Hey Cookie (If I may call you that.)

I checked out your profile. Male under 18 it sais. Well, i'm a female under 18. So now you know your answer doesn't come from someone who's had more life experience than you.

I get what your saying. How in hell are you supposed to know which religion is the right one, if they all say that you should only fallow theirs!? Confusing ain't it? I myself am christian, but I have the same thought as you at least twice a day. In my opinion thought, religion is about what your heart tells you. If your heart tells you "Hey, Christianity is the way to go man!" Then go for it. If it sais the same thing for Buddisme (Sp?) or The Jewish religion, same answer. Go for it. Even athiesme.

I have no doubt that you'll get people on here telling you that one religion is better than the other, and to believe in a certain thing or you'll go to hell. (Trust me, if you read my own posts you'll find who they are.) But don't listen to them. Listen to the people with more open minds, and those who don't have a narrow view of the world.

As for people seeing things, I think somethings can be attributed to nature, while others really where the work of some otherworldly being. Just because it sais someone said they saw something in the bible, doesn't make it a miracle of God. And vice versa as well. Just because something can be explained by science, doesn't mean god didn't have anything to do with it.

I think i'll end it there, people my age don't like to be lectured I know that for a fact. And welcome by the way! Hope you stay a while and enter your opinions! You seem like the type of person who has many interesting thoughts. Hope that answered your question! :3

Shadow

O.k. cookie, I'll bite.  You're at the cusp of some really interesting growing and discovering and I'm almost jealous.  The discovering is so much fun, sometimes downright exciting.

I don't think there are 'millions' of religions--though there are certainly millions of believers, and individuals do put their own slant on things. That's what you're doing, and this is a very good place to flop your cards on the table and see what happens.  Not so many religions say they are 'the only true one'--although there seems to have been a resurgence of that particularly in the States the last few years. Because there are so many questioners, like you, some of the "temples of certainty" (isn't that a neat phrase?) are losing their members. People need a little more room to breathe; they want  to ask questions; they want to pick and choose from ideas that work for them.

You will grow, and gain knowledge, and the ability to discern the difference between what some crippled mind is offering and what rings true.  You'll be able to tell. My guess is, you already can.

And cookie, I think the reason we have religion is because it works. Yes, a lot of the concepts have been figured out by human brains.  But trust me--we do it because we sense the mystery, we feel the presence of the holy, we are convinced that there is a loving creative force out there (and in here) that maybe doesn't directly intervene in our lives in a physical way, but sure as heck does things with our minds and hearts.  And we ant to figure it out. And we want to be loved; we want to know we matter to someone; we want our lives to have meaning. We want to be forgiven. We (humans) have a natural, built-in tendency to spirituality. It's like a hunger, and it feels really good to feed that hunger with books and discussions and prayer. Feels really good.  Mind you, it ends up challenging you to do things that you don't always want to do...like get out of bed and help someone, or go to worship, or give generously of your time and resources for the good of the community...

Faith definitely should be fair.  Even killer rabbit, an avowed atheist, would say that we must treat each other fairly.  Believers try to get in touch with God to find out what God would have us do.  If you are a follower of Jesus, you will be fair--and non-violent, and compassionate, and generous and so on.  If you do what is best for you and for other people, you're on the right track! You'll probably run into Jesus there. Welcome to wondercafe; may it be a blessing to you.

weeze

Instead of trying to figure out which religion is "right" (ever considered that there may be common elements among them all which makes all of them "right" to some extent?), why not start with what you believe yourself and work from there.  Do you value peace over war? Sharing over greed? Community over isolation? Conserving the earth over destroying it? Love over hate? Inclusiveness over bigotry? Then look to see what religion, if any, holds to those same ideals. You'll probably find that most religions will add a lot of imagery and stories to those ideals - God, Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Buddha, prodigal sons, errant kings, poor widows and burning bushes, etc., -  but underneath those stories and images is a wisdom that those stories represent. How does that wisdom match the ideals you started with? Just remember that (despite many attempts to the contrary) no one owns a religion. Because someone expresses their religion in a certain way doesn't mean it is the only way to engage and interpret that religion. Each of us puts our own "spin" on what we believe. Yet I think you'll find that there are many similarities in the world's religions. Deep in our hearts, and regardless of religion, sect or denomination, I believe that we share a common purpose. Deep in our hearts, there is a common song. That's food for thought.

I was like you once.  But let me tell you, when you get exposed to God, it truely is exhillerating.  When everything starts to fall into place and things becomse clear.  Truly wonderous.

