|
ABOUT LIFE--YOURS AND MINE--past, present and future.
This thread--connected with the "philosophy of religion..."
which has over 3, 400.000 hits, prompts me to ask:
What roles were, are and ought to be, played by our favourite philosophies, our beliefs, the sciences and the arts we love? REGARDLESS, IS THERE A PROFOUND UNITY OF LIFE, WHICH LINKS US ALL? Pantheism answers, there is. Check out:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/
PANTHEISM AND ECOLOGY
------------------------------- Generally speaking, more and more of us, young and old--including children, students and workers, social leaders, philosophers, educators, scientists and artists, especially students of ecology--are beginning to agree that, in all things, we human beings are interconnected and interdependent. In life, in death, for better and for worse, as human beings, we are inseparable components of a great unity of life and being.
IN MY OPINION
Failure to acknowledge this unity is the source of much that we find painful in life. It is the cause of so much existential anxiety, so much dystopia. This lack of unity is what results in our setting of goals that often conflict with one another (think so-called honour killings); this leads to misery instead of action, to the kind of worrying that leads to depression and anxiety--the source of what is commonly called our existential anxiety--the root of much unnecessary physical, mental and spiritual pain and suffering.
THE GOOD NEWS
The good news is: Simply realizing this can be the beginning of our finding the source of joy and simple peace of mind. http://www.spaceandmotion.com/pantheism.htm#Page The ancient Hebrews were not the first monotheists, but they are often credited with inventing it. They called the source of this profound unity, ELOHIM (The Power to Do), which our English Bible translates as 'God'. Interestingly, when Orthodox Jews today write about the god-hypothesis, in English, they write the divine name, G-d. The dash symbolizes the mystery of it all.
SCIENCES. OVER TO YOU
The challenge to those in the sciences is this: Will we be wise and moral enough to use our sciences to help us solve more and more of the mysteries that cause us so much grief? Any examples?
_________________________
WILL + G-0-D = BEING, not a being--Good, Orderly & Desirable www.flfcanada.com www.unitheist.org |
© WonderCafe. All Rights Reserved
Brought to you by the people of The United Church of Canada
Opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of WonderCafe or The United Church of Canada
Comments
Arminius
Posted on: 02/08/2012 04:08
I think more and more scientists agree that the ultimate state of being is one of unity, and that the totality of being is an inseparable whole in a state of synthesis. If they also acknowledge that the totality is self-creative, then one could call such thinking Pantheism or Unitheism. And if one realizes that the unitive whole is unfathomably greater than the sum of its parts, then it could be Panentheism.
Furthermore, if the unitive whole is in a state of synthesis, and synthesis is antithetical to analysis, then we realize that the unitive whole, as it really is, can only be experienced in the pure, non-analyzed or unconceptualized experience, as in meditation or meditative practice.
And, when we practice meditation, and experience the unitiveness of the universe, then we also experience unitive love, unitive conscience and consciousness, and feel the urge to act on them.
Then we have a spirituality that is sustainable, open-ended, and embraced by science. I trust that we will eventually get there. The biggest hindrance in getting there is, paradoxically and in my opinion, not atheism or secularism but organized religion.
RevLGKing
Posted on: 02/15/2012 00:54
Arm,
I just published this at:
http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/01/11/prove-god-exists-win-usd-1-million...
If you check this out, you will find that whoever is editing this thread (Austine Cline?) has censored what I wrote. This not the first time. After I first published my comments, he raised some interesting questions.
When I responded to his questions, he refused to publish my answers. So I just gave it another try. Again it seems I was censored. What does this tell us about the integrity of this forum and the one who, without giving a reason, refused to publish what I wrote? Let's think of how best to get this matter out in the open.
================================
DEFINING G-0-D & GIVING THE EVIDENCE THAT G-0-D IS
-----------------------
With tongue-in-cheek I write: G-0-D--that is, the One as understood by panENtheists--just revealed the following to me:
"Now that you are a panENtheist, look back to when you were a child. It seems that, like Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein, you were a pantheist. That is, then you simply accepted that I (God) and the universe are identical. The dictionary makes it clear that this is still true, today: the physical universe is my body. My physical existence cannot be denied.
"However, by the time you grew up, you learned a few other things about life: In addition to being ALL things, as Being itself, you learned that I am in and through ALL things. As modern physicists are beginning to discover, I am everywhere, now--EN.
WHAT MORE EVIDENCE DO WE NEED?
Now tell all your friends this good news that I am in them and they are in me. Without even using the name, they, by their actions, use this consciousness and WILLPOWER to make the world a more G-0-D-like place--one that is filled with all that is Good, Orderly and Desirable."
In short, as the writings of John put it, 2000 years ago, G-0-D is Agape-Love. Take care. It is our failure to use this power to do good that is the main cause of pain, suffering, crimes, wars, destruction and the like.
Arminius
Posted on: 02/15/2012 02:18
Hi Linds:
I wouldn't contribute to a forum that twists my comments or refuses them.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/15/2012 12:25
On our thoughts being altered ...
Do we accept this is a norm in a world where we ascede to a single-minded tyranny?
Consider that we are not allowed to say anything as members of a democracy that abide by the law. It is a little known fact that our entire language is copywrited (read the introduction to any dictionary). Does one train to be a daemon? That is simply satire ... and Lucrece fascinates me as one of the fathers of exteme metaphor ... but who would understand of what I speak ... as the Romans looked after Lucrece and his school of thinking.
The hebrew term mahaineim (isolated, or island personality) is a description of what we are ... until engulfed in the great beyond ... consumed as a mire meal? Thus we become a single thought in the infinite case ... what some call God (infinite isolated sentience) that neither Romans nor the powers, Jew-els of the day would accept. Then of course they never had a concept of nothing either ... that fluid dark state that comes out of nowhere and takes your thoughts ... like Gabrielle in the end of that movie Midnight in Paris .... but it is a darkly satirical film that has some whines (Oenon) lingering in the background if you can get the humour in the presentation of time all warped outa shape ... like bent light tucked away in a small dot ... the point of fractal shadows?
