Some people personify God. God talks to them.... Some people personify the devil. One good, one evil.... White hat, black hat....

What are you missing? Maybe centuries of church teachings. LOL

Didn't the church teach that God was some old white haired bearded guy in the sky and the devil was some horned res guy with a pitchfork in a place surrounded by fire?

Didn't they teach that God talks to you and the devil tempts you and all that?  I cannot say I have often seen a fundy say anything that was not a part of mainstream theology at some point..... Our memories just seem short....

I had this experience.

I invited a Puppet Group from an fundamentalist Evangelical Church to bring their ministry to our United Church . The puppets were excellent. The music was great. The language left a lot to be desired but...........

They set up before church and the service started. Before anyone could head her off the Woman that was with them was at the mic. She thanked us for inviting them and told the packed house that they should look after their children because the devil was in the streets and ready to grab them. Gasp?

That week I had several calls  fr4om parents saying that they had to field questions all week from their kids. Who is the devil? Where in the streets is the devil? Why will the devil grab them.

I think I can say, with some assuredness, that the United Church does not teach Devil stuff in church school or from the pulpit.They were not invited back again. Were we wrong?

you are missing the fact that the devil is a lie from the devil.

And that in its self, breaktown, is not a lie from the devil. Rather the truth from Jesus.

Hi crazyheart:

There is a Satanic conspiracy underway to take over the world. Spreading the conviction that Satan doesn't exist is part of that conspiracy.

Satan convinces us that he doesn't exists because then he has an easier time taking over our souls. One has to believe in Satan as the anti-Christ, and in Jesus as the Christ, in order to safeguard oneself against that. If we don't believe in Satan as the anti-Christ, then he's got us where he wants us.

The Satanic conspiracy theory has beeen around for centuries. The medieval Church regarded it as its foremost Christian duty to exterminate all conspirators of Satan. Freethinkers, heretics, and other conspirators of Satan were exceuted by the thousands over the years, to no avail. Evil continued unabated. It appears that Satan is winning out, and the final battle between the Forces of Good and Evil is just around the corner. 2012 maybe?

The above, of course, was written in jest. But it was no joke for heretics like me who were executed not so long ago in the name of preventing evil.

Yeah well, we are in a spiritual battle, it helps to know who the enemy is & how the enemy works.

I don't realy like talking about him but it is essential as he is very much a part of this whole picture that is painted by the Creator.

Just as it takes spiritual disernment to speak of the ways of God it is important to use this same disernment with regards to the enemy. To see the truth about this enemy.

If you believe that Jesus is the truth & speaks nothing but the truth, then one should understand that when Jesus speaks of the deciever, He isn't lieing.

Bolt

I don't realy like talking about him but it is essential as he is very much a part of this whole picture that is painted by the Creator. - Bolt

"him" = is that a living thing?

I see where you are going with this, I see the other post regarding gender.

The bible refers to satan as a "he" but he isn't a man. But a fallen angel. I beleive the angels are a living thing, but gender isn't realy important in this age is it?

Actually in the spirit realm there is no importance of gender at all, is there?

Women who minister in this age are respected as much as men, at least I would hope so, & the reason I believe that in many instances in the bible where it refers to women as lower than men is because of the poor attitude of man towards women in that age.

Women were not taken seriously at all back then & realy didn't play a part in the writng of the inspired word of God, so this gender bias is a result of attitude that existed in that age.

At least this is how I see it.

Bolt

getting off the gender thing.. if thats alright. like it was just said, gender doesnt really matter.

i tihnk the devil is important in what peple believe and do because he can put negative  impacts on people's lives. he was represented by the snake in like the first four chapters i nthe bible. he manipulates. he didnt tell eve to eat the fruit. he told her WHY she should eat the fruit.... aaaaah yes. tricky tricky persuasiveness. and in the book of job, he tested job. alot. he killed his family and destroyed everything job owned. he made job sick. i dont know about you, but if this happened to me i would be doing a little more than grieving in the dirt. id probably be so hopeless. the devil is huge for people when it comes to blaming their faults on someone. the only thing is.. well. i used that excuse when i was six because i broke one of our cups in the kitchen. its an easy way to get out of things. i think people need to take responsibility for their faults.

unless its true and they are really possessed by some demonic entity. god is of Light. hes not going to be possessing anyone with demons. the devil, on the other hand, would do that.

