I was at the Kairos Gathering this past week, volunteering.  I was able to hear the words of many amazing folks, some whose lives are at risk in their countries for what they do.

Ched Myers blew me away...and I am continuing to read  / listen to him on you-tube and expect to share more of that message over the next while..as he reacquainted me with that historical radical Jesus which had been taken away through feminist theology on one hand, and Christian right wing fundamentalism on the other hand.

This thread, though, came to mind.

I think of folks like Alex, SLJudds, who clearly have caught the message.

so, the question is, what do you think?

I know for me it was a challenging week on multiple fronts...both invigorating, and exhausting...

How do we spend our time? In our space, where our butts are?

My butt is lazy..and I know I face some choices....just curious what others think...

I love the quote, and I agree with the sentiment. However, I think that we (the "royal we" here, lumping liberals/inclusives as a group) need to agree to abandon "belly of the worm" language. Sometimes it's mild - as in "I'm lazy" - sometimes we engage in more detailed self-flagellation. Either way, its a guilt hangover of our salvationist days that we need to leave behind.

We need to celebrate what we do accomplish - an approach which, hopefully, leads us to want ever more challenging, and hence rewarding, accomplishments.

There are those who complain about this idea - they say that we shouldn't do things "for the reward" - and yet, the salvationist camp is motivated by the greatest reward of all isn't it? - they believe their actions (an outgrowth they say of their "salvation") will result in a ticket to heaven.

Okay, with that out of my system I do agree with the sentiment, and I love the title of the thread. Not everyone has the courage to face physical hardship though. I remember suggesting that, instead of making monetary donations, that a group of people each buy a blanket and go, as a group, to an inner city location, or a soup kitchen, or whatever, give the blanket to an indivual, and spend thirty minutes just talking to the person.

This was a pretty low risk enterprise. It was also totally beyond the fear level of a lot of people.

I have come to realize that it would be incorrect to say that those people "failed", or even that they were lazy. They did, however, need something a little less challenging to cut their teeth on. I think that one of the things that we're not very good at is helping people engage in progressively more challenging ways.

Good points GR.

One of the other speakers this week-end, Denise Couture spoke about our individual "maisons"  .  Each person has their own challenges based on their own "house". 

In part, she spoke of the three different ways to enact change: from within, from without and disruption from within

 I know many good folks who make changes from within, and they add up, but, how much more change is possible?

My sense is somehow there is a way to connect the dots between those who are fully engaged, and those who are fully supportive on-deck with resources at disposal.

One of the ways, that all of the speakers mentioned, was the desire for more exposure tours, for more people to come to their lands and learn, do justice through learning.

Maybe that is the way with local as well.  It isn't so much to go & make food for someoone else, as it is to go & sit and have dinner with someone else, to break bread at a shelter, to play cards at a seniors centre, to sit with folks on a friday night at a public AA meeting. 

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Denise Couture is a professor at the Université de Montréal and a member of the direction team of the Centre de théologie et d’éthique contextuelles québécoises. Ethics, interreligious dialogue, and feminist and contextual theologies are the focus of many of her writings.

Have you read any of Ched Meyers books?  If so would you recommend any of them?  I'm thinking of a young person in my congregation who may be very interested in what he has to say.

I haven't, but I have heard that they are good.

The one, Sabbath Economics, I was told is a very readable, wonderful little book by someone that I respect.

Why don't you mail them this link, see what they think:  

as well as the one posted up earlier.

I do like the title of this thread.  It caught my intention.  I can go along with GR on this one.  In our island community our Christian community is out on a daily basis trying to make change.

Could more be done both locally, nationally and internationally?  Absolutely.  However, like the parable of the mustard seed individuals start out "small" and try to encourage others to stand up and be counted as well. 

As D. Tutu has said, "Without us God won't and without God we can't"  Kairos is a good way to start.  We do lead by example.

Shalom

Mate

Do you think it is easier to do gradual incremental changes as an  individuals, or are there watershed moments, when individuals make significant changes in ones life?

Which is most likely to stick?  Which has longterm impact?

Also, is it easier for little steps to occur if there are people who have taken major steps and are open about them?  I'm curious, what people hae found in other churches?

