Hi Marnie: Thanks for posting this!

I believe God, or Kosmos (which I spell with a "K" to denote the spiritual and the material cosmos as one) to be a self-generative singularity in a state of synthesis.

Because synthesis is antithetical to analysis, God is unknowable or undefinable in analytical terms and concepts. Although God is ultimate reality, what we think about IT are analytical terms and concepts, which are not God. God is the Kosmic whole, in a state of synthesis, which, in ITS actual is-ness or such-ness, can only be experienced. We can and do experience IT in the pure, unconceptualized experience, as in meditation, or meditative states or trance states, or similar states of consciousness, or intuitively.

In these states we experience our at-one-ment with the synthetical Kosmos, or God, and perceive intuitively what God wants us to do. Or, to put it more succinctly, we let God act directly through us. We become disciples, servants or tools of God; we submit our will to the will of God. This is beautifully expressed in Islam: "Islam" means "submission to God," and one who submits to God is a "Muslim."

This submission, however, is not a submission to some body of teachings, or some doctrine or dogma, but, as I pointed out, an experience of Kosmic at-one-ment, and acting directly from that experience.

What I said in the foregoing paragraphs comes directly from my experience of at-one-ment with God, but my words are necessarily biased by my personal, conceptual framework, my personal opinion, and my personal and cultural bias. In order to act directly from or for God, you must experience God yourself, and then act from that experience. I urge you to seek your own at-one-ment with God and take it from there.

It took me two-and-a-half years of earnest seeking, meditation, and turning inward in quiet contemplation to get there. And it has been nearly 25 years that I got there—and am there, on and off—and my thoughts about God (or "Kosmos" if you don't like the word "God" :-) are still evolving and maturing, even though I frequently immerse myself in that Unitive state of mind.

It takes unwavering intent and lots of practice, but if one perists, one eventually gets there. All we really need to do is shut up the inecssant chatter of our analytical thoughts, and we are at-one with God.

All this being said, I don't discount the various wisdom traditions and the findings of science. It takes all three: Intuition, traditional wisdom, and scientfic knowledge and the powers of logic.

In Kosmic Unity,

Arminius 

All Rightie Arminus! I'll go with you

I've got a wild crush on the mystic Father Peter. He gives free courses on the net "How to Know God".  Its time consuming so I can't sign up at the present; I'm too busy.

Christian Mysticism

 

 

 

Lil' bit of New Age in this one.I'm not sure about this? He's talking about the world becoming full of God's light .  What happens to those who choose  darkness?

 

 

FC: If the primary way in which you define God is as unknowable then you have a very restrictive view of God. Perhaps you might want to open up a bit. Unknowable in terms of a full understanding of the nature of what God is, but we have a trail of breadcrumbs three millenia long to tell us what "is pleasing" to God, ranging from Micah:  "do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with your God" to Jesus: "Love God and love your neighbour as yourself". I would think that forms a pretty good foundation on which other actions can be constructed.

I can agree with the three posts.  Well put.

Shalom

Mate

spiritbear

FC (Marnie)  is quoting a question asked by spockis53 on another thread. He is an atheist.

Everything is. Nothing is. The question itself is flawed.

spiritbear,

I love the quote from Micah, one of my favourites!

I now intend to quote you, "a trail of breadcrumbs three millenia long" - great image!

Ergo Ratio,

The question may or may not be flawed. We folks are all flawed. (Except to God!)  

IMHO, as we are all God, the sum forming God, what you would find pleasing would be pleasing to God.

IT

Russ

I would say God is within us but not confined to us. So there are limitations in what you say, RP. What is pleasing to the individual could very well be harmful to the whole, and that would not be pleasing to God. (Even if what is harmful to the whole will eventually come back to harm the individual, we often don't have that kind of foresight). 

spiritbear

I take your point.  I suppose I should have indicated that it is based on the assumption that we are concerned about the planet and all its creations, and not just ourselves. 