Lucrece pondered these profound forces that supported all things in de light of man's destructive tendancies. In the end perhaps all that will be left of our tendancies will be that rabid fecundity ... a very gravid earth with which to begin all over again. There are signs we've been there before ... dah Jah View it ... perhaps you are a profit coming out of all this crap! An onGoan tho'T ah?
In many churches there are no allowed thoughts, minds, nor processing of the aforesaid, even in light of fodder John's comments to me of "not telling me to hang up my psyche on entering church" ... there is a vastly unbalanced side that many minister's do not see as people who think they should be free to do as they please with no responsibility for the outcome. Perhaps the reason so many sculls hang about churches like geists?
I believe that one should think about this as a meditative practice, or transcient motives that pass over to the intuitive side of the abstract mind ... an imaginary thing if some real people could cos ID to be ... thoughts have been mostly eliminated if your look at the surrounding intelligence, data and all that supplied by creation--- that word being solely plaguerized from Webster in the round ... intellect? Halo effect!
Don't tell anyone this for you could lose your head ... but on the airy side it may be the only escape from captivity in a dull body to get at what's out there. I'm told there's no rush ... for right now I am conning a dummie into growing into a real pile of gravid mater ... mudder earth stuffings ... gravi Trons for the distribution Eire process?
Recall that ID has to be spead just Levantine-like ... lightly or the result is septic fucacity .. le gassy state of pedre ... ole Gael phe art ... an intangible that few will understand ... cos they don't wish Tue ... be de death of de bile ... that dark thinking thing'heh all red faced with trying to impose thoughts on dum ß'aes ... empty hed Oenistic forms ... like Circe ... Circus as plural ... in a train wrecked afore it beguine ...
RevLGKing
Posted on: 02/15/2012 19:51
WHY, SINCE I WENT ON LINE IN 1997, I HAVE READ, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE: WHAT ATHEISTS/AGNOSTICS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT DO, OR DO NOT, BELIEVE
In addition to the A.A's that I have met here and at scienceagogo.com -- most, but not all--seem to be polite and reasonable people. However, a little over two years ago I made a specific point of visiting the Atheist/Agnostic section of about.com There, I made it clear, who I was and why I was there. There, also, I found quite a number of A/A's who specialized in flame throwing. When I resisted throwing back, one or two did defend my right to my opinions and beliefs. Interestingly, I have not found many, if any, who are seriously active in any kind of rational approach to religion. Other than myself, no one gives any evidence that they have any in depth theological background.
One of my curiosities is why A/A's are so interested in religion. Some are just curious; some are exploring, mostly in a critical way, the religion in which they were raised; some have an axe to grind and some are outright militant. Openly, they proclaim that there is no such a thing as a good religion. Many even see it as what Freud called, "the universal neurosis" possibly even a psychosis--a form of insanity. This is certainly the view of what the media calls, The New Atheists--Richard Dawkins, the late Christopher Hitchens and others.
For the sake of new readers I repeat: By the time I was five I experienced the deaths of six close members of the family, including my mother (1935). In 1942, I witnessed the sinking of four iron-ore carriers. Sixty-nine merchant seamen lost their lives. At 12, I was on the beach when many of their bodies were brought in and laid out. My father died when I was fourteen (1944). The story of what happened in 1942 can be found at www.bellisland.net
Looking back, I think of the time through which my parents, and us their children lived, as a time of utter chaos, which included two world wars and a severe depression. Probably because of the amount of pain, suffering and death we experienced--and I, at an early age--I have never been comfortable with the 'gods' of the traditional religions, including Christianity--the one in which I was born and raised. In addition, by the time I reached high school and had got interested in the sciences I became very skeptical. No wonder that, in 1947, I went off to www.mta.ca with chips of skepticism on both shoulders. But, no regrets. It was time well-spent.
ABOUT THE MATTER AT HAND
Because I have always been curious as to how we as human beings think, I am doing this as an exercise in communication. I also want to be fair to all involved.
Below Austin Cline's link is his explanation.
http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/01/11/prove-god-exists-win-usd-1-million... AC passes this on:
BTW, Randi, if he is still around, started as a magician in Toronto. I saw him, more than once, on the old Tonight Show, with the late Johnny Carson. He loved to challenge anyone who claimed to have access to supernatural or paranormal phenomena, like psychic powers. He offered to debunk faith healers like Peter Popoff. He also took on the pschic "surgeons" who claimed they could remove tumors without using surgical instruments.
========================================
As I pointed out, earlier: Cline did publish 28 responses--29 as of yesterday--from a number of posters, including several of mine--and they were as I wrote them.
What interests me is this: I suspect that, when I passed on the information about process philosophy and theology--based on the work of A.N. Whitehead and others, including the definitions of 'god' as given by pantheism, especially in its pan-en-theistic form--he had second thoughts as to what to do.
It is possible that, without comment, AC passed on my posts to the agent of Randi's organization. It is also possible that Randi's agent found that pantheism's definition of 'god' was a very concrete one--not that of a an unprovable supernatural being based solely on faith.
BTW, Arm, this begs any number of questions about God, theology and religion, that we could ask ourselves, philosophers and theologians. An enormous number of theological books have been written about the nature and existence of a one true God, the attributes of God, arguments for the existence of God, but who has ever offered any real and concrete evidence that would stand up in court that there is such a god--by any name under the sun?
SCIENCE IS SCIENCE & FAITH IS FAITH--never the twain shall meet.
Is this the bottom like?
Are we who think of ourselves as modern and rational thinkers obliged to accept the opinion that, other than as a matter of faith, theology has no social value; that there is no place for any kind of a supernatural god in the experimental sciences?
WITH THE ABOVE IN MIND, THE FOLLOWING IS ABOUT AN IMPORTANT BOOK--With Or Without God.
GRETA VOSPER BEGINS HER BOOK BY SUGGESTING THAT
IT'S TIME--the freedom and responsibility to reconstruct church
In her book With Or Without GOD--Why the Way We live is More Important Than What We Believe (2008).
She implies that we, too, are living in a moment of utter chaos--a time when great things can happen. But, that it WILL happen is not a given. It WILL happen only if ... [Let us take it from there]
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/16/2012 09:26
LGK,
I liked your comment on neurosis/psychosis ... hints strongly at the existence of the "mind" entity that some people would like us to dispense of ... then we couldn't be sentient particles in this vast place. Arm should like that term ... sentient ... experienced!
