The thousands of gods that have come and gone over the years have been an attempt to describe the Devine, or the Source of All That Is.     However The Devine, or Source, or God, or the Spirit or whatever you wish to call it, is undescribable. While man can have an experience of,  or connection to this,  it is almost  impossible to describe this experience to someone who has not had this experience in terms that he can understand.  People can and do experience the Devine(God) in different ways and so there will never be a consensus as to what God is.  

I like Innawhimsey's quote " It doesn't matter if God exists or not because all I can ever know are my experiences ( and any experience I have of God belongs to me) Those are all that I can work with. Ferinstance, even if God is supposed to be Omnipotent, all I can work with is non-omnipotent, because that is what I experience."

 what he said...

different Christians will have different answers, but some of us see the Divine as more than the stories we've grown up on, and more than the stories others have grown up on.  We have just followed the path of Christian traditions as we have learned, to a certain point, and then some of us begin to explore others' experiences.

The end result is recognition of an ongoing journey that at times leads us away from a connection to *God* and at other times, takes us closer.

 There is a realy amazing work of fiction out there about what happened to all the old gods, with Odin being the main protaganist.

check out "Amreican Gods" by Neil Gaiman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gods

Hi Star Stuff:

For me, God is the self-generative universe, in a state of synthesis. (And I am a Christian!)

In such a universe, there is either only one God (the uinverse itself), or no God at all (because there is no supernatural creator outside the universe), or any number of Gods (because everything is God), and all three possibilities are equally probable.

Take your pick! 

But what good does it do to entertain a "magic" hypothesis, without a shred of evidence.  Isn't a purely naturalistic explanation satisfying enough?  Isn't it enough to enjoy the beauty of a garden without suggesting the existance of fairies within it?

Question:  Is the existance of what we can observe made easier or harder to explain by suggesting the existance of things which we cannot observe?

Cheers.

Hi Star Stuff:

The truth of any observation (and this is true for general observations as well as scientific observations) is determined by the viewpoint of the observer, and this viewpoint is arbitrarily chosen by the observer. In other words, by choosing his viewpoint, the observer chooses the truth of his or her observation.

I have no supernatural beliefs. To me, the natural is supernal. I experience nature as divine.

Fortunately, this is not how science works. 

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You're still stuck on the idea of the supernatural.  I don't use the word god but I can still see beauty in the world and see that it is good.  I find sacredness in relationships.  My life is enhanced by community.  I feel better when I live in justice.  Christianity (as well as many other religions) embody these values.  Why do you wish to limit and explain them by a supernatural experience?  I find that sad that sacredness is only available through magic for you...cms

I don't limit or explain those things by the supernatural, the religious do by claiming that those things are only possible by a "personal relationship" with god.  Have you not come across these people?

What do you mean by the word sacred?  If you mean appreciating life and embracing the wonder of it all, I certainly do exercise that constantly.

Certainly I have but more often than not, I don't.  Most of the Christians with whom I'm in relationship don't have a supernatural understanding of the sacred.

That is as good a definition as any.  For me, sacredness is that which I deem worthy.  It is beauty, love, kindness, compassion, joy, etc... See; we've found some common ground...cms

Star Stuff,"So, I'm curious; of the thousands of gods which have come & gone, why do christians believe that their particular god is real?  Is it because you were raised to believe it?  Is it because it just happens to be the popular religion in your culture or country?  Is it because the church provides a very real sense of community and belonging?  If so, do you feel that these are good reasons?  If so, do you regard them as good reasons for the person who was raised in an Islamic family & country and believes that all other religious believers are infidels?"
 

Despite how we limit God with our understanding. God will continue to exist as he is and always has been. We are all from God.

Your not from Zeus?  Are you sure?

What do you mean when you say "god"?

See...now there is an idea that I do not believe - and yet we are both from a christian tradition.  For me, sacredness is not unchanging but rather discovered anew with each person and may be different for each person.  I can say that we are all connected but not that we are all from God.  Perhaps, though, this can be one in the same...cms

Star Stuff,"What do you mean when you say "god"?"

The Alpha and Omega, the monad of monads, the big Kahuna

Atheisto,"Your not from Zeus?  Are you sure?"

It's only language and human understanding that makes you ask that question.

That doesn't help me understand what you mean when you say god.  Would you be so kind as to try again?

I believe God is beyond my understanding simply because there are things that will only be answered after we die.

God, (within my limited worldly understanding) is the beginning of all things and the presence that enables all things to continue.

That is an assumtion that there is an afterlife (which there is absolutely no evidence for), so it is merely wishful thinking.  See, no matter how much you want something to be so, no matter how comforting it is, no matter how long or strongly you believe it, that doesn't make it so.  You believe it by faith, and faith is believing things for which there is no evidence.

Forgive my bluntness, but you have't explained anything here.  You've merely pulled the handy "god-did-it" out of thin air.

[/quote]

Star Stuff,"You believe it by faith, and faith is believing things for which there is no evidence."

The evidence comes from lives that are changed for the better. Faith welcomes that change.

I have watched the video. The quotes which book end the videos by Roberts and Dawkins make no sense. They really are just grasping at straws. The fact that one believes in only one God does not make them an atheist in regards to all the other gods. That is quite an illogical conclusion.

What distubs me is one of the comments left by one of the veiwers. Absoultely filthy, sick and disgusting.

It's just that Zeus is older....do you not respect your peers?  I mean if Zeus is older than god...that means that he must be wiser than your god right with all this accumulated wisdom and whatnot.  See how this gets ridiculous quite quickly?

OK..interesting.  I have to go eat my unicorn testicles now. Ta ta.

