Hi blackbelt1961

 

 

There is no quota which means that there is no cap on forgiveness.  God has compassion on those he shows compassion and mercy on those he shows mercy.

 

I suspect that the best answer I can formulate would be as often as God deems necessary.

 

 

Knowing the truth doesn't automatically equip individuals to do the truth.  The tools and abilities of doing are habits formed over a lifetime.  Struggling with sin is taxing and it wears folk out.  It is preferable to simply giving in and resisting no more.

 

If God were somehow a "gotcha" type of God who lurked in the shadows waiting for anyone to screw up so he could get all smitey then God would not have to wait long and we'd all have been seriously smited six ways from Sunday by now.

 

For those who struggle with sin God offers grace.

 

 

No quota on that either.  Like God and forgiveness I expect the number is somewhere around as often as we deem it necessary.  Bearing in mind that we probably repent stuff that we don't need to and ignore repenting stuff we really ought to.

 

Repentence is a work in progress.

 

 

Continuous repentence is an unproductive life.  Once you put your hand to the plow you are supposed to focus on a goal and walk toward it.  That is the only way you can hope to plow a straight row.  If you are constantly looking over your shoulder at all your past mistakes your row looks like you plowed drunk.

 

And if we forget to repent?  Again that is what Grace is about.  If God is a scorekeeper we will all lose.

 

 

This is the only item on the list that has any biblical support to it.  I think that for blasphemy to be accomplished one has to have some idea of what one is doing.  I do not think that this is an easy sin to commit, which is odd because so many others are laughably easy.

 

 

No biblical support for this position.  Roman Catholics were one of the first to list this as sin and Protestant Churches have not seen fit to remove it.  Personally, I still find suicide sinful.  I do not believe it is so grievous that God could not or would not forgive it.  And yet, many of my brothers and sisters in the Christian faith disagree with my perspective.

 

Disputable matters rules apply then.  Because I believe it is a sin I am forbidden from committing suicide.  I pass no judgment on my brothers or sisters who feel and act differently.  As I have been shown grace it is most fitting that I show it.

 

 

No biblical support for this position.  It is typically a position held by the Arminian groups of theologies which place stronger emphasis on the free-will of the individual over and against the sovereign grace of God.

 

A lot of my Christian brothers and sisters really believe hard on this.  They are still, in my understanding wrong to do so.  Wronger still for thinking Christianity is a stick to beat folks with instead of a carrot to lure folk closer to God.

 

I will allow that stubborn rejection presents a bad optic.  One which is not particularly hopeful.  Still, I think what should be centre focus is the grace of God and not human rejection.

 

I mean those of us who take the biblical narrative seriously already know that the chief problem of scripture is how humanity has fallen and the chief end of God is to redeem what has fallen.

 

God redeems.  It is the mighty arm of God which saves.

 

Does that salvation reach any or all with scads of time to spare?  Will any, other than God, pretend to know the timeline of salvation for each individual being saved?

 

If it is all about humans not rejecting in one way or another then we are toast.

 

If it really is all about God being might enough to save, even from the pit then put your trust in God and do not be afraid.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

In my opinion, sins are mistakes. And we learn by making mistakes. Making mistakes, and then seeing them as such and not repeating them, is what the learning process is all about. People who don't make mistakes don't learn.

 

When a mistake is remedied as soon as it is seen as a mistake, then it becomes a valuable learning experience. Then the negativity of the mistake is transcended and becomes something positive.

 

The transcendental power of God at work in the here and now.

 

 

 

 

 

There is not forgivness of sin while in modern christianity as defined by the patriarchy of Rome ... if you don't think "like the lover" you'll be screwed as not wishing to go where heh did ... it you were the luv'd did yah get it?

 

It is pure mistake to put your intelligence into a woman; now consider what's wrapped up in DNA or that small knot of stuff you displaced ... a fair shunning experience so your experiences could be passed on as subtle intellect?

 

Funny thing authority feels they are more entitled to screw things up than common people. Thus pagans are more harshly judged and screwed over thoughtlessly ... look at what the missionary style was in aboriginal territories. The while out there did they believe no one would know?

 

If there are rye soles in haven ... will you see everyone whos' been screwed by authority?

 

Back to the patriarchy of Rome: "The common people should know"! And thus we keep making the same mistakes as authoritarian role models ... in which the pious still demand that adultry is right because it wasn't true love ... it was sheer lack of thought and lack of thinking is ideal in burrying your mistakes ... almost like doctering ...!