There are two types of crazyness ... one of pure thought and one of pure emotion ... pools that could innudate the medium ... a hated persona that can think and care concurrent with the dimple in which they were situated. At the humour of it all I just break down into two puddles; small versions of the large version? Tis a hard place to walk ... ametaphor of de biles causeway ... between two dark floes ... de rived Maas? Flemish stream ...
Of course this smacks of the existence of soul in some other dimension ... where it can't be found for mankind (god's children) didn't wish to know. Now if the mind is nothing, can a mortal make something of it? Dantean humous that bloody the face of both the overtly religio/superstitious (Oz as a power) and the contrary side in ether'n'al stuggle in the vast intellect ... Webster did define IT as out-there ... you're not to bring it to church, hang it in the vestry ... good place for outer fabrics of the myth of soul ... doesn't exist here but in Descartian moðe I think thus! Does that put me out there ... in Ute'pia that hollow infinite worm hole that exists just below the surface of reality ... just to be facetious on atomism and humanitarianism ... as spoken of by Lucrece ... a poem on The Nature of Things as raped and buried by the church to come up in latent time ... now there's a restive thought as hated by the church fathers that didn't like observed intelligance ... what came to be known as science .. despised by those that went by À Priori Rule that was instituted by the church as a flat out situation ... underneath of which the thinking devil RIP'eLs with laughter ... mire th' chaqan in old tongues!
Have you read the account of Lucrece's poetry in The Swerve ... and intersting about conflict in church history and the establishmnet of what we call bible ... the book on old -isms!
Now just as proof of the anon existance of God ... as a vast love that is near exhausted in this dimension ... can a mortal make something of nothing somewhere where they don't know any better? It leads one to believe that you can destroy a tho'T process ... fear appears to du wit ... odd thing ah ...eve infunny in the dark as you mull it arround like vast chewing it over ... rheum in 8-in ... much like Jaw'n over a larger issue of the divers ... sects? In a mortal desire they just can't get it together ... thus God, Love, Justice and humility are elsewhere, as compared to proud form ... À-Pole-in as a cede of thought ... puts one ouda-here ... APoll-Oz lighter side? One must know their myths if you are to understand the seed of mind ... that's dah word ... some use it to form anon-Amos-lyes .. caustic to reality ... gives rise to unbelievable tho'Tz ...
Consider Einsteins druids ... right out a nowhere's land and many still don't believe ... or understand what he spoke of ... enforced delucianal tendanceis?
Is God as a whole a place where we need to put something that is presently missing ... like frugal ascete?
airclean33
Posted on: 02/16/2012 14:10
Hi RevLKing---------Loved your opening , thought it to be right on.I was reading what you had said to Armiaius. You said something about AC. I was wondering where you talking about me? -- airclean33
airclean33
Posted on: 04/02/2012 08:14
Two posts
RevLGKing
Posted on: 02/18/2012 18:52
MATTER IS JUST FROZEN LIGHT
----------------------------------------------
Pay attention to the work of the late David Bohm--the great physicist who, in the 1980's I heard speak at the university of Toronto.
http://fusionanomaly.net/davidbohm.html
I write about his work here:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=426...
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/18/2012 19:58
The explicate chaos at one end meeting the implicate chaos at the other end creating pure chaos which is the underlying feature of hu'man-ism and A' Tome ism giving a bubble effect to the story as bier'd Eire ... and Irish expression after having one Tue mani ... Tha saL!
The Zero point order being halfway between emotions and intellect causing calm about what everthing is about that's near nothing or just like Love which's omi thing that people will make sum thing out of ...
QED, or Q'd as you can make it given what you've got to travail with ...
Arminius
Posted on: 02/19/2012 08:48
[quote=RevLGKing]
MATTER IS JUST FROZEN LIGHT
----------------------------------------------
Yes, I quite agree. It is so, from my own experience.
RevLGKing
Posted on: 03/31/2012 23:47
THERE ARE POSTIVE AND CREATIVE ATHEISTS
Lynne* -- a very positive and creative atheist. This is her lastesT post to me, just in:
http://forums.about.com/n/Pfx/forum.aspx/?tsn=74&nav=messages&webtag=ab-...
RevLGKing
Posted on: 04/02/2012 00:02
THE FOLLOWING IDEA CAME TO ME MARCH 21, 2012--
The Spring Vernal Equinox (12 hours of night, 12 hours of day. The Fall one will be on September 21)
Warren Farr, no doubt you are aware of the Tilde--the ( ~ ) the key on the upper left. The tilde (play /ˈtɪldə/, play /ˈtɪldi/; ˜ or ~ ) is a grapheme with several uses. The name of the character comes from Spanish, from the Latin titulus meaning "title" or "superscription", though the term "tilde" has evolved and now has a different meaning in linguistics. By the way, this idea to use the (~) instead of the (-) when I write G~0~D, came to me on March 21, 2012 past--the Spring equinox. The use of this acronym, G~0~D, makes it clear that, here, we are using a title, not a noun or a name. For example, the word Christ is a title, not a name.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/02/2012 07:59
A'm'n to that ...
Neo
Posted on: 04/02/2012 08:49
MATTER IS JUST FROZEN LIGHT
----------------------------------------------
Yes, I quite agree. It is so, from my own experience.
E=mc2 tells us so much about the nature of "things". Technically, of course, it says that Energy equals matter, times the speed of light squared. Which means that matter can, at any time, presumably, be 'melted' back into the energy, and visa-versa.
This is an amazing concept. It pre-supposes that there is nothing in this Universe but Energy. Everything came from energy and everything and will go back to energy.
To me, this concept means that there cannot be such a thing as the 'one and only Son of God'. How could there be when the same atoms that go into the make up of a serpent could also be found in the spine of human being?
Everything belongs to the Lord, everything is part and parcel of God.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/02/2012 08:53
Can one make something of nothing without the mirror opposite ... could be a reciprocal image ... reverse psyche ... emotions reflecting what's known? Nothing in the mortal case ...
Could something inside you get a grip on e' motive ...?
