Thou shalt not assign God to a side. Keepeth Me out of it. saith the Lord.

We don't do so well with the ten commandments we have. Why would one more make a difference?

Graeme,

My scripture was the Canaanite woman with the daughter needing healed, the one called a dog. I talked about Canaanite being an insult, because it was no longer a place or people name. Like calling Toronto, York.

I dared infer Jesus was a product of his society who saw them as dirty and less than, the other. I dared say Jesus saw a bigger God and a bigger Kingdom that day.

I spoke about how since 911 Muslims have been the other. I asked how we cling to that Holy Book and do that. How can the book talk about the root of Jews, Christians and yes, Muslims... What about Ishmael?

What if someone protested a Christian church with a sign that said "All I need to know about Christianity I learned from the Inquisitions/ residential schools/ the priest scandals...." instead of outside a mosque with "all I need to know about Islam I learned on 911"?

It was a continuation of a sermon last week on fear. That Jacobs brothers had to rid themselves of him based on fear, that his dream might come true.

That if Jacob is this, then they feel they are not, That is Jacob will do this, then they will not....

That we fear not being loved, special, right....

That as much as we sit in church on Sunday saying God loves all God's creation we do not live it.... we want another's standard of living to rise without ours moving... we shoot at people....

I did not heap shame and guilt. I said Jesus was human and so too are we. I asked that like Jesus we see a bigger God and a bigger Kingdom and that when we said "thy Kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven" we think about it.

Do not assume what folks leading worship say.

Wander into a church, hear what is said. Do not like what you hear or what is there around you? Look online. There are tons of UCC clergy who YouTube, blog, have a full Word document of their sermon. Still think it can be done better? Then step behind the pulpit and do it.

There is a point when arm chair quarterbacks have to be told, put up or shut up.

Witch, I agree, God picks NO side.

As I understand it in the original language "Thou shalt not kill" = "Thou shalt not murder". Mass warfare is still allowed, it's just individual one-on-one killing that's forbidden.

I would have to disagree MC...thou shalt not kill is pretty self explanatory. It seems to me war is included in that...whether one on one or by proxy.

It also seems to me that enabling the use and production of WMD's that can destroy the whole planet is mass murder for which everyone would be guilty if we don't support  disarmourment.

"The Ten Commandments are for lame brains. The first five are solely for the benefit of the priests and the powers that be; the second five are half truths, neither complete nor adequate."

--Ira Johnson, To Sail Beyond the Sunset

I have been behind a pulpit - many, many times. I have been an invited speaker for churches, synagogues, all sorts of groups at least fifty times a year over a period of some 40 years. That adds up, with the services, to well over 2,000 - and most of them to groups a good deal larger than most congregations. I  have also written uncounted hundreds of newspaper columns, and done radio and TV many thousands of time. I don't think that makes me an armchair quarterback.

Your sermon, as you described iti, did not, if you will pardon me for saying so, sound particularly dashing or venturesome.

I never said God picked a side. Why put up the straw man? But God did say some things were wrong. I think He would consider Mao's slaughter of Chinese wrong as was Hitler's of Jews. . I think he would expect us to be opposed to them. God doesn't take sides. But I have this funny idea he expects us to take a side against what we see is wrong,  just as he expects us to take a side with what is right.

Would you give a sermon explicitly using The Bible in  urging us to supply food to Somalia?

Would you give a sermon explicitly using The Bible in urging us to oppose the bombing of Libya? You know the answer to that as well as I do. your sermon was so nicely unspecific ot could  have been applauded at a Mafia convention.

Considering how many people God supposedly killed in the bible, who were not at war at the time, do you want to take this opportunity to reconsider?

chansen,

yeah, Satan is the good guy.  At least he will give them central heating for the rest of their existence :3

Graeme,

I know you have spoken, did you this week?

Did you talk about Libya last week?

Did you speak about Somalia last week?

In a church?

Are you resting on your laurels?

 I did speak on both last week. Not just in a prayer of the people, either. I may not have done so elequently or academically enough... but I did speak up and out.

To urge a stop in bombing using scriupture.... done it. In fact, this week I mentioned God wanting peace while we want tenuous or meaningless ceasefires and we think peace means an absence of fighting...

To urge feeding Somalia using scripture... done it, this very week talking about crumbs....

Thou shall not be a douchebag.