 

Thus stupidity is believed good! Something to ponder about the favourability of selling forgiveness ... a funct-shine that comes in many ways ... like paid dispensations? Is there a protesting form? You must be withing the gorse of the church or you're lost ... sometimes appears best to Luce ID and the emotional baggage was tossed overboard---Jonah! Who was open minded to the ghosts of love and thought a devilish story of Seman tics ...Told without really knowing multidimensional things ... layers of the scrolled fabris of mind ... bolts that could scare yah when penetrated into?

I guess I rather fall in with Arm. There should be no unpardonable sin because sins are the mistakes we make on the road that we learn from. Period. If there is an unpardonable sin, then that reflects more on God than the on sin or the sinner.

 

In the end, my faith is not focussed on forgiveness and salvation in a traditional sense of getting us into Heaven/resurrected into the Kingdom, but on forgiveness and salvation as reconciliation with each other and The Divine. These are gifts of God/the heart, not rewards for good behaviour.

 

Mendalla

 

Rev John 

 

besides the fact that I love you, can you elaborat on what the unpardonable sin is, so we know what we are descusing 

We must share sin ... so we learn not to do that again. Gods like Caesar incarnate would rahter not know and thus you can do it again ... not gaining anyknowledge at all and thus that prohibition of knowledge from the incarnate god and not the carnate god ...

 

Does that need explicit expansion or stretch to the matter? Some take this to the extreme and blow minds completely PTSD ... Sin'd Rome ... emotions always come back as something else ... another genre in the parable?

 

Does knowing and not knowing create two separate sects of intellectual varience? Could that develop into a massive spectre world wars over religion?  I believe I'll take the anabaptist route and skip out like light dirt on the water .. bouncing stones, or just participles of light nature ... some people get so upset over they grey Mere and not the genre therein ...

 

Did you know that to many past corrupt authority that literacy was a sin? That's the word ... and perhaps why some people hate to read ... carnate/carnal fear ... so sadistic it depresses my soul how people believe crap ... and don't know it's proper use!

Hi blackbelt1961,

 

 

The unforgiveable sin, according to Mark 3:  29, is to blaspheme/slander the Holy Spirit.

 

Blasphemy, by definition is:

 

According to the biblical text definitions 1, 2a, seem most applicable.  So I'll stick with them.

 

Impious simply means lacking reverence so it falls into line with the commandment about not taking the Lord's name in vain though specifically it is the Holy Spirit's name which should not be taken in vain.

 

What would that look like as an example?  In the scripture it is attributing to Satan what is really the work of the Holy Spirit so when Jesus is casting out demons by the Holy Spirit and the Priests and others claim that Jesus is possessed and casts out other demons by the authority of the prince of demons the priests and scribes are identifying the Holy Spirit as the prince of demons.  They are walking the razor's edge blasphemy wise but not quite in it.

 

Jesus mocks their explanation and gives the house divided amongst itself cannot stand lesson before giving the warning about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

What I take away from the encounter is that the response of the priests is more reactionary than thoughtful.  It is certainly irreverent but more than that, it is ignorant.  This adds a dimension of intention to the charge so that it is not something anyone does by accident.

 

Once Jesus clarifies how he casts out demons the priests and other opposers abandon that argument.  They may not believe him, they still are wary of the allegations they make that might ultimately point back to God to their detriment.

 

Which I suppose is why more contemporary translations drop the word blasphemy and choose to translate the Greek as slander.

 

Slander by definition is:

 

While many Christians feel that God can be slandered we cannot prove God to exist.  We cannot take God to court nor can God called to be a witness in a court of law.  So can folk who don't believe in God slander God?  Maybe they can.  I trust God to be a big deity capable of being able to look after God's self so I don't spend much time policing what others think or say from that perspective.  And if they don't believe in God they likely don't believe in the Holy Spirit so that is no skin off my back.

 

So I think that there are some conditions to actually successfully blasphemeing/slandering the Holy Spirit.

 

1.  You have to believe in the Holy Spirit.

 

2.  You have to have engaged in some forethought about what you were going to say rather than being caught up in some moment (ie., if I hit my thumb with a hammer I might say something very irreverant that I might not otherwise say if I was thinking clearly--God is not going to see me in pain and say, rules are rules off to hell you go.  Though I wouldn't be suprised to be admonished in some way because of my off the cuff remarks).