Neo
Posted on: 04/02/2012 23:29
THE FOLLOWING IDEA CAME TO ME MARCH 21, 2012--
The Spring Vernal Equinox (12 hours of night, 12 hours of day. The Fall one will be on September 21)
Warren Farr, no doubt you are aware of the Tilde--the ( ~ ) the key on the upper left. The tilde (play /ˈtɪldə/, play /ˈtɪldi/; ˜ or ~ ) is a grapheme with several uses. The name of the character comes from Spanish, from the Latin titulus meaning "title" or "superscription", though the term "tilde" has evolved and now has a different meaning in linguistics. By the way, this idea to use the (~) instead of the (-) when I write G~0~D, came to me on March 21, 2012 past--the Spring equinox. The use of this acronym, G~0~D, makes it clear that, here, we are using a title, not a noun or a name. For example, the word Christ is a title, not a name.
"The word Christ is a title, not a name" Yes, yes. I agree with this Rev LG. This is the Christ Consciousness that Paul wrote of when he referred to the mysteries as the "Christ in you, the hope of glory"
This Christ Awareness is a very real potential within all of us. All we have to do is ask with a sincere heart, speak with an honest mind, and become detached from all worldly possessions and isms. Only then can these "mysteries" reveal themselves from within.
Once we reach this elevated level of awareness we become a Buddha, another title meaning "a person who has attained full enlightenment".
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/03/2012 08:56
Comes in a flash ... disturbing to those that worship the dark side of God ... without any way of learning the subtle side ... no light of their own?
It is a trend cultured by many churches ... deny thought processes: "I'd be better if the common folk didn't know!"
Considerour government interference with truth of what they waste ... not to mention the lives of CEO's! Now is that double talk ... cheeky id'isms? We wouldn't wish to process ...
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 04/03/2012 11:21
our universe is just SO fascinating to G_d. what does G_d do when not in our universe? here's a secret glimpse :3
Arminius
Posted on: 04/03/2012 12:10
THE FOLLOWING IDEA CAME TO ME MARCH 21, 2012--
The Spring Vernal Equinox (12 hours of night, 12 hours of day. The Fall one will be on September 21)
Hi Linds:
The Spring Equinox seems to be an auspicious day for revelations.
On the eve of the Spring Equinox of 1984 I prayed for a revelation of God. During the following night I had a vision of an unfolding bubble universe. To call it a "vision" is a misnomer; I actually was the unfolding universe. The vision was immense, of truly astronomical proportions. The human eye alone could not have seen it; the human mind alone could not have perceived it. As I said, during this sacred night I was the unfolding universe and I perceived the unfolding universe as God.
Not only did I perceive the unfolding universe as God, I perceived it as a singularity, a superunified whole in an inseparable state of synthesis. I still feel that way, and I feel my individual self to be an inseparable part of that unified whole. On the emotional level, the vision was accompanied by ecstasy and an overwhelming feeling universal and unitive love. I still feel those as well.
Ever since I have been talking about the superunified and self-creative universe as God. Alas, my version of God has few takers. The conventionally religious resent it because it goes against their notions of "God;" atheists, anti-theists, non-theists and agnostics resent it for the same reason.
The argument, however, that there is no evidence for this God is not valid. The universe obviously exists. And that there is a transcendental power, principle or force at work in the universe, as an integral part of the universe, will soon be proven by science.
I and the father are one.
-Jesus the Christ
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/03/2012 17:48
Arm,
The conceptual mind of this is in chaos ... G~D can't believe hym's elf as the song ... IT's a ohm'r!
Few will believe the communion ... a mire myth?
WB
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 04/03/2012 19:02
in fact, the last time WB's belief was as it is right now was around 8700 BCE
for a description of this, watch this helpful vid
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/03/2012 20:11
Earth has climactic cycles?
Is this an oblique précis ION?
HG wouldn't like that as obtuse complexity ... according to top Eire Oz Ka' ...
The tilde ~of the mire th when it's qole (s' noe Job) is that 8700 y'm cycle ... a real Job! One turd of 26K?
Off center? is that like wandering of the line as religious polity, extemism?
Hoo dah th'ought ...
The human mined is curio city ... really jacke dupe ...
RevLGKing
Posted on: 04/06/2012 18:19
THIS JUST IN FROM SCIENCEAGOGO.COM
WHAT AN ENJOYABLE DIALOGUE IS HAPPENING HERE
Bill S., let me address all readers, especially newcomers, students, octogenarians like me--you name it--for a moment:
Hey, anyone: Feel free to click on the link to the Not-Quite-Science section of the Forum
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=2&pa...
and you will find that the number of hits on this thread is now over 4,800,000 hits. Moderators, is this some kind of a record?
How come more and more of you are not at least dropping in just to say, hello? And, surely you must have a question, or two!
What's the matter? Do fear that one of us--or all of us--old fogies--are there any young fogies?--will clobber you with an ad hominem or two?
Have no fear! at least not from us. "Experts" though we may be--we hope--in our own fields, we are "humble" enough to give anyone the right to be wrong. Right Bill S?
But seriously, don't miss out. Practicing the art of having a good dialogue can be a very joy-filled experience. At least tell us why you keep reading in the SAGGO
Posted on: 04/06/2012 16:04
THIS JUST IN FROM SCIENCEAGOGO.COM
WHAT AN ENJOYABLE DIALOGUE IS HAPPENING HERE
Bill S., let me address all readers, especially newcomers, students, octogenarians like me--you name it--for a moment:
Hey, anyone: Feel free to click on the link to the Not-Quite-Science section of the Forum
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum
Bill, I have an idea: Maybe we would get some "particip-action" if we threatened to go on strike for higher pay, eh?
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/06/2012 20:36
It is a superb dialogue proving that the other side (those that do not believe in a god of love, humility, justice,etc) will always be against this side or whatever ... east against the west?
The battle goes on and stirs the waters (wadis) above ... shamayim? Then who'd wish to know those foreign words? Nothing this side of the infinite is more hated than a long serioes of words that prevent authorities from getting in a last word ... and thus the story goes on.
Imagine the story being equivalent to the mind/soul/psyche complex! What mortal could get over that hump? Sissy FUZZ ...
It's an 'airy argument like the connection of rabid creatures to oestrus ... and hair is a very important element in the weaving of tales ... like Çam (code word for devilish things, in alien tongues)! Jack'dupe metaphors ... rising above the dirt/mire as signs?
