Comments?

I am particularly interested in hearing how straight people who were in the UCC in 1988 feel, especially since alot of the funding and theological arguments that attack straight allies of GLBT and stated the the UCC had ceased to be Christian came from this group/

Are they really closing up shop... or just remodelling.

"For these reasons, the Board of Directors unanimously voted to close Exodus International and begin a separate ministry. “This is a new season of ministry, to a new generation,” said Chambers. “Our goals are to reduce fear (reducefear.org), and come alongside churches to become safe, welcoming, and mutually transforming communities.”

Source: http://exodusinternational.org/2013/06/exodus-international-to-shut-down/

Wow! I'd like to read more about this.

This article is pretty clear about their thoughts on the matter. Wow. Just wow. Good for them. Yay! Amen!

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3470911

Exodus International will be missed.

It was comforting for us conservative evangelicals to know that a good Christian organization was out there leading the way in tackling the nasty sin of homosexual behaviour.

The existance of Exodus International meant that we could stay well away from homosexuals and still feel that life was ok - Exodus was saving them from themselves. We didn't have to know them, didn't have to talk with them, could stay safely away.

If Exodus International is now not to exist we are left in a bit of a quandry - how can we best reach out to the LGBT community without choosing to take on the sinful lifestyles involved ourselves.

Of course that's an interesting thing about us, we go about saying that homosexual behaviour is a wicked sin a person can choose to make but we good straight evangelicals are about 100% sure that it's a sin that we certainly won't ever choose to commit.

Rich blessings.

lol

Exodus International: From 'pray away the gay' to acceptance

It’s really worth watching the heartfelt speech that Alan Manning Chambers gave Wednesday as he announced the demise of Exodus International, the controversial Christian ministry founded 38 years ago in Anaheim to —  as one often hears — "pray away the gay"

more at.........  http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-exodus-international-from-pray-away-the-gay-to-acceptance-20130620,0,5763754.story

Hi Alex,

I am unaware of any influence Exodus International played in the discussion.  I personally never heard of them until sometime well after 1988 and nothing I knew of them then provided anything that I would consider thoughtful or relevant to the discussion at the time.

Grace and peace to you.

John

“There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of 'reparative conversion therapy' as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation” the American Psychiatric Association has officially stated. "Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation are better adjusted than those who have not done so."

Perhaps the most famous case study in the failure of reparative therapy is that of two founders of Exodus International, Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, who helped start Exodus in 1976 and worked to "convert" gay people for three years, until they fell in love and left Exodus in 1979. In 1982, they held a marriage ceremony and lived together until Cooper died nine years later. "The desires never go away," Bussee said. "After dealing with hundreds of people, I have not met one who went from gay to straight. Even if you manage to alter someone's sexual behavior, you cannot change their true sexual orientation."

As a heterosexual person I cannot imagine having to undergo some sort of therapy to convert me to homosexual. Moreover I cannot imagine it working. Homosexuality is certainly not a choice. Moreover, given the hatred, the condemnation and the persecution so prevalent in society, I cannot imagine anyone making that choice.

From what I am understand they invented the idea or at least popularised it that Jesus could turn a gay person straight. One of the main arguments after gays should be celebrate, that was borrowed by UCC members who were liberal or progressive on almost everything else.

Thus those straight allies who supported allowing practicing  LGBT to be full members were betraying God, because there were options for LGBT people.

Most of the antigay theology that was developed in response to the Gay liberation movement of the 70s came frome Exodus, or theyre existence was used to justified excluding practicing gays. {Prior to the 70s gays were either just sick (liberals especially thought that, or in open rebellion against gay....becasue the Bible said so.(Eveen if it did not)

A simple apology seems totally inadequate somehow. I wonder if there's anywhere one could go to try to determine the number of suicides associated with the activities of this group. 

An apology is more than comes from most groups of this type.  What else can they offer, really?

A flash mob of them all singing "It's Raining Men".

Maybe a Mel Brooks number, "Springtime for Hitler" anyone?

Hitler Singing It's Raining men in front of a mob

Perhaps people will think the above video is of questionable taste., but let me remind you  taste is relative.

More bad taste?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=K08akOt2kuo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DK0...

The I will survive Auschwitz sets a tone that many of the survivors of Exodus will be lucky to have 50 years from now.    Howver it seems that many people do not know how to react to this video.

The video is the idea of the older man in the video who is a survivor of the camps, and he is dancing with his descendants who would not exist if he had not survived.

Knowing what we do of the camps, it is a miracle that he could return to the site and dance. 

I like the video (maybe not the song but I get it). The old guy, the survivor is dancing on the grave of something that should of never happened. An atrocity of biblical proportion that we should never repeat. Nothin' left to do but dance.