Not True!   God picks all sides, except, well we wont say the name :) 

On Libya...I think it falls into thou shalt not kill...no matter how we justify it. You'd think...with all of our advanced communication skills and tools that we could  achieve world peace without resorting to war. It boggles my mind. We are out in space studying the origins of the universe without taking care of our home and each other first..our priorities as a human race are all screwed up.

I am not a fancy pants or person with any special letters after or before my name.

I just know that if you think the floor needs mopped, you just as soon as anyone else should mop it.

You think you know how to do the dishes better than the person up to their elbows in the dishwater,and tell them that,  then grab a rag, buddy.

That's all I know.

I think the 11th Commandment should be:

​*Peace - Love - Respect - Humility* Unconditionally

​Signed: Wolfie

Translation: Don't be a douchebag.

LOL @ Tyson - I wondered how long it would take you to do that LOLOLOLOL

​*Peace - Love - Respect - Humility* Unconditionally

Wolfie

LMAO

ya but how do you say douchebag in Hebrew? 

SG - You have to be invited to lead a service in this town. What do you think my chances are of being invited to any church in Moncton? I would gladly grab a rag. But I won't be allowed to.

מגעיל

But Hebrew is not all you need for scholarly analysis, you also need the Greek, είσαι ηλίθιος

i knew that 

Wait I think the Greek is really Ελληνικά

 

God is not a human. He plays by different rules. God is Sovereign King of the Universe. He can take out anyone He wants.

I met someone and their kid from Israel the other day.  I aske and found out that they were Israeli-Arab-Palestinian-Canadians :3  I said that that sounded quite confused, she said she always wanted to love everyone and destroy everyone and we had a good laugh -- I love people :3

The original reason for bombing Libya was to stop Ghaddafi from going on a killing rampage, which he showed (and said) that he intended to do.

I find the Libyan situation to be ambiguous---if NATO had not acted, there would surely have been many deaths....whether it balances out, I don't know.

So why the bombing option?  Why not just assassinate these people ahead of time?  Or, in the case of men, calm them down by feeding them estrogen (like there was a plan to do with Hitler)?  Where's the bold thinking with dealing with problems like these?

Why not send in special undercover forces to capture Ghaddafi, and then try him at the Hague. Why not arrest him at an international conference? Why military force as a first option?

Technically the correct translation is "thou shalt not murder". Murder, by definition, is only the unlawful killing of another human. If it's not unlawful, it's not murder.

I think that Godde is always on the side of those who suffer, and it seems to me that the civilians on the ground in Syria are clearly suffering the most in this situation, so it seems quite clear to me what side Godde is on. And it's not 'ours'.

In Canada not long ago, there would have been a lot more talking before we agreed to a military solution, I think. We started down a long slippery slope when we believed the WMD lies.

Haha. I was hoping you would write that. Then....you came through. (Insert high five here)

Good question. I am going to look through Strong's Concordance.

I'm surprised no one has made mention that there already is an 11th commandment, one pronouce by Christ Himself:

"A new commandment I give you, to love one another; that as I have loved you, you also may love one another."
- Jesus Christ, John 13:34

This one commandment supersedes the 10 commandments from the old testament. It says it all. Brotherhood, sisterhood and right human relations between everyone in our human family is the lesson we're working through now.

I see the starvation that's going on, as in Somalia today, as great tragedies that should be  must be addressed immediately. Everytime something like this happens in the world another great opportunty for mankind presents itself. It's time for the united nations of the world to once and for all put a stop poverty and starvation forever. I think that once we start giving, I mean really start giving, we wont' be able to stop ourselves and will continue it around the world until the starvation is eventually stamped out of midsts for ever.

All it takes is Love.
 

The thing is most (not all but most) countries have WMD's there are enough WMD's....enough to take out the whole word several times over. It's absurd. Noone should have them. Einstein would be ashamed that we didn't listen to his regrets, and devastated about how little we learned.

Neo...I hope it does. I am consciously trying to do my part. Weapons bans is another big one...how do we accomplish that?

By following the 11th commandment. Sounds too simple, doesn't it?

The more individuals become aware of themselves as souls within, the more we'll realize that everyone is part and parcel on one great Over-Soul:  the Soul of Humanity. Love for one another will come naturally once we become aware that we all part of the same Human Family.