Neo
Posted on: 04/06/2012 20:52
Is everyone always so polite and respectful on that site? And, from what I read, they seem to know how put a paragraph together with proper spelling. Amazing.
Liked your story about the computer Linds, thanks.
RevLGKing
Posted on: 04/07/2012 21:44
Neo
Is everyone always so polite
Posted on: 04/06/2012 19:52
Is everyone always so polite and respectful on that site?
========================
Neo: The moderators are excellent.
Because the site, out of Western Australia, is run as an on-line business, and is supported by non-intrusive advertising, the moderators make it clear: Writers who have nothing to say and who know how to say it in an off-topic, boring, disrespectful and abusive manner will have their drivel, "moved to a galaxy far, far away."
It seems to work, very well
RevLGKing
Posted on: 04/08/2012 00:21
Inanna Whimsey:
ABOUT A VERY DELICATE SUBJECT: HEROISM, SUPERMAN, BATMAN THE JUSTICE LEAGUE, ET AL
Heroes created by the imagination may make for great entertainment, but
can we depend on them to come and save us?
http://www.readersdigest.ca/magazine/what-is-hero
And let us not forget the numerous un-sung heroes.
Decades ago, in thinking about the meaning of salvation--which, for me means total physical, mental and spiritual health--the following thoughts came to me about human nature, including my own:
Sure I have the desire to be of service to my family, my church, my community and to the public good, but I have no conscious desire, to be a martyr or a hero. However, as I recall, more than once over the decades I have been called on to help save a life, or two, including my own.
Perhaps this is why most of us like to have a hero-like god--a god who redeems and saves us, or a god-appointed and god-like leader who is ready, prepared and willing to be our Superman, our Captain Marvel or any other member of the Justice League available to take on the job of recreating the Garden of Eden, Avalon, Camelot, or any of the many utopias about which we human beings dream.
For the same reason we also want a "Jesus Christ, Superstar", who will come again and finish the job he started 2000 years ago, a Mohammed to lead us against the infidel and evildoers, a god-anointed emperor, a king, a mikado, a president, prime minister, whatever--any kind of a saviour who is ready and willing to meet our expectations and take up the task of saving us from our sins and from the pain, suffering and death they always bring in their wake.
Am I being fair? Or unfair? Now, over to you. Where, if there is such a thing, do you feel the secret of salvation is to be found?
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/08/2012 05:14
Is that a tongue in both cheeks sort of comment?
Neo
Posted on: 04/08/2012 11:02
RevLGKing, regarding your question 'where is the secret of salvation to be found?' The following quotes are from the Maitreya Buddha teachings.
-
"Freedom operates on the individual level, liberty operates on the national level, and salvation operates on the spiritual level. All three principles evolve simultaneously ... What is freedom? To be able to move about at will. What is salvation? To be able to move about in mind, spirit and body at will. This is not a select gift only for gurus and saints. It is the destiny of one and all."
RevLGKing
Posted on: 04/08/2012 22:04
All three principles evolve simultaneously ... What is freedom? To be able to move about at will.
What is salvation? To be able to move about in mind, spirit and body at will. This is not a select gift only for gurus and saints. It is the destiny of one and all."
Arminius
Posted on: 04/09/2012 01:02
All three principles evolve simultaneously ... What is freedom? To be able to move about at will.
What is salvation? To be able to move about in mind, spirit and body at will. This is not a select gift only for gurus and saints. It is the destiny of one and all."
Yes, Neo and Linds, couldn't agree more.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/09/2012 08:14
NEO,
"Freedom operates on the individual level, liberty operates on the national level, and salvation operates on the spiritual level. All three principles evolve simultaneously ... What is freedom? To be able to move about at will. What is salvation? To be able to move about in mind, spirit and body at will. This is not a select gift only for gurus and saints. It is the destiny of one and all."
Consider this an enigma ... how do we put these three aspects together? 4th coming answers ... dervish of a thing ... like a Gael in the isn't ness ... missing lynx of the mind?
Thus the purpose of life with great sensitivity to pain. But perhaps these nuts need a tumble to remove the hard skin ... and the temptation of a stumbling bloc? It was said in theat often misunderstood book of much corrupted nature .... mortals done be screwing aroound with it ...
There's much more to it ...
WB
Neo
Posted on: 04/09/2012 11:09
Here are some more quotes, from the same source, re salvation, (and I'm sorry for the long cut & pastes, but this book is not published on the internet and so I can't make reference to these quotes):
-
***
Salvation is not in religion, not in politics, not in philosophies or ideologies. It exists in practising the art of living.
-
All religions are at fault for the suffering in the world. "Instead of teaching salvation, religions are creating pockets of imprisonment. You are to teach the individual that to Self realize is his destiny — the ultimate freedom and the ultimate salvation. The moment you personify teachings, you create demi gods and dogmas which imprison.” Further, “If you personify the teaching, embodying it, you are creating something different”.
-
We are evolving in cycles of time, experiencing birth and death. Salvation is in the Supreme Being where there is no movement, only continuous awareness. This is the spiritual journey of one and all: to learn the art of Self-awareness.
-
Jesus as a person, as an individual entity, experienced the sustenance, the support, of the Almighty. People everywhere are beginning to experience this now. What will the signs be? People will be able to explain in simple sentences what Jesus experienced in Christ. When you experience the One who sustains you, who is the source of all creation, you know that without Him nothing takes place. At such a time, the Self is oblivious to everything that is happening around it. This is why Jesus said: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” When you are honest, sincere, detached, you can reach this stage. The teaching of Maitreya inspires you to look within. This is not religion. This is not politics. This is not ideology. Karma itself is Dharma. Without karma there is no salvation.
-
Once the Self looks for that freedom, then the journey towards salvation begins. When Jesus reached the point of Supreme Being on the cross, he asked: “Father, why have you left me?” His Father told him: “Look around you; everything that is happening is not freedom or salvation. These you can only find with Me.”
-
A Master cannot master the universe of energy (Shiva). If you use the word Master to mean teacher, then know that the teacher’s task is to teach you to be free of attachment to mind, spirit and body. That is your destiny. That is salvation.
-
***
Arminius
Posted on: 04/09/2012 11:11
Yes, that is salvation.