He's also saying to Hitler and all those Nazis that they failed and he and other survivors beat them.  Life trumphs

I was watching a film (linked at the end of the I will Survived video) about what happened in the camps when they realised the allies would soon be arriving.   The staff  tired to destroy the records of their crimes, and did other things  in order to avoid being held responsible for their crimes

So I research and looked  a little deeper into Exodus and after seeing what was happening inside the Evangelical church and  reading some Exodus victim statements, it appears that there is an alternative reason(s) for the apology and shutting down.  They see they are about to be held to account, and are trying to coverup what they have done.

For example the preacher who "saved" the current leader of Exodus when he was 18, had opportunistically cut all ties with Exodus/ Likely IMHO  because he saw who was winning the war, and that homophobia was quickly becoming a problem, as oppose to an asset in recruiting and fundraising among churches.  Funding and membership was rapidly disappearing in Exodus as other church leaders pulled away.

For many years Evangelicals ignore the fact that there gay teens they sent there were reporting being sexually abused as part of the cure.   But that is quickly changing and it looks like many of Exodus leaders could be facing civil and criminal charges soon for rape and sexual assault.

It also appears those men who were "cured" and were the main leaders were all (100%) child abusers who used the organisation to victimise teen boys sent to them for the cure.  

So  I suspect that Exodus apology is just a tactic, because it seems that they are among those who lack the ability to feel empathy(typical of abusers) , and so this is just a cover up, because they know the end is near and they are trying to save their own hides in order to evade being held responsible,

THey will fail.

Yes, they will fail Alex. I have no doubt about this. These types of people are coming in droves now because they (unconsciously, I presume) know that the end of hate and war and injustice is coming to an end. Such is the time for fanatics, just before the dawn.

Just came across this article via facebook...

"6 Lessons from the Collapse of Exodus International

1. When a ministry or organization or church departs from its purpose and calling and purpose, it will no longer be backed by God.

2. There is always a danger when one person becomes the face of a movement or denomination.

3. There is intense pressure on those offering hope and transformation to the homosexual community.

4. There is no way to appease gay activists without departing from the truth of the Word.

5. The collapse of Exodus is closely connected to hypergrace theology.

6. People and organizations may fall, but nothng can stop the goodness and compassion of the Lord."

The article can be found here: http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/18131-6-lessons-from-the-collapse-of-exodus-international

HI BetteTheRed - I too wonder, but If I was to go down this path, I would be looking first at the UCC.  Do we have a squeaky clean record?

That principle works with sin, and judgement  but the abuse of children and teens , is not just a sin, It's a crime, and it is not wise to ignore criminal behaviour because others in your own family are also criminals. 

The polarization of the two sides has created an atmosphere that thwarts construcitive dialogue and there is a need to seek common ground.  For example, conservatives who view same-sex sexual acts as sinful need to acknowledge the medical consensus (1) that, for most gays and lesbians, their orientation was never a choice or the rssult of deviant sexual behavior in their mispent youth and (2) that the orientation cannot be "cured."    Conservatives also need to concede that, even if homosexual acts are sinful, these acts do not place then in a category distinct from straight people who are guilty of all sorts of sins.  So conservative churches need to go the extrra mile to accept visitors wherever they are in their spiritual journey and to create a safe space for gays and lesbians to be honest about who and what they are.  These folk should be given every opportunity to assume active roles in worship and the life of the church. 

On the other hand, progressives must stop applying a simplistic homophobic label on all conservatives. In 1996, , I asumed the pastorate of a conservative UM church whose Communion steward, Mark,  was a closeted gay man who had just died of AIDs.  It became apparent that I needed to suppress the cause of his death at his memorial service to prevent ugly judgmental comments.  But then the church  hired Jon., a non-Christian gay Jewish music direcfor.  Many did not realize Jon was gay.  Jon took the job just to earn extra money because the gay jazz band he led lacked sufficeint gigs to be self-sustaining.  Some urged me to confront Jon on his orientation and non-Christian status, but I soon realized that best thing to do was nothing at all.  Soon my conservative ladies fell in love with Jon to the point of actually traveling up to Rochester to support his band's performances in gay bars and malls.  That support was reciporocated by free band performances at our church fund raisers.  after a few years, Jon asked to be baptized!

Soon large groups of gays were driving down to our country church (45 miles away) to worship with us.  Everyone soon recognized that this was happening, but the warnth of the interactions was so profound that the conservatives no longer wanted me to make an issue of it.  I couldn't address the gay issue in sermons, but these visitors asked me to do Bible studies for them in private and I offered gay friendly perspectives on Scripture. 