The above, of course, was written in jest. But it was no joke for heretics like me who were executed not so long ago in the name of preventing evil.

what do you mean?

Breaktown, do you truly believe that people can be posessed by demons?  If you do, then can they  be posessed by angels too? 

I have a list of questions as long as your arm that I'd like to have answered about demons.  The idea is just so fascinating and ludacris at the same time to me. So...I think too much, but one thing that I wonder is this:  if it is possible for one to be possessed by a demon or the devil, what happens to the soul that occupies your body while it's being posessed? Is it Where did it come from?

When I was in college (Baptist college) there was a kid there who supposedly was playing with a Ouija board and became posessed. There was an exorcist and everything.  I didn't see it with my own eyes but I wondered the next day why in the world no -one asked any qeustions of said demon. ie. how old are you? Where do you live? Do you know Satan personally? did you know him when he was an angel?  I could go on all afternoon....Am I the only one who wonders about this stuff?

Bolt, I am interested  to see instances in the bible where it refers to women as lower than men.

I feel that the devil has portayed Scripture that way to cause dissention but I haven't seen it. I have seen Scripture that people have taken the wrong way because they haven't read it in context or studied the biblical history around it. Could you provide me with an example!

Thanks.

Be Blessed,

IB

 The greatest trick Satan has ever pulled was to convince people he doesn't exist.

Bolt, I am in agreement with you.  We are to know HOW the enemy works but not to discuss it ad nauseum as it gives the enemy glory. And to blame EVERYTHING on him is to give him credit which 'he' also likes.

CNWKaren, when faced with a demonic power we are not to be talking with them or asking them questions  as it give them doorway into our own lives.

Have you read "The Screwtape Letters"? Very interesting.

Not to butt in, but I think I have a pretty legit answer to these type of questions.

I don't see necessarily angels and demons, rather holyness and evil. When people say they're "possesed by demons," I think they are possesed by evil. Angels and demons are just physical manifestations of good and evil, just like God sometimes reveals himself to people as a man or woman, when he really is just love.

I think when you become possesed by a demon, you perspective on everything around you is... altered to be one of evil. When someone is possesed by a demon, you get an insight into hell and satan, just like when someone is spiritually possesed by angels and the spirit of God, they can often give you insight into God, love, heaven, Jesus, and all things good.

This is all my opinion, I haven't lived quite long enough to explore the concrete truth yet.

Arent those two statements a little contradictory? If he succeeded and convinced people he didnt exist... why would he like the fact that people give him credit for things that go wrong? ......................  

For that matter, where did we learn what he likes and dislikes, did and did not do, anyway? 

Actually if you want to read a more modern book that is a take off on the Screwtape letters, I would recommend to you:

To My Dear Slimeball

--Rich Miller

ISBN: 9781565071872

it was not written in jest at all!!! im serious. i take it lightly perhaps because ive only lived for 16 years. i only know what i hear and what ive felt. i know its real because of what people say and things i remeber. we were doing a women-self-image course at my church like seven years ago. i forget why i was there. but i remeber a girl was sobbing because something in her refused to accept she was beautiful in god's eyes. it was deceit. people came and prayed over her to hear god and see herself as he saw her and that this deciet in her would be gone. she was taken from the room and then there was alot of screaming. she growled too. and  then i dont know what happened next. no one would tell me cause i was nine, but i know that that was not who she was. she was posssesed but a very literal lie. and i trust events that happened in the bible. like Legion, the demon, for example. He was a man possessed by .. like a hundred (or was it a thousand??) demons. people cast him off from society because he had no control over what he did. jesus knew his name and called him out. by the power of god he cast out all the demons into a bunch of pigs who then proceeded to drown themselves. i dont know if thats answers your 'what do you mean?' question, but thats all i got.