Anywho, I ditto spiritbear's advice.  Pick ethical or moral standards you see as necessary/would like to follow/uphold whatever.  Then start researching religion, and I assure you you'll find a many religions with common messages of peace and tolerance, dispite what some so-called 'followers' demonstrate.

Assalaam Alaiykum

-Omni

Thank you everyone. I never thought about that. It seems that my little thank you is pathetic beside your so large texts (not that I mind, as long as you don't teach me history :P  )

Hello EmoCookieDough and welcome to WonderCafe,

Well I agree that you are new.  I don't find it to be kinda weird at all though.  We have more than a few unbelievers here.  And even among those who qualify as believers there is not 100% agreement on a lot of things.

Thanks for stating that this is your opinion rather than it is a fact.  I'm not here to pop your balloon so much as to see if it can be inflated a little bit more.  What is the possibility, in your opinion, that religion is not a creation designed to infuse meaning into life but rather a creation designed to explain meaning in life?

What is your theory with respect to popularity?  I mean, what is it about one particular theory that is more attractive than another theory and allows it to gain more popular support than an other?

I think that your pointing to millions of religions weakens your argument.  There are a lot of different religious systems I agree.  I think that the number is significantly less than a million unless we are also counting individual faith expressions as bonafide religious systems.

This argument sort of flies in the face of your premise that religions are completely human constructs meant to attribute meaning to life rather than a response to life.  I personally think that if God wanted to have a relationship with humanity God would (and has) reveal God's self to humanity.  I would move from there to an understanding of religion as a human attempt to frame the revelation of God to humanity.

Okay, so this is what you believe.  How do you relate to that old man with Alzhiemer's and his dragon?

There are quite a few different flavours of Jell-O how do you know which is your favourite flavour?  How do you even know you like Jell-O?  Taste and see.  Of course you can bring prior experience to the picnic and if you already know that you don't like pineapple don't try any pineapple flavoured Jell-O.

I wish you well in that endeavour.

I think that what that means is that you are modifying a system that already exists and is recognized in more than a few of the world's major religious expressions.  I also think that since you are open to doing what is best for others you understand that a selfish base isn't a healthy one to operate out of and yet, you are a religion of one which ultimately rests on self. 

I think that sets you into conflict between what really is good for yourself and others and what will you do when the good of others is a threat to the good of self?

Welcome to the conversation.  Things can get awkward here too.  Sometimes this place is much like a school ground and there are some who earn the notation on their reports, "Does not play well with others."  Keep your head up.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hello cookie.......God bless you.......

Welcome to wondercafe and remember it is the site of the openminded.....I believe when we are searching we must start somewhere.....flip flopping from one religion to another offers us nothing but confusion........

If you are really interested in finding God the bible is a good place to start....even if you never pick what direction you want to go the bible is worth reading.....seek and you shall find...knock and the door will open......but we must do this by faith and faith alone...once you start experiencing God you will find out for yourself if  He is real or not....

God bless you fellow traveller on the road to come....may you find God when you seek Him..

IJL:bg

I agree with John. Some people here will tell you things are facts, and not opinions. They get kinda annoying. Just like he said, keep your head up. Learn to swim in this sea of confusion, and you'll eventually find some frim land you can get your footing on. BTW, open up more posts! Thats the reason i'm here. To make people think about what they believe in, and challenge their faith. I believe that by having their faith challenged, it only makes their faith stronger, and as a benifit it gives me a better understanding of what they rely on for their day to day lives. You might like one of my posts, Life after Death. Check it out if you haven't already! :3

Shadow

Hi Emo CD!

I really, really liked your post, and it really got me thinking.  Can I ask you a question instead of answering yours?  (Sorry)

You said it was too awkward to talk about this kind of stuff at school - I understand that.  And at the same time it seems like so many teens are trying to work out their beliefs and what gives their lives meaning, all by themselves. 

If there was some sort of group or club at school,  or in the community, like, say, a multifaith, or a spiritual book club or something like that, would you join?   Would others? Or would that just be weird?

I'm asking because I'm a teacher, and students talk to me all the time about this stuff, but there's just never enough time to really sit down and have a good conversation.  Especially since this is something that you HAVE to work out for yourself......nobody can give you the answers, but it sure does help to talk to other people, I've found. 

What do you think might help young people get together and talk about their spirituality, outside of an organized religion? 

Hello Diana. It is great that you are trying to do this for your students.. Let me think about it. If I think about the people at my school, only a small amount would join, you know, the people that join the book club, the ones that are, how can I say that? I have nothing againts people that go to book clubs, I myself love reading but just like so many people I don't join book clubs. So if you had some kind of "life/faith" club, lots of the people that want to go wouldn't maybe because they are scared of what people will think of them or just 'cause its akward. Their is nothing to do really, it's jsut are society but I think that a club would as much be useful than empty. The people that the most need it are the ones that are too scared to admit it. It's easier just to include it in your teaching, I know its complicated but to my opinion is the best way to carry it out...