What amazed me most was this: several of these particular gays and lesbians were by nature conservative and they disliked the progressive open and inclusive churches close at hand in Rochester.   They were fascinated by how conservatives who had always opposed homosexuality could be won over by nondoctrinaire loving interaction.  That's why they preferred my church and were willing to drive 45+ miles to worship with us.  All of this was possible because no one was glibly throwing around terms like " homophobia" and because truly open human encounters trumped doctrinal preconceptions.

This lovefest preceded the current gay marriage controversy and, sadly, I doubt it could happen in the current climate.  Despite all my pro-gay work, I still believe that Christian marriage must be between a man and woman and that children need both a mother and a father.  I am pro-Christian marriage, not anti-gay or homophobic.  I believe gays and lesbians should have all the rights in civil unions that straigfhts have.  But now the battle lines have been drawn so extremely that I have been forced to ally myself with conservatives, whose treatment of gays pains me at times.  Gay marrage has passed in Washington state, but it has virtually no appeal in my region.  I only wish we could establish a greater sense of shades of gray, so I could minister to gays and lesbians in the same way I used to minister in New York state.   Unlike my New York churches that had several gays, my current church has none that I can  recognize.   

Basically thy are saying that Exodus is being closed by God, because it's leader has a differant theology that they do. WHich is a belief that God's grace is limited to people who have the same beliefs that they do.(which boils down to  is thagt LGBTQ  need to repent after sex every single time, as oppose to only once according to Chambers.in order to go to heaven)

Others are saying Sandra Fluke and Rush Limbaugh has a lot to do with it. Last year Rush called  Sandra a slut for supporting Obamacare. He said only sluts wanted the gvt to pay for birth control.

This caused a backlash not only against Rush, but all of right wing radio. Compagnies were forced to revalute advertising on talk shows hosted by right wingers. They drew up guidlelines which forced radio compagnies to choose between advertosing dollars and allowing hosts that would promote ideas that would cause boycotts against advertisers.

This drew in many "Christain Talk Radio hosts, on networks such as Clear, and Fox. All of a sudden talk radio stop talking about hate promtoing groups. Alan Chamber mentor, and the preacher who "saved" an 18 year old Alan Chamber and directed to the organisation he would eventually head Exodus, was forced to choose between keeping his show on Clear Radio Networks, and supporting Exodus. So Last  he repudiated Exodus, and cut off all ties with them. 

Memebrs and donations to Exodus have dropped significantly since . I also suspect the number of teens boys has also dried up.  Also with funds drying up and with lawyers taking on sexual abuse cases against Exodus leaders, the viablity of it as an organisation was gone. 

I also suspect that the apology was done in the hope that if they were forgiven they would not be facing criminal charges for the sexually abuse and coverup of it inside Exodus groups

uccprogressive, why do you think two men or two women should not be able to marry? If they love each other, if they want to devote their lives to faithfully caring for one another, why would you see them prevented from getting wed?

Comments?

"The difference between a Liberal and a Conservative is 20 years..."

--some RAW guy...

"we know that we cannot assume...that the features of a system which we observe in a measurement exists prior to the measurement...what we perceive as reality now depends on our earlier decision...we are not just passive observers... "

--Anton Zelinger distilling the Kochen-Specker theorem
 

"Learn to program or be programmed..."

-- various hoopy froods throughout time, who have then been killed etc

"This is real!"

-- some yenta talking aboot her authority, The Media, 's interpretation on Rocks

"This is real!"

-- another yenta disagreeing with the former, saying that Her Pastorsoverignpoohba's interpretation of Rocks are real

and so it goes...

Yes, I agree. C'mon you liberals, catch up!

Wait, in which direction is the 20 years?

to the future...:3

Yeah but for which one!

also as part of that 'quote pack' is that it only takes that amount of time, 20 years, for a libbie to change to a connie without changing a single idear...

what was once the new, the offbeat, if it works, becomes the new thing to be conserved, cherished, normative...

not that i'm taking any of it literally; that way leads to dull mainstream TV, reliance on slogans as reality and membership in Mensa...

The conservatives, of course, are perpetually behind.

But, as Inna said, we all are conservatives, because, by the time we have analyzed the truth of the moment, the moment is over and gone. In analyzing reality, everyone is always one step behind reality, unless—and here comes the quantum leap into creatorship—we create reality before we experience it.

Putting the cart before the horse, eh, Azd?

Who is the puller, and who the pulled?

"Yoga" is the Sanskrit name for "yoke": that which unites puller with the pulled. And, once the two are united, the pulled can be ahead of the puller, or vice versa, or the puller and the pulled and the pulling power can be a unfied whole. An adept of Yoga always has the choice between those three choices.

My yoke is easy.

-Jesus

Of all that talk of potter and the pot,

Tell, who's the potter, pray, and who the pot?

-Omar Khayyam