to be the type of clay. It is then up to the potter to use or discard or possibly mix through intervention. The finished product is only as good as the clay and the knowledge of the potter

I once had a potter come and talk to children as she workrd on her wheel. A mother asked her son, " what did you do?" He said the clay is like us and god says that "splat" we can start over again if we make mistakes." Interesting concept from a child.

Wasn't the Flood a "splat - let's start over" moment?

Too bad for those who were splatted, though.

I was going to say I like the idea of the different kind of clays - because as in any kind of art, you can have an incredibly gifted artist as I believe God is - but you can have a really dull pencil, or cheap scrap paper, or yes, lumpy or already-hardened clay, or dry paint. What we as humans have over those supplies, is that we can make the choice of just how dull, cheap, or hardened to be. ;)

Of all this talk of potter and the pot,

Tell, who's the potter, pray, and who the pot?

-Omar Khayyam

For some reason I'm picturing the pottery wheel scene from the movie Ghost...

What's better being clay or being sheep? I like what what Faerenach said, "I am a weaver".  Perhaps she might say she is a potter. You around Faeren?

I do like the earthyness of the clay thing though. We come from the earth, and we return to the earth. Hopefully without a splat.

When native artists (or at least some of them) describe their art, they often say that it is less that they are creating than they are allowing the art to come out of their materials. A wood carving is already in the wood - the artist allows it to be revealed. When I write music, I often scrap some approaches, because that isn't what the music (which seems to have a life of its own) is "saying" to me. So to complete the analogy, we are the clay.  It is up to us as to whether we allow God to reveal in us all that we can be.

I am around, Elanorgold!  And while I love the idea of God as a weaver, there's definitely a touch of potter too.

I LOVE pottery.  I actually took a course while in Scotland about ceramics from an archaeological perspective, and it was one of my favourite classes from my four years of University.  I've even considered taking up ceramics as a serious hobby. 

There's something complex and simple about clay.  All it really is is the right kind of dirt, mixed with a bit of water.  All it takes is your hands to make something of it, and a little fire to make it last.  But it's a complex balance of variables to make it perfect.  The right temper, the right slip or clay, the right air in the kiln, the right shape and preparations.  One false move on a wheel and what you've spent 10 minutes creating is gone.  Of course, you can create it again, but it's never quite the same.

No wonder the idea of us humans being clay is such an incredible analogy.  Ultimately we all come from the same place, the same kiln... the same maker.  But the variables for each and every one of us can be so, so different.

We always have choices, even if it seems like we don't.

Every choice we make cuts off future choices, are influenced by prior choices, and open up new future choices.

We are moldable clay in that we can change ourselves actively.  The clay part is that part of ourselves that stays the same in some sense.

Since we are co-creators...we are born to be Divine Messiahs...we mold ourselves and, thusly, we mold the World.

G_d is us is G_d is us is G_d is us in a never-ending endless self-referential loop.  The frame brackets the background, the background is necessary for the frame's existence.

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

Michaelangelo also said the sculpture was allready in the stone waiting to be released by the sculptor, the excess removed. I don't know who said it first.

Faeren, I envy you that cource you had in Scotland! Oh but I saw so many wonderful old things in Scotland. Scara Brae, Calanish, the Norse Mill and Kiln, the ring of Brogar, iron age and neolithic ruins... Ahhhh Scotland. And the tweed, ah the tweed!

Another image from Michelangelo to consider....

I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.

In a way, I envy YOU, Elanorgold!  I didn't actually see a whole lot of Scotland.  I mean, I did, but I was studying there, so my memories are less touristy and more domestic - like grocery stores and Glaswegian pubs, etc.    I only visited Edinburgh twice... and it was only 40 min. train ride away!  Heck, I commute that every morning!

Back to clay - it was an incredible course.  We worked with Orkney clay, which was strangely green and we learned that our professor had been trying to figure out what the fires that fired them were fueld with using experimental archaeology.  We also visited the Glasgow School of the Arts for a couple classes, and tried our hand at the wheel.

But back to clay - I reread the original post and realized that I didn't quite answer what was asked.  To me, the analogy of clay and humans is not always a static ceramic ware; but also, that we are given a mind that can change and be molded throughout our lives.  Our externals are fired and fixed; our internals are forever malleable, giving us the potential to change as little or as much as we want to/need to.  Clay, if unfired, can be rehydrated if it dries out.  It only changes irrevocably when it is baked.  And then - it lasts for incredible amounts of time.

To further extend the metaphor:

clay is made up of simple materials.  We are made up of simple materials that comes from the death of stars.

Nature/G_d/The Cosmic Muffin/etc. takes this and moulds us.  And if you've ever worked with clay, it is a dirty business :3

And the throwing of the clay is a very interactive experience.  You have to pay attention, or else "unintended consequences" might result ;3  When your hands are on the clay, they get dirty, they get wet, you feel the clay (so it isn't just you doing the clay throwing, but the clay is giving you feedback), and you might have to every so often wet the clay further.  You find out which movements cause which shapes, often the movements are DELICATE.  Then you have to decide 'when to stop' the throwing.  You cut it off.  Then decide for how long to fire it and what glaze(s) to put on it.

The more you do it, the better you become at it.

What comes out, after the firing, and the glazing, is something different, that wasn't in the original materials, and beautiful.

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

Innana, sounds like you're pretty familiar with clayworking!

LB, yeah, that's what I meant!

Faeren, Oh I hope you get a chance to go back and explore as a tourist. I spent 10 months there. It was such an momentous time in my life, as was the time I spent in England! I love Canada, but ya know...we just don't have the archaeology!