 

3.  You have to know that you are speaking a falsehood about the Holy Spirit and/or the work of the Holy Spirit.  Ignorance is forgiveable.  Once corrected continuing in that error is willful.

 

We could have a whole other thread on how do I know that correction has been sufficient.  I mean, it happens here frequently right?  I disagree with someone or someone disagrees with me.  How is that actually correction?  Acid test would be an acknowledgement of that correction in some manner.

 

As the priests above and their attribution of liberation of demons by the prince of demons rather than the Holy Spirit.  Jesus taught them how foolish their idea was (house divided against itself not being able to stand) and while they didn't like Jesus they had to admit that he pointed out how foolish their argument was and so even if they didn't believe him they weren't about to offend the Holy Spirit.

 

Professor James Payton Jr. (one of my Profs at Redeemer) was once asked about this particular sin in one of my theology classes.  I found his answer much briefer than this one and much wiser to boot.

 

In essence, if you are worried about committing this particular sin you haven't.  If you aren't worried about this particular sin you either don't need to or it is way to late to start.

 

Professor Payton seemed to think it was something that only a seriously hardened heart was capable of managing.  I find that a very sensible conclusion.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

Is the holy spirit a ghost with voids? Would such an absence of the genre allow the light through?

 

Real hard shelled hearts wouldn't like that ... learning and reasoning about things you're not supposed to know ...

 

You know some UCC ministers still believe that? Some of my aquaintances say they find that hard to believe ... but believe me ... I've been told stupidity is best ... a form on non-knowledgeable existence ... like the lesson of the tree in Genesis 2  ... but alas in parable that two can be turned on end as reverse psychology works ... as right through the "i" of the Ka milieu ... an ugly sense of chaos ...

 

If someone of desire tells somebody to do something without thought ... It'll stop the advocation right in the tracks and the lessor of the two will become speachless ... or otherwise ineffable ...

 

I can't tell you the reason as I'm told that would be irrational ... which has further impli-cations. Did you know a impish Cation is like a loose proton-IHZ ... manna of speaking so that you won't be accused of free thought ... a theme of areopagitica? Such themes or genres are rarely known as they are fey ... hard to grip!

Gotta love being illusive like Luce ferrous that guy with Daniel in the pot bellied stove firing up the irony ... this came to be known later as Lucy Faere as dug up in the depths of the African Rift ... a mire bones of the original myth or soul as pas'ð ... as those things inside can bug yah ... unless your well hung up on 1!

 

Double talk on denied sex ... no problem! The more you learn the more the gorse of connction makes sense ...soma attica? That'be height of space ... haute culture?

Hi BlackBelt--

Forgiveness of sin

There is but one way open, or hope for Mankind in this case . That being to accept Jesus The Christ for there sinns.Once you put on Christ Jesus, Your sinns are no more. For you have become a part of Christ.

Dose this mean we should not worrey about sin . No by no means , It means we are no long under the law . So we can't sin.We must remember though the way of the Christ was not the flesh . But the Spirit. So He did what GOD told Him to do , and what He seen GOD do.He lived not by the will of the flesh. But the will of The Spirit. We who are weak must learn.So comes in The Holy Spirit . which will teach us.

___________________________________________

Now I believe your secound part some what harder to answer .

My understanding  is there is only one unpardonable sin which is Blasphemy of the Spirit , but I have read that there are actually 3 non forgivable sins

1)    Blasphemy of His Sprit

 

Mat 12:31

Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

 

	Mat 12:32	And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

 

2)    suicide

My belief in salvaion is . You  can be saved  as long as your alive. You can ask GODS forgivenss though Christ. and I believe He will forgive.Thats why killing ones self . Or destroying the flesh is wrong  and can't be forgiven. For you are dead an cannot ask.  Now there may be that, one may give up there life knowingly dying to save others . This suicide"  I believe GOD looks on this  kind  completely different. This being one of the greats things one can do for another.

____________________________________

 

3)    stubborn rejection of His Son

This one I fine od. stubborn rejection of  Jesus The Christ. Ofcouse if you reject Jesus The Christ . you are not saved . So are judged by the way you lived  your life .And so have sinned . Even one of which can find you Guilty.