IT

Russ

When we try to be world-centric rather than anthropo-, ethno- or ego-centric, then we can't go too wrong.

God is World.

-St. Francis of Assisi

Re Arminius's "When we try to be world-centric rather than...,then we can't go too wrong.  God is World."

What about communism?  Communism tried to be "world-centric."  What about the current bogeyman of the day, the jihadist who thinks the whole world should be run by Taliban types?  According to them, they are trying very hard to be world-centric.  So maybe we need to add something to 'trying to be world-centric.'

Fakirs - lets not confuse the failed attempts at applying communism (chinese, russian, etc.) with communism in general. You can be communist and religious. Just like you can be capitalist and religious. The two aren't related at all.

This is a complete hijack - so I apologize in advance.

If anything, I see capitalism as completely incompatible with christian ideology. How can you love your neighbour with one hand, but use your other hand to pusue profit - in a system that by its very nature, requires inequality? 

Cosmic, Kosmic, synthesis, analysis ... still someone will put the infinite in a Black Box and call it the devil because the mortal cannot control ID as primal motivation to start the infinite span of the story.

How big is the Black Box ... a folded, bent and mutilated Black Hole called ... mind? Jes people really fear those ... even wee little ones like my shadow!

The Roman's, in a little private matter, call one version of God, Janus, a two-faced thing like Deism ... could that be an infinite two-sided thing like denarious currency that occupies the same space?

Imagine a creature that would be aware of two versions of time at the same time ... sort of like a mind! Could that be extended to have a vision of the future when it sees the present as a disaster of avarace by the authority's of the time that are blind ... sort of like a primal psyche that loves without a clue of what love can do to creation's other parts ... wee dot on the i's ... pure dumb love? Ever encounter that? I don't know what happened to me so I'll blame it on the shadow of Eve ... the pit I fell into? Out of that came creation a duality as well a bit of me vision by' and a bit of the shdow of: ... "I don't know what!"

I can't say for sure but having been focussed on the concept of infinite that many say is non existent ... I have this hidden spark of an idea that some call absolutely crazy ... because they don't want to got there and have any idea of what I am talking about.

That's ok from where I'm coming from but I'm going on a trip into the infinite ... I'd like to know a wee bit about it... many don't want to know a thing ... a guilt complex perhaps that they haven't faced in a bipolar method of coming and going at the same time ... like thought and love. One you see coming the other you don't!

God help us all understand the thin spaces ... are they spiritually well-lite like a bier ... effervescent and light? Is that pyre water? You don't understand the syntax ... get a lexicon, lepricon or one of those devilsish books that explains the unknown sea of words that we don't care to know. That sea is full of literary devices for making a devilish creator laugh in a sacred code of story ... you see not many get the brunt of most stories as a vent of frustration like the west wind of the Mediterranian Vandeval ... just before Mistral, the chilling North Wind of God called Dan in Numbers 2 ... a hot wind on the other side of the soul ... heated laughter in the pits of the catacombs of the mind?

Hi Goodskeptic:

Wasn't Jesus a communist, with a small "c"? It says somewhere in the NT that the early Christian communities had "all things in common."

Hi Marnie:

"God is World" was one of the famous sayings of St. Francis of Asissi. He probably meant to say that God is the world, and in the world, and by acting from the viewpoint of the totality, with love for everyone and everything, we can't go too wrong.

Is that what I forgot, universal love, love for everyone and everything? Well, then, I'll add it! Thanks for reminding me. 

As I just said, on a different thread, I think that the godly evolver is evolving in us a gene for universal love, so that we will not use our god-like powers of creativeness and destructiveness to destroy each other, our environment, and, ultimately, ourselves.

Since we are now smart enough to be God's co-evolutionaries, we should assist IT in this most godly process!

I spent some time on the other side of the iron curtain in the 70's. From my observation of the pervasive smell of diesel fumes and the open garbage pits I can confirm that communism never tried to be "world-centric". Never, ever.