and CNWKaren, yes i truly do believe it. What Freundly-ginat said earlier about demons and angles being evil and good, i believe it, but i dont believe thats all they are. evil is as much a spirit as good is. when a human is physical, their spirit in them is created to be good. but it follows whatever the mind and body do or think. in some cases, what the mind and body do or think are temporarily overpowered by  what evil spirits want them to do or think. its a tough question as to whether or not you can be possesed by good. i dont think you can. i tihnk youre created with it in you, and only can oyu have revelations or realizations of what being good is. ALSO- if good is from god, god created us to have free will. he will not control us by possessing us with good. the devil on the other hand, i dont think he cares if we have free will or not. he can lie and cheat all he wants. deciet and manipulating someone through possession with evil seems like something he'd do to get someone to obey what he wants them to.

Actually satan is a concept borrowed by the writers of the Bible, from the Mesopotamians.  It was an ancient attempt to try to explain evil.  Satan is a myth.

Shalom

Mate

Hi IB,

For the most part it doesn't realy say that women are lower than men, but it does give them a different role in the structure of the type of lifestyle that scripture teaches.

Some women would see it as sexist.

For example & I don't exactly know where you will find it, but I'm pretty shure that it is in the new testament where it says that a women should not teach in the church, or play a leadership role in the church.

& I'm pretty shure this isn't something that was said by Jesus.

I remember seeing this & wondering why God would allow this to be wrtten in scripture because if spiritual matters are non gender related, why would this be an issue?

I will have to search it out & try to see it now. Maybe I will find something else in there that can bring it more to light.

Bolt

Hi Goodskeptic,

Yeah it would seem contradictory, but realy it isn't.

For the most part, satan is only real to those who believe in God.

For the most part when we read in scripture about God & Godly ways, we read about the flipside of things thus the introduction to satan & his minions.

But satan also can decieve those who believe in God into thinking that he doesn't exist.

Those who do believe he exists are not to entertain the thought that his power has any form of victory over us as believers in Christ.

Death, the wages of sin has lost it's sting so to speak.

For us to constantly focus on the enemy in such a way, takes away from the things we should be focusing more on & that is where we are in our hearts & ask ourselves where is our heart? To Focus on the Giver of Life instead of the dealer of death.

For it is with the Giver of Life that we even have a chance, a hope in hell against such a being as this.

This satan still shouldn't be taken lightly though. As to open a door for him, is a mistake that can be costly.

And as far as knowing his full nature? Just look at those who allow wickedness to rule their hearts, & see for youself the character of satan. I hope it confounds & discusts you as much as it does me.

Bolt

Hi Connected Individual:

Most of the heretics and witches that were tortured and executed by the Holy Inquisition were executed because they were regarded as conspirators of Satan.

Crazyheart,

Good question. relevant today as ever.

The devil? I think it is a metaphor for evil in us...to personify him is to blame somebody else for our own evil ways.

Good versus evil: the ongoing fight within us. May our good ones win!

These were a few honest thoughts. Not conclusive at all. Just an opinion.

I just thought I'd take time to point out that in Hebrew Scriptures Satan is not seen as the embodiment of evil.  Satan is the tester.  It can in fact be argued that the tester is acting on behalf of God.  The same thing can be said about Satan's first appearance in the Jesus story -- the time in the wilderness (a story I see as describing a vision quest, a search for "what is my mission and ministry?")

And of course the full Lucifer myth is more fully described in non-Scriptural witness than it ever is in Scripture.

 I'm going to stand over nest to Bolt.

The greatest battle that is taking place right now is going on all around us. It is the battle between darkness and light, heaven and hell, chaos and order. Mostly, it is the age-old battle between God and the devil.

This battle is personal. God wants to strengthen we who follow Jesus and make us more like Jesus. The devil, Satan, seeks to frustrate God's work and keep us from ever developing spiritually.  

Christians are to fight on God's side. This is to be done in three major ways... submit to Jesus (by turning every aspect of our lives over to him), resist the devil, and come near to God (through devotions and corporate worship).