God Bless --airclean33

 

 

SUICIDEas a mortal sin ...

 

Did Christ commit suicide in his martyr like ways ... thus condemnend to wander foever below the horizon of superficially aware folks?

 

Is this enlightened humour for the depths of film noire ... as sort of dark pall 've Rome?

 

Does the bible say there is a RIPP Eire in this fabric ...? God help us we could fall through into subliminal understanding ... is that humble or what as lower that the higher up haute airy types ...

 

 

 

It depends on who you are speaking to -----People who are still under the Law ---which is the Mosaic Covenant ----or those of us who are under Grace ----

 

Under the Law if we confess our sins God will forgive our sins ----Under Grace our past --present and future sins are remembered no more ----so when we accept Jesus we are no longer sinners in God's eyes -----

 

 

 

Your Quote     -----How many times must  we repent -----

 

Every time Under the Law -----Never under Grace ---

 

Your Quote   -----what if we forget to repent and then we as you say Kick the buck

 

Under the law you are going to Hell ----Sin cannot enter Heaven ----Under Grace your sins are not remembered and you have the Holy Spirit so your Spirit is Holy and can enter Heaven -----

 

We don't go to Hell for the sins we commit by themselves ---we go to Hell for rejecting the one person who can cleanse our sins -----we go to hell for rejecting Jesus -----Abraham ---Noah all the Old testament godly people went to the upper regions of Hell until Jesus died and took them to Heaven --

 

Suicide is a sin and comes under murder -----you are committing self murder ---Our Body is not ours ---it belongs to God ----so any harm we inflict upon our Physical Body is the same as murdering someone -----

 

 

This is my take on your post -----Peace

wasn't Jesus supposed to have taken up all of humanity's past, present & future missing the mark so that humanity doesn't have to worry aboot sin any more?

 

(and what aboot such affronts against g_d as lack of hospitality & not stoning a homosexual?)

 

(aboot blasphemy laws -- these, imho, have caused way too much pain, hurt & suffering.  i grok why they were made -- control of a population.  we still have them in our culture with such things as pornography laws, hate speech laws, blasphemous libel...)

 

The unpardonable sin in short terms ----

 

Is that Jesus had a unclean Spirit -----

 

 

Peace

Not believing in the theology of divine forgiveness and salvation, I don't think there is such a thing as an "unpardonable" sin. But I think there is a worst human mistake, from which we have not yet learned.

 

I think our worst mistake is not trying to become aware of our innate godliness or divinity, and not thinking and acting in that spirit.

 

Unfortunately, conventional Christian religion perpetuated this worst human mistake. By persistently putting God out there as the separate cosmic creator/dictator, it upheld the separate authoritarian God, and withheld godlliness and divinity from us.

I don't believe divinity is held from us . For Jesus said . Did I not say you are gods? We must be carful then" . For as we know by GODS word there are more than one who claim, to be GOD. I believe that is why we spend a short time in flesh. WE must understand an  know GOD has made us what we are . GOD will teach us how we are to be used, and how to  use it.  We need to liston to what Jesus said. The Christ was and is a GOD.. He was an is a part of GOD The Father. He said I only do what the Father says or wants. This is the right way. The other god says .I will put my throwen above GODS and will not do the Fathers will.The way of Christ is The Fathers way. Any other way is the wrong way.--airclean33

 

The scriptures do not say we are gods (small g), though that virse is use by many new agers to say that we are. But apart from scriptures I do not believe that if we were godly divine, that such divine creatures can be so destructive to humanity and the planet. 

 

bad language and charater is not blasphemous

If we were gods would we be dangerous if we didn't have some clues and cares?

 

Some gods in an idealism of their own say the general population should be sustained in a stupid state so we wouldn't know how the gods were screwing us over very shrewdly!

 

Explain to me the ignorance of conspiracy theory again and how stupidity can creep up on you without any effort atoll ... a lazy mahaineim? That'd be a floating dreamer ... sorry ... plagerized from Mark Twain sort of tongue in cheek like the great viper ... toxic knowledge to the desires? Perhaps a po' metaphor for those that don't see into weird literary devices ... word being vice if knowledge is evil to the gods!