Who says Zeus is older than God. Zeus was born, Yaweh has always existed.

Enjoy your testicles.

Ahhh how do you know god always existed?  Because he told you?  If he told you to stick your head in an oven would you?  Apparently he told Charles Manson to kill a crapload of people...so was that a divine act?

What if Zeus told me he always existed but even longer than god?  Hmm?

Lets battle with imaginary friends.!!!!  Like Pokemon.

Believe what you want.

In the Greek myth, Zeus' mother hid him because his father Cronus wanted to eat him. Zeus had a mommy and a daddy. God says in His word that He is the Alpha and Omega, which I believe.

Atheisto, why do you assume that Zeus is older than God? Are you assuming that I believe God came into existence with Christianity? or any other religion for that matter?

Atheisto,"Apparently he told Charles Manson to kill a crapload of people...so was that a divine act?"

No. Does Pol Pot represent what you believe?

This might be a good time to watch this:

.

So Sam Harris does not believe in absolute truth. This video proves nothing.

Did god tell Pol Pot to kill?

god is the "A" and the "O".  That's a bit cryptic?  What if Zeus was the "X" and the "Y"...it either means he was a Coldplay fan or maybe he's playing Scrabble?

So...what about Zeus's father's father's father's father....etc etc etc..you get the picture...?

Getting any Alice in Wonderland images yet?  Mad Hatter?  Cheshire Cat?  No?

Nope.

When god said he is the A and the O...was he collecting blood?  Just wondering.

Alpha and Omega. the First and the Last. The Begining and the End. Ever lasting Father. Eternal God. God who is, and was and ever shall be.

Why? Do you find yourself in need of some?

Atheisto,"Did god tell Pol Pot to kill?"

And your point is?

God tells many serial killers to kill apparently.  Just an observation.

Silly argument really. I thought your reasonings would have more substance.

Gosh no...silly arguments without substance?  How dare I? ;)

This ties in beautifully with this thread:

Laughed so hard my ribs hurt.

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"The imagination is a spiritual apparatus, a luminous explorer of the world it discovers. The imagination fixes and gives clear life to fragments of the invisible reality where man is stirring...

The imagination merely discovers things already created, it does not invent, and whenever it does so it is defeated by the beauty of reality. The imagination hunts for images using tried and true techniques of the hunt. The mechanics of poetic imagination are always the same: a concentration, a leap, a flight, a return with the treasure, and a classification and selection of what has been brought back...

The imagination is limited by reality: one cannot imagine what does not exist. It needs objects, landscapes, numbers, planets, and it requires the purest form of logic to relate those things to one another. The imagination hovers over reason the way fragrance hovers over a flower, wafted on the breeze but tied, always, to the ineffable center of its origin."

--From a lecture entitled "Imagination, Inspiration, Evasion," by Frederico Garcia Lorca, reconstructed and translated by Christopher Maurer from newspaper accounts published between 1928 and 1930. It appeared in issue 7 of Jubilat and is included in Sebastian's Arrows: Letters and Mementos of Salvador Dali and Federico Garcia Lorca, by Swan Isle Press.

"Religions are, by definition, metaphors, after all: God is a dream, a hope, a woman, an ironist, a father, a city, a house of many rooms, a watchmaker who left his prize chronometer in the desert, someone who loves you -- even, perhaps, against all evidence, a celestial being whose only interest is to make sure your football team, army, business, or marriage thrives, prospers, and triumphs over all opposition.

Religions are places to stand and look and act, vantage points from which to view the world."

--from Neil Gaiman's American Gods

“Whenever people are certain they understand our peculiar situation here on this planet, it is because they have accepted a religious Faith or a secular Ideology (Ideologies are the modern form of Faiths) and just stopped thinking.”

--- Robert Anton Wilson

“Ideas are mallable and unstable; they not only can be misused, they invite misuse---and the better the idea the more volatile it is. That's because only the better ideas turn into dogma, and it is by this process whereby a fresh, stimulating, humanly helpful idea is changed into robot dogma that is deadly. The problem starts at the secondary level, not with the originator or developer of the idea, but with the people who are attracted to it, until the last nail breaks, and who invariably lack the overview, flexibility, imagination, and, most importantly, sense of humor to maintain it in the spirit in which it was hatched. Ideas are made by masters, dogmas by disciples, and the Buddha is always killed on the road.”

--Tom Robbins

Mirroring,

Inannawhimsey

What people have worshiped over the year are aspects of the devine.

For me Christanity is a method to know the devine.  There are many paths to understand the devine but they ultimately lead to the same place.

If you are suggesting, Star Stuff, that unless there is a universal religion with a universal truth it is invalid, thats like suggesting haiku can't be beautiful because it is Japanese poetry and English poetry never developed a form of poetry exactly like it.

Religion is like art, tied to culture, but expressing universal truths

Religion is like art; it's an interpretation of belief that makes the viewer think. But as a scientist, your extending that to the expression of "universal truths" smacks of arrogance to me.

Shame. You almost gave us some common ground to stand on there.

"We must be clear that when it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images and establishing mental connections."

--Niels Bohr

"There is no quantum world. There is only an abstract physical description. It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out how nature is. Physics concerns what we can say about nature..."

--Niels Bohr

But of course, what we have is people battlin' it out over "My imagination is more Real than yours is!" And then, in this age and area of literalism (of Ideology and Religion), we have whole peoples who aren't even trained in the use of their imagination (and so are vulnerable to anyone who has any skill at it a'tall), so that the whole issue becomes even more intractable...

Mirroring,

Inannawhimsey

ps. jokes help keep me young and from becoming too comfortable with belief

“The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.”

--- Robert Anton Wilson

I like your views