I think people have missunderstood me on the part where I said "millions of religions". It was only a way to say there was a lot. Sorry for not being clear enough. I am sorry if I sounded offending or rude when I said whatever I meant.

John, I really like your Jell-O theory but, Jell-O and faith cannot be compared. Faith is what you give your whole life to. If you make a mistake you are somehow failing life if you get what I mean. 

When I said "What are the chances that I pick one" I meant "what are the chances that I pick the right one" It's a big risk and that is why I have decided to live on my own believe of what is right for me and others. John, It is not true that I put myself before others. It is just that instead of believing in a god's point of view on what is good, I believe in what I think inside me. If I'm about to steal something or kill, I won't ask myself "Would GOd be proud?" . I would ask myself "Is this really good?" "Will it affect peoples life?" "Will affect me?" "Will I be prouf about this" "How can I do a better action?" I even lots of times put people affront of me. My way of thinking is in no way selfish. I'm not greedy at all. When I said "I believe in what is the best for me and..." I meant that like, I have to study well because maybe it is hard right now but it will make things less hard later. These kind of things. And yes as you said, all this is just my opinion, not a fact. I never thought my opinion was a fact.

Thank you for making me think even harder, you espacialy, John :P

Hi EmoCookieDough,

Maybe not favourably.  I can compare a lot of things to Jell-O.  I wouldn't give my whole life to Jell-O though.  Unless Jell-O started making things other than flavoured gelatins and puddings.

Not exactly.  I think I get the drift though.  I think you are getting "faith system" confused with "faith" in general.  Christianity is a faith system and it breaks down into quite a few other systems.  Is it orthodox, is it Roman, is it Protestant and the like.  All of the flavours share the same components which allow it to set and wiggle about.  The distinctions between provide the flavour.  If someone can't stomach cherry they can have orange or lime.

In this regard faith would be a blanket statement such as "I like Jell-O" and when you specify the flavour you are naming the specific subset of the whole and it sounds like, "I like Jell-O.  Lime is the best."  Now I can eat other flavours of Jell-O but if I am allowed to choose I choose Lime.  Believe it or not there are people who think that Lime, because of its delightful greenness is an inferior form of Jell-O.  I don't understand where they are coming from I just accept that they are flat out wrong.  Lime is best because it is so delightfully green.

Now if you don't like Lime that is fine by me.  I'm not going to go on a crusade and put a sword to your throat making you choose between Lime and death.  That would be so uncool.

It isn't that big a risk really.  You've been listening to the Jell-O fanatics.  They tell you that unless you eat the right Jell-O made in just the right way by boiling the water in such and such a kettle and chilling it in such and such a frig you are going to gelatin hell where you soak in a flaming broth of bone marrow for eternity.

Ignore them.

Explore, taste and see.  You might like Lime or you might like Blue Raspberry.  The Fanatics really hate blue Raspberry, they think since Raspberries are not blue naturally it must be an indicator of the apocalypse and if you like it you run with Satan.  I think the only thing different between traditional Raspberry and blue Raspberry is the colouring.  Everything else is identical.

The comparisons do fall short in that Jell-O presents no real threat to anybody whereas hooking up with the wrong religious system can make your life miserable.  Sort of like a life without Lime Jell-O so ha!  It does so compare.

Okay, so how is that not a choice?  If you were worried about getting the right one why did you assume that the factory default would be the right one to pick?

I get that.  I was asking what you did when there was a conflict in your system between your needs and the needs of a wider community.  Oh, and if you are judging based on what you believe is good rather than what God's view of good is have you not put your opinion before God's?

Well, yes it is.  Maybe not problematically so but it is still based on what You believe is best.  That is you being the final authority on right action for yourself.

I excell at making things difficult for others.  Adversity builds character.  There are a lot of characters here you will face adversity.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Lol, John. I love your Jell-o Thing.... Is it suppost to mean that fanatics take religion to seriously but what you are actually suppose to do is just read and take out what you believe is the best? Isn't that just coming back to what I'm doing? Doing what you think is the best?

Ok, yes believing what I believe is also a choice but how can I say that? uh...Isn't it more the original thing we were meant to do in the beggening meanin that it is not a choice... If you are in high shcool and I ask you where you want to go after and you answer me "high school" it's not so much of a big choice in changes. Your just staying at the same level for you to again ask yourself later where you should go after high shcool.