Hi spockis:

Communism, with a capital C, is an ideology. Like all ideologies (inluding religious ideologies) it is largely self-serving.

When at-one-ment with the planetary and/or cosmic whole becomes an ideology, then it runs into the same danger. That's why I favour experiencing the planetary or cosmic whole—which, for most people, is a unitive experience—and then act directly from the unitive consciousness of that experience rather than abide by the dictates of an ideology. 

Nice - the problem is mystery suggests we cannot know all of the other - even my wife and children will be a bit of mystery to me - if we move on to wanting to be know then we 'reveal' ourselves to the other - and as is said there are a lot of bread crumbs in the narrative - and even in nature when we begin with mystery that is knowable.  And the narrative helps open our senses to the lumious reality within all things and more than all things.

By the way there is even a mystery to our self reflection... a mystery to ourselves.

thanks to all who are contributing on this thread. The posts have been top-quality.

Pantheism, it's so nice to  hear from you - I've missed you.

Okay, am I the only one who's just a teensy weensy bit curious to know what spockis53 was doing "behind the iron curtain in the 70's?"

Lots of growing up.

Spockies53 is a Red spy! That godless commie b8stard, arrest him!

Oh wait, srry, thought I was in the States there for a second.

Hi Marnie:

He studied ESP. That's why he outguesses all of us.

Mystery of mysteries, eh, Pan?

Or is it mysteries upon mysteries?

Enough mystery to make one shudder with awe. This was how religion began. To us moderns, science explains some of the mysteries, but there is still so much left to be explained, and some of it may forever remain unexplained, and is perhaps unexplainable, in analytical terms and concepts, anyway. All we can do is experience it, and apprehend it intuitively, and express it speculatively or metaphorically.

re spockis53's: "lots of growing up."

I'll bet.  Is that where you became an atheist?

Hi Marnie:

The Soviet Union was officially and strictly atheistic. If you wanted to get ahead, you had to be an atheist. "Spiritual intoxication" was certifiable insanity which landed you in a sanatorium or gulag.

Mystics like us perished in gulags.

Unless they were smart, and quickly converted to atheism.

But some rather died than doing that.

Nah; I became an atheist, earlier in life, during my confirmation class lessons!

The 70s trip was with family to visit family in Hungary. I was 15. And there was much carousing with slightly older cousins.  I remember the machine gun towers in downtown Budapest and the smell of deisel fumes.

Hi Arminius, what made the call between sanitarium or gulag?  I'm sure I would have recanted, though, if I'd been tortured.  Giving birth taught me that I can be broken under extreme pain.

Okay, so you did "lots of growing up" in a trip to visit family in Hungary when you were 15??  That must have been some trip.

Hi Marnie:

As you know, there is a fine if not indistinguishable line dividing mysticism from insanity. The truly insane wouldn't have been much good in a gulag, anyway, so they went to a sanatorium (which probably was worse) Those rapturous mystics who did not recant went to gulags, and possibly did a lot of good there.

If you read Victor Frankl, then you remember him saying that those with a solid, mystical or spiritual stance fared much better under the atrocious concentration camp conditions than others. They were able to not only comfort themselves but also others.

What I have learned in the matter of mysteries:

In religion without the spirit of thinking ... you don't go there, God is unknown and feared! Could a person worship and love fear?

Perhaps if you were Machiavellai, a bit bi-polar and out of balance with one or the other of caring or thought. It's a psychic thing. Don't do ID!

Hi spockis:

After the unsuccessful 1956 uprising, the Soviets cracked down especially hard on Hungary. In the 70ies, Hungary was still very much under the Soviet boot.

I remember the 1956 Hungarian uprising. I lived in Bavaria then, not far from the Czech border. There was much hope in the West that Hungary would succeed in throwing off the Soviet yoke. At the hight of the uprising, columns of American trucks and tanks rolled toward the Czech border to assist Hungary. Fortunately, the Third World War did not happen, and Hungary eventually threw off the Soviet yoke, anyway.