 

 The taming of the shrew, or the screw'd could cause a great deadly game to those looking in from outside the system ... Heiseinberg Conjecture. But then there are those that say no conjecture is true as if can't be proved (as a thought-like non-entity) especially since the soul isn't here to ponder the depth of the dilemma! The soul was saved somewhere else so the mortal gods would screw that up too ... you do know how redaction works ... allows the lessons of history to be negated ... a negative emotion as conflicted with negative thoughts? Is there some connection in the aÐ'md things as subtle? Almost hypostasis in nature ... stopped underfoot or is that just a moving mote in de light ... Browning Motion? Could this be turned into a breach action by an arms making group that could sell to the half cocked type ...

 

Alas some of them are on full cock and could go off at any moment given the unstable nature of the mental sickness of this land ... virtually starved of Q'lews ... the subtle parts of the myth ...

 

yes we would be dangerous, firsty people use the word God as a name , its not, God is a Tittle, which is what Jesus was telling the pharasies , If the scriptues say you are gods, (in a position to goveren your people), then Act like it, 

Do we as a social (dis)order or is that another chaos ... opposition to L'uv as H'8 ... if you loose yourself in icons you can deny that you're thinking ... not a good thing when living with a people mostly based on lies.

 

We've heard them so much we don't even dig for the truth ... the lies so thick ... like a Zepher over the land--- Zephaniah 3:16 covering how God is a' palled in a man and recesses from humility ... hydro phobia, or hypo critical of free wiles without reverence? That's allal in Hebrew like a lull in the gravid genre for thought? The Hebrew though of this as a holiday ... a hoel in the page boy!

 

How does one draw ID out? Some say feed it a myth to counter the lyon's Tories ...

 

That's exactly why we are so destructive: because we are not aware of our innate divinity!

Hi Arminius,

 

 

Well it certainly couldn't be because we as gods are not particularly adept at benevolence.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

Well, the same goes for benevolence. We aren't particularly adept at benevolence because we are not aware of our innate divinity.

 

The Grace you wish for for everyone is this very awareness, called visio divina, divine seeing and being, by some Christian mystics. You believe that Grace is dealt out by God without our choosing, but I think it is attainable by everyone—if we forego egocentricity.

 

Egocentricity, however, is a necessary animal instinct that has evolved to keep us alive and well. We are gods in animal form, and it sometimes is difficult for us to tell where healthy egocentricity ends and unhealthy selfishness and destructiveness begins.

 

But, as I said many times before, if we remain grounded in the unitive awareness of being at-one with God, and with everyone and everything, then we can't go too wrong.

 

that dosent say much for being divine  if its able to lose its awareness. I think Ill stick to being human, at least I can remmber what i ate last night 

 

 

Hi Arminius,

 

 

I appreciate that you believe that.  I'm also very aware that it isn't.

 

 

Ummmmm.  If that is true, their Latin sucks.  Lectio Divina is praying with scripture.  Visio Divina is praying with images or other media (it is a practice of the Orthodox tradition--hence the icons).

 

Grace may flow throught the practice of Visio Divina.  Grace itself is not Visio Divina.

 

When I wish grace and peace upon people I am operating with the standard theological definition of "unmerited favour" not "self-awareness".  In my theological framework grace is soemthing somebody gives to me or I to them it is not something I embrace for myself.  Nor does that grace only become effective when I realize it has been given.

 

Grace removes the burden immediately even if it takes me some time to straighten my back. 

 

 

That is the essence of the definition of the word.  Even if we remove God from the definition the essence of the word is that it is something given not something grasped.

 

 

Then you are talking about a reward which is earned.  Not the same thing as grace.

 

Unless you limit the definitions of grace to elegance or beauty of form or a pleasing/attractive quality.  Which works if one is operating within the secular definitions of the term.  I limit my definitions to the theological.

 

 

Again I appreciate that this is what you believe.  I don't find it particularly convincing.  Your explanation is inconsistent.  At first we have to forgo egocentricity then you raise the spectre of healthy (and by extension unhealthy) egocentricity.

 

And when grace is no longer something which is given but rather something we earn we haven't forgone egocentricity we are embracing it.

 

 

I appreciate your position.  I simply don't share it.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Lectio Divina  under the power of prayer?

 

Does this indicate an underlying power of contemplation and conception of dark thoughts? The Romans in latin called this aÐ'm-ism and said there was noting to it and thus superficial prayers were conceived of ... sort of like shallow ego as counter to superior egos that look down on whatever supports eM ... never, neverdeny the wee things ... it is scriptural ... but perhaps something generally unseen by those with the power of fore gotton stuff or that sur pas'd ...