I recollect the wonderful witnesses we have had in our congregation, and how they set a model in a positive way.

Pinga

Difficult questions.  In our church we discuss our goals for the year.  Individuals come up with ideas and soon there is a group in towe.  It doesn't take long.  Though I do have to admit that our Christian community here on the island is unique.  I've been in several churches and have never before encountered one that behaves so like Jesus;  justice and compassion.  I should add that spontaneous decisions come up on ocassion as a result of emergencies etc.

There are those watershed moments as well.  It also helps to have a congregation full of leaders:  economist, U. professors, principals, bankers, doctors, lawyers and most of the people care.  They want to make changes in the world but of course it has to start small and grow.  It also helps that most are retired.

I think each project is a combination of both little steps and giant steps. 

Shalom

Mate

Exactly!  By building/broadening our relationships, our "community", we build and broaden our desire to enact change, both within ourselves, and in the wider world. Both of your points above are ways to do that. Making food, (not that it's not important) in most settings I've seen, lets us keep a wall or a counter, or even just the fact that we never stop moving, between ourselves and the "other."

heh, i like that idea of the wall or counter between us.

My sense is that it is sometimes nice to think that we are different somehow, ie we could never end up homeless, or addicted, or mentally ill or physically disabled, or any of the other items that differentiate us from "other"

when we sit down and visit and realize how much alike we are.......if not for the addiction, the accident, the job loss, the mother that drank, the dad that beat us, the life that sucked......it could be us sitting across the table....

so thanks for the image of the counter..i like that.

wow, mate, sounds like a great church.

tell us more about how you get the ideas and how they are enacted? teams?

 I love the quote, and I agree with the sentiment. However, I think that we (the "royal we" here, lumping liberals/inclusives as a group) need to agree to abandon "belly of the worm" language. 

Posted by GoldenRule

GoldenRule I have major concern for your initial response.  I offer my concern bluntly, but also respectfully.

Just changing words does not fix problems, it does not create solutions, it does not offer an invitation for resolution.  Using the term "inclusive" because one uses "inclusive language" doesn't mean that a person has any gift at inviting or welcoming, or being in solidarity with anything or anyone.

What crosses your mind as I offer my own rant about my discomfort with what passes for "liberalism" and "inclusivism" in the Church today.

Hi Kilnerad....can you tell me more about your concerns?  I'm not following the conection,but I may just be tired from work.

Pinga

We are not a large community.  Over the past few years we've grown from about 10 to 50 families.  We have several committees and we try to look at the needs of our island home and its people.  We brainstorm and then pick one or more that we think we can work on and just get on with it.  Obviously we have lots of leadership abilities in our congregation.

Shalom

Mate

you know, i think that is a great idea....the team working together, recognizing each others gifts on one project...how cool is that!

Here's an example, of the change from within method.

At my workplace, we have a monthly meeting with all global IT employees invited.  They accept anonymous questions and answer them as part of the meeting. Most are serious, some in your face.  Our head office has a number of meeting rooms in the IT area named after football players.  Due to the recent behaviour of that football player, (switching teams), he is no longer seen as a hero. Someone asked in the anonymous questions that they rename that meeting room.  There was much laughter about the topic.

While it was being discussed, a friend ping'd me, and said:  They should rename meeting room ________.  Every time I enter it, I feel sick. My friend is closeted in work as to not be closeted puts him at risk. 

 I google'd the person it is named after.  He is an extremely homophobic man who has been a voice for the extreme right. 

Now, in the US, this person who google'd me has no protection to discrimination based on sexual identity. 

So....I wrote an email to the Senior VP as follows:

Consider what it takes for those who self-identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or questioning to walk into the Reggie White meeting room.

Reggie White spoke out openly in an extremely homophobic manner.  He lost  contracts due to the amount of hate he expressed.

If you are going to reconsider naming rooms, please think of those in your workforce who have no protection, no family benefits in our corporation.

Do what is right, and change the name of this room.  Take advantage of the request for renaming brought up, and just change names to more inclusive global names.
You don't have to politicize it, but you can bring about a more fair and just work place by doing so.

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For my friends from this site in the US or other countries which do not give positive support, please during pride week, if no other time, reach out and address injustices in your workplace.