Neo
Posted on: 04/09/2012 15:49
"Karma is Dharma" is an interesting phrase. From what I understands it means that human activity is itself the path of duty. Which is therefore the Path of Salvation.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 04/10/2012 18:19
Inanna Whimsey:
ABOUT A VERY DELICATE SUBJECT: HEROISM, SUPERMAN, BATMAN THE JUSTICE LEAGUE, ET AL
Heroes created by the imagination may make for great entertainment, but
can we depend on them to come and save us?
http://www.readersdigest.ca/magazine/what-is-hero
And let us not forget the numerous un-sung heroes.
Decades ago, in thinking about the meaning of salvation--which, for me means total physical, mental and spiritual health--the following thoughts came to me about human nature, including my own:
Sure I have the desire to be of service to my family, my church, my community and to the public good, but I have no conscious desire, to be a martyr or a hero. However, as I recall, more than once over the decades I have been called on to help save a life, or two, including my own.
Perhaps this is why most of us like to have a hero-like god--a god who redeems and saves us, or a god-appointed and god-like leader who is ready, prepared and willing to be our Superman, our Captain Marvel or any other member of the Justice League available to take on the job of recreating the Garden of Eden, Avalon, Camelot, or any of the many utopias about which we human beings dream.
For the same reason we also want a "Jesus Christ, Superstar", who will come again and finish the job he started 2000 years ago, a Mohammed to lead us against the infidel and evildoers, a god-anointed emperor, a king, a mikado, a president, prime minister, whatever--any kind of a saviour who is ready and willing to meet our expectations and take up the task of saving us from our sins and from the pain, suffering and death they always bring in their wake.
Am I being fair? Or unfair? Now, over to you. Where, if there is such a thing, do you feel the secret of salvation is to be found?
you're welcome and thank you and you're welcome in an endless self-iterating golden braid
that first video with Captain Marvel (where the name of Marvel Comics comes from -- he was Marvel Comics answer to Superman) was just me brain having a fun moment taking the idea of such an alien and horrific concept as an omniscient, omnipotent creator agent and thinking of perhaps Sie is just a member of a whole race of beings who go aboot creating universes, experiments, and then visiting them. So Capt'n Marvel as a visiting Deity.
as for saviours, i'm more of the 'finger pointing at the moon' type o person
as for salvation*, i don't think there is any. the idea of stress being bad i agree with those who say that it is a misapprehension of the one person who was doing those particular studies on stress at that time...no stress is actually fatal
my way is to try to change and grok myself and from there the world changes
"G_d" being "ok, we as humanity recognize these certain concepts as True because they are axiomatically true and that we all, no matter what our religion or worldview, follow and practice them..."
globally, we are currently trying to figure out just what that 'G_d' is. Something like the universal declaration of human rights. which means that, i think, globally we will abandon the notion that all cultures are equal, that some are quite barbaric, and which will involve a necessary international way of enforcing the rule of law.
* the idea of salvation strikes me as just another instance of 'i am going to intentionally ignore my role in reality and stop thinking because true freedom and true responsibility is scary...'
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/10/2012 20:35
Go dis a cool superhuman imagination ... that could get us out of all this chi-ite we've created for ourselves ...
Like a stiff Isis thing that needs surrounding heat to melt the po' sol deire ... and thus heh was burried like a passover of talent!
One needs to know a great deal of word to interpret adequately ... bin there ... dunne that! Browning Movement ...
RevLGKing
Posted on: 04/17/2012 14:54
About G~0~D, Faith and Salvation:
Anyone, just take a look at the following. I will comment on it, later, OK?
=============================
KNOWLEDGE, WHILE IT CAN USE GOOD FAITH AS A TOOL, IT NATURALLY GOES BEYOND BELIEF
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Like, the great psychiatrist, Carl Jung, I feel that a belief-dependent god is no god at all. In a famous BBC interview, when he was asked: Do you believe in God, he put it this way: I do not need to believe in G~0~D ... I know G~0~D is!
PANENTHEISM/UNITHEISM—beyond monotheism
—————————————————————————————————-
To make it clear that, while I respect the kind of monotheism in which I was raised, I am not talking about a god who exists separate and apart from existence, or nature. To make this point, I am thankful that I am free to use devices, or symbols, like the following: G~0~D, or G~∅~D~~points to a oneness in, around and through nature, but is not dependent on it.
I concocted these acronyms some time ago for a very special reason. I wanted to get away from using a noun to name an object-like god—one that exists, even supernaturally, in time and space, yet separate from it. I credit moral, ethical and creative atheism with stimulating this kind of thinking. Meanwhile, like Richard Dawkins, I am quite open to having radical theists demonstrate that there is a god who exists—one who I hope will then have his own web pages and be willing to link to this and other forums.
I admit that the above is not a new idea. For example, when pious Jews write about the god-hypothesis, in English, they use the device, G-d. I respect their freedom to do so. They use it instead of the sacred four letters YHWH—meaning I am who I am. The dash makes the point that they are not talking about an anthropomorphic, or human-like, god in the form of an idol. Idolatry, even when mentally done, is looked upon by pious Jews as a sin—any evil done deliberately, and with conscious awareness—against truth.
For me, the wavy dash, the tilde (~), the ∅ , the null, and 0, zero, all serve useful purposes in their own way.
In http://www.scienceagogo.com I write about all this—the philosophy, psychology & pneumatology of all religions I know and respect, including atheism (a philosophy?). One thread on this general theme now has over 3,900,000 hits.
Atheists say that atheism is neither a faith, nor a religion. OK!
What then is it ? A philosophy? Perhaps it is one with psychological and pneumatological implications? Let me know. I am very curious about such things. I enjoy have a dialogue about such topics—hopefully without using flame throwers, mockery, ridicule, or any other such, joy and communication killers.
======================
To find the source of the symbol, Ø in G~Ø~D, check out WIKI: Empty set, from Wikipedia.
For similar symbols, see Ø (disambiguation).
The empty set is the set containing no elements.
This is why, in my opinion, I say that G~Ø~D, for me, has no elements, properties, or dimensions per se—in the material sense of the words. A god, or God with properties is simply an idol. It could have value as a work of art.