 

Hi John:

 

Thank you for your thorough reply.

 

I also appreciate your position, but don't share it.

 

Unshared thoughts or displaced wisdom as sacred ... sacre diem? Maybe just heiros gammos ... men of simple words don't understand that either (sort of dark) something to challenge empty spots with ... I daresn't identify such things as "O" mire captions of emotions ... when opened up they weep like "c" ... light salted parables ...

 

To get a grip on God one has to understand the tongues of all men (glososalia in unknown form?) can be misleading so prepare for some false raptures ... cracks in the street wisdom that really arn't ... as described in some of those timely comments on wisdom in Proverbial form and Ecclesiates! It can separate men it says ... from what?

- Hi Black belt--You may have missed this.

 

Psa 82:6

I say, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;

 

 

Jhn 10:34

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?

God Bless--airclean33

 Many imperfect mortal gods miss a lot thats buried in scripture ... why many authorities would rather not have a large mass of common people read scripture as the numbers would outweigh isolated authority ... and thus Jaque became I's Rae-L ... as a spinning light or Light Hoes as they socked ID to eM!

 

That'd be even more satirical than conservative sorts imagine ...

 

Thus it is best to scare peaple away from primitive syntax altogether and great efforts were made by Romans and their followers to keep people illiterate ... consider King J'aimes and what he desired ... out weighed his intellectual quotient ... that later became an inverse relation to the internal-"i" ... that line of light with a mote ... applied speck, spot, or damned dot Ur of knowledge that's leading ...

 

According to past areopagite efforts the struggle to control speech and press is astounding ... conservatively speaking little is known of this to the point many people don't know of what I speak. This is best or like people in and around 1600 I'D be roasted worse that Dean Martin, or Ricki Gervais in stoic churches ... thats the way it is until we see the value of widespread wisdom ... also no matter how bad it makes people feel about UNSAFE Sects ... and clearing the Air of false breaks in the Eire ... sort of like negative raptures ... things that bug yah like Carobs ... crap-Pi insects?

 

Their use is obtuse to common knowledge ... now in uncommon wisdom ... that's entirely something else than unalterable truth ... it has some stretch of God involved and thus more encompassing warmth! Sort of like a good myth that is penetrating ... where some parables as preached upon by the common ... are just too much to take ... lets pick the strnager of the two and go with the devil ... heh all red faced and stumbling all over ID'selve once separed a but for sacred looking into ... that may be parabolic method of hyperbole ... that going on above the visibled ish/ithchii ... that's a false fissure ... an John un equal to anything experience?

 

Confusion over good and bad though is good for the business of selling dispensations ... like the sin-buster of smoky hollow ... that burned out spot called an over emotional mind ... when burned it just isn't ... like psyche out of here ... following ARM and me on the way out ... leads to uncommon wisdom parts ... the womb overhead ... that's "aL"!

Hi  Arminius--You posted--

Well, the same goes for benevolence. We aren't particularly adept at benevolence because we are not aware of our innate divinity.

 

The Grace you wish for for everyone is this very awareness, called visio divina, divine seeing and being, by some Christian mystics. You believe that Grace is dealt out by God without our choosing, but I think it is attainable by everyone—if we forego egocentricity.

 

Egocentricity, however, is a necessary animal instinct that has evolved to keep us alive and well. We are gods in animal form, and it sometimes is difficult for us to tell where healthy egocentricity ends and unhealthy selfishness and destructiveness begins.

 

But, as I said many times before, if we remain grounded in the unitive awareness of being at-one with God, and with everyone and everything, then we can't go too wrong.

________________________________

Airclean--I told you 2-3 years ago .I beieve there was something in your posts that came through ,somewhat  the way I believed . As you and I don't always see eye to eye.I am sure you though I was fooling around with you. Now you have  posted  this almost what I believe. What I have underlined I have never heard or seen any other person post or say. What we are in, this way.  I agree we are being fooled by what we are in, the flesh. Also from another outside force that wants us to fail sa-tan.  And by another outside force that is for good that  wants us to win GOD,  JESUS ,.Holy Spirit. Just thought I would post an let you know.  --airclean33

Thank you , Jesus was not saying we are gods in the term we use it 

the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth.