Yes this is true in my case & will go further as to say, to draw near to God is better served through personal worship & devotions, doing it corperately is also very important In my case, the two go hand in hand.

During the week, God will give me things to think about through His word & in dreams, only to varify them when the Holy Spirit moves in the corperate arena, & confims that which God was saying to me.

This is what relationship is, a two way communication.

What good is a relationship if only one speaks & the other only listens, but doesn't speak their mind?

This is a problem that leads to more divorces that anything else.

Bolt

Hello Satan and welcome to wondercafe.  I am sure you will feel quite at home here and I hope that some people are not too kind and loving for you.

I figured that you were on wondercafe.  I am appalled that you cannot spell your own name.  "Satin" is a type of fabric. 

Things are going badly for you because you lost the art of persuasion.  You need to lie and you are supposedly the Father of all Lies.  You need to promise people fame and fortune for bowing down to you and then not follow through.  This method will not get you any followers.

The Bible appears to have mythologized you too much.  You really are quite pathetic and have far less power than my cat.  Maybe go back to hell and come up with a better strategy.

hold on a sec. he commands us to do stuff?? he commands..?

The Devil, do you do your homework?? serena is right. you have no authority to command us to do anything. no, my friend.. you gotta cheat your way outta this one.

lies and manipulation.

have fun.

( it would be much easier for you to be The God, The Devil, just so you know. Less rules.)

Consider there is nothing more evil and sinful to an institution than change. Check out the work of mesons ... sunlight on a stone ... nothing stands up to a wee light of knowledge ... even ignorance crumbles if it takes a difficult stance. Sort of a metaphor of Satin against the heat of the sun, nude Eire (ven use) is compelling. Now is that nuteuring the Furies. Good time for a seista ... seventh daze rest ... Bath Sheba ... m'n aura? It is a sheltered, hidden itch, sometimes called a buried ache ... Toby merged in th' Ought!

Is there anything that can change an isolated Mann? Is that ineffiable? Close to Ephraim the mother of all thought is de sire, a horse of no name but you'll know when she hits ... Lady Love in the quantum piles can make something out of even a wee chit! Even hell change with such water dribbling over hymn. Bewitching spelling? Then under Roman authority compassion was not in vogue ... and which empirical node do we follow in presents?

hahahahahahaha.

you rock.

I am the Pleather! you will bow to me! you will obey my uncomfortably sticky commands! Forget your beliefs! Forget your life! You are NOTHING! You are A LESSER FABRIC THAN I! I command you to NOT kill cows! I command you to smell me in dissapointment because real leather smells better! I comand you to vote Green! All these things you will do and I will inherit the earth! And possibly some cows!

SatIn is obviously an imposter.  The devil is a lot craftier than this. 

No no.. satin is like a silk wannabe. Its pretty crafty, I'd say. It feels nice, too. Now pleather, THATS  real imposter. geez, Freundly-Giant. Spot on.

Oh, you need not commend me on my vast, endless knowledge. I already know I'm all that and a bag of potatoe chips.

Is this all relative communication?

Consider that to a pure blind Love ... cognizant mind is the devil!

Then consider that  pure thought (without care) thinks that any motivation for change is just the chits. Then what are we in vast spatial mode but mere/Mir points? It is a humbling scene for those that think of themselves as children of God ... secondary Gods are defined as Dae mon to the dark ineffable expanse of the headless knight ... washing ton's hors-emonite?

It is from all the silent wailing ... the physically powerful can never hear the spatial quality of state of mind ... non existentual ... or non essentual? Should there be a sense of balance to deal with the anima? And we wonder why mankind is an isolated grace in the cosmos! Stop, arrest and meuse over it a bit in the shadow persona! The soul and its espoused spirit will follow you until their escape into the higher tier. The heavenly imagination ... non existentual; but where do your deep thoughts and feels come from ... Erise or Eros?

