Well that was...short.

I can't stand the suspense.  Do we now know the exact number of paths to God?  Let me guess:  Three.  Three is not "many", and it is not "one".  Besides, we were just talking about the Trinity in another thread, and the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch (for which the number 3 is very important), so my guess is three paths to God.  Three paths to God would finish the trifecta of three.

Edit:  Wait!  There is a link in there!  I didn't see it until I moused over it.  I haven't clicked on it yet.  I hope the answer is three...

You  are so getting cited in a future sermon, GR. In my thoughts on the "life as a journey" metaphor, I've been pushing the idea of moving away from a "commute" model, where we are just trying to get from the beginning to the end of the journey and focussing very much on the destination, towards a "tourist" or "voyage of exploration" model, where the goal in learn about and experience life fully by taking the road less travelled and exploring new places (i.e. new ideas, new stories, new truths, and so on). The sermon I did on the subject was called "Exploring the Dark Cave of Life" and, alas, it was one that I preached from talking points and have never fully written out else I would post it in my blog on WC as a response to your piece. I think your metaphor fits beautifully with where I've been going recently, though, and if I ever revisit that sermon, I'll have to take account of your metaphor and work it in somehow.

Mendalla

Well, if God does not exist, then neither many paths to God nor one path to God will lead to God. Then no path can possibly lead to the nonexistent God.

But what if God is ineffable or incomprehensible? What if, as in unitheism, everything is God? Then no path can possibly lead to God because we are God.

Getting IT

IT is we; we are IT.

We can't comprehend IT without experiencing IT,

But we can experience IT without comprehending IT—

For we are IT!

IT reveals everything;

IT explains nothing.

The interpretations

Of ITs revelations,

Are our creations.

Awesome essay, GoldenRule.   I especially appreciated the part where you said that we are as much with God in our own little stream as out in the ocean depths, but there is so much we won't experience if we stay there.  I never quite thought of it that way before - thanks.   Now my fish tank will have a whole new significance for me - and I'm quite serious in saying that!

Great article, GR, thanks for sharing it.  Hope you don't mind that I stuck it onto FB page.  Like Mendalla, it'll likely find its way into a future sermon here, too.  Thanks again.

That is a very good metaphor.  In fact as I was reading your essay it donned on me that there is no destination, only journey.  Time never stops so how can we have a destination? Destination implies accomplishment and finality.  An End.  There is no end of finality to time.  And if the universe will continue to big bang and big crunch and big bang and big crunch then there will be no destination.  Because time would effectively be infinite and so to would the journey be infinite.  Which is totally in line with your metaphor.  I also like your metaphor because like the ocean, our journies can be poluted.

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan mubarak

-Omni

As you should have learned long ago, hansen, the answer is always 42.

I like that approach David. The desire to gather experiences seems to be a trait that most people share. I think that's even more relevant to us in a spiritual sense than it is from a "summer vacation" sense.

I usually work the same way - adapting the specifics as I see the makeup and response of the people gathered. Don't hesitate to add your thoughts though, either here or in the discussion stream of the article itself. There are 75 or so people who follow it "officially" and the more the ideas are expanded on the better.

DAvid

I think that we're pretty much in sync here Arm. For me, I'd say we are "part of" God, rather than that we "are" God, but I think that's where you're going as well.

I also think that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts - panentheistic rather than pantheistic.

What do you think?

DAvid

You're quite welcome Diana. I'm glad that you commented on that. It's the reason that I have no hesitation in acknowledging the validity of the beliefs of folks like ac or jae. If we are all "immersed" in "God", then there is something of God in all of the "places" where we are.

DAvid

Thanks rb. Of course I don't mind. That's why my essays all have those little "share this" buttons on them.

Bingo.

An aspect that I hadn't thought of at the time but wonderfully appropriate. Something I'd like to touch on in a followup piece I'm thinking of if you wouldn't mind.

David

Beauty essay, David.  I especially liked:

"There aren’t many paths to God. Nor is there just one path to God. There is only learning about the limitless diversity in the ocean of Creation that is still only a partial expression of all that God is."

Beauty.  If we are all waves in this great ocean of diversity, we are individual in a certain sense but in it together in an "ocean" sense...

I also like the metaphor in a panentheistic sense because we are made of water (pantheism) and we are surrounded by water (panentheism). Or perhaps one could consider the sky or the land the panentheistic hook.  Seeing as it's "seperate" from the "ocean". 