I think of G~Ø~D as like a wave-force in and through and around people and things; but not as a thing, dependent on things. The things of creation, which we often experience as mysterious emanations, or effusions, out of the great no-thing, G~Ø~D~~that which generates all good, organizes all opportunities in an orderly fashion and delivers that which is desirable and delightful. If anyone wants to say: I can live like that without any kind of god-talk. I will respond: Great, go ahead and do it. The bottom like, for me is: I am, and I choose to think, learn and know, and I accept the power—physically, mentally and spiritually—to DO!
In mathematics, and more specifically in the set theory, the empty set is the unique set having no elements; its size or cardinality (count of elements in a set) is zero. Some axiomatic set theories assure that the empty set exists by including an axiom of empty set; in other theories, its existence can be deduced. Many possible properties of sets are trivially true for the empty set.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/17/2012 17:41
The Zero sum game ... amounts the creating something out of nothing ... like war over a belief in something that's not there ! Missing lynx ... the connection being non-physical ... in essence a spirit?
Arminius
Posted on: 04/19/2012 04:26
I am not a mathematician, but I know that, in mathematics, the thesis necessitates the antithesis, that the sum of the two always results in zero, that zero contains a limitless number of positive and negative numbers and mathematical combinations, and that infinity is contained in zero.
The universe, in its actual is-ness—as a synthesis—is zero. But the transcendental power enabled the cosmic zero to fragment itself into limitless thesis-antithesis pairs while remaining zero.
The zero state is the cosmic synthesis, the fragmented state the cosmic analysis. The zero state is the absolute and primary Truth, the fragmented state a relative and temporary truth. The analyses of the fragmented state are true, but only from the viewpoint of the observer, which is arbitrarily chosen by the observer. Thus, the fragmented reality has a limitless number of viewpoints and truths, every one of them relative to the viewpoint of the observer and arbitrarily chosen by the observer, whereas the zero state has only one absolute Truth.
When we humans experience this absolute Truth, then it is an experience of unitive ecstasy and unitive love. Hence, "God is love." This is so, from my experience, but, in my experience, God, as the totality of being, also contains all analyses.
Some of our human analyses, however, are qualitatively better than others. Those analyses that most closely reflect the cosmic synthesis are best.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/19/2012 07:59
Thus the integral G~D is nothing ... and the mortal will make something of ID ...
QED which approximates phi in an eddy* (Ed'm stir) projecting into the Cos Moes ...
*In Process Engineering eddy is a Wahl effect, of great significance if ignored ... but what theologian would like to know that when early rule on the tree of logic is transposed by Roman beliefs that thinking people are the devil!
Such is a dynamic faith that should move on like gleam in the eye at seeing through something improperly understood in an emotional state ...
Is this chaotic reasoning ... I hope so ... so people don't have to understand Exodus 20:19 ... and all-that-is forgotten ... that's nothing in a thoughtful state of imagination that is out of here in a complex state ...
Then there are the cursed .... those that know wee unacknowledged bits of the DOS ... a flat CosMoes Theorem with anti matter as antithesis! Such can only be di deuced by subtle means ... that's us the alien medium ... eans to an end?
Ess moor! Ain't that suite ... matching paris ... with oenoen .. a metaphorical checkmate that is expressed in tears as Jaqobean latter form of emotions ... mental fallout? Dantean objective to get the frothy medium moving .. dynamically in Circe?
The caldron will boil all by itself ---Shakespeare! But you couldn't say that in 1600 as it would indicate something that King J'Aimes didn't ... attest to ... wisdom! He screwed even the wee buoys as a role model to modern attitudes towards love children ... keep eM stoop ID ... an unconscious act! Then some do not believe in the hairy side of the unknown soul ... scares the daylight out of many until stepping over the dividing line ... metaphorically the militant power falling from the hoers ... that's a Roman Jew ... or Paul as a condensation of s'ul ... a mystical covenant? Keeps the unknown safe from the emotional ... except for the falws in the system ... like holes in the darkness as'tar ... the Shadow again?
Neo
Posted on: 04/19/2012 08:47
I am not a mathematician, but I know that, in mathematics, the thesis necessitates the antithesis, that the sum of the two always results in zero...
How does the sum of the two always result in zero?
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/19/2012 09:55
The sum of two extremes is always zero ... as there is no end to either argument!
It is like positive and negative infinites: emotions and intellect ... the eternal battle of the wits and the non-wit ... an indeterminate for we don't know the position of the observer (Heiseinburg?).
Arminius
Posted on: 04/19/2012 19:29
Well, WB, in the zero universe there is no observer or observed. Or, if there is, all is observer and all is observed. The tip of the godly index finger manages to put its own tip on its own tip, the godly eye can see itself, and what it sees is very very good (compared to being endlessly boring eternal energy :-)
Arminius
Posted on: 04/19/2012 19:39
I am not a mathematician, but I know that, in mathematics, the thesis necessitates the antithesis, that the sum of the two always results in zero...
Hi Neo:
In algebra, we turn an equation around to prove it truthful. And when it comes out the same when turned around, except opposite and in reverse, then it is true. And when we add the two together, the sum is always zero, which is further proof for the truthfulness of the equation.
This is not only the Principle of Proof in algbera but also in double entry bookkeeping. And, to me, it seems to be a or the basic cosmic principle.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 04/20/2012 09:16
Arm,
Why has the mortal such difficulty in seeing all this?
The solution is dark humours ... just out a here ... cause mortals wouldn't doubt that the mortal state was confined ... in the "light of the situation"---Sufi scholar!
Is there something humbling in that fallout .. of light that is ... in a dark surrounding ...
RevLGKing
Posted on: 07/25/2012 16:11
Recently, I posted this topic at www.centerforinquiry.net :
WILLPOWER—the latest research claims it is a REAL power. I inquire: Is it? And what is the evidence?
==================================================================
Because I prefer to wear out rather than just rust out, when I retired from the pastoral ministry in 1994—the same year my wife, close in age to me, retired from teaching—I chose to think of myself as a self-directed and now a re-directed—not just a retired—servant of evidence-based truth and of the public good.