Creations of the mind ... words are easily corrupted in the flow from singularity to singularity ... bushman polity ... humility and hospitality is much preferred to agression ... perhaps we could learn something then! It is just a thought in a dark whorled, spin game for the powers above. We haven't a clue! If we could only get the pieces together ... for another dimension of growth ... evolution? Oh God not another change? Doesn't amu-eL hate to move? Light word transmits so many channels of frequency ... broad-banded like the soul surrounding .. environmental powers?

wow.. reading your post is like reading poetry.

only, i have no idea how to answer any of your questions and i dont know what you are talking about.

but i liked how it sounded. that i did.

 yes, Waterbuoy seems to operate on his own plane of poetic existence.   

Hello WaterBuoy...you are quite right...I know very little indeed yet, this I do know...neither Erise nor Eros...in truth, Anteros.

Attrus

Anteros (ante roues) ... before the blossoming of the soul in lines of irrevocable thought? Doesn't anyone know the mind is ethereal ... dark formless entity, pneuma? It is emotional!

Plain of poetry? This is the realm of satyr ... in a world of lies ... only a story will do as Amman cannot stand truth ... even blinded by Love without a thought. My God man you can't tell the truth ... mankind would crap out if he really understood what they've done to the surroundings. And creation allows them to fade under their own power ... the mother of all needs a rest too while the father rages in the dark Ness of the pool!

The mind is ineffable spirit, you cannot make it do anything, but you can shed the self-centered passion and make room for thought .. idyll come in time ... all in due season according to some myths! In such form is mankind like a candle in the winds ... some more than others as we are independantly, individually made in the whole tree of life? The tree of knowledge? Well that was displaced when love was made in that jungle that was once called ... garden? Things got out of hand and the gardener retreated for arrest ... loched in Plate eau's cave as a drip ... just a tier inna hard space!

Would anyone notice a wee piece missing? Does anyone sweat the small stuff? Is it God or the devil in the detailing of the story?

Waterbuoy, I think I might be in love with you. BUT you're going to a place that I don't know whether or not it should be challenged on this thread or not. Maybe you should start one with this thought, I have an handful of opinionated things to say on the matter.

Hello everyone....God bless you...

I believe as Arm...the force does exist..

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers , against the rulers of the darkness of this world..against spiritual wickedness in high places...

Ephe..6:12

IJL:bg

Do I seem opinionated?

I suppose that such projections mean that only an elect few can express or project an opinion. I've been told that before thank you!

It is expressed often in firm arguement that cannot be considered discussion! Now mankind is physical ... what do we class the spirit of heart and mind ... metaphysical following like a shadow persona?

If only the diverse expanse of humanity could listen to the significant other, outside of the demon we call self. Demo-crazy?Friendly-Giant; you suggest I am going someplace bad ... been there and done that and real people don't want to hear such stories of grief. If the body didn't inform you of injuries how long would an isolated soul last? "They" would prefer to bury anything that has an aroma of truth about it. Ain't that the Light of knowledge that frees an individual? Good news is all that people will accept ... bad news is a lie to those of positive power of thinking. Does that describe denial ... The People of the Lie --- Scott Peck?

We would have to make precarious connections ... spiritual, thin space to walk? Moses, carry a rod a big stick and walk softly ... the real world is full of holes and no one will learn of the Pits! Ain't that one 'eL of an observation (omniscience in one old expression)?

Such things would require a thinking soul matched to a caring sole ... a soul mate in higher space (as metaphor)? Perhaps it is why the soul/mind/psyche is indeterminate in mankind ... if such creatures could get their hands on a tangible form ... wouldn't they corrupt it with ignorance (unconscious collective) like every other gift they were given. Ain't that a deuce of a thought if you didn't care to pick up on the hidden light in the adage? As water treatment specialist I have great interest in what man does to the ... "C" of light? It is an old acronym for the pool of the mind ... unschooled in the art of myth?