WaterBuoy

Must not look beyond the veil that hides the ID as there be Monsters lurking there.  Things you don't want to see, or let others see, or pehaps not make yourself so vulnerable.

 This is where God speaks to us, where the God radio is located.  Do you really, really want to go there?  I thought not.

IT

Russ

Hey all,

I like the question here.  It seems that this is something a lot of people think: that God is unknowable.  This is incorrect.  God is knowable.  Actually that's what He designed us for.  John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

If you seek Him you will find Him.  If you find Him, you can find out what pleases Him. 

So,  have you sought him, found him and found out what pleases him?

Can you clue us in?

The bible lets us know that we are blessed for believing what we cannot see. because this is faith, believing in the unseen. god gave us through his prophets clear description as to what he wants us to do. to love our neighbor, don't lie, don't steal, murder, or covet, don't commit adultery, and so on. the bible also talks about pervertedness as being a sin, don't get drunk. but you can have wine in moderation. don't rape, or be sexual with relatives or animals. don't gamble, learn to be givers. have a heart for the poor, never hate good doers, honor your mother and father. don't be lazy. in the book of proverbs. it says if a man don't work, he won't eat. Now that does not mean if he can't find work in this time of economic crisis. but a lazy person that does not want to work. it also says don't be a false witness. saying that someone did something that they did not do. these are sins. It also says. don't bow to statues. don't worship a man. or any pagan religion. no rituals of divination, charmers astrology. but what god spoke through his prophets is that It his will that all should prosper and be of good health. that he will give us peace and joy if we just trust him, and when we make a mistake. we should just repent quickly and move on. it states that when we repent we should repent in jesus name. and just move on and try to do better the next day. somethings  there will be habits that are little harder to stop. but everytime we fall we should just let the lord know that we will not condon our weakness. it is wrong it is sin. and we don't want it. continue to pray daily until these bad habits move. it may take a week or a year.but if you are serious about living your life according to god's will it will move. take time to praise god just for being god. he is worthy. He loves us. we as humans ushered darkness into god's perfect world. we can see that it was once perfect just listening to the ocean and the spring rain. He  still paints the sky blue. Even though we have polluted his air. he is merciful. but you must also keep in mind that he has appointed a time for judgement. if you have done the best you can to keep your faith in Jesus Christ and love, give, and honor the god that created you. you should not have any worry about judgement. The bible says some will walk into judgement with confidence. Meanwhile. guard your joy. expect blessings because god will continue to bless  us if we just walk in it and believe. keep god in you business. learn how to forgive. because the bible states that if we don't forgive that we cannot be forgiven . the greatest commandment is love. when you forgive someone, this does not always mean that you have to keep them actively in your life. they may still have some problems that can cause them to repeat an offense against you. use wisdom let them go. but pray about it asking god to give you the power to forgive them completely. Pray that they would be saved and delivered from the negative spirits that are driving them and just keep a distance if you don't think you can handle the situation. just give it to god and trust him. it may take time just let him handle it. the bible says all will not be saved. so you must understand and accept that at times.  there are many haters of god. there are some that call themselves gods. these things are all prophecies. that disobedient men and women, will try to exalt themselves over god. Just don't get caught up in crazy lying doctrines. we can't force others to love god. we can just be examples and given they opportunity. we can only speak to them about it.all we can do is try to convince them that there is a life of peace and love and joy and they can get in through prayer and faith in jesus christ. just try to remember the principle set for us in the bible and apply them to you experiences. Hopefully one day you would stand before god and say from the bottom of your heart. master I really tried. and there is a good chance that he will say well done. the bible says the race is not given to the swift but to the one that endures . Just continue to trust him solely and you will feel the blessing. this does not mean that you will not have trials. It only means that you will never face them alone. Just crack open the bible and read, even if its just 5 minutes a day. I betcha you will just fall in love with the word and the lord and the people around you. even in this world of brokeness. you will feel the strength to go on....