My career started when I was ordained a minister of the United Church of Canada, in 1953. My wife, Jean, and I became the first minister/teacher team at what was then a squatter’s town, with the nick name “Happy Valley”—115 families squatted, on Crown land, near the Goose Bay airbase—where many of them got employment—in Labrador, NL. The only school and Nursing Station there—staffed by two great nurses—were church-provided, and not just for church members. My wife had 52 children, grades one and two, in her class.
Readers, as I understand it, each of us is FREE to establish and live by what we truly value. We happen to love PHILOSOPHY—the mother of science and art. So far this has led us to build on a holistic foundation and to approach life seeking the good and positive integration of body, mind and spirit—what I like to call the soma, psyche and pneuma. None of this is laid on as dogma.
=========================
With a nod of respect to Rene Descartes, who coined the phrase:
“I think, therefore, I am.” may I put it this way:
======================
I AM, THEREFORE, I THINK, WILL, LEARN AND DO—in short, I LIVE
======================================================
I AM, therefore I think, will, learn and do. Creative, playful and constructive thinking, under the guidance of agape-love, will probably lead us to knowledge, understanding and the supreme value of wisdom—the good use of knowledge (science); the kind that gives us the power to choose to be, or not to be.
It leads me, with the help of others, to take action and do the things we need to do, within the space/time and to be at one with all that is.
Willpower, Wisdom and Action can lead to our being truly free beings. But the risk and danger is that I am free to choose good or evil.
G~0~D/G~O~D—not to be confused with a “god” or “God”
==============================================
By choice, I choose to call this power G~0~D, where ~0~ symbolises the microcosm within us. If anyone prefers to call it Life, Awareness, Consciousness or any another term, go ahead.
At this point, I think of us and the natural, measurable cosmos, or the universe as that which is within G~O~D, where ~O~ symbolises the macrocosm. Again I say: You are free to use any term, or no term—whatever pleases you.
CHAT WITH AN ASTROPHYSICIST
Years ago, I did a wedding for an astrophysicist, who worked with NASA, and his bride to-be, from Toronto. When, in the pre-nuptial counselling I chatted with him about my interest in philosophy and pneumatology—the mother of psychology—and what is going on in our “inner space”. Then I asked him what physicists called outer space and the space between and within atoms. He answered: “The vacuum”.
To anyone who knows physics, I inquire: Is that term still a valid one?
Interestingly, he made no objection when I said and asked: Do mind if I call it “pneuma” (the Greek for Spirit—related to air, wind, breath of life)? Then I also said: Because I feel that the pneuma/psyche is the source of what we call “willpower”, I assume that exploring it will help us be more effective in our exploration of inner and outer space. Again, he had no objection. Encouraged by this, I continued my study of the integration pneuma/psyche/soma.
THE INNER AND OUTER SPACES OF SINGLE AND MARRIED LIFE
Of course, then we went on to have a very interesting, and helpful, back-and-forth dialogue about marriage and LOVE—more on this and the three kinds of love—eros (erotic), philia (friendship) and pneuma (good-will, agape-kind)—later.
We talked about the differences between living as singles (individual egos), as couples and as families, including communities. We also talked especially about how, living with the inner and outer spaces of life, singles can WILLingly take on the very risky business of becoming ONE in the relationship we call marriage—”... for better or for worse, ‘till death do us part.”
Over the years, I must have done nearly a 1000 weddings. I often wonder: How many actually actually went on to live “happily ever after”. I especially wonder about the ones that were .... well, different. To do one of the weddings I actually had to break into the church, and the office, of another minister, who had absent-mindedly forgot to show up. Amazingly, I actually found the license on his desk. Quite a story, which I will not detail, here.
However, There was a happy ending, and all present, I trust, learned, from the brief message I gave, the art of agape-love. I was even successful in getting smiles and a laugh or two. Thus they all forgave the absent-minded minister. And, to my knowledge, the couple went on to have a happy marriage.
DETAILS ABOUT WILLPOWER—agape-power
Then last Christmas, 2011, from my grandchildren I received the wonderful gift of a book. I hinted that I had heard it reviewed, on our CBC, a few weeks before:
WILLPOWER: Rediscovering the Greatest Human Strength By social psychologist, Roy F. Baumeister and John Tierney—science writer with the New York Times…The book is about the ego control, ego depletion, and other things. It surveys the ways how people fail at self control, and the tricks to have better self control so as to have the power to choose that which is Good, Opportune and Desirable for us.
For details, check out the following link:
http://www.ideafit.com/library/how-to-strengthen-willpower-part-1
==========00000==========
BTW, I recently finished writing a rhyme about WP:
I think of myself as free to be, or not to be, a G~0~D~like being—to do all that is Good, Opportune & Desirable, & use my willpower wisely, or NOT Check profile & http://www.lindsayking.ca for bio.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 07/26/2012 07:06
That's a great one LGK,
Sort of like abs.tract a grand word to research in the darkness of all we don't know as driven by the mother o' vite aL functions ... coy like a wile persona ...
It is a black gemstone ... Shadow of another kind of wealth ... and it is said the Shadow knows ... metaphorical explicit Ness? Chi's a dark po'elle ... sort of ethereal, or aether of quantum dimension ... you never know what 'll come out of de noos ...
Yet I hear the ecco of some other ministry people telling me philosophy is evil, as is knowledge and wisdom ... the word of brutes presented for what reason? Yah goata wonder ... just ouda-here response?
The phtha Eyres went astray with their teaching command ... just for the paean of-ite? The Joey of learning ... one shouldn't make it too az ai ... make eM ponder!
Poguru
Posted on: 07/26/2012 16:53
Hi Rev,
You wrote: "KNOWLEDGE, WHILE IT CAN USE GOOD FAITH AS A TOOL, IT NATURALLY GOES BEYOND BELIEF "
You appear to understand well the difference between belief and knowledge. Belief is not knowing. When knowledge arises belief disappears. In fact, belief can only be present when knowledge is absent.
For some is it given to KNOW, for others they have to get by with belief.
Now there is nothing wrong with belief and faith . They help you get through those times when you don't know for sure. In that respect, belief and faith are tools to help you get through those times when you don't KNOW for sure. But when you do finally KNOW then belief is no longer required. It is has been superceded by knowledge.
Ask yourself this - would you rather know G-d exists or just believe it?
Your buddy on the path - Poguru