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan Mubarak

-Omni

Well and succinctly put my friend.

I think I like the first one best, Omni. The second is too easily interpreted as God's transcendent aspect being separate from us.

The first image means (to me at least) that while we can know the "water" of which we're made, and we can experience elements of the water around us, we never comprehend the scope and complexity of the "ocean."  And yet, we're never "separate" from it in the way a fish would be separate from the land or the sky.

What do you think?

DAvid 

Beautiful and I agree with pretty much every word. 

I concur, God can be above us, but will forever be linked to us because we are one with God in the way that the same atoms that make up the fish make up the land.

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan Mubarak

-Omni

GR,

Two points captured my interest.

1. Its' the journey - not the destination.

     Whatever we perceive the destination - it's static.

      (Call it Eternal Life, Heaven, or just plain dead).

     The journey is about constant movement - it's name is life. With movement comes     change   - and with change comes much to engage our interest.

2. The water metaphor.

     On my recent Canadian trip I came from the driest continent, to a country that has 20% of the world's fresh water. As Canadians, you can't imagine my fascination with seeing so MUCH water - I stared wide-eyed with wonder.

It's contrast that makes us notice, and contrast involves seeking distant places and peoples.

By the way, GR, I looked out for you at the Town Hall in Kingston - and when I didn't see you - I walked down to your picturesque waterfront. 

I like that. To be "alive" is to be on the journey. No problem taking a rest now and again to enjoy the view from wherever we are, but eventually we need to strap on the backpack, lace up the hiking boots, and get going again. (and I know I'm sidetracking my own metaphor but I can't think of an equivalent fishy alternative - I'll have to go back and watch Finding Nemo again)

An excellent point. I think that's one reason that some are afraid to "travel." They're comfortable with where they are and are afraid of the consequences of "noticing." Something we can all relate to at some point in our lives I think.

Yes, I'm sooo sorry about that. I sent you an email apologizing. I almost never have problems stepping away from my home office since our entire group is distributed across the country. That was one of a handful of days when I ended up on a conference call I couldn't get out of. I went to the waterfront as soon as I was off, but your bus was long gone (there's gotta be another column about metaphor in that )

David

I especially liked the metaphor of God being our ocean.

Thank you MOS and Witch

Hi David:

Yes, of course, the whole is incomprehensibly greater than the sum of its parts.

Although a human cell is an inseparable part of the human body, the human organism is far greater than the sum of the 15 billion or so cells of which it consists. Similarly, a human cell consists of billions of molecules, all inseparably connected, but a whole cell is far greater than the sum of its molecules.

Although we humans are an inseparable part of the cosmic totality, the totality is far greater than the sum of everything. In comparison to the totality, we humans could well be what a human cell is to the human organism, or even a molecule to the human organism.

Yes, this probably is panentheism rather than pantheism, but even pantheists agree that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. To me, all of these modern Gnostic-type theisms like panentheism, pantheism, unitheism and holotheism are pretty much along the same line.

Our brain is almost infinitely creative, as self-creative in nature as the self-creative cosmos that created it. In us humans, the self-creative cosmos, a.k.a. God, evolved a self-creative organ. This does not make sense in terms of strictly traditional Darwinian evolutionary theory, because, so far, our creative brain proved to be more of a detriment than a benefit to our species, a handicap that is threatening to do us in. Unless, of course, we put our godly and creative organ to godly and creative use and strive to become as creative and creatively and wholistically active as the self-creative totality that created it.

I like the metaphor  of ocean as well. It makes me think of leaving a shore and arriving at another. But people are also leaving the further shore and and arriving at this shore. We meet on the journey or we pass on the journey or we wave on the journey but the journey is always ongoing. We all experience God(in one way or another) on the voyage.

Beautiful essay David. Thanks for posting it. I wonder if there's a correlation between the oceans covering 70-75% of the earth and our own bodies being 70-75% water? We are as sacred and blessed as the earth and each other. We are connected!

Puts a whole new spin on baptism, doesn't it? Esp. the immersion baptism. A symbol of how we are immersed in God from our days and of how we ritually commit ourselves to that relationship through the baptism. .

Mendalla

Made in the image of the creator indeed eh Arminius?

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan mubarak

-Omni

Ships passing in the night???   

My favourite part of "journeying" is to not have the journey itself set - it's always interesting to experience changes in plans for one reason or another.  Something on a route may suggest itself as a place to visit, while not being on the original itinerary, and to miss out on or ignore the impulse to travel there may mean missing out on something very special - an experience that takes one out of the ordinary and transports one to something that challenges, or uplifts or inspires or maybe even disappoints.