The bible lets us know that we are blessed for believing what we cannot see. because this is faith, believing in the unseen. god gave us through his prophets clear description as to what he wants us to do. to love our neighbor, don't lie, don't steal, murder, or covet, don't commit adultery, and so on. the bible also talks about pervertedness as being a sin, don't get drunk. but you can have wine in moderation. don't rape, or be sexual with relatives or animals. don't gamble, learn to be givers. have a heart for the poor, never hate good doers, honor your mother and father. don't be lazy. in the book of proverbs. it says if a man don't work, he won't eat. Now that does not mean if he can't find work in this time of economic crisis. but a lazy person that does not want to work. it also says don't be a false witness. saying that someone did something that they did not do. these are sins. It also says. don't bow to statues. don't worship a man. or any pagan religion. no rituals of divination, charmers astrology. but what god spoke through his prophets is that It his will that all should prosper and be of good health. that he will give us peace and joy if we just trust him, and when we make a mistake. we should just repent quickly and move on. it states that when we repent we should repent in jesus name. and just move on and try to do better the next day. somethings  there will be habits that are little harder to stop. but everytime we fall we should just let the lord know that we will not condon our weakness. it is wrong it is sin. and we don't want it. continue to pray daily until these bad habits move. it may take a week or a year.but if you are serious about living your life according to god's will it will move. take time to praise god just for being god. he is worthy. He loves us. we as humans ushered darkness into god's perfect world. we can see that it was once perfect just listening to the ocean and the spring rain. He  still paints the sky blue. Even though we have polluted his air. he is merciful. but you must also keep in mind that he has appointed a time for judgement. if you have done the best you can to keep your faith in Jesus Christ and love, give, and honor the god that created you. you should not have any worry about judgement. The bible says some will walk into judgement with confidence. Meanwhile. guard your joy. expect blessings because god will continue to bless  us if we just walk in it and believe. keep god in you business. learn how to forgive. because the bible states that if we don't forgive that we cannot be forgiven . the greatest commandment is love. when you forgive someone, this does not always mean that you have to keep them actively in your life. they may still have some problems that can cause them to repeat an offense against you. use wisdom let them go. but pray about it asking god to give you the power to forgive them completely. Pray that they would be saved and delivered from the negative spirits that are driving them and just keep a distance if you don't think you can handle the situation. just give it to god and trust him. it may take time just let him handle it. the bible says all will not be saved. so you must understand and accept that at times.  there are many haters of god. there are some that call themselves gods. these things are all prophecies. that disobedient men and women, will try to exalt themselves over god. Just don't get caught up in crazy lying doctrines. we can't force others to love god. we can just be examples and given they opportunity. we can only speak to them about it.all we can do is try to convince them that there is a life of peace and love and joy and they can get in through prayer and faith in jesus christ. just try to remember the principle set for us in the bible and apply them to you experiences. Hopefully one day you would stand before god and say from the bottom of your heart. master I really tried. and there is a good chance that he will say well done. the bible says the race is not given to the swift but to the one that endures . Just continue to trust him solely and you will feel the blessing. this does not mean that you will not have trials. It only means that you will never face them alone. Just crack open the bible and read, even if its just 5 minutes a day. I betcha you will just fall in love with the word and the lord and the people around you. even in this world of brokeness. you will feel the strength to go on....

Tonton,

Read more, write less and you might be considered more seriously here.

LL&P

Spock

A mortal can know the infinite!

My God, Einstein would be pleased!

My understanding was that perhaps if we looked inwards, into the pit, perhaps we could caress the fabric but not grasp it ... that would surely corrupt a mortal's vision ... all that Light! It'll blow the covenant even free of a prince ... and like an Irish form of the devil he won't know it until a half hour after e's goan!

WB,

As St Patrick's Day approaches, might you get even less prosaic?