 

This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew wordElohimis translated “judges” inExodus 21:6and22:8,9, and28.

I understand we are sons of God, that does not make us gods, Jesus was telling the pharasies, if you are in a position of god like rule and repsentatives , then act like it. 

 

-I am having  some problem understanding what your posting Blackbelt. You are a child of GOD . But your father is not GOD?My belief says I have put on Christ Jesus, an as Jesus was and is a Son of GOD so am. I . As My Father is God then I am part of the GOD family. So what else could I be but a god? Blackbelt I could give at least 2 more  passages from GODS word that show we are made from GOD  and are a part of GOD Himself. Even are foe on earth sa-tan is a Son of GOD.-God Bless --airclean33-Gord

 

I believe i am a son of God yes, I do not believe I have any divinity in me as God does, I am a son , not a god. 

The word god in scripture has been used to explain a position or title of a person, or it has been explaind as in the Divinity of the Creator. 

 

mabey im not explaining myself as good as i should

 

rev John or Rev Seve if you can explain it better I wellcoem your comments please 

BlackBelt --My Brother--John 1: 3

 

Jhn 1:3

all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Who made you?

 

	Col 1:15	He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
	Col 1:16	for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
	Col 1:17	He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Who made all things?

____________________________________________

 

Deu 32:6

Do you thus requite the LORD, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?

So this is are Father.

______________________________________________

 

	Jhn 20:21	Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."
	Jhn 20:22	And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
	Jhn 20:23	If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Who can forgive sinns?

My Brother I hope it helps you. God Bless .-airclean33-Gord

airclean

 

you believe you are a god?

Hi blackbelt - No I believe we all are a part of that which is called GOD. Thats why I believe any that are lost make a difference. So much difference in the universe is darkend a little by the loss of even one. We I believe Brother are a part of the Light of life.I also believe it is of yet truly not understood, what we really are.What a wonderful GOD we have B.B. -- May He always Bless you.  airclean33- Gord

 

Hi blackbelt   -----your quote     I believe i am a son of God yes, I do not believe I have any divinity in me as God does, I am a son , not a god. 

The word god in scripture has been used to explain a position or title of a person, or it has been explaind as in the Divinity of the Creator. 

 

This is the scripoture that refers to us as gods -----The Jews were going to stone Jesus for Blasphemy   and Jesus answers them ---

 

 

The scripture clearly says we are CALLED gods ---It does not say We Are gods -----it also says that scripture cannot be set aside ---cancelled or annulled ----We Humans need to understand just who we are in Christ and what authority we have ----

 

When we accept Christ we are reconnected to Him as we have the Spirit of God so we have God'S DNA ---- We now have the Nature of God on the inside of us -----and in Genesis God gives Humans the authority over all the earth --and He makes Humans in Quote ----Our  likeness ---which means we humans are a tri part being as God is and we have His Nature and capabilities of manifesting our Faith ---God said --- then God saw what He said  -----Peter- a man walked on water ----we can cast out demons --heal the sick ----Jesus says to His disciples this ------when He cursed the fig tree ---Jesus spoke to a thing and it died from the roots up -----he says we can do the same and not only that but we can cast all  mountains into the sea by speaking to it ---now your mountain is your situations that come against you ----- How Powerful is that --

 

 

So we are small gods in Nature when we are Boirn Again------We are Not God ---This is what  airclean33 is saying ------and scripture confirms it ------you of course can believe this or not up to you -----but I personally can tell you that when you get this ---it makes all the difference in the world to your life ----

 

Peace

Hi blackbelt1961,

 

 

Always game to try.

 

The Bible records two distinct paths to sonship.

 

The first is to be born of the father in the way that Jesus was.  Jesus is fully God and fully human.  Divinity is then natural to Jesus.

 

The second is to be adopted by the father in the way that the rest of us are.  We are still children of God we just do not share in the divine nature of God.  Even with the Holy Spirit dwelling within us we remain completely human

 

This is where the historical (Christian) emphasis on Jesus as begotten rather than created and the rest of us as creature rather than creator.

 

At no time am I promised to be divine, just that I will have access to the divine.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Thank you John

Can't you further explain why Jesus said to the Pharisees did I not say you are gods

Hi blackbelt1961,

 

 

Jesus appears to be referencing Psalm 82:  6.  It would probably be wise to start there and discern what is being said in the context of that Psalm.