It's the same with God - it is good to have a relationship that is "open" to travelling where the spirit or the call leads.  Often we find God off the beaten path and are richer for that experience.

I really like your essay, David, and especially the ocean images, since being on oceans and some form of water - lakes, rivers, islands surrounded by water  - has become an essential part of my life.  Sometimes the seas are calm, sometimes they are in turmoil - like our relationship with God and each other.

Thanks! I missed it! Found it. An excellent metaphore-changer. I liked the 'many paths up the mountain' but GR's is far better...

(Sing-song) Chanson's got water-wings, Chanson's got water-wings...

I think to be a really poignant symbol of GR's concept of living immersed in God, the Minister baptizing you would have to immerse you.... then hold you down.

good read, i enjoyed it

the destination I would say is the product of the journey

sounds to me like God knows what hes doing afterall

I'm loving all the extended metaphors here!! Brilliant!

As someone who has always lived near water, indeed one who seeks it out, the metaphor resonated deeply for me.

We recently got HD TV and since the best thing, actually the only good thing IMHO, about HD is the nature programming I have been watching a number of programmes on the ocean.  Almost all of them mention that we - that is the human we - have discovered only 5% of the oceanic world.  New discoveries are being made all the time, particularly in the deep sea.

There was some fellow - whose name I can't remember as my memory is like the ocean, vast and unfathomable even to myself - but I do remember him saying that we go about exploring the deep sea in the wrong way: descending with noisy machinery and bright lights, thinking that disturbing a dark silent world will return results.  He developed a vessel that travels quietly with minimal light and thus discovers a world not seen before, not because it was not there but because it fled from the blinding light.

We humans understand so little about our world and ourselves that whether we want to acknowledge it or not, we are all on a journey and the destination is unknown.  If we can acknowledge this reality, perhaps we could prevent the absolutist blundering and the destruction of things we have not seen because we blind ourselves to the possibility of the unknown.

Also wanted to say, thank you David, this was a wonderful read.

LB - current destination - late for work!

An excellent metaphor.

This may be a bit of a digression (when has that ever stopped us?) but I wanted to pick up on this.

I'm no expert on evolution, but it seems to me that there are crisis points in the development of every species where they either exceed the previous limits of their development or they become fossils. Fish, in drying pools, developed the ability to get oxygen out of a much thinner medium - air - than they were used to. They learned to use their fins to push around on dirt, etc. Conversely, if I recall correctly, whales reversed the pattern and went back to the water.

Not all were successful, even within the species of course. Only a few would survive the challenge to adapt.

So I'm not so sure that it's out of line, even in a survival-of-the-fittest sense, to say that our current need to, as you put it, "put our godly and creative organ to use", isn't an evolutionary step. 

There will be casualties - the extremes of all persuasions will survive only in isolated pockets as they're too specialized for the changing societal "climate". But overall, those who adapt will, as with other evolutionary changes, advance the collective quality of the pool.

Okay, ramble mode off.

DAvid

Hi crazyH. I think what I like most about this image is that it leads to us each experiencing the other's "place" at some point. We journey from where we are, to where others have been, and learn something about them, God, and ourselves in the process.

As long as there are lots of waves so that we get soaked in the "ocean of God" as we go along

David

Thanks gecko. And, like those wonderful whale pictures you have, quite often the most wonderful and amazing things remain out of sight until they surprise us with an appearance. Learning to value what may be hidden is also, I think, an essential spiritual step.

David

I just wanted to hold this up and add an amen 

I couldn't think of a better way to end my string of responses than by quoting this. My best smile of the day.

Thanks fellas

David

Hi David:

Yes, it is a digression, though not a derailment—yet.

If we indeed were created in the image of our ultimate creator, what does that say about us?

I think it means that we, like our ultimate creator, were created as ultimate creators. And our ultimately creative organ is our magnificient, mysterious and nearly limitlessly creative brain. This relates to "destinations and journeys" and "paths to God" because it is our creative brain that enables those journeys.

If we, as a species, go extinct because we misuse our creative power, then it is not really because we have reached the limits of our potential. It is because we have not yet lived up to our potential! We have not yet realized our creative and godly potential.

The dilemma of our species is that we possess the godly power of creativenss but (mis)use it for egocentric, ethnocentric, and anthropocentric purposes. Creativeness without godly awareness, conscience, and consciousness seems to bring about the downfall of our species.