LL&P

Spock

Wow tonton, that was loooong.  Short posts are easier to read.  No need to re-write the Bible here. 

To answer spockis53's question: Yes I've found God...or rather He found me.  It's not hard to find out what pleases Him.  Jesus sums up a lot of the teachings of the Bible in saying Love God, and your neighbour as yourself.  But He also said that "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5). 

All of us have wronged God in rejecting Him and wronged others in rejecting His ways.  The only way we can be made right and come into a relationship with God is if He forgives us.  Justice demands punishment for wrongdoing.  Jesus took that punishment on Himself in dying on the cross. So God is perfect in justice, but also perfect in love in providing for our forgiveness.  All one has to do is believe Him.  Faith is useless unless it is in something true and good.  If you believe God, admit your own wrongs and ask for His forgiveness.  Everyone who asks, recieves eternal life, which is knowing God.

Marnie

I would say that God doesn't need anything. "He" doesn't need to be worshipped, obeyed, feared, etc. God simply is.

But I do think that God is knowable, but only in small parts. If we understand that God doesn't need anything then we are part way there to knowing "Him".

WaterBuoy

I believe that, yes, a Mortal can "know" the infinite!  Can see, carress, but not necessarily understand or be able to explain.  Just feel and  sense.

Man does not look upon the Gorgon, and live!

IT

Russ

One can experience the unknowable God, and then act intutively and directly from that experience.

By "unknowable God" I do, of course, mean the Kosmic Synthesis that we experience and are. We experience IT all the time, but IT is not knowable analytically. But we can experience IT, and do experience IT, all the time—if only we knew!

But how does one get to know the unknowable?

By shutting off the incessant chatter of our analytical thoughts for a while!

Then we experience the ultimate and analytically unknowable reality which is God.

Acts 17:23 (New International Version)

²³For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.

Paul the apostle spoke this in Athens.

He went on to say that the resurrection of Jesus from the dead is the proof that God is knowable and a righteous judge over us.

We are dead in trespasses and Sin from birth. Christ lives in us who believe. He brings us alive spiritually. We receive God's Spirit. This is how we know him and become intimately aware of what he is like.

Love from Meekus

Isn't it funny how man keeps attempting to put infinite, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient beans in a cubid (box)? They say that they know hymn as a Song? It just caresses you in the passing while eddying all around you ... taking the edges of the square 'i' converting it to music of th's phere spirit ...

Did you know the father's of religion wanted to get rid of the Song of Solomon? Perhaps it was that they were afraid of the infinite isolated soul and yet afraid to turff it as they did ... cognizance (light) of the same, or is that S'm! Small voice in the night to a' muse Eli's shadow ... Elisha?

Authorities always belie what they don't appreciate ... a common soul ... what a daemon! That's hi story of the past ... corrupted by the powers above ... I'll accept a wee bit of the tomes and catacombs of the buried able ... the psychic expression ... thinking solipcism ... collective unconscious in a myth. Ides beyond rational ... an irrational th' ought with a wee spark. Initialized verse: "In the beginning was a formless void and then light!" Do we believe initializing nonsense; then why any of it?

The story is in the dirt that you can filter out of the vision of nonsense ... mudder earth! Will there be anything left, or will m'n the isolated demon ... burn the hole thing? As a dimple in space can you see it from the other side from the space of the mind ... depths of Piscine?

re Waterbuoy's: "Authorities always belie what they don't appreciate"

And not just "authorities" - we are all guilty of this at one time or another.

WaterBuoy

Will there be anything left, or will m'n the isolated demon ... burn the hole thing?

If we do, then who will shed a tear. No one, I think.  The multiverse will unfold as it will, and we may not be as much as a speck on a cosmic page.  Our passing unmarked

As a dimple in space can you see it from the other side from the space of the mind ... depths of Piscine?

A dimple.  Do you feel insignificant?  You should, you are.

IT

Russ