 

In verse 1 the Psalmist places God in the context of the divine council and it is the rest of the council which are described as gods.  At least, that is the way it reads in some translations.

 

At any rate this part of the Psalm is written from a 3rd person perspective.

 

By the time we get to verse 6 the Psalm is written from a 1st person perspective.  Are we to understand that this is God speaking or the Psalmist?

 

Verse 7 defines the nature of the gods "you shall die like mortals and fall like any prince."  Clearly there is nothing divine about them if they are mortal.

 

It would appear that gods is being employed as a title like Lord or King.

 

Now why does Jesus use it? 

 

To draw the distinction between his position as begotten son and theirs as adopted children.  Both are included as children of God the distinction is necessary because it establishes Jesus as firstborn.

 

Can we as Christians claim the title?

 

It tracks as arrogant but it is not unlawful.  It isn't us claiming anything more than an adopted relationship.  Certainly we aren't claiming anything approaching God's power.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

 

Thank you Rev John :) 

Hi Rev John --Could you tell me  your understanding of these?

 

	Gal 4:3	So with us; when we were children, we were slaves to the elemental spirits of the universe.
	Gal 4:4	But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
	Gal 4:5	to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
	Gal 4:6	And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
	Gal 4:7	So through God you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son then an heir.
	Gal 4:8	Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods;

 

 

Hbr 2:11

For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

God Bless --airclean33

Can we escape being god's without causing a break in the fabric? That's the weakest link ... why there are fallouts in the whole thing as we know god to be almost collected when out there ... but looses it when here with smll minds peoples that don't wish to grow into the intellect that's defined as out-there !

 

The re-spinning of the fabric appears to be as enjoyable as a good screwup in the kitchen that is fed to the wee people, in light of what they wouldn'ta got previously according to areopagus sociaety that is haute-i ... thus the fallout for humble passing through the Seder of Booths ... basket cases? You know þ'aegus .. sometime Beta inscribed as Baccus ... will give you a whine ... this degraded to aDonis and dionysis at one time ... one has to know evolution ... especially of WORD ... a very catagorical componet of connection of stryed thoughts ... OBI's?

 

Knowledge of this side can give you phttzzz about what some people believe in an isolated state of all that's out there ...

 

God bless us all with crap ... the infinite fundus? Jumbed through nodes some splatter can be expected as if throught the "i"' of calm 'elle ...  sometime bicameral ... allows focus of the fore ... or what's called ante ... me mudders cysturn ... cesspool of thought to many that despise thoughts as it they were brussel sprouts ... a product of Maas in khol months?

Hi airclean33

 

 

The text from Galatians that you highlight (Galatians 4:  3-8) points to a number of issues.  Primarily these verses are addressing the doctrine of adoption.  Galatians 4:  5 makes that very plain.  Part of that redemption process is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  

 

The text from Hebrews that you highlight (Hebrews 2: 11) is one which apparently has a multitude of possible translations.

 

You have selected the RSV for some reason which is not clear to me.  I suspect you might be curious about the phrase, "have all one origin."

 

This is how it stacks up against other translations:

RSV--For he who sanctifices and those who are sanctified have all one origin.

NRSV--For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father

KJV--For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:

NIV--Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family.

NLT--Both Jesus and the ones being made holy have the same Father.

 

The Greek reads simply "eks enos pantes" which translates most literally as " all from one"

 

The question then is from one what?  Translators have attempted to fill in the blank by supplying origin/family/Father.  In this instance the KJV is the closest literal translation.

 

Arguments can be made from the surrounding text, specifically verse 10, that since God is already explicit in the text surrounding this verse God is implicit within this verse.  With this understanding at play the NRSV is probably the best at capturing the meaning of the verse.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

 

 

Hi Rev John -- I read The R.S.V thats all. But there is something thats I believe you may have have missed.

 

Gal 4:6

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

 

Hbr 2:11

For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

If so John I believe the word says we all come from GOD and are of Him.

God Bless --airclean33

Hi airclean33,

 

 

I didn't miss it.  I read it in context.

 

 

We are all created by God.  We are the work of his hands.  So no, I don't think I have missed anything.

 

Are you suggesting that there is more going on in these texts than that?

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

When dealing with syntax ... context is everything and context in this case is huge ... not confined ... if oppressed it can cause huge bursts, busts and other slaps in the face ...