There may have been similar species in the universe who have reached this critical threshold in their development, and abused their godly potential and destroyed themselves. There may also have been species who lived up to the challenge, overcame the pitfalls, and learned to use their godly and creative powers in a godly manner.

It think it is of crucial importance to us humans to start thinking and acting along the lines of godly responsibilty and creativeness. We are threatened with "speciescide." Believing in God won't save our species, but thinking and acting in a godly manner will.

Now, there is a journey worth contemplating.

I think that's a wonderful way to look at it wf.

The Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hahn said We are here to awaken from the illusion of our separateness . That, it seems to me, is a perfect way to look at it. We think there's no connection, one to the other, when in reality we live inside the connection.

(Hansen, I underlined and bolded the link for you this time)

oh pshaw. You're gonna turn my head if you keep on   .....

but thank you just the same

One thing I like about this metaphor as I meditate on it more is that I haven't come across many really good metaphors in my reading about process theology and panentheism. Metaphors, that is, that are very accessible and that aren't couched in pages of intellectual discussion. Yes, that kind of theology has a place, but if you want a theological position to be understood and accepted by a broader audience, intellectual discussions won't cut it. This one captures much of the essence of panentheism in a very simple and accessible image. And yet, it's not too simplistic, either. One can delve into it, finding new meanings in it and ways to explain various facets of faith with it.

Mendalla

Mendalla triggered, and this whole thread brings to my mind, part of the lyrics from my all time favourite song, Trumpets by The Waterboys

Your life is like an ocean
Yes, your life is like an ocean
I want to dive in naked
Lose myself in your depths
I want to be with you
To find myself in the best of dreams
Your love feels like trumpets
 

It would make a great panentheistic hymn as would any Waterboy song, IMHO, as they are very life affirming in a grand sweeping manner but I digress.

Yes, the illusion of separateness is the worst of our many illusions beause it prevents us from realizing our innate interconnectedness and godliness.

Emphasizing the separate supernatural God, and the separate individual, has been the biggest failing of Western religion and culture.

Good points from everyone above.

David, I totally understand your metaphor about the being surrounded by the “ocean” of God’s Spirit. Recognizing, accepting and living with the illusion of separateness is the key to it all, it's the key to living without suffering.

Thus the journey, of recognizing, accepting and living within this illusion of separateness , carves out our path to the destination. We look outwards to the stars and think they are so far away and not a part of us. When if fact what we are looking at is the inner workings of a greater whole. Seeing this and envisioning this is the key to Brotherhood, the Oneness of Humanity.

This type of thinking, imagining, is what being spiritual is truly about. It has nothing to do with religions. When Christ said to love thy neighbour it was because He recognized that we are all surrounded by this "ocean" of togetherness. There is no true separation between you and me. It's all an illusion.

With this said, however, I still think that the metaphor of the mountain has it's place in our thinking, (think of the mountain as being on an island, surrounded by the ocean!).

The metaphor of climbing the mountain also contains your thoughts of the journey carving out our path to enlightenment. There are many ways of climbing a mountain. Some may take the easy way, the well trodden path that spirals around and around but eventually reaches the top. Some may find their own way, which is much harder but reaches the summit much faster. All paths lead to God. This is the evolution of consciousness, of awareness. This is the unfolding of the soul.

And the summit of the mountain itself has much more meaning than a simple destination. It is the centre of the circle, the hub of the wheel, the one part of creation that is constant and not affected by the storm of illusion that surrounds it. From this pinnacle one can see for miles and miles. It's a heightened state of awareness, of enlightenment. It is God awareness.  When Jesus experienced the Transfiguration on the mountain He became radiant, enlightened. He experienced God first hand.

Keep up the good work David, it's always a pleasure to read your writings.

digressions are allowed, always

Thanks David.

One of the reasons that I told Geo sincerely that he had been helpful to me was that it was in following a couple of his attempts to discredit the "many paths/mountain" metaphor that I realized where the weakness really was - not in the "paths" but in the image of being "on" the mountain rather than part of it, and in the companion question that came to mind - where do we go once we reach the peak?

Hi Arm.

I want to respond to both you and Neo but I don't have time to do it properly tonight. As we used to say in the old days of unreliable TV broadcasts - "Please stand by." (you can also pull up a chair if needed)

Digression Alert.....

Thank you for posting Trumpets GR, I had never been able to find a decent version on line before and my CD has disappeared!