So how do we become more aware of ourselves as souls? Start by practicing honesty of mind, sincerity of spirit, and detachment from everything physical, emotional and mental.

It's up to each of us to become a light-house of inner strength and let the light of the soul shine through.

EO - the original reason for bombing had nothing to do with Ghafaffi and a killing rampage. If the world cared about killing rampages and thought bombing was the answer, we would have bombed the US many times in the past forty years. We would also be bombing the United Arab emirates and Saudi Arabia.

The UN mandate was no such thing as an attempt to stop Ghadaffi. the mandate was to create a no fly zone. Nothing more. And if you will check wider set of news sources, you will find that humanitarian and UN observers have noted the rebels as the ones on a killing rampage.

When the US starts its next invasion (and it will very soon), will you demand the bombing of the US? Are you aware that the US is now killing people in Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia (drones). That's four countries - not counting dozens of countries where speical ops are at work. All by the Nobel peace prize winner.

The sad thing is that the killing has nothing to do with protecting anybody.

If you google Project for the New American Century (an extremely influential group which included the Bushes), check its statement of purpose. It is to establish American "leadership", political, military and economic of the world. That's what used to be called world conquest. So far, millions have been killed, and millions more crippled and impoverished in that endeavour. The experience is so brutalizing that suicides among US servicemen are at a record high.   (We don't know the numbers for Canadian soldiers. After all, we don't want to upset the families. Very considerate.)

You can find plenty of preachers speaking out in public against gays and abortionists - and for bigger collection offerings.They're quite fearless on those.  But God forbid they should raise questions about the Christianity of what NATO is doing.

The eleventh commandment: Disregard the foregoing!

(Sorry, bad joke :-)

I agree with practicing honesty of mind, and sincerity of spirit to demonstrate our love for one another.

But detachment?

Detachment can often mean the antithesis of love.

Detachment is too prevalent in today's society IMO.

Think of a young man murdering in Norway - detached from the suffering around him.

Think of the London riots - and the amount of detachment - not only on the part of  the rioters, but also from the conditions that were a background to the riots.

Think of the detachment that occurs in the family household - youngsters glued to their technology, oblivious to others in the household.

Detachment suggests distance at the very least - whereas love is a moving towards, a connecting with.

Detachment is cold - love is warm.

Arminius,

that's the best one so far -- maybe I should make a sticker and go down to Texas and start adding that to the courthouse's 10 commandments...hmm...

Pilgrims Progress,

yes, detachment.  Just like this

i was thinking the same thing.  you saved me a post.  thanks :)  it's sad that hate seems more contagious than love and that doing the right thing is always harder than doing the wrong thing.

The idea likely deserves a whole thread, but I do not see my role as "saving" people or getting the unrighteous into the righteous pile.

For me it is about changing the world. For me, that happens one person at a time. It is making someone want to change or that they see that change is possible.... that they see another way, The Way Jesus taught.

I do not point over here and over there and say, "look how grotesque" as much as I ask folks to look into ourselves and find where we possess such cruelty... where we might hold a prejudice... feel superior... even if we say we would not act on it or give it voice. Just find it inside yourself.

When have we thought on the phone,  "I wish they would get someone who speaks English"? When have we thought, "MY people could have kept that job instead of THEIR people"?

Then, once you see it, think.... those thoughts, spoken or unspoken, can create an atrocity. Time after time, throughout history, they have.

We cannot pretend that intellectually or emotionally they are not there. We cannot even pretend they are absent from our conscious mind. If we are to see the light we often have to go into the darkness. We do not get to turn away, we have to gaze deeply into the ugly, the disgusting, the horrible... because to do anything else will not enable us to understand it and make it better.

I will never forget a rabbi saying, "We do not have to be there to be - bombing, shooting, herding people... to contribute to it."

We all contribute. 

We prefer to point fingers at others. We always have.

Jesus said, "look at yourself", "ask yourself", "think for yourself", "put yourself there"....

I quite agree with most of what you say. But time is short. The disaster is on us.

And, frankly, nobody cares if we point a finger at ourselves. Do I look at a world that kills, starves, mutilates by uncounted thousands every day, and all in the name of greed or some other ideology? Then do I say, gee, what am I doing wrong?

Should we not have pointed the finger at Hitler for the holocaust? Should have have looked first at ourselves?