Open the dark pages of the soul of the story and learn of our past ... our history is brutal to our sibling creatures and we do not like to change. It is said that the beauty (a'donis) placed a hard space in the fore head of the beast (Goliath). Is that an apt pseudonym for the over expansiveness of Amman's desires compared to his need for intellect to balance the creature we fear most ... the omnipotent infinite sense of mind/soul? Perhaps Persephone (pure ink) could float a balance ... that singular one once called Sophie ... a lost horizon of justice in a corrupt realm. M'n doesn't like to go into the shadow of their soul (plural or multiple to the limits) for we are embarassed of what we would find there.

If we could just tiptoe across that line like Peter, a beginning? Consider the first letter of ancient Greek compared to that of Arabic and Hebrew ... is the initiation, the first crossing of the line of the fluid sole? Then the alpha, does it look like a fish ... omega'd, when caught in a stretch ... light humours? Infinite is leviathan ... the extent of the story is alien like the mind-psyche complex ... a composite of many parts un-Rae cognizant of the history as it was mostly corrupted by powers.

Don't tell anyone ... they'll get cha! In this small point in space all is supposed to be sacred dumb and secret unknown to the authorities so they can function on blind faith ... like Light in the darkness. When Christ light gleams ... does the mystery of Love retreat? Does the corollary hold true? Perhaps we need  a wall for balancing the projections into one another's space. Look at the D'n of Yin and Yang in Spockie's symbol ... then you have to know the meanings of the words to know what initially put that thought in a spin ... it's a huge curiosity ... like Thomas di dimus, the twin like both halves of the soul a man. We haven't looked into the other side as a childish creation ... do we want to know the X-Pan's of darkness? What's that saying about the devil you know versus the devil you don't know or the change of what you know killing you faster than what you don't know ... ineffable!

Consider that King James, an illiterate bugger of wee buoys, described Hebrew as a devilish tongue. Does that mean the language on which the doomsday book is based is all a lie or just exteremly satirical of our behaviour ... and you couldn't tell that to real people. Is there an imaginary number that is related to the eclectic? Some say that love is like that ... a missing sense of who we are!

Do we stuggle against the powers of the mind? Would you like another's love to succeed or like to learn how they do it so you could keep an oppressive force in balance? It is like burning bush ... without piscine it can get the best of you ... water the flames ... corollary to the dilution of responsibility in psychological science. Any flat bred fish will do. The more of us in a community the less we care individually! Are we smart in Maas or just unrully mob without intellect? Sometime intellect doesn't even help with an overblown will!

Have a giggle plasma-like laughter is good for the soul. Look at all the stoic Gods ... gone! Only devilish power of thought remains and we are afraid to use it to bring Pisces to the land. Only bring them ashore if there is need ... if you rape La Scie ... whats left for tomorrow to quence the flames? It is an expression from new found land ... a higher tier in metaphor?

oh man...I just got shivers...you just said what I have been thinking for some time now...I see it all the time.

Peace

Attrus

i agree, only because i like to hear what you have to say. im not really too opinionated, but on baord?? you bet.

 The truth is that the devil, like God and religious influences, is a fictional creature created by humans. The devil in this case is an excuse for ones actions not a living being.

I tend to take this interpretation too. I was always taught there was no devil but I have a hard time just believing that - if there is a Christ out there to encourage in us all things good and Holy, I think it would be naive to assume there is not an equivalent on the 'evil' side. However, just as no one can or should be forced to accept God's light into their lives, neither can Satan work without being allowed to. God exists to teach us faith; Satan/Lucifer is there to test it; but neither can either impose it or steal it away.

Is a devilish testing space the mind of m'n ...  isolated la belle point to examine new desires with little damage to outside space ... phaere environment. M'n ... you're not to go there with grand threat to your health ... not even to Mars ... don't even struggle with that thought .. ID's whor .. or is that war ... reid la Dei!

Don't join that ankh until you are committed with Ur!

I heard the devil was down in Georgia, he almost won a soul, but he didn't play fiddle good enough. Booo scary.

But was there a conversion, a sense of created harmony? That's a change eh .... difficult in the mind of a monster like mankind. This weeks lexionary on David and Go-lieth ... is a grand illustration of the fall of faults from heaven. Even creation needs a place to store errors in a far corner of the cosmological (alternate thinking pool)!