If there is a conflict in which I have to chose between my need or in someone else's need that could be a poor one, my decision can change in wheter I think the situation is the best to be resolved.

Well maybe it is selfish but not in the bad selfish. Don't ask me the impossible here :P

Hi EmoCookieDough,

Not really.

Fanatics like to make mountains out of molehills so they will make distinctions which don't necessarily exist.  See Jell-O of all flavours, even the non Jell-O brand gelatins are made pretty much the same way what sets them apart is colour and flavour.  Fundamentalists would ignore the similarities and focus on the differences and say, because I eat Lime instead of Raspberry, I am going to hell.

But you can't just throw anything in a bowl and call it Jell-O.  There are some rules that need to be followed so that you actually have Jell-O and not a mess.  You have to boil the water and you have to stir it really well.  Okay, well you don't have to stir it really well.  You have to stir it really well so that you don't get that horrible rind at the bottom of the bowl which tastes like the flavour but has the texture of partially dried snot.

Nothing really needs to be said.  I'm just pointing out that you were concerned about making the right choice and in the end you settled on a choice but have no real idea whether or not it is the right one. 

Fair enough.  I'm just getting you to look a little closer and see what is going on.  That's all.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I get that (that you're just trying to make me think but I felt like I had to answer anyways)

And yeah, but isn't also true that fanatics take the bible to seriously even though most of are just expressions and ways to set a good image or whatever?

Hello again, Emo

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.  That's kind of what I figured!

Your welcome :)

Hi Emo !

• You beat out all the other "Emo's " so you are the very first on the WonderCafe. Welcome! I'm teasing you. I've been reading your thread titled "Acceptance"   (I think...?)
•  
• I'm going to go way out on a limb and say that I think with all of the confusion going on in your life right now  (your father etc.) that its too big a job for you to pick any certain religion at the present time. I'm thinking:
•  
• Treat others the way you would like them to treat you.

and

• What goes around comes around.....meaning  the bad things you do will come back on top of your head in the future  as well as the good things.
•  
• Your Friend
• Simple Simon

:)

I agree with Stardust. Religion is not necessary in order to life a full life. Just be the kind of person you want to be and try to enjoy life whenever you can.

God did come to Earth and explained the truth. He came in the form of Jesus, about 2000 years ago. You can read about him and his teachings in the Holy Bible.

Peace in Christ.

CookieDough

You forgot to come back here so I'll post and shoot it up top for you. Did you read any of the other boards like relationships and parenting ? You might find some answers there re your father. I haven't read them lately so I don't really know but there are a lot of good topics.

P.S. Good writing by Rev. John on jello. Finally I know why mine is always sticky on the bottom....lol.

:-)

Agreed.  I believe also that science isn't nexessary in order to progress.  Especially in certain fields (language, art, theology..well duh about that last one...). 

Of course there are exceptions to all of these, but so are there exceptions to everything.

Assalaam Alaiykum

yeah, you have a good idea stardust :)

Everythime I want to write your name I write starbox (a coffee shop)

EmoCookieDough

Starbucks......Yes! That's me ! Drop in any time. I'm open 24/7. I don't care what you call me but don't call me late for dinner.....

:-)

 Welcome, EmoCookieDough!  Another under-18-year-old who actually participates in the forum!  Yay!

Most of everything I want to say has been said.  RevJohn did ask how some religions become more popular than others.  It's a very good question.  For one thing, religions are largely cultural constructs, and they rise and fall with cultures.  Those that are not part of an entire culture usually won't survive or at least will be pretty tiny.  Cultural religions are often a conglomerate of such smaller beliefs and ideas within a culture.  Full-scale polytheisms, for example, often were formed out of a number of tribal totem deities becoming part of one larger belief system as part of a sort of cultural truce.

 Also, Richard Dawkins has a theory, which some of you have probably heard of, called memetics.  It's basically natural selection applied to ideologies.  Any belief or belief system ('meme' or 'memeplex') 'tries' to reproduce itself by being passed on from person to person.  Memes that bring cultures to prosperity will become dominant, because those with the winning memes will be more likely to survive than those without them.  This doesn't mean religions are dominant because they're 'good' or they 'work'.  For instance, more aggressive Indo-European religions became dominant because they encouraged their followers to go out and conquer, in an age where war was practically unheard of.  It is self-destructive in the long term - that's what's called a self-destructive meme or memeplex, which can still thrive as long as it offers short-term survival benefits, though it may be bad for the species as a whole.

match3: Are you always very busy?  If not, please take some time and don't answer everything in sound bites.