(Actually, we should have because we were as anti-semitic as the Naziis were at the time, though the 1930s and well beyond. But I have never of a sermon of the time that peered into that darkness.
 

And is it possible to peer into the darkness, see what is there, and describe it only in terms of biblical analgty?

would Jesus have toured a torture prison, then speak of it only in parable terms so as not to offend anybody?

We have Chaplains there to comfott our sevricemen, and to assure they are doing an important job.

Good. Soundl't we be doing the same thing with Canadian chapter of the Mafia, the Russian mob, and Hell's Amgels?

Graeme,

Unless we look inside, we will keep doing what we have been doing. Lessons unlearned are repeated.

If we genuinely look inside, we will not support corporations and governments and candidates that do not represent us. We have to hear our own heart. We have to hear the heartbeat in others. Our heart knows the soul better than the head ever can. Our hearts have to guide our heads.

When and if they do, we cannot exploit, we cannot shoot, we cannot enslave, we cannot abuse....

The neighbour becomes self.

I have heard of many sermons speaking out from the time Hitler was gathering steam and while the smoke was going from the ovens. Read Catholic Cardinal Clemens von Galen's sermon delivered on Sunday, August 3, 1941, in Münster Cathedral. I think he did three back to back ones.

Read Bonhoeffer's 1932 sermon where he said “the blood of martyrs might once again be demanded, but this blood, if we really have the courage and loyalty to shed it, will not be innocent, shining like that of the first witnesses for the faith. On our blood lies heavy guilt, the guilt of the unprofitable servant who is cast into outer darkness.”

Read right after Hitler took power where Bonhoeffer said " The church has only one altar, the altar of the Almighty…before which all creatures must kneel…whoever seeks something other than this must keep away; he cannot join us in the house of God…The church has only one pulpit, and from that pulpit, faith in God will be preached, and no other faith, and no other will than the will of God, however well-intentioned."

I am not one to clean things up, not even our Bible stories.  In my sermon on weeds in the wheat, I mentioned the Master saying, "I will sort it out at harvest" but we do not like to listen. I said we want to decide what is weed and what is weed and we are never weed and we then want to (exact line verbatim) "kill them all and let God sort them out".

Not quite a prettied up parable or an avoidance. So, do I personally take offense at your accusations? Yes, I do.

Again, I understand your upset, horror, ire... But, painting all clergy or anyone behind a pulpit with a wide brush is not fair.

I step there and say what I feel called to say. It is not always pretty and it is not pablum and it is not easy to swallow at times, and I do so knowing that in the stage I am in of the process, it may prove fatal... and I do it anyways. So, yes, you piss me off when you say that it is not being done. I have the proof that they are and in UCC fashion, "I am not alone".

A commandment along the lines of "Thou Shalt Not Habitually or Knowingly Deal in Bullshit" would probably terminate too many political careers to be widely accepted... just a thort.

SG - well, if you take personal offense then we really mustn't discuss this. We're not allowed to look into that darkness.

Did you notice that not one of you ministers who spoke out was Canadian or American? I my many times in church in Montreal, I never once heard a minister make reference to anti-semitism or racism - though both were publicly rampant at every level of Montreal society.

I didn't paint all clergy. They have done it for themselves. I notice that all you eamples of speaking out are markedly unspecific. Who are the weeds? With that vagueness, people can leave church thinking we really should get tough on those  unGodly peace demonstrators.

I listened to a sermon once on 9/11. It was quite specific, no reliance on parables and anologies. At the same time, a million, mostly innocent Iraqis were being killed, and millions more orphaned, widowed, crippled, and impoverished. I can't recall hearing a imple sermon about it. Do you, perhaps, have a copy of the one you gave on that occasion?

Graeme, do you see that you are offended and then say we cannot talk if I am? It is not a personal offense in the way you think. Your venom does not apply to me, no matter how many times you say I am vague, unspecific, etc....

In that same "weeds and wheat" sermon, I said we keep telling the parable because we do not get it. We sit in pews and think, "I am certainly wheat" and  "Gladys, ain't you glad we ain't them weeds?" and we listen to who is getting tossed in the fire this generation.

I gave specific examples as well as allowing plenty of room for people to pick their own and God to move them.

I mentioned aboriginal peoples, Muslims, homosexuals specifically, along with adding "anyone we disagree with or want land or resources from" and I think that is pretty specific.

And here is my line in context. Told to leave it to the Master, we cannot. We insist on and keep playing God. – and that’s what gets us and our world in trouble and it always has... everything from burning heretics to dropping bombs and saying “kill them all and let God sort them out”.

I was not in the pulpit on the Sunday following 911. I was still in a pew then. I did read a self-written poem the 2nd Sunday after 911 that ended with "do not say you did any of these things in MY name" and in the body of the poem used God, Allah, YahweIh.... It mentioned 911 and Palestine and bombing Iraq.... and many others.

For someone interested in history, look into Waitstill Hastings Sharp and his wife Martha. He was an American and is among the Righteous Among Nations and clergy (Unitarian). He likely delivered a sermon in his life, since he was moved enough to pick up and walk into danger overseas.

When the MS St. Louis was turned away from the US, it was a group of academics and clergy in Canada who tried to persuade the Prime Minister to provide sanctuary. Do you think they never delivered a sermon? Their names and faces may not be seen, their words recorded... but they are heroes that you sully the memory of.

Was anti Semitism rampant world-wide? Yes. So too were there amongst them people standing up and some of them stood up from behind a puplit.

As hurt and angry as I have been, as ignorant as I was of actually hearing it, I know that before 1988 clergy stood up for gay people.... Why are you so bitter you cannot see through your own hate?

As well, I think Fredrick Charles Blair at the Evian Conference mentioned an Anglican clergy from Canada who supported immigration. His name was Canon W.W.Judd of Toronto.

I bet if we look at Judd's sermons he delivered one.

So too did Raymond Booth speak out, from Society of Friends/Quakers. They do not have sermons.

There are others.... do you need more?

I have more, like James Shaver Woodsworth. (by then a former Manitoba Methodist minister)

One can add Stanley Knowles ( a United Church minister)

Shall we go on....?

look. forget the bitterness and hate thing. If I were consumed by bitterness and hate, I would stand and cheer for the killings we carry out, for the exploitation, for othe impoverishment of others

If I were bitter toward you or hated you, I wouldn't waste time writing to you.

I don't feel any venom toward you. Saying that we should not be bombing people is not an expression of  hatred or venom. It's simply saying what is happening.

Nor am I hurt by what is said to me. I have been in some fierce and even dangerous political battlers. It must have been twenty years ago I did a broadcast about the efforts of Quebec separatists to build hatred. They responded to me with a note that they got onto google. It's still there. And it was a clear inctement to the rabid elements to get me.

Anyway, I don't give a damn if people try to hurt my feelings. I can do it better myself.(After all, I'm tjhe one who knows far better than you what a misreable wretch I am.)

However, I try to see what is really there. I look at the world, and what is really there is American troops who have killed millions of people, mostly civilians, women, children, all over the world  There's nothing anti-American in saying that. It's reality. Now I see Canadian pilots bombing in Libya.  I'm not anti-Canadian.  I don't hate Canadians. I don't hate the pilots. But that's the reality of what is happening.

I'm not spitting venom. But something venomous is happening.

New Brunswick is  planning to balance its budget by cutting back on social services for the needy, and on public school budgets, and raising taxes on everybody but the rich. In tough times, we make the poor and the children pay. Nobody even mentions the enormous cash benefits  we      give to our handful of super rich families, and the tax loopholes designed just for them. I think they're stunningly greedy and uncaring. That's not an expression of hatred. It's an expression of what I see. Doo you have other words for that behaviour?

There is no point in peering into the dark unless you are prepared to say what it is you see.  

We live in a world in which most of us are exploited, abused to make the very rich richer. Look at the poverty in Africa, Central America. That was created largely by us and our firleds. Look what happens to the wealth so created. Most of it ends up in the pockets of the very rich, and has done so at the fastest pace in modern history for the last forty years. Meanwhile, fifty million Americans live on food stamps  - all so the rich won't have to pay taxes.

You don't have to be angry to say that. You just have to say what your eyes can see.

Of course, we may see different things. You may see that Obama of promise who has been  hampered by politics in the good he wants to do. I look at him and see the man who has continued torture, intenational assassination, and is now carrying on at least four wars.    

So, to start with, I think we all  have to make an effort to see what is really there. Without that, a thousand Sundays of parables